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Beatles forums => The Beatles => Topic started by: Nada Surf on January 22, 2012, 05:47:40 AM

Title: What was John, Paul and George's greatest career break?
Post by: Nada Surf on January 22, 2012, 05:47:40 AM
In terms of them being able to become career musicians.
Title: Re: What was John, Paul and George's greatest career break?
Post by: tkitna on January 22, 2012, 05:59:04 AM
Pete Best  ha2ha

Sorry couldnt resist.

I'm going to go with being introduced to George Martin and probably way off.
Title: Re: What was John, Paul and George's greatest career break?
Post by: Nada Surf on January 22, 2012, 06:02:59 AM
LOL..funny...that thread really exploded...
I don't have an answer here..but I'm curious what people think....I think there are some very unheralded people who actually gave the Beatles their biggest break.
Title: Re: What was John, Paul and George's greatest career break?
Post by: tkitna on January 22, 2012, 06:59:22 AM
Eh, i'm changing my answer to Brian Epstein.
Title: Re: What was John, Paul and George's greatest career break?
Post by: nimrod on January 22, 2012, 09:41:19 AM
Eh, i'm changing my answer to Brian Epstein.

this ^
Title: Re: What was John, Paul and George's greatest career break?
Post by: Badgirl66 on January 22, 2012, 11:18:11 AM
His Deaths ;D
Title: Re: What was John, Paul and George's greatest career break?
Post by: BeatlesAtTheirBest on January 22, 2012, 12:54:57 PM

tkinta is correct, even if he was being sarcastic.

Pete Best was Lennon, McCartney & Harrison's greatest career break, but if you said Brian Epstein I couldn't argue with that.

Everyone agrees The Beatles needed a steady dependable drummer to make it.  Pete Best (and The Best Family) gave them that and then some.  Without Best their is no Germany trip.  No "My Bonnie" for kids to request at NEMS.  No Beatles and Pete's "Atom Beat" for Epstein to hear at the Cavern.

They desperately needed Pete Best to get to the point where crowds would be lining up to pay to see them.  Without Best, there was NO chance of someone like Brian Epstein caring enough to want to see the group.

Title: Re: What was John, Paul and George's greatest career break?
Post by: Ovi on January 22, 2012, 12:56:42 PM
 ha2ha I like where this is going.
Title: Re: What was John, Paul and George's greatest career break?
Post by: blmeanie on January 22, 2012, 01:09:53 PM
sure if the question was "what was the first and most important break" but the question was the "greatest break" which IMO was getting George Martin to agree to produce, there was nobody else lining up to produce them and think of the impact he had in their music throughout their careers together.  wow.

tkinta is correct, even if he was being sarcastic.

Pete Best was Lennon, McCartney & Harrison's greatest career break, but if you said Brian Epstein I couldn't argue with that.

Everyone agrees The Beatles needed a steady dependable drummer to make it.  Pete Best (and The Best Family) gave them that and then some.  Without Best their is no Germany trip.  No "My Bonnie" for kids to request at NEMS.  No Beatles and Pete's "Atom Beat" for Epstein to hear at the Cavern.

They desperately needed Pete Best to get to the point where crowds would be lining up to pay to see them.  Without Best, there was NO chance of someone like Brian Epstein caring enough to want to see the group.
Title: Re: What was John, Paul and George's greatest career break?
Post by: BeatlesAtTheirBest on January 22, 2012, 01:24:49 PM
sure if the question was "what was the first and most important break" but the question was the "greatest break" which IMO was getting George Martin to agree to produce, there was nobody else lining up to produce them and think of the impact he had in their music throughout their careers together.  wow.

Of course I think we can all agree that The Beatles were EVERYBODY ELSES biggest career break.

Title: Re: What was John, Paul and George's greatest career break?
Post by: stevejrogers on January 22, 2012, 03:18:44 PM
Great, now Too Many People is in my head...  ;D
Title: Re: What was John, Paul and George's greatest career break?
Post by: Nada Surf on January 22, 2012, 06:24:31 PM
This was a tough question to formulate and I probably did a poor job with it.
But there were several people who gave them breaks and there were several times they nearly called it quits.
Epstein and Martin were clearly huge breaks, but did they make John, Paul and George's first goal a possibility (to be able to play music for a living?)
There are others who come to mind in terms of giving them critical breaks, like that Cass and the Casanova guy, Bob Wooler, Mona Best, Allan Williams, and the owner of Hamburg's Top Ten Club.
The only one listed so far I don't agree with was Pete Best. While he hustled and did many things with his mom behind the scenes, I don't think they would have folded up shop had he rejected the Beatles' offer to go over to Hamburg in Aug. of 60.
Title: Re: What was John, Paul and George's greatest career break?
Post by: Hello Goodbye on January 22, 2012, 10:47:48 PM
Elias Howe


