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[alexis]

... that makes it so hard to pick it out?

Beatles, Beach Boys, Bee Gees, Eagles, Andrews Sisters, ... if there's a three part harmony, I can pick out the high and low just like that, but so often it seems that the middle one is "invisible" to me, no matter how hard I try to pick it out. So often the only way I hear it on any one of a number of records is when I go to the piano and pick out what the middle harmony WOULD be to fit the song, then I go back and listen to the record and say, "Oh, THERE it is!". There have been times that I didn't even know George was singing a 3rd harmony until I saw a youtube clip of a performance. Those usually had a different balance to the microphones than the records did, so I would hear George on youtube, go back to the record and listen to the song again, and say (you guessed it) "Oh, THERE it is!".

Is there something inherently different about the typical middle harmony, musically speaking, that would make it hard to hear? I know it's often the 3rd position of a chord, is there some psychoacoustic explanation related to that? Or is it just that my brain is wired weird?  I might blame it on George Martin's mixing George Harrison's harmony vocals low all the time, but that wouldn't explain why I have a hard time hearing it in other vocal groups (or other instruments, like horns or violins, for that matter). Maybe it's because the first music I really listened hard to was the Beatles, and that part of my brain stayed vestigial (** shakes fist at sky and says "Why, George Martin, why?**).

Thanks for any help fellow musicians, vocalists, or Beatles fans in general!

[An Apple Beatle]

Well....just a thought......3 part harmonies can wander in many directions and through The Beatles I have discovered many of them. lol
I cannay really talk about 3rd and fifths and the relative diatonic scales too much as I work mostly from ear and rely very little on written music which I can read, albeit very slowly.

Maybe you can pick out the octaves the easiest? Where I first performed duo Beatle tunes, we would look for the 2 main lines which were often Macca & Lennon. Even though the first 2 were classic lines, the third always seems to be more subtle. I believe there are often even 4 part harmonies buried even lower in the mix in certain tunes. You Never Give Me Your Money is a nice example to study. Two of Us has a nice 3rd harmony hidden in there. IF I Needed Someone and I Feel Fine are other nice examples to look at in this instance.
They tear up the rule book for me when you look at tunes like If I Fell, which to me, is one of the best harmony lines going of all time. (HER, cos i could'nt stand the pain)
They also get up to the same meandering mischief on You Really Got A Hold On Me and Getting Better.

Maybe it is because 2 lines are distinguishable but the third line makes it more of a chord with overtones & frequencies melting all perfectly together? I think they just tracked them up & used their ears and taste chips to make sure there was no clash of chord with the orchestral guidance of Mr Martin. They never seemed to do a conventional harmony....there was always some melodic and harmonic trickery going on that any Barber shop/Doo Wop would be proud of.

Another therory about the mix is that George Martin wanting to represent the band as accurately as possible to their live sound, would have boosted the first 2 lines with a more nervous Harrison boosting the magic with a quieter 3rd line?

All theory and at your disposal. lol

[fendertele]

i struggle with it more with the beatles than with any other band because i find johns and georges voices quite similiar when there harmonising

[An Apple Beatle]

Thats a very good point too....Took me a while to distinguish their voices apart on harmonies.

[harihead]

I think they just tracked them up & used their ears and taste chips to make sure there was no clash of chord with the orchestral guidance of Mr Martin. They never seemed to do a conventional harmony....there was always some melodic and harmonic trickery going on that any Barber shop/Doo Wop would be proud of.

Great subject, Alexis. I really loved your response, AB. One of the things I always adored about the Beatles' music was their harmonies; they sounded absolutely unique. It's delightful to find an analysis indicating that they, in fact, were. Perhaps his success at the "by ear" method made Paul reluctant to learn music properly. He always resisted it. To his mind, it might have been a case of, "Why mess with success!"

[fendertele]

Great subject, Alexis. I really loved your response, AB. One of the things I always adored about the Beatles' music was their harmonies; they sounded absolutely unique. It's delightful to find an analysis indicating that they, in fact, were. Perhaps his success at the "by ear" method made Paul reluctant to learn music properly. He always resisted it. To his mind, it might have been a case of, "Why mess with success!"

i always toyed with idea after years of playing the guitar of gettign guitar lessons to become clued up with scales and better understanding of things, but i decided against it because it seems the self taught musicians have more personality to there music and also develop there own styles.

Where as all these taught guitarists all start to sound the same yes they may technically be awesoem but they all start sounding like the teacher who taught them.

im glad i resisted

[alexis]

Great subject, Alexis. I really loved your response, AB. One of the things I always adored about the Beatles' music was their harmonies; they sounded absolutely unique. It's delightful to find an analysis indicating that they, in fact, were. Perhaps his success at the "by ear" method made Paul reluctant to learn music properly. He always resisted it. To his mind, it might have been a case of, "Why mess with success!"

Thanks for all the great answers folks! I do think the fact that George and John sound so similar when they use their "harmony voice" adds to potential confusion. There's a song "Don't You Ever Change" on the BBC album that it took me the longest time to realize that it was George harmonizing with Paul (I thought it was John doing the lower bit). Funny how their "harmony voices" are so similar, but their "Look at me, I'm singing lead now" voices are so different!

Hari, your post above reminded me of something I recently read about Jerry Lee Lewis (my latest obsession; in the last 2 weeks I've bought a 3-CD set, also his latest CD release (a very good "Duets"-type album, called "Last Man Standing", he even records with Ringo, and (on "I Saw Her Standing There" of all things!) also with Little Richard! But I digress, again ...). Apparently when litlle Jerry Lee was growing up in backwoods Louisiana his mama forbade him to listen to any records, because she didn't want him to sound like anybody else!

She apparently had a good ear for talent, and the rock and roll world owes her a debt of gratitude for that!