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Beatles forums => Songs => Topic started by: Xose on May 28, 2011, 12:00:21 PM

Title: Deconstructing 'I Need You'
Post by: Xose on May 28, 2011, 12:00:21 PM
According to George Martin handwritten notes (=quoted on Kehew-Ryan, op. cit., p. 389):

"...Take 5

George vocal, and plays acoustic Spanish
Paul on bass, John on offbeat drums
Ringo on back of Jumbo guitar

Finish take 9:25

Track 1: all first backing
Track 2: George voice

Track 1: first, then overdub
Track 3: voice George, with Paul occasionally
Track 4: George and Paul again, with Ringo on cowbell

Tuesday - Wipe Track 4 George and John and Paul
Wipe Track 2 John and Paul and Cowbell and Guitar
Finish at 4:35 Tuesday
On Track 2 (final overdub)
George played a 12-string Rickenbacker with foot-pedal..."


Very interesting, IMHO...

BTW: any chances of getting isolated tracks of Ringo's drumming on back of Jumbo guitar and John's snare drum??

Thanks in advance and best wishes!! ;)

Xosé
Title: Re: Deconstructing 'I Need You'
Post by: Xose on May 29, 2011, 08:29:54 AM
Why didn't Lennon play a guitar on this song??

Xosé
Title: Re: Deconstructing 'I Need You'
Post by: Xose on May 30, 2011, 01:29:47 PM
Gear used on this song:

- Ramírez "instrumentos para rondalla" Spanish guitar

- Höfner 500/1 '63 bass

- Ludwig 'Jazz Festival' snare drum

- Gibson J-160E acoustic guitar

- Rickenbacker 360/12 electric guitar

- Volume pedal (=probably DeArmond...)

- Cowbell

Any clues about isolated tracks??  ???

Best!! ;)

Xosé
Title: Re: Deconstructing 'I Need You'
Post by: Xose on August 20, 2011, 03:23:13 PM
BTW:
y
...Tuesday - Wipe Track 4 George and John and Paul
Wipe Track 2 John and Paul and Cowbell and Guitar...

What does "wipe" mean??

Thanks in advance and best wishes!! ;)

Xosé
Title: Re: Deconstructing 'I Need You'
Post by: RICKENBACKER325 on August 20, 2011, 05:16:30 PM
Wipe, I think means to erase.
Title: Re: Deconstructing 'I Need You'
Post by: Xose on August 20, 2011, 05:52:09 PM
Wipe, I think means to erase.

Thank you, RICKENBACKER325!! ;)

So, IIRC, on Tuesday the Track 4, previously recorded with G & P voices + Ringo on cowbell, was erased and recorded again with G & P & J -I guess singing-..., right?? This is strange, as there is not trace of John's voice on the released song...

Xosé
Title: Re: Deconstructing 'I Need You'
Post by: Xose on August 20, 2011, 06:03:15 PM
...This is strange, as there is not trace of John's voice on the released song...

Wait!! Yes, there is: one of the vocal harmonies on the bridge...

Xosé
Title: Re: Deconstructing 'I Need You'
Post by: Xose on August 20, 2011, 10:01:19 PM
......Wipe Track 2 John and Paul and Cowbell and Guitar...

This means that the original George voice, recorded on track 2 for the first time, was erased..., correct??

Thanks in advance and best wishes!! ;)

Xosé
Title: Re: Deconstructing 'I Need You'
Post by: nimrod on August 20, 2011, 11:34:06 PM
yes, it was probably only a guide vocal anyway

and yes, John is clearly on the bridge backing vocals
Title: Re: Deconstructing 'I Need You'
Post by: Hello Goodbye on August 21, 2011, 12:22:17 AM
This means that the original George voice, recorded on track 2 for the first time, was erased..., correct??



(http://images.wikia.com/bttf/images/0/06/Erasedfromexistance.jpg)


(http://ecdn0.hark.com/images/000/038/889/38889/original.0)


Erased....from existence!
Title: Re: Deconstructing 'I Need You'
Post by: nimrod on August 21, 2011, 12:41:57 AM
are you sure George plays his Rick Xose ?

