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Beatles forums => Books, Magazines, Articles => Topic started by: Living One on February 23, 2009, 10:35:06 PM

Title: The Present
Post by: Living One on February 23, 2009, 10:35:06 PM
I've been a Beatles fan for as long as I can remember. There is something about their music that is magical and puts it above and beyond all other music. I always knew they were very special.

I came across something a short while back that completely changed the way I listen to the Beatles' music. I'd like to show you a section from a book that I found which provides some interesting insight about The Beatles.

http://www.thetruthcontest.com
Click on "The Present"
Open the document in Word, and click "Read Only."
The section about The Beatles starts on page 206.

I'd really like to hear your opinions about this new interpretation of The Beatles music. I'm here to share with you as well as learn from you.

This section made me listen to The Beatles in a completely different way.

What do you think?

"And then while I'm away,
I'll write home every day,
And I'll send all my loving to you."
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: Bobber on February 24, 2009, 08:25:02 AM
Oh no, not again. I hate interpretations, and these certainly. Why can't people just listen to the music and enjoy it, like it was meant to be?
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: BlueMeanie on February 24, 2009, 09:49:27 AM
Some people don't know how to get a life do they? Are you 'Carman' in disguise?
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: Living One on February 24, 2009, 02:43:53 PM
Quote
Oh no, not again. I hate interpretations, and these certainly. Why can't people just listen to the music and enjoy it, like it was meant to be?

I normally hate interpretations too, especially when people try to sell them.  However, this one is free, and it completely changed the way I listen to their music, for the better.  You can listen and enjoy their music while reading this, that's what I did.  =)

Quote
Are you 'Carman' in disguise?

No, but I have heard about that person.  Anyone who wants money for 'hidden messages' is clearly not a sensible person.  This is just something I have found that is free, and I want to share it with you.  I hope you like it!

Title: Re: The Present
Post by: Bobber on February 24, 2009, 02:49:56 PM
Quote from: 1915
I hope you like it!

I don't. But believe whatever you want.
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: Living One on February 24, 2009, 03:13:44 PM
Quote
I don't. But believe whatever you want.

I see.  Did you read it?  What didn't you like about it?  I'm here to learn from you as well as share with you.
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: Bobber on February 24, 2009, 03:34:24 PM
Quote from: 1915

I see.  Did you read it?  What didn't you like about it?  I'm here to learn from you as well as share with you.

Don't. I'm a stubborn a**hole and might reconsider my decision to let you in after all.
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: Living One on February 24, 2009, 06:25:20 PM
Quote from: 63

Don't. I'm a stubborn a**hole and might reconsider my decision to let you in after all.

Understood, my friend.  Hopefully your decision to let me in after all will pay off for the other members of this forum.

Title: Re: The Present
Post by: Bobber on February 24, 2009, 06:43:01 PM
I doubt it. Most of us are not particularly fans of stuff like this.
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: pc31 on February 25, 2009, 12:12:08 AM
i couldn't read it....was it of a religious nature????god wouldn't let me see it...has he forsaken me for another?????????oh agony..........oh the humanity...
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: Living One on February 25, 2009, 02:24:53 AM
Quote
i couldn't read it....was it of a religious nature????god wouldn't let me see it...has he forsaken me for another?????????oh agony..........oh the humanity...

Are you trying to say that you couldn't open the file?
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: BlueMeanie on February 25, 2009, 07:59:27 AM
Quote from: 284
i couldn't read it....was it of a religious nature????god wouldn't let me see it...has he forsaken me for another?????????oh agony..........oh the humanity...

It's a conspiracy!
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: Bobber on February 25, 2009, 08:06:35 AM
Quote from: 1915

Are you trying to say that you couldn't open the file?

No, he's trying to say that the light hurt his eyes. He's the devil himself you know.
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: Living One on February 25, 2009, 03:05:01 PM
 :-/

This is not a religious section.  It is just a new way to look at The Beatles and their music.  Many people realize that they were a very special group that changed the face of the planet, and this book tells you why.  It's not forceful, or religious, it's just something to get the gears turning in your head.  It made me enjoy The Beatles even more than before I read it.
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: Swine on February 25, 2009, 03:06:56 PM
wtf? another jehovah witness? i read the thing and it has not made me a better man than i already am. but then im not into this kind of stuff at all. religion is for the poor man.
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: BlueMeanie on February 25, 2009, 03:14:22 PM
I was going to ask for Tom Cruise's autograph.
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: Bobber on February 25, 2009, 03:17:26 PM
Swine, would you please replace your avatar for something less confronting? Thanks.
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: pc31 on February 27, 2009, 04:13:41 PM
M98Lgnne9o0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M98Lgnne9o0)
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: alexis on March 03, 2009, 04:00:07 AM
Quote from: 63
Swine, would you please replace your avatar for something less confronting? Thanks.

Wrong observation, Bobber. His post itself is much more confrontational than his avatar, IMO. It's a personal insult to those who disagree with him. Is that appropriate on this forum?
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: Bobber on March 03, 2009, 08:23:44 AM
Quote from: 568

Wrong observation, Bobber. His post itself is much more confrontational than his avatar, IMO. It's a personal insult to those who disagree with him. Is that appropriate on this forum?

You mean the Jehovah witness thing? In fact, he was asking a question. I don't see a personal insult in that. I've seen worse in the last few days.
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: alexis on March 03, 2009, 12:40:15 PM
Quote from: 1789
wtf? another jehovah witness? i read the thing and it has not made me a better man than i already am. but then im not into this kind of stuff at all. religion is for the poor man.

No, Bobber, this thing. If you think this is not so bad, I'd ask you to consider what you would think if it referred to sexual orientation or race - would it be acceptable on this forum then?

Title: Re: The Present
Post by: BlueMeanie on March 03, 2009, 12:53:35 PM
Quote from: 568

No, Bobber, this thing. If you think this is not so bad, I'd ask you to consider what you would think if it referred to sexual orientation or race - would it be acceptable on this forum then?


Swine is taking the p*ss. I'm sorry, but if you're going to join a Beatles discussion forum, and the first thing you post is some old crap like this, then you shouldn't expect to be taken seriously. If you join in with the forum, get to know people, then post something like this you'll have better luck.
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: Bobber on March 03, 2009, 01:06:34 PM
Quote from: 568

No, Bobber, this thing. If you think this is not so bad, I'd ask you to consider what you would think if it referred to sexual orientation or race - would it be acceptable on this forum then?


The point is that it doesn't refer to that. Actually, I think Swine's got a point here. It is usually poor people that fill the churches, not the rich ones. But then there's a lot more poor people of course. Poor people pray harder for better times than the rich do in my humble opinion.
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: alexis on March 03, 2009, 03:31:15 PM
Quote from: 483

Swine is taking the p*ss. I'm sorry, but if you're going to join a Beatles discussion forum, and the first thing you post is some old crap like this, then you shouldn't expect to be taken seriously. If you join in with the forum, get to know people, then post something like this you'll have better luck.



Quote from: 63

The point is that it doesn't refer to that. Actually, I think Swine's got a point here. It is usually poor people that fill the churches, not the rich ones. But then there's a lot more poor people of course. Poor people pray harder for better times than the rich do in my humble opinion.

Even if the intent was to "take the p*ss out of" the new poster, the words could easily be taken as belittling by a group of people.  What if it were instead said "Being gay is for poor losers who don't fit in to society", or "Black people cause a lot of crime". Would these statements be OK to post if the purpose was just to tweak a new poster?

I'm just asking for sensitivity, especially from the moderators, towards groups that may have value systems. Isn't that the true meaning of "Love"?