(http://i42.tinypic.com/20uu5ah.jpg)
Title: Re: What was John, Paul and George's greatest career break?
Post by: 7 of 13 on January 23, 2012, 12:06:24 AM
in the most general sense i think it was the addition of Macca's friend George Harrison to the fray. if you are talking record deals and business contracts then it would be either Sir George Martin, or of course Brian Epstein. i also go with the Hamburg scenario, it probably did them alot of good.
 ;yes
Title: Re: What was John, Paul and George's greatest career break?
Post by: BeatlesAtTheirBest on January 23, 2012, 12:19:55 AM

The only one listed so far I don't agree with was Pete Best. While he hustled and did many things with his mom behind the scenes, I don't think they would have folded up shop had he rejected the Beatles' offer to go over to Hamburg in Aug. of 60.

Before adding Pete Best, Lennon, McCartney & Harrison had been a band for 2 years, yet had very little success.  There have been many people (including members of The Beatles) who have made statements indicating that by the summer of 1960 they were close to breaking up.  Then they added Pete Best.  He became the dependable steady drummer they desperately needed. Over the next 2 years, Best would put in more time drumming live for The Beatles than any other drummer in their history.  He put in more time playing live for them in his 2 years than Starr did in his entire career!!!  By the time they sacked Best, they were the #1 band in 2 different cities in 2 different countries with record deals in 2 different countries.  He was the one attracting the most fans to their shows and The Beatles were being called "a phenomenon unlike anything we will see again in our lifetime".

They got a HUGE break when Pete Best decided to join.  You shouldn't be so quick to dismiss his contributions.

Title: Re: What was John, Paul and George's greatest career break?
Post by: tkitna on January 23, 2012, 01:02:07 AM
tkinta is correct, even if he was being sarcastic.

Yes I was being sarcastic. Very sarcastic.
Title: Re: What was John, Paul and George's greatest career break?
Post by: BeatlesAtTheirBest on January 23, 2012, 01:17:18 AM
Yes I was being sarcastic. Very sarcastic.


No.  You were atempting to be sarcastic, but instead got it right.


The winning answer is Pete Best.

Title: Re: What was John, Paul and George's greatest career break?
Post by: blmeanie on January 23, 2012, 01:46:51 AM
The winning answer is Pete Best.

Your winning answer  roll:)
Title: Re: What was John, Paul and George's greatest career break?
Post by: nimrod on January 23, 2012, 02:08:25 AM

No.  You were atempting to be sarcastic, but instead got it right.


The winning answer is Pete Best.

this is not some kind of a wind up is it mate ?

you have come on a Beatles forum promoting your film about Pete Best, telling us what a horrible person John Lennon was, and now saying the biggest most important person/thing for their world domination was Pete Best  (the guy who was sacked for not being good enough)

it all seems a bit bizzare to me  ???
Title: Re: What was John, Paul and George's greatest career break?
Post by: BeatlesAtTheirBest on January 23, 2012, 02:59:37 AM
this is not some kind of a wind up is it mate ?

you have come on a Beatles forum promoting your film about Pete Best, telling us what a horrible person John Lennon was, and now saying the biggest most important person/thing for their world domination was Pete Best  (the guy who was sacked for not being good enough)

it all seems a bit bizzare to me  ???

I am not here posting to tell you what a terrible person John Lennon was or wasn't.  I am just trying to tell the truth on the different issues being discussed.  I am also not telling you that Pete Best was the most important person/thing for their world domination was.  IMO that would be the partnership of Lennon & McCartney.  I am saying that Pete and even Stu made much bigger contributions than they are given credit for by fans of the group and The Beatles themselves.  Lennon, McCartney & Harrison were very fortunate to have had Pete as The Beatles first drummer.  All he did was put in more time playing live with the group than any drummer in their history - including Ringo Starr. 

Also, I am not posting to promote my film.  I made a film and am posting to promote an issue.

I like The Beatles - all six of them.  John, Paul, George, Stu, Pete & Ringo.

I seek to celebrate all of them and all of their significant contributions to the group!!!





Gimme some truth!!!



Title: Re: What was John, Paul and George's greatest career break?
Post by: nimrod on January 23, 2012, 03:19:35 AM
Quote
I am just trying to tell the truth on the different issues being discussed.

truth ?  how do you know the truth ? were you around the Beatles at that time ?

Quote
I am also not telling you that Pete Best was the most important person/thing for their world domination was.

so why did you reply to this thread with this answer ?