I always though it was his strat on there and Yes It Is (both with expression pedal)
Title: Re: Deconstructing 'I Need You'
Post by: Hello Goodbye on August 21, 2011, 12:55:54 AM
It sounds like a 12-string to me, Kevin.
Title: Re: Deconstructing 'I Need You'
Post by: nimrod on August 21, 2011, 01:16:59 AM
it does Barry

according to wiki;

George Harrison – double-tracked vocal, lead guitar with Volume Pedal (1961 Fender Stratocaster)
Title: Re: Deconstructing 'I Need You'
Post by: Hello Goodbye on August 21, 2011, 01:26:39 AM
Xosé's source appears to be more credible, Kevin.  He's citing Recording The Beatles by Brian Kehew.
Title: Re: Deconstructing 'I Need You'
Post by: nimrod on August 21, 2011, 01:39:55 AM
yes, I dont think its a Fender now.
Title: Re: Deconstructing 'I Need You'
Post by: RICKENBACKER325 on August 21, 2011, 02:08:27 AM
A Fender Strat in the bridge position, double tracked, will sound very very close to the jangly Rickenbacker 12 string. I am not claiming this was the case. I am just saying it could have been the case.
Title: Re: Deconstructing 'I Need You'
Post by: nimrod on August 21, 2011, 02:22:36 AM
good point but a serious lack of available tracks  ;D
Title: Re: Deconstructing 'I Need You'
Post by: Hello Goodbye on August 21, 2011, 03:17:54 AM
...and the volume pedal should be considered.

Still, George Martin's notes on the recording of I Need You were specific..."George played a 12-string Rickenbacker with foot-pedal..."
Title: Re: Deconstructing 'I Need You'
Post by: nimrod on August 21, 2011, 04:30:02 AM
is that from the  Brian Kehew book Barry ?
Title: Re: Deconstructing 'I Need You'
Post by: Xose on August 21, 2011, 09:25:26 AM
are you sure George plays his Rick Xose ?

I always though it was his strat on there and Yes It Is (both with expression pedal)

Well: "...On Track 2 (final overdub)
George played a 12-string Rickenbacker with foot-pedal...", George Martin dixit...

yes, it was probably only a guide vocal anyway...

Aha... Thank you very much!! ;)

BTW: 5 vocal parts singing harmonies on the bridge??

Xosé
Title: Re: Deconstructing 'I Need You'
Post by: nimrod on August 21, 2011, 10:25:46 AM
from;http://www.beatlesebooks.com/i-need-you (http://www.beatlesebooks.com/i-need-you)


Written by:  George Harrison

Song Written: December, 1964 - February, 1965
Song Recorded: February 15 & 16, 1965
First US Release Date: August 13, 1965
First US Album Release: Capitol #SMAS-2386 “Help! Soundtrack”
US Single Release: n/a
Highest Chart Position: n/a
British Album Release: Parlophone #PCS 3071 “Help!”
Length: 2:28
Key: A major
Producer: George Martin
Engineers: Norman Smith, Ken Scott, Jerry Boys

 Instrumentation:

George Harrison – Lead Vocals, Rhythm Guitar (1962 Gibson J-160E), Lead Guitar (1961 Sonic Blue Fender Stratocaster)
John Lennon - Rhythm Guitar (1962 Gibson J-160E), Backing Vocals
Paul McCartney -  Bass Guitar (1963 Hofner 500/1), Harmony and Backing Vocals
Ringo Starr – Drums (Ludwig), cowbell
Title: Re: Deconstructing 'I Need You'
Post by: Xose on August 21, 2011, 10:51:35 AM
IMHO, that source contradices George Martin's own notes:

1) There is no Jumbo audible as a rhythm guitar on the released song. Only the nylon-strung Ramírez

2) There is no full Ludwig kit audible on the released song. Only the snare on the 2 & 4 beats

3) George Martin clearly states that the electric with the foot-pedal is the Ricky-12

Best!! ;)

Xosé
Title: Re: Deconstructing 'I Need You'
Post by: nimrod on August 21, 2011, 11:39:24 PM
theres a lot of misinformation out there Xosé
Title: Re: Deconstructing 'I Need You'
Post by: Hello Goodbye on August 22, 2011, 01:40:31 AM
2) There is no full Ludwig kit audible on the released song. Only the snare on the 2 & 4 beats

Indeed.  George Martin also notes that Ringo was playing percussion on the back of a jumbo guitar.