**Climbs off soapbox, at least somewhat embarassed, to work on a third harmony to "Norwegian Wood"**


Title: Re: The Present
Post by: BlueMeanie on March 03, 2009, 03:48:13 PM
^ Fair point, we all know what Swine is like though, and it's all tongue in cheek. I'll go back to my original assertion that you should get to know the folks on any forum before you start posting stuff like this. Then you'll be less surprised by the responses you get from certain people, and you'll understand them better. We would all expect Swine to pop up and say something contraversial like that.
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: Swine on March 03, 2009, 03:50:25 PM
i was talking to myself
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: Living One on March 03, 2009, 04:40:39 PM
Well it seems we have drifted off topic a bit.  I'll try to get some conversation started with quotes from "The Present."

Page 209:

"They were like the God
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: BlueMeanie on March 03, 2009, 05:19:47 PM
Quote from: 1915
The sign: There is a sign in their songs to let us know the songs are not just for a girl. The sign is the word "friend" which is not a way that you would address a girl you are singing a love song too."


Blimey what a revelation!
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: Kevin on March 03, 2009, 05:27:04 PM
I had a browse. Dear me - a lot of something about nothing. I think we get a lot of this around here (and there and everywhere) : if you really want to find or see something you will. All harmless really - I'll file it away with UFO's and Creationists.
I have to commend Jethro Tull on the way s/he conducts themselves.
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: An Apple Beatle on March 03, 2009, 06:21:09 PM
Peace & Love  ;D
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: Sondra on March 04, 2009, 01:45:47 AM
Quote from: 568





Even if the intent was to "take the p*ss out of" the new poster, the words could easily be taken as belittling by a group of people.  What if it were instead said "Being gay is for poor losers who don't fit in to society", or "Black people cause a lot of crime". Would these statements be OK to post if the purpose was just to tweak a new poster?

I'm just asking for sensitivity, especially from the moderators, towards groups that may have value systems. Isn't that the true meaning of "Love"?

**Climbs off soapbox, at least somewhat embarassed, to work on a third harmony to "Norwegian Wood"**



I don't think those analogies work. Religion is something that is chosen. Being gay or black is not. And why is saying religion is for the poor man an insult? What are we presuming about poor people then? Anyway, it's a very debatable statement isn't it?
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: alexis on March 04, 2009, 03:08:46 AM
Quote from: 216

I don't think those analogies work. Religion is something that is chosen. Being gay or black is not. And why is saying religion is for the poor man an insult? What are we presuming about poor people then? Anyway, it's a very debatable statement isn't it?

OK, you're right, Sandra, the analogies don't work well, for the reason you mentioned. How about "Veganism is for hypocrites, at least for people who use medicine or vaccinate their kids, since it is almost all derived from animal testng". A debatable statement yes, but I would call it just what I called Swine's statement, provocative and it is certainly potentially insulting.

Here's a quote from Obama (well, a paraphrase really.'cos I can't remember it word for word): "The people in western Pennsylvania are poor, and have been for generations, and so they cling to their guns and their religion ...".

Just because a statement is debatable, doesn't mean it is not insulting and condescending. Obama realized that as soon as he said it, it was universally interpreted as such, and he apologized for it. If the economy hadn't tanked as much as it did, it might have cost him the state of Pennsylvania (along with Murtha's comments)!




Title: Re: The Present
Post by: Sondra on March 04, 2009, 03:35:09 AM
Yeah, he apologized cuz he got caught saying it. But again, pointing out the arrogance of such a statement and challenging the person who made it to defend it seems like a better way of dealing with it than just being offended and forcing a fake apology. What does that solve other than encouraging people to continue to complain about any little thing and force people to closet their actual feelings. People get offended about EVERYTHING anymore. It's just one person's opinion. Let them prove it then if they feel that way. Let him speak his mind. I WANT to know what he really thinks! Not just what he knows we want him to think. Give me reality even if it isn't pretty.

In any case, I find it sad that all poor people are being looked down upon as ignorant in these cases, and would like someone to further explain their rationale in coming to that conclusion. And then if you feel these poor, misguided people are so bad off, what are you all doing about it besides looking down on them? Those who are so fortunate to be so enlightened should share their vast wisdom with these poor, dumb folk no? Anyway, Obama should certainly know better than to stereotype an ENTIRE group of people! Arrogance is what it comes down to. But he's a very religious person himself, so now what? He isn't taking issue with any religion, he was taking issue with those people's religion. The white trash. That's the real issue. Yeah, surprising he survived that faux pa.

Anyway, plenty of ignorant middle and upper class too. Personally, I find the state of this country's intelligence pretty depressing lately. People are more interested in TMZ, gossip rags, and reality shows than in actually contributing to society and doing their part to improve this place. Who can be bothered when they've got their DVR filled up with dumb shows to watch. God, they'd be contributing just demanding entertainment that isn't so base and mean spirited. I mean, what are we becoming the Roman Empire? Next up, throwing celebrities to the lions! Or are they already doing that? How many people are waiting for one of the addicts on Celebrity Rehab to kick off? Sad to say, but people would be riveted.  I find it disgusting. But let's rag on the poor and religious. Cuz it's easy.

Sorry, feeling a bit bummed tonight. Know I'm going overboard. :B
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: alexis on March 04, 2009, 03:44:19 AM
Quote from: 216
Yeah, he apologized cuz he got caught saying it. But again, pointing out the arrogance of such a statement and challenging the person who made it to defend it seems like a better way of dealing with it than just being offended and forcing a fake apology. What does that solve other than encouraging people to continue to complain about any little thing and force people to closet their actual feelings. People get offended about EVERYTHING anymore. It's just one person's opinion. Let them prove it then if they feel that way. Let him speak his mind. I WANT to know what he really thinks! Not just what he knows we want him to think. Give me reality even if it isn't pretty.

In any case, I find it sad that all poor people are being looked down upon as ignorant in these cases, and would like someone to further explain their rationale in coming to that conclusion. And then if you feel these poor, misguided people are so bad off, what are you all doing about it besides looking down on them? Those who are so fortunate to be so enlightened should share their vast wisdom with these poor, dumb folk no? Anyway, Obama should certainly know better than to stereotype an ENTIRE group of people! Arrogance is what it comes down to. But he's a very religious person himself, so now what? He isn't taking issue with any religion, he was taking issue with those people's religion. The white trash. That's the real issue. Yeah, surprising he survived that faux pa.

Anyway, plenty of ignorant middle and upper class too. Personally, I find the state of this country's intelligence pretty depressing lately. People are more interested in TMZ, gossip rags, and reality shows than in actually contributing to society and doing their part to improve this place. Who can be bothered when they've got their DVR filled up with dumb shows to watch. God, they'd be contributing just demanding entertainment that isn't so base and mean spirited. I mean, what are we becoming the Roman Empire? Next up, throwing celebrities to the lions! Or are they already doing that? How many people are waiting for one of the addicts on Celebrity Rehab to kick off? Sad to say, but people would be riveted.  I find it disgusting. But let's rag on the poor and religious. Cuz it's easy.

Sorry, feeling a bit bummed tonight. Know I'm going overboard. :B

Sandra, don't feel bummed tonight, I think you are great, just because you are right that the world is going to hedoubletoothpick in a handbasket doesn't mean we can't also enjoy the beatiful things in life - the purple flowered tree thingies blooming (if you're still in NYC maybe it's the daffodils, but not for a few weeks  ;) ), a tiny infant cooing, seeing someone do something nice for someone else out of pure altruism, and those heaven-sent harmonies by two guys named John and Paul.

Hang in there, remember, New Yorkers are hard to keep down!!   :) :)
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: BlueMeanie on March 04, 2009, 10:24:53 AM
Quote from: 185
I have to commend Jethro Tull on the way s/he conducts themselves.

The way he/she conducted herself was to post this stuff on about 5 different forums here, and get him/herself banned. Having begged to be allowed back he/she proceeds to post the same crap. Can you understand the reaction now?
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: pc31 on March 04, 2009, 11:38:32 AM
call out the firing squad...religion is a topic we can't discuss with success here...
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: Ged on March 04, 2009, 02:36:26 PM
I think you can take the meanings too literally. I was recently arrested while doing it in the road. The policeman concerned was having none of it that I was a fanatical beatlepathic.  
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: An Apple Beatle on March 04, 2009, 03:44:30 PM
Quote from: 284
call out the firing squad...religion is a topic we can't discuss with sucess here...