No.  You were atempting to be sarcastic, but instead got it right.


The winning answer is Pete Best.



and..

Quote
I am saying that Pete and even Stu made much bigger contributions than they are given credit for by fans of the group

who are these fans who give Pete no credit ? everybody has stated that he did contribute.......TBH you keep saying the same thing about Pete Best over and over, I think we have all got the message that your film portrays , but Im not sure anyone really cares that much anymore.
Yes Pete made a good contribution to the band in the early days, thats all that needs saying really.....thanks Pete, your name will go down in history.




Title: Re: What was John, Paul and George's greatest career break?
Post by: BeatlesAtTheirBest on January 23, 2012, 03:27:41 AM
truth ?  how do you know the truth ? were you around the Beatles at that time ?

so why did you reply to this thread with this answer ?

and..

who are these fans who give Pete no credit ? everybody has stated that he did contribute.......TBH you keep saying the same thing about Pete Best over and over, I think we have all got the message that your film portrays , but Im not sure anyone really cares that much anymore.
Yes Pete made a good contribution to the band in the early days, thats all that needs saying really.....thanks Pete, your name will go down in history.


There is a big difference between getting credit and getting proper credit. 


For example, if you do 20 historically important things and only get credit for 4.  You will go down in history.  You got credit.  But you didn't get proper credit.

Title: Re: What was John, Paul and George's greatest career break?
Post by: tkitna on January 23, 2012, 03:59:40 AM
There is a big difference between getting credit and getting proper credit. 

He's never going to get the credit that you think he deserves because he probably doesnt deserve it.

And what kind of contribution did Stu ever make to the band except dating a broad that took pictures of them? The guy was waisted space on the stage.
Title: Re: What was John, Paul and George's greatest career break?
Post by: nimrod on January 23, 2012, 04:19:21 AM
Ive got this feeling that this is turning into another Pete Best thread  4ac
Title: Re: What was John, Paul and George's greatest career break?
Post by: tkitna on January 23, 2012, 04:38:38 AM
Why cant we all just get along?

(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm26/joerogo/RoadFood/getalong-1.jpg)
Title: Re: What was John, Paul and George's greatest career break?
Post by: nimrod on January 23, 2012, 05:33:37 AM
 ha2ha
Title: Re: What was John, Paul and George's greatest career break?
Post by: BeatlesAtTheirBest on January 23, 2012, 05:50:32 AM
He's never going to get the credit that you think he deserves because he probably doesnt deserve it.

And what kind of contribution did Stu ever make to the band except dating a broad that took pictures of them? The guy was waisted space on the stage.

Actually Pete Best has gotten much more proper credit post 2000 than he ever got pre 2000.  As for Stu, he only thought of the name of the group.  Should I go on?

Is it possible tkitna that although you know a lot, you don't know everything? 

Quote
Why can't we all just get along?

It's nothing personal.  Things always look worse in print.  We get alone, just disagree from time to time.




Title: Re: What was John, Paul and George's greatest career break?
Post by: Nada Surf on January 23, 2012, 06:10:05 AM
Hey Best...
What do you mean nobody wanted to be the Beatles drummer?
Norman Chapman accepted them right away and they were perfectly happy with him and visa versa.
With Chapman, they would have gone right on to Hamburg.
Had Best turned them down, they would have found another within a week or two and then gone on to Hamburg.
You mean to tell me that Pete Best's signing was the top break of all of them? Even over Martin? Epstein? Even Mona Best and the breaks she gave them?
Title: Re: What was John, Paul and George's greatest career break?
Post by: tkitna on January 23, 2012, 06:33:45 AM
Actually Pete Best has gotten much more proper credit post 2000 than he ever got pre 2000.  As for Stu, he only thought of the name of the group.  Should I go on?

Oh God. He thought of the name so thats his great contribution? You would hope that a member in a band would make a musical contribution at some point?

With all this talk about Pete and Stu, I think our definitions of the word contribution varies a good bit.

Quote
Is it possible tkitna that although you know a lot, you don't know everything?

Thats always possible.  ha2ha
Title: Re: What was John, Paul and George's greatest career break?
Post by: Bobber on January 24, 2012, 09:25:16 AM
Before adding Pete Best, Lennon, McCartney & Harrison had been a band for 2 years, yet had very little success.  There have been many people (including members of The Beatles) who have made statements indicating that by the summer of 1960 they were close to breaking up.  Then they added Pete Best.  He became the dependable steady drummer they desperately needed. Over the next 2 years, Best would put in more time drumming live for The Beatles than any other drummer in their history.  He put in more time playing live for them in his 2 years than Starr did in his entire career!!!  By the time they sacked Best, they were the #1 band in 2 different cities in 2 different countries with record deals in 2 different countries.  He was the one attracting the most fans to their shows and The Beatles were being called "a phenomenon unlike anything we will see again in our lifetime".