Title: Re: Deconstructing 'I Need You'
Post by: Xose on August 22, 2011, 09:26:33 AM
theres a lot of misinformation out there Xosé

I agree...

Indeed.  George Martin also notes that Ringo was playing percussion on the back of a jumbo guitar.

Yes, he does. I always believed that it was a luck for all of us that Martin wrote those notes down...

BTW: how many vocal harmonies parts do you hear on the released song??

Best!! ;)

Xosé
Title: Re: Deconstructing 'I Need You'
Post by: Xose on August 22, 2011, 10:18:41 AM
The acetate:

I Need You (acetate) - The Beatles (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkA_389lAYc#)

Take 5, stereo mix:

The Beatles - I Need You (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fe_id0uSEMk#)

I think Lennon's offbeats on snare drum are clearer audible here...

Only vocal:

The Beatles - I Need You (Only Vocals) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JN8uV96CnkQ#ws)

Xosé
Title: Re: Deconstructing 'I Need You'
Post by: Xose on August 22, 2011, 10:56:32 AM
Kehew-Ryan, op. cit., p. 389:

"...The next day [February the 16th], Track 4 was replaced with a new George Harrison lead vocal while John and Paul added some lovely harmonised backing vocals. The live scratch vocal on Track 2 was replaced with more vocals by John and Paul along with cowbell from Ringo and the song's distinctive guitar swells, played by George with his Rickanbacker 12-string and volume pedal..."

What does "... scratch vocal..." mean?? ???

Thanks in advance and best wishes!! ;)

Xosé
Title: Re: Deconstructing 'I Need You'
Post by: Xose on August 22, 2011, 11:29:34 AM
...What does "... scratch vocal..." mean??...

Wait!! Got it: '...Scratch vocal: A rough vocal track recorded live along with the initial rhythm instruments to help the basic tracks keep in the "groove" of the song. Final vocals can be re-recorded later during overdubs...'.

BTW: any chance of getting the mix with no vocals??

Best!! :wink:

Xosé
Title: Re: Deconstructing 'I Need You'
Post by: nimrod on August 22, 2011, 11:50:26 AM
yes a scratch vocal is a guide vocal
Title: Re: Deconstructing 'I Need You'
Post by: Xose on August 22, 2011, 11:58:17 AM
Thank you, nimrod!! ;)

I think there are a mix (=taken from the 2009 remasters??) of the backing track with no vocals somewhere out there. Unfortunately, I can't find it...  :(

Xosé
Title: Re: Deconstructing 'I Need You'
Post by: nimrod on August 22, 2011, 12:08:34 PM
or you can download software to remove vocals

http://www.acoustica.com/mixcraft/tutorial/how_to_remove_vocals_from_a_song.htm (http://www.acoustica.com/mixcraft/tutorial/how_to_remove_vocals_from_a_song.htm)

or I think winamp can do it
Title: Re: Deconstructing 'I Need You'
Post by: Xose on August 22, 2011, 12:19:27 PM
Aha... Thank you nimrod!! ;)

That software doesn't work on Mac computers..., does it??

Best!! ;)

Xosé
Title: Re: Deconstructing 'I Need You'
Post by: nimrod on August 22, 2011, 12:23:25 PM
try winamp....... there should be a mac version......maybe, do a search
Title: Re: Deconstructing 'I Need You'
Post by: Xose on August 24, 2011, 09:41:15 AM
The Ricky-12 was recorded twice:

1) On Track 2, together with Lennon & McCartney vocal harmonies + Ringo's cowbell, for the middle eight

2) Final overdub on Track 2 for the verses

That is the reason why the Ricky-12 sounds louder on the verses than on the middle-eight...

Xosé