Stir it up...Little darling.
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: Swine on March 04, 2009, 03:57:59 PM
Quote from: 284
call out the firing squad...religion is a topic we can't discuss with sucess here...

i didnt start the fire
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: An Apple Beatle on March 04, 2009, 04:03:06 PM
Quote from: 1789

i didnt start the fire

It was always burning since the world's been turning eh?
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: Swine on March 04, 2009, 04:05:38 PM
i didnt light it but i tried to fight it

btw brooklyns got a winning team
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: BlueMeanie on March 04, 2009, 04:59:07 PM
Quote from: 284
call out the firing squad...religion is a topic we can't discuss with sucess here...

But you like to stir it, don't you?
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: Kevin on March 04, 2009, 06:13:50 PM
Quote from: 483

The way he/she conducted herself was to post this stuff on about 5 different forums here, and get him/herself banned. Having begged to be allowed back he/she proceeds to post the same crap. Can you understand the reaction now?

Sure can. I was taken by his/her gentmanly demenour.
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: BlueMeanie on March 04, 2009, 06:32:40 PM
Quote from: 185

Sure can. I was taken by his/her gentmanly demenour.

Don't be deceived.

I'll probably get into trouble from someone for saying that.
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: Living One on March 04, 2009, 06:38:11 PM
Quote from: 483
The way he/she conducted herself was to post this stuff on about 5 different forums here, and get him/herself banned. Having begged to be allowed back he/she proceeds to post the same crap. Can you understand the reaction now?

I too understand your reaction, and I completely understand why I got banned in the first place.  I thank you for letting me back in to discuss this wonderful group and their music.

Understand I wouldn't be posing this 'crap' if I didn't think there was something to it; I'm not here to waste your time, or mine (if wasting time is even possible).  I personally enjoy interpreting their music as well as enjoying it; what they did was magical.  I absolutely agree that those who are charging money for 'hidden messages' need a better hobby, but this is completely free and it really changed the way I listened to The Beatles' music.  You've probably heard this before, but I really feel that this is the correct 'interpretation' of their music, as well as the most enjoyable way to listen to it.  They are speaking directly to you, spirit to spirit.  It is divine love.  The Beatles will always be new, as well as true, just like life/love in the present moment.

Again, I do understand your reaction, but I am not going to break the rules again.  I would appreciate kindness and love from your part as well.  Remember, the love you take is equal to the love you make.
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: Jane on March 04, 2009, 09:52:48 PM
Well, Jethro Tull is trying to make the Beatles sound religious. And that maybe only the first step to something else, which is no good. In this I agree with the swine. But religion being for the poor man is offending as if, you have nothing poor guys but religion, no life, no emotions, no thoughts, nothing to be happy about, nothing to enjoy and to expect from this life. Maybe go and die right now? This is a very careless unresponsible statement. In this I agree with Alexis.
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: Living One on March 05, 2009, 12:17:57 AM
Quote from: 1393
Well, Jethro Tull is trying to make the Beatles sound religious. And that maybe only the first step to something else, which is no good. In this I agree with the swine.

I am not trying to make The Beatles sound 'religious,' I'm trying to say that they were prophets.  I'm trying to say that they will always be true, as they say in song:  "and while I'm away, I'll write home every day, and send all my loving to you."  They may be gone physically, but the love in their music is always for us to share in the present.  They sugarcoated the truth with beautiful music, and now we can understand what they were trying to tell us.  It makes their music even better, and "The Present" explains this in detail.   :)

Title: Re: The Present
Post by: pc31 on March 05, 2009, 02:46:11 AM
Quote from: 15

Stir it up...Little darling.
nlk9Sj4Ns2k (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlk9Sj4Ns2k)
ya mon yew nose it!!!hoot nannie!!!!
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: Kevin on March 05, 2009, 09:00:20 AM
I'm having trouble with this. I couldn't disagree more with JT's view of the Beatles if I tried (prophet's my ar*e) and I'm as godless as they come, but am I right in supposing this person is being banned for expressing opinions not in favour with the majority? That don't sit right with me.
If being absurd is a basis for banning, can I suggest banning:
- Sandra for liking Van Halen
- Jane for seeing only the good in Lennon
- Bobber for his ridiculously youthful good looks
- me for always getting the wrong end of the stick.

I would rather argue against/ignore Jethro's ludicrous assertions than banning him. What are we, the church????
Forgive me if I've totally misunderstood this issue.
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: Bobber on March 05, 2009, 09:08:27 AM
Quote from: 185
I'm having trouble with this. I couldn't disagree more with JT's view of the Beatles if I tried (prophet's my ar*e) and I'm as godless as they come, but am I right in supposing this person is being banned for expressing opinions not in favour with the majority? That don't sit right with me.
If being absurd is a basis for banning, can I suggest banning:
- Sandra for liking Van Halen
- Jane for seeing only the good in Lennon
- Bobber for his ridiculously youthful good looks
- me for always getting the wrong end of the stick.

I would rather argue against/ignore Jethro's ludicrous assertions than banning him. What are we, the church????
Forgive me if I've totally misunderstood this issue.

The reason for the ban was not expressing this thing in particular. It was posting the same post, which was JT's first post, in five or six different boards. It's called spamming and people will find their membership disabled. So, JT was banned for spamming, not for expressing a certain belief.
Thanks for the credits. You're not too bad yourself either. Will Al ever set up another Sixties Night?  ;D
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: Swine on March 05, 2009, 09:13:27 AM
Quote from: 1393
Well, Jethro Tull is trying to make the Beatles sound religious. And that maybe only the first step to something else, which is no good. In this I agree with the swine.

well thank you miss jane. we are coming together at least. wanna join my stable?  ;D

Quote from: 1393
But religion being for the poor man is offending as if, you have nothing poor guys but religion, no life, no emotions, no thoughts, nothing to be happy about, nothing to enjoy and to expect from this life. Maybe go and die right now? This is a very careless unresponsible statement. In this I agree with Alexis.

i am not responsible for this interpretation. like bobber already said, theres more poor people in churches than fat rich ones like me.
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: alexis on March 05, 2009, 12:30:03 PM
Quote from: 1789
...


i am not responsible for this interpretation.
like bobber already said, theres more poor people in churches than fat rich ones like me.

Ah, but aren't we responsible for choosing our words and acting in ways that are mindful of others feelings? As was noted earlier, your idea certainly is debatable, but why not put it forth in less inflammatory terms, if that is an option?

Respectfully signed,

Father Mackenzie
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: Kevin on March 05, 2009, 01:08:36 PM
Quote from: 1393
Well, Jethro Tull is trying to make the Beatles sound religious. And that maybe only the first step to something else, which is no good.
Why is JT attaching religious connotations so bad? We all get what we can. I could and can happily relate the Beatles to game theory, evolution and the superiority of right wing politics.
Jane - you know I disagree completely with your views on Lennon. But we happily debate the issue. Why are JT's skewed opinions any less valid than your own??
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: Kevin on March 05, 2009, 05:20:34 PM
Quote from: 1789
religion is for the poor man.

More an observation than an insult methinks.
I'm a full-on Darwinist, but can't get into knocking religion. Evolution invented it for a reason, it's a huge part of the human experience, and (like violence?? ) can't be turned off just because it doesn't seem to suit us anymore.
It's known that religious people generally have longer, more contented lives. This is evolution rewarding individuals who are social animals (because surely religion's primary motive is to bond groups of humans together.)
And for the vaste majority of religious people, their faith gives them hope, comfort and contentedness. And who are us sceptics to argue with that?
If I want to hate someone it's agnostics. To say "I believe in something but I don't know what" is a ridiculous statement for anyone to make.
Anyways, thanks for listening. This is a pet subject of mine and I love sounding off.

pps I work with a Jehovas Witness and we have some very good discussions, though he insists on calling evolution "Darwin's theory." I like to refer to gravity as "Newton's Notion."
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: JimmyMcCullochFan on March 05, 2009, 05:26:16 PM
Quote from: 15

It was always burning since the world's been turning eh?