They got a HUGE break when Pete Best decided to join.  You shouldn't be so quick to dismiss his contributions.



I think you have made your point more than clear now.
Title: Re: What was John, Paul and George's greatest career break?
Post by: Nada Surf on January 24, 2012, 05:51:44 PM
Hey Best...
You keep saying the Beatles were pretty bad prior to Pete's joining but they were learning and taking on a new type of music totally...
They also weren't too good when Best first started but with Lennon and McCartney in the band, things were going to head north quickly.
Title: Re: What was John, Paul and George's greatest career break?
Post by: BeatlesAtTheirBest on January 24, 2012, 06:27:29 PM
Hey Best...
You keep saying the Beatles were pretty bad prior to Pete's joining but they were learning and taking on a new type of music totally...
They also weren't too good when Best first started but with Lennon and McCartney in the band, things were going to head north quickly.


Yeah.  They all sucked as a band.  They all got better.  What's your point.  My point is that The Beatles as a live act were at their best when Best was their drummer - before "Brian put them in suits & they sold out" (Lennon's words).

Title: Re: What was John, Paul and George's greatest career break?
Post by: 7 of 13 on January 24, 2012, 08:59:48 PM
wrong. whatever do you mean by sucked as a band, that is a rather opaque thing to say. actually all three of them minus ringo on drums were very accomplished musicians. so was ringo, he was a top attraction early on in Hamburg.  it shows in their music. geeze.

 ;yes
Title: Re: What was John, Paul and George's greatest career break?
Post by: nimrod on January 24, 2012, 10:44:25 PM
Well anyway, Ive always thought that Brian was their biggest career break, without Brian they may never have got a recording contract, thats the biggest thing that could happen to band in the 60's, without it they may gone the way of thousands of other bands, got sick of playing the same places, started arguing, even have eventually split up.

Brian, for me, dragged them in the right direction.
Title: Re: What was John, Paul and George's greatest career break?
Post by: Nada Surf on January 25, 2012, 12:20:30 AM
I'm going to post some nominees for top break, but it would be hard to top Epstein...They actually were already worried about playing the same circuits even with Epstein and certainly before him.
But as my question asks, which break was the most important for their first goal which was to play music for a living. With or without Epstein, they may have already been set as career musicians.
Title: Re: What was John, Paul and George's greatest career break?
Post by: Hello Goodbye on January 25, 2012, 03:35:23 AM
I'm going to post some nominees for top break, but it would be hard to top Epstein...They actually were already worried about playing the same circuits even with Epstein and certainly before him.
But as my question asks, which break was the most important for their first goal which was to play music for a living. With or without Epstein, they may have already been set as career musicians.

Give me your list of nominees and I'll add a poll to this thread.
Title: Re: What was John, Paul and George's greatest career break?
Post by: 7 of 13 on January 25, 2012, 03:40:08 AM
Well anyway, Ive always thought that Brian was their biggest career break, without Brian they may never have got a recording contract, thats the biggest thing that could happen to band in the 60's, without it they may gone the way of thousands of other bands, got sick of playing the same places, started arguing, even have eventually split up.

Brian, for me, dragged them in the right direction.
that's more or less my thinking, after all is said and done.
Title: Re: What was John, Paul and George's greatest career break?
Post by: 7 of 13 on January 25, 2012, 03:43:51 AM
I'm going to post some nominees for top break, but it would be hard to top Epstein...They actually were already worried about playing the same circuits even with Epstein and certainly before him.
But as my question asks, which break was the most important for their first goal which was to play music for a living. With or without Epstein, they may have already been set as career musicians.
obviously that is true for Sir Paul and Ringo Starr, probably also true for Harrison. But John Lennon is a wildcard here, i can't imagine him ever stopping playing music or being a musician.
 ;yes
Title: Re: What was John, Paul and George's greatest career break?
Post by: Nada Surf on January 25, 2012, 06:47:34 AM
@ Hello Goodbye...thanks..I'll try to list some as I'm digging up a few through books right now but I'm just a bit busy to get a list until perhaps this weekend...

@ Best of the Beatles...From what I could tell, Pete Best actually DID give the Beatles one of their top breaks when he bombarded the German consulate with success in order to allow the Beatles back into Hamburg a second time.

I'm hoping some (or all) of you friend me on Facebook (Jim Richards, jfkin60@gmail.com)...It will also bring people to this board.