MP0APvTSMMw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MP0APvTSMMw)
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: alexis on March 05, 2009, 05:28:38 PM
Quote from: 185

More an observation than an insult methinks.
I'm a full-on Darwinist, but can't get into knocking religion. Evolution invented it for a reason, it's a huge part of the human experience, and (like violence??) can't be turned off just because it doesn't seem to suit us anymore.
It's known that religious people generally have longer, more contented lives. This is evolution rewarding individuals who are social animals (because surely religion's primary motive is to bond groups of humans together.)
And for the vaste majority of religious people, their faith gives them hope, comfort and contentedness. And who are us sceptics to argue with that?
If I want to hate someone it's agnostics. To say "I believe in something but I don't know what" is a ridiculous statement for anyone to make.
Anyways, thanks for listening. This uis a pet subject of mine and I love sounding off.

You see, I don't think it's an A vs B thing. What I mean is, I strongly believe a full fledged Darwinist can be a full-souled religious practitioner. The wall between them is there I think because it is easy to construct, but there's nothing that must of necessity separate them.

And, why hate people for their beliefs (or lack of beliefs, in your example of agnosticism)? Reach out to them, with Darwin, or the Bible, or both!

Here's my favorite joke, or at least the only one I can reliably remember:

Ali: Did you hear about the agnostic dyslexic insomniac?

Baba:  Yeah, wasn't he the guy who lay awake all night, wondering if there really was a Dog?

Title: Re: The Present
Post by: Kevin on March 05, 2009, 05:42:45 PM
Quote from: 568

You see, I don't think it's an A vs B thing. What I mean is, I strongly believe a full fledged Darwinist can be a full-souled religious practitioner.

I don't see how you can, unless you start delving into creationism, which any decent Darwinist would regard as equally absurd. Surely in order to believe in God (I'll grace him with a capital) and evolution you'd have to accept that God has never done anything other than run a very exclusive retirement home (and even then he can't be ar*sed to man the front desk) and perhaps performed the odd miracle. Not much of a CV for a supposedly omnipotent everlasting supernatural being.
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: Jane on March 05, 2009, 08:10:34 PM
Quote from: 185
I'm having trouble with this. I couldn't disagree more with JT's view of the Beatles if I tried (prophet's my ar*e) and I'm as godless as they come, but am I right in supposing this person is being banned for expressing opinions not in favour with the majority? That don't sit right with me.
If being absurd is a basis for banning, can I suggest banning:
- Sandra for liking Van Halen
- Jane for seeing only the good in Lennon
- Bobber for his ridiculously youthful good looks
- me for always getting the wrong end of the stick.

I would rather argue against/ignore Jethro's ludicrous assertions than banning him. What are we, the church????
Forgive me if I've totally misunderstood this issue.

I`ve never mentioned that JT should be banned! It`s ok for him to express his ideas. I just posted my thoughts provoked by his ideas. The Beatles had never been that religious and, to my mind, ascribing to their words and lyrics any religious connotations is wrong. Is misleading. IMO looking at things from a religious angle may be like looking at them through another cover. Why do it? Take them as they are.

BTW I never see only good in Lennon, I know quite well what kind of person he was. It`s just my reaction to your extremely downgrading attitude to him. I was absolutely taken aback by this reaction, the reaction that I saw at this forum. Maybe it was because I`ve never seen such an angry cruel attitude to John in my life. Everybody is free to criticise any Beatle, but not in such a way! You have definitely overdone it. Besides, this theory like Lennon being god is not spread in Russia at all. I didn`t know it even existed. People take him as a great artist, that`s it. Before joining this forum I hardly knew who I liked better, Paul or John. But now with your help I don`t like either of them. You, the British, ruin their appeal, put them below the plinth (
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: Jane on March 05, 2009, 08:28:54 PM
Quote from: 185
Why is JT attaching religious connotations so bad? We all get what we can. I could and can happily relate the Beatles to game theory, evolution and the superiority of right wing politics.
Jane - you know I disagree completely with your views on Lennon. But we happily debate the issue. Why are JT's skewed opinions any less valid than your own??

Happily debate the issue? You hurt me all the time (the situation is aggravated by the fact that you`re a man and I am a girl) I have never done it. I wish we could happily debate the issue.
I`ve never said JT`s opinions were less valid than mine. Show me this line of mine. Quote it! So why do you say it? You`ve picked me out of all the posters who disagreed with JT. And insisted on something I`ve never said.
In fact, Kevin, I don`t want to argue. Cause you will immediately get into this mood of attacking...
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: Living One on March 05, 2009, 10:18:07 PM
Quote from: 185
I'm a full-on Darwinist, but can't get into knocking religion. Evolution invented it for a reason, it's a huge part of the human experience, and (like violence?? ) can't be turned off just because it doesn't seem to suit us anymore.

I agree that evolution (collective unconscious) invented religion for a reason, and that evolution (collective unconscious) set The Beatles apart from Nature for a reason.  The Beatles section is just a small part of "The Present," but it is related to this forum so I specifically mentioned it.  The whole book is quite interesting.

Page 219

"Frozen in time: The time is right now and the Beatles' music is still here exactly like it was then. Actually, it has been remastered and is even better. The Beatles have been frozen in time still young, waiting for us to evolve enough to hear what the music contains, just as Jesus has been waiting on us to understand him.

The song,
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: Sondra on March 06, 2009, 02:37:29 AM
Quote from: 185


If I want to hate someone it's agnostics. To say "I believe in something but I don't know what" is a ridiculous statement for anyone to make.

"

Not everybody is capable of absolutes. People are complicated. A person can feel a higher power or presence, but may not be able to come to terms with the whole religion God thing. It's spirituality. It's not as simple as that statement. Not that I'm disagreeing with you or anything Kevin cuz you know I'd never do that!  8)
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: BlueMeanie on March 06, 2009, 09:47:06 AM
Quote
I`ve never mentioned that JT should be banned!

Just to reiterate, and push the point home before all the mods are sent to Hell, JT was NOT banned for his beliefs. He was banned for spamming. Thank you, good night.
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: Kevin on March 06, 2009, 12:21:12 PM
Hello Jane. I don't think disagreeing with you is the same as attacking you. Can't see what our sexes have to do with it either.
And I was responding to this statement of yours : "Well, Jethro Tull is trying to make the Beatles sound religious. And that maybe only the first step to something else, which is no good." And now "The Beatles had never been that religious and, to my mind, ascribing to their words and lyrics any religious connotations is wrong."
I agree that what JT is complete tosh. But my point was we all (you and me included) make connotations about the Beatles, and you and I defend the right to do that. I think you make preposterous assumptions about Lennon, as I think you would say the same about me. So we debate. I tell you why I think you're wrong. You may do the same to me.As we should with JT, or ignore him, which I will now, because what he says is silly.
Sorry if I've offended you, but I make no apologies for what I've said.
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: alexis on March 06, 2009, 01:14:55 PM
"What about my joke then? What about my joke?"

It's the best (only) one I have!
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: Mairi on March 06, 2009, 03:09:21 PM
*shakes head and sighs*
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: Living One on March 06, 2009, 03:27:41 PM
Quote from: 185
I agree that what JT is complete tosh...
...So we debate. I tell you why I think you're wrong.  You may do the same to me.  As we should with JT, or ignore him, which I will now, because what he says is silly.

You affirm that what I say and what "The Present" says is 'complete tosh and silly,' but you don't say why.  I'd much rather you debate with me and tell me why I'm wrong so that I can hear out your opinions and learn from you.  If you're going to say things like that, then please back them up.  Disregarding everything I say as 'complete tosh and silliness' only to ignore me is like a hit and run.  

None of the quotes I posted make any sense to you?

Title: Re: The Present
Post by: Swine on March 06, 2009, 03:39:31 PM
Quote from: 568

Ah, but aren't we responsible for choosing our words and acting in ways that are mindful of others feelings? As was noted earlier, your idea certainly is debatable, but why not put it forth in less inflammatory terms, if that is an option?

Respectfully signed,

Father Mackenzie

are you a priest? lol. bold statements are always oneliners. i think the observation or statement isnt inflammatory at all. your and others interpretations make it inflammatory. its not because im the swine that you jump on my back, is it? to me jethro tulls statements and interpretations are inflammatory as well. he doesnt regard my values, does he? my greatgrandfathers were killed by missionairies, long long ago you see.
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: Kevin on March 06, 2009, 04:56:53 PM
Quote from: 1915

None of the quotes I posted make any sense to you?


Sorry, but no. I find statements like "The song,
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: Mairi on March 06, 2009, 05:22:27 PM
This topic sucks and is now about Looney Tunes.


HELLO MY BABY

HELLO MY HONEY

HELLO MY RAGTIME GAAAAAL
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: Kevin on March 06, 2009, 06:22:05 PM
I just have to say one last thing to Jane:
my comment about banning you for only seeing the good in Lennon was supposed to be a jokey compliment, like my mention of Bobber's absurd boyish good looks.
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: Bobber on March 06, 2009, 07:26:31 PM
Quote from: 185
I just have to say one last thing to Jane:
my comment about banning you for only seeing the good in Lennon was supposed to be a jokey compliment, like my mention of Bobber's absurd boyish good looks.

Oh! So I'm let off the hook! Blimey, that was close.
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: Jane on March 06, 2009, 09:41:34 PM
Quote from: 185
Hello Jane. I don't think disagreeing with you is the same as attacking you. Can't see what our sexes have to do with it either.
And I was responding to this statement of yours : "Well, Jethro Tull is trying to make the Beatles sound religious. And that maybe only the first step to something else, which is no good." And now "The Beatles had never been that religious and, to my mind, ascribing to their words and lyrics any religious connotations is wrong."
I agree that what JT is complete tosh. But my point was we all (you and me included) make connotations about the Beatles, and you and I defend the right to do that. I think you make preposterous assumptions about Lennon, as I think you would say the same about me. So we debate. I tell you why I think you're wrong. You may do the same to me.As we should with JT, or ignore him, which I will now, because what he says is silly.
Sorry if I've offended you, but I make no apologies for what I've said.

Hello, Kevin. Thank you for your kind words! I appreciate it very much.
(though I fear BM will say "the trouble is you don`t get it..." still, I hope I got it right...)
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: Swine on March 06, 2009, 09:43:38 PM
kind words? if i would say this to the missus, she would hit me in the face. you are a remarkable woman miss jane.
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: Jane on March 06, 2009, 09:48:37 PM
Quote from: 63

Oh! So I'm let off the hook! Blimey, that was close.

Bobber, are we all Blade Runners?
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: Jane on March 06, 2009, 09:56:01 PM
Quote from: 1789
kind words? if i would say this to the missus, she would hit me in the face. you are a remarkable woman miss jane.

I am confused. What have I missed? And I have to look up the word "remarkable", surely it has some connotations I am ignorant of.  :(
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: Jane on March 06, 2009, 10:14:03 PM
And speaking about connotations. The last thing I would like to say to JT. In fact one can attach any meaning to practically anything. As well as to the Beatles songs. One can interprete them in many-many different ways. But they can`t all be true, cause they are different. Where does the truth lie? So, better look at it as it is, take it as it is. Do not attach some far-fetched ideas and "connotations" to it.
One example. When the Beatles came to Uston (spelling?) large crowds gathered to greet them and Maharishi Mahesh Yogi immediately realized what big fish he had caught. Before that he didn`t know what niche the Beatles had in the world of music. Being a very long-sighted and shrewd religious leader he made a mental note to himself to insert some Beatles` lines and lyrics into his speculation, lectures and talks about reincarnation, karma and the world of illusion. In other words, to interprete them in his own way! You see! Do you think he was close to the truth?
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: Living One on March 07, 2009, 06:14:12 PM
Quote from: 185
I think you are trying to be overly clever and need to realise we listen to a bunch of pop songs written by a couple of scouse gits for teenage girls.

A bit of a closed-minded statement.
So, all the songs they wrote in India were for teenage girls?  What about their later career?
Your telling me that songs like "Within You Without You" are 'pop songs written by a couple of scouse gits for teenage girls?"
I agree that when they first started as young chaps, they may have been writing some of their early songs for teenage girls.  However, I do think that they were presenting a much bigger message throughout their musical career.  No other band changed as much as The Beatles over the years, from Please Please Me to Abbey Road.  Anyone who has ever been in a band knows that what they did was near impossible.  I think there was something far more special to the Beatles' music besides 'pop music.'

Quote from: 1393
One can interprete them in many-many different ways. But they can`t all be true, cause they are different. Where does the truth lie? So, better look at it as it is, take it as it is. Do not attach some far-fetched ideas and "connotations" to it.

Jane, you are absolutely right in the sense that there have been many different interpretations.  They can't all be right, but I'm sure many of them have been hinting at the same thing.  "The Present" is also an interpretation, but it is one that you can check for yourself.  This interpretation doesn't attach "far-fetched ideas and connotations" to the music.  It just suggests a new way to listen to their music.  I thought the implications were rather obvious instead of far-fetched, and they helped me enjoy the music I had loved for so long in a new, magical way.

Quote from: 1393
In other words, to interprete them in his own way! You see! Do you think he was close to the truth?

Thank you for sharing that.  I'm not sure if he was close to the truth; I have not heard his lectures.  Many have realized how special The Beatles were, whether it be subconsciously or consciously.  What they did was magical; they brought people together and were the forefront of the peace and love movement.

There are undeniably many interpretations of The Beatles message; but from what I have seen, "The Present" has the most sensible, accurate interpretation, with ideas that you can check for yourself.  It made complete sense to me, and I wouldn't be sharing it with you if I thought it was false.
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: Jane on March 07, 2009, 09:37:25 PM
I am happy for you, for your peace of mind, JT. However, I have my own interpretation. And I am very happy with it.
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: Living One on March 07, 2009, 10:36:11 PM
Quote from: 1393
I am happy for you, for your peace of mind, JT. However, I have my own interpretation. And I am very happy with it.

Thanks Jane.  =)
If you wouldn't mind sharing, I would love to see your interpretation.  I love to learn from other interpretations, and to see how they compare to my own.

Title: Re: The Present
Post by: adamzero on March 07, 2009, 11:35:06 PM
JT, I read parts of your piece.  I found it reminiscent of Krishnamurti (which is a compliment).  My only is advice is that you consider having it edited and proofread.  I think it's of particular importance that you lived through the Beatles' "first wave."  I was born too late for that; but it's great to read something by someone who "grew up" with them.  

I agree with Jane, anything can be interpreted any way--particularly in regard to spirit, that subtile essence, since (for me at least) all is ultimately spirit.  I would prefer the word "Presence" to "Present," but that's my bias or viewpoint or whatever.  

I think that most of us come to these boards to seek meaning in one way or another (from arcane info about the Beatles to friendship).  

I'll close with the oft-quote lines from Blake:

"To see the world in a grain of sand,
and to see heaven in a wild flower,
hold infinity in the palm of your hands,
and eternity in an hour"

Sometimes the grain of sand can be the lines from "I'll Get You," sometimes it can be the guitar Paul used on "Taxman."  Just depends how far you look.
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: alexis on March 08, 2009, 12:40:19 AM
Quote from: 9
JT, I read parts of your piece.  I found it reminiscent of Krishnamurti (which is a compliment).  My only is advice is that you consider having it edited and proofread.  I think it's of particular importance that you lived through the Beatles' "first wave."  I was born too late for that; but it's great to read something by someone who "grew up" with them.  

I agree with Jane, anything can be interpreted any way--particularly in regard to spirit, that subtile essence, since (for me at least) all is ultimately spirit.  I would prefer the word "Presence" to "Present," but that's my bias or viewpoint or whatever.  

I think that most of us come to these boards to seek meaning in one way or another (from arcane info about the Beatles to friendship).  

I'll close with the oft-quote lines from Blake:

"To see the world in a grain of sand,
and to see heaven in a wild flower,
hold infinity in the palm of your hands,
and eternity in an hour"

Sometimes the grain of sand can be the lines from "I'll Get You," sometimes it can be the guitar Paul used on "Taxman."  Just depends how far you look.


(afraid4)(afraid4)(god)(god)

Wow, what a response, thank you for allowing me to read it. I nominate this for response of the year (anyone keeping a list?).

It might even inspire me to read poetry (if the poems are not too long, or abstruse).

Awesome, azdamzero!
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: Living One on March 08, 2009, 04:27:22 AM
Quote from: 9
JT, I read parts of your piece.  I found it reminiscent of Krishnamurti (which is a compliment).  My only is advice is that you consider having it edited and proofread.  I think it's of particular importance that you lived through the Beatles' "first wave."  I was born too late for that; but it's great to read something by someone who "grew up" with them.

To be honest, I did not write this book, nor did I live through the Beatles' "first wave" (in my current life, at least).  I just really enjoyed this book, as I really enjoy The Beatles.  You are right; "The Present" needs serious grammatical revision.  However, I feel the content of the book is more important than the grammar.

Quote from: 9
I agree with Jane, anything can be interpreted any way--particularly in regard to spirit, that subtile essence, since (for me at least) all is ultimately spirit.  I would prefer the word "Presence" to "Present," but that's my bias or viewpoint or whatever.
  

Yes, our minds interpret anything and everything in countless ways.  However, we are all interpreting the same thing.  That which is, the now, or the present moment.  Spirit is a good way to describe things when you feel that 'all is ultimately spirit.'

Quote from: 9
I'll close with the oft-quote lines from Blake:

"To see the world in a grain of sand,
and to see heaven in a wild flower,
hold infinity in the palm of your hands,
and eternity in an hour"

Sometimes the grain of sand can be the lines from "I'll Get You," sometimes it can be the guitar Paul used on "Taxman."  Just depends how far you look.

Beautiful quotes, and a nice last line.  It does depend how far you look, or hear, or sense in any way.

Quote
You can celebrate anything you want..
You can penetrate any place you go..
You can radiate everything you are..
You can imitate everyone you know..
You can indicate anything you see..
You can syndicate any boat you row..
Everything has got to be just like you want it to
Because--
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: BlueMeanie on March 08, 2009, 09:12:22 AM
Quote from: 1915
You can celebrate anything you want..
You can penetrate any place you go..
You can radiate everything you are..
You can imitate everyone you know..
You can indicate anything you see..
You can syndicate any boat you row..
Everything has got to be just like you want it to
Because--

You haven't considered that he just might have been using wordplay here?

Ridiculous.
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: pc31 on March 08, 2009, 12:55:58 PM
fBpyichRWo0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBpyichRWo0)
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: Jane on March 08, 2009, 09:51:03 PM
Adamzero, thank you for your post! I also enjoyed it very much! Great ideas.  :) Was it William Blake you were quoting? Or whom?

BTW, I thought The Present meant "present that is given to somebody, for example, on one`s birthday". Not "present as compared to the past". I think I am right here, aren`t I??? The present the Beatles gave to us, or in line with the theory, to humanity. What do you think. Maybe JT will answer this question? I think he(?) is confused himself.

JT wrote "Because..." We have divine spirit in us? Yes, but it doesn`t mean that the Beatles sang about the love for God. They sang about the love of a man for a woman and of a woman for a man, they sang about the love for the nearest and dearest, they sang about the love for humanity, for all. That is their present to the world: Love will save the world, Love makes the world go round, All you need is love. For me the Beatles is LOVE (mostly of a man to a woman, of course, they were so handsome), the Beatles is human relations and feelings, pain and joy...They sang about the love for a human...please, stop here...and think about people, about us, about you and me...
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: BlueMeanie on March 09, 2009, 08:03:18 AM
Quote from: 1393
They sang about the love for a human..

So did Trini Lopez! ;D
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: Kevin on March 09, 2009, 09:00:17 AM
Quote from: 1915

Your telling me that songs like "Within You Without You" are 'pop songs written by a couple of scouse gits for teenage girls?"
I agree that when they first started as young chaps, they may have been writing some of their early songs for teenage girls.  However, I do think that they were presenting a much bigger message..... I think there was something far more special to the Beatles' music besides 'pop music.'
C'mon, by mid sixties every band and their dog were trying to wrap their wares in a veneer of mysticism or serious messaging - there's nothing special about The Beatles in that regard, other than they did it especially better than most. It was the trend of the day. Crikey- even Elvis felt compelled to jump in with some social commentary on "In the Ghetto." You can listen to Donovan if you need your life to be enhanced by sixties hippy pyscho-babble. Is he a prophet?
Bored rock stars with too much time, money and drugs a messiah do not make.
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: Mairi on March 09, 2009, 12:51:13 PM
I SAY NOW I SAY

I THOYGHT I SAID THIS TOPIC WAS NOW ABOUT LOONEY TUNES
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: alexis on March 09, 2009, 01:38:57 PM
What about my joke then?!


*** In best BBC John impersonation ...***
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: adamzero on March 09, 2009, 01:58:31 PM
Thanks Alexis and Jane.  

Yes, the quote is from Blake's "Auguries of Innocence."

Sorry, JT, I thought you were the author.  

I would go with "presence" rather than "present" because I think the latter is more materialistic.  Our minds create the "present"--it has no objective existence.  Our minds are connected to something spiritual I'd call the Presence that allows us to live in the present.  

Jai guru deva om.
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: Swine on March 09, 2009, 02:02:09 PM
funny how believers usually ignore those who think something different
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: alexis on March 09, 2009, 02:22:08 PM
Quote from: 1789
funny how believers usually ignore those who think something different

No more true than the converse - non-believers usually ignore (and often belittle) those who think differently.

We're all the same, just different flavors.
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: Swine on March 09, 2009, 03:57:27 PM
Quote from: 568

No more true than the converse - non-believers usually ignore (and often belittle) those who think differently.

We're all the same, just different flavors.

fair enough alexis. you understand i prefer my own flavor if you catch my drift. lol
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: alexis on March 09, 2009, 04:47:58 PM
Quote from: 1789

fair enough alexis. you understand i prefer my own flavor if you catch my drift. lol

Voice of (god) : Choose wisely, oh, swine! (devil5)(fire2)

 ( :) )
 
Speaking of "drifts", it has been written that hell is not actually (fire2) , but rather eternal damnation in an immense snowdrift, doomed to hear repeated throughout eternity "Don't worry Kyoko, Mommy's only looking for a hand in the snow".  (dead1)
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: Jane on March 09, 2009, 08:31:12 PM
Quote from: 9
Thanks Alexis and Jane.  

Yes, the quote is from Blake's "Auguries of Innocence."

Sorry, JT, I thought you were the author.  

I would go with "presence" rather than "present" because I think the latter is more materialistic.  Our minds create the "present"--it has no objective existence.  Our minds are connected to something spiritual I'd call the Presence that allows us to live in the present.  

Jai guru deva om.

Maybe it is both Present and Presence? There`s a lot of truth in Our minds create the present. From that follows - That`s why we all see it differently, that`s why it depends on us and to change it (if something is wrong) we just have to take a different look at it. But is it so? Another conclusion also is - that reality doesn`t exist. There`s no objective reality, only subjective. Can it be so?
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: Swine on March 09, 2009, 08:35:47 PM
Quote from: 1393

I am confused. What have I missed? And I have to look up the word "remarkable", surely it has some connotations I am ignorant of.  :(

you know the word connotation and you dont know the word remarkable? your vocabulary makes quite specific choices...
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: Jane on March 09, 2009, 09:42:11 PM
Quote from: 1789

you know the word connotation and you dont know the word remarkable? your vocabulary makes quite specific choices...

I suspected that you meant something negative as usual, cause I know only positive meanings of this word. So I decided to check it. No specific choices, just because of your using this word. If it had been someone else, no problem.
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: Swine on March 09, 2009, 09:46:22 PM
Quote from: 1393

I suspected that you meant something negative as usual, cause I know only positive meanings of this word. So I decided to check it. No specific choices, just because of your using this word. If it had been someone else, no problem.

likewise, miss jane, likewise. i guess youre single?
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: Living One on March 09, 2009, 11:31:51 PM
Well it seems I've missed quite a bit of dialog, so I will attempt to respond to each person who directed something toward me.

Quote from: 483
You haven't considered that he just might have been using wordplay here?

Ridiculous.

I have considered this, before I started to listen to The Beatles music in a different way.  I listen to their tunes as if they are brand new every time, and as if they are talking directly to me when they say "you."  I listen as if they are speaking and playing to me, their spirit to my spirit, in the present moment.  (Of course, the mind is needed to interpret lyrics).

Quote from: 1393
BTW, I thought The Present meant "present that is given to somebody, for example, on one`s birthday". Not "present as compared to the past". I think I am right here, aren`t I??? The present the Beatles gave to us, or in line with the theory, to humanity. What do you think. Maybe JT will answer this question? I think he(?) is confused himself.

The present, or as I like to call it, the now, is the ultimate gift.  It is the gift of life, given to you every second of your conscious existence.  The now is the only moment you can experience, and the only moment where you can create reality in your mind.  I guess you could look at listening to The Beatles in the now as them giving you a present; they spread their love unconditionally through spirit (because they are no longer physically with us).

Quote from: 1393
They sang about the love of a man for a woman and of a woman for a man, they sang about the love for the nearest and dearest, they sang about the love for humanity, for all. That is their present to the world: Love will save the world, Love makes the world go round, All you need is love.

I agree that they did sing about love for all.  Some of their songs may have been about the love between a man and a women, but I certainly disagree that carnal love was their message.  You forgot some important lines sung by The Beatles, such as "love never dies," "love is old, love is new," and "all these memories lose their meanings, when I think of love as something new."  Love between a man and a woman dies, either with a break up, or physical death.  I feel that they were singing about divine love, or spiritual love.  Love that is always in the present moment for everyone to share.  Love that is boundless and endless, and can save the world.  "With our love, with our love, we can save the world...if they only knew."  Do you think they were trying to sing about the love between a man and a woman there?  Can carnal love that eventually dies between a man and a woman save the world?

Quote from: 185
C'mon, by mid sixties every band and their dog were trying to wrap their wares in a veneer of mysticism or serious messaging - there's nothing special about The Beatles in that regard, other than they did it especially better than most.

other than they did it especially better than most.  I'd say that is pretty special.  The Beatles changed the world, and they will change the world again when people start listening to them for what they were, prophets.  They will always be true, sending all their loving to you.  Now Kevin, I have no problem if you want to be closed-minded toward my interpretation and other interpretations, but just remember what you just said - "they did it especially better than most."  They are talking directly to you when you listen.

Quote from: 9
I would go with "presence" rather than "present" because I think the latter is more materialistic.  Our minds create the "present"--it has no objective existence.  Our minds are connected to something spiritual I'd call the Presence that allows us to live in the present.  

Agreeable.  Our minds create reality in the present, and the concept of past/present/future, but you cannot deny that the only moment we can experience is the now.  I also agree that we are all connected by an unseen "force."  Presence is an interesting one that I have never heard, I usually use collective unconscious mind/universal mind/Holy Spirit.  

Jai guru deva om to you too my friend.

Like I said, I listen to The Beatles as if they are speaking directly to me, to my spirit.  Most of you think it's just some cute guys singing love songs to a girl, which is understandable, because girls would wet their pants listening to them in the audience.  This may have been their intention at the time, or just a cover story, but regardless, you agree that they were singing to women.  Think of it like this.  Man gives, woman receives.  When you are listening, regardless of your sex, you are the receiver.  They are feeding your spirit, giving their love to you.  They are not giving you carnal, man/woman love, they are giving you spiritual love that never dies.  The next time you listen to a song, listen as if they were singing it for the first time directly to you.  Regardless of your sex, you are the receiver, you are the "woman" that they are singing to.  "The Present" explains this in far more detail than I do, so I recommend reading The Beatles section if you are interested.  Give it a shot, you might find something that really makes sense to you.

Thanks for your thoughts friends, they are very interesting.  Keep them coming!

Title: Re: The Present
Post by: BlueMeanie on March 10, 2009, 10:16:21 AM
Quote from: 1789
funny how believers usually ignore those who think something different

Just like socialists!!;D
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: Swine on March 10, 2009, 10:35:45 AM
Quote from: 1915
Well it seems I've missed quite a bit of dialog, so I will attempt to respond to each person who directed something toward me.

you ignored me again
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: pc31 on March 10, 2009, 11:10:15 AM
john said he did not want to be seen as a prophet...he also stated there were no great messages hidden in his songs...
read up on what lennon thought..this topic would have turned his stomach.....like it did mine.. ??)
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: pc31 on March 10, 2009, 11:21:28 AM
http://www.beatlesebooks.com/not-a-second-time
john wrote.....Jesus El Pifico, a garlic-eating, stinking little yellow, greasy fascist bastard catholic Spaniard." (A Spaniard in the Works, p.14).  but that doesn't mean he was godless.....here is a site for people who read to much into lennons lyrics...http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Evils%20in%20America/Rock-n-Roll/lennon.htm
he was just crafty with words...he loved to confuse intellectuals..or the self proclaimed ones mostly....
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: Living One on March 11, 2009, 05:53:08 AM
Quote from: 1789

you ignored me again

I'm sorry Swine, but I haven't noticed you directing an argument or a question to me.  Please clarify what you think I am ignoring.   :)

Quote from: 284
john said he did not want to be seen as a prophet...he also stated there were no great messages hidden in his songs...
read up on what lennon thought..this topic would have turned his stomach.....like it did mine..

You're probably right about John not wanting to been seen as a prophet or interpreted.  That doesn't mean that he wasn't a prophet.

Quote from: 284
he was just crafty with words...he loved to confuse intellectuals..or the self proclaimed ones mostly....

Yes, he shredded everyone in the realm of the mind games.  He was very witty and clever; I love to watch his interviews.  I don't really see what you are trying to prove though.

Do you think that there is no reason to think of The Beatles as prophets?
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: BlueMeanie on March 11, 2009, 07:45:07 AM
Quote from: 1915
You're probably right about John not wanting to been seen as a prophet or interpreted.  That doesn't mean that he wasn't a prophet.

Oh dear, oh dear!
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: The Swine on March 11, 2009, 08:09:43 AM
Quote from: 1915
You're probably right about John not wanting to been seen as a prophet or interpreted.  That doesn't mean that he wasn't a prophet.

interesting thought. so it goes for this too: the fact that you dont want to be seen as an ignorant twit or interpreted, doesnt mean that you arent an ignorant twit. prophet my ass. and believe me its a big one.
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: Living One on March 11, 2009, 02:56:24 PM
Quote from: 748
interesting thought. so it goes for this too: the fact that you dont want to be seen as an ignorant twit or interpreted, doesnt mean that you arent an ignorant twit. prophet my a**. and believe me its a big one.

I love you too?  You are right, assertions like this are based entirely on subjective opinion.  Again, I will propose this question to you and anyone else who wants to answer it.

Is there no reason at all to think of The Beatles as prophets?
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: Kevin on March 11, 2009, 04:53:02 PM
Quote from: 1915

Is there no reason at all to think of The Beatles as prophets?

My dictionary gives seven definations of a prophet and:
No, no, no, ummmm no, no, no, lets see.....thinking...thinking................no.

Thing is, I can go out and buy a brush, some paints and paper and start painting me a picture, and hey ho I'm an artist. And someone can say "look, an artist." And they would be right. Just that I'm a particularly sh*t one.
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: BlueMeanie on March 11, 2009, 05:15:49 PM
Quote from: 1915
Is there no reason at all to think of The Beatles as prophets?

No. They are/were musicians and songwriters. That's it. Whatever it is that you're hearing was not written for your benefit, it was put there by your own imagination. Is John Denver a prophet? Donny Osmond? John Bon Jovi? The Singing Nun? (better skip that one). You get my point? No, you probably don't.
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: Sondra on March 11, 2009, 07:55:25 PM
Quote from: 483

No. They are/were musicians and songwriters. That's it. Whatever it is that you're hearing was not written for your benefit, it was put there by your own imagination. Is John Denver a prophet? Donny Osmond? John Bon Jovi? The Singing Nun? (better skip that one). You get my point? No, you probably don't.

Surely Bob Dylan was a prophet no? Be reasonable man!  ;)

Title: Re: The Present
Post by: Jane on March 11, 2009, 08:54:24 PM
JT, maybe you are a prophet? Look, you are opening our eyes, we are beginning to see the light...Are you a special person? What are you by profession? (may I ask?)
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: BlueMeanie on March 11, 2009, 09:05:16 PM
Quote from: 1393
JT, maybe you are a prophet? Look, you are opening our eyes, we are beginning to see the light...Are you a special person? What are you by profession? (may I ask?)

Opening whose eyes? I'm nearly asleep. ;D

I wish he'd written the book, then we could say his profession was probably the leader of the church of the latter day Propheteers!! Boom! Boom!!
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: pc31 on March 11, 2009, 10:54:41 PM
the beatles are not prophets as you and timmy leary have hoped...they sing about relationships and wonderings...a prophet knows where they are going usually...in some cases they don't...but the beatles were not promblem solvers...what have they eradicated in your personal life?what direction were they sending us in?????
there is a heavy responsibility that goes with being a prophet..if you steer people in the wrong direction you can lose all face...john had said countless times his songs were not wrote for someone to live by because what worked for him might not work for someone else...and if you can declare the beatle boys as prophets then surely yoko is too....
would you say there are godless prophets??i would but you may not...who determines who prophets are?i would suggest that geronimo tho not a cheif led his people because he was a prohet.......is a prophet and a seer the same thing in your book????
i don't really want to cause too many waves just trying to see what the beatles fixed for you....
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: Sondra on March 12, 2009, 12:15:04 AM
I think there was another guy who thought they were prophets. Sometime in the late sixties. Think he caused a bit of trouble too. Some of you may have heard of him.  ::)
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: adamzero on March 12, 2009, 01:33:42 AM
Prophet is such a loaded word.  I agree with PC that a prophet usually walks the walk as well as talks the talk.   And John doesn't seem to have considered himself a prophet--pretty emphatically at times.

Maybe he's more in the mode of Zen Buddhist poet Basho who wrote the following famous poem about "The present":

"Old pond
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: Living One on March 12, 2009, 04:08:02 AM
Before I say anything, I will again urge you all to read The Beatles section in The Present, as it explains things in a similar and more detailed way that I do.  It is from the perspective of a man who lived through the "first wave" of The Beatles.  The Beatles section is but a small part of the book, which is a very interesting read, but I understand that all of you obviously have a love for The Beatles as you belong to this forum.

Quote from: 1393
JT, maybe you are a prophet? Look, you are opening our eyes, we are beginning to see the light...Are you a special person? What are you by profession? (may I ask?)

Maybe.  I live in a state of bliss and the most fulfilling thing I can do is to show people the way to the path of truth seeking, so that one day, they may find their own path to the truth, and live in a state of bliss and fulfillment.  I am not special from my perspective; I am just a part of the whole, a part of Nature.  I just wish to learn from your perspectives so that I may strengthen mine.  I want to subjectively learn about the universe by experiencing it, as to grow in spirit and love.

You may ask.  I am a full-time student, and a life-long truth seeker.

Quote from: 483
I wish he'd written the book, then we could say his profession was probably the leader of the church of the latter day Propheteers!! Boom! Boom!!

Page 261 of "The Present"

"Gandhi said,
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: Living One on March 12, 2009, 04:26:17 PM
One more thing I would like to add regarding a "new way" to listen to The Beatles.
This is a short excerpt from the Beatles section of "The Present."

'The sign: There is a sign in their songs to let us know the songs are not just a love song to a girl. The sign is the word "friend" which is not a way that you would address a girl you are singing a love song too.

Example: The song:
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: Jane on March 12, 2009, 09:10:23 PM
JT, you seem to be a nice person, very agreeable and kind, but, unfortunately, you are under the influence, which is impossible to lift. You have imagined things to youself and have let them under your skin, and apparently have lived with them for quite a time. False as the assertions are, they are your life. So, stay with them, if it suits you, if it comforts you and gives you serenity and peace of mind. You have found your equilibrium, equanimity. And I wouldn`t like you to be left without it. Good luck!
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: fendertele on March 12, 2009, 09:38:52 PM
Wow seriously without sounding too rude, but this is all a load of baloney, you seem like a nice guy but all those 4 men were doing was singing about everyday things like love, friendship, octopus's .........  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: HeyJude18 on March 12, 2009, 09:42:07 PM
^ can't forget the walruses too!  There you go, I Am the Walrus a song that was written partially because people tried to find some hidden meaning behind their songs!  ALL THE PROOF I NEED!
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: Living One on March 12, 2009, 10:49:17 PM
Quote from: 1393
JT, you seem to be a nice person, very agreeable and kind, but, unfortunately, you are under the influence, which is impossible to lift. You have imagined things to youself and have let them under your skin, and apparently have lived with them for quite a time. False as the assertions are, they are your life. So, stay with them, if it suits you, if it comforts you and gives you serenity and peace of mind. You have found your equilibrium, equanimity. And I wouldn`t like you to be left without it. Good luck!

Thanks Jane, you seem like a sweet person, thank you for your words of kindness.  However, do understand that this is no longer my imagination wandering, and these assertions that I am making are blatantly self-evident to me; they are supported every time I listen to their music.  The falsehood of my assertions is based on your subjective opinion; I think that they are perfectly true.  Do you know for sure if they are false?  Have you tested the assertions made in "The Present" and made by me for yourself?



Quote from: 1447
There you go, I Am the Walrus a song that was written partially because people tried to find some hidden meaning behind their songs!  ALL THE PROOF I NEED!

What about all the songs that they didn't "partially" write because people tried to find hidden meaning behind their songs?


I see exactly where you all are coming from.  I loved to just sit back and enjoy The Beatles before I started listening to The Beatles in a different way, I didn't see the need to interpret meaning.  Then, I found the interpretation in "The Present," and the new way of listening became completely obvious and relevant.  Ever since, I enjoy listening to their music even more, more and more every single day because everything they say is so true and beautiful.

Why would they choose to use the word "friend" to address a girl that they were singing a love song to?
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: Sondra on March 13, 2009, 02:52:54 AM
"Manson saw the four Beatles' members as being the "four angels" referred to in Revelation 9. Revelation 9 also tells of "locusts"--the Beatles, of course--coming out upon the earth. It describes prophets as having "faces as the faces of men" but with "the hair of women"--an assumed reference to the long hair of the all-male English group. In Revelation 9, the four angels with "breastplates of fire"--electric guitars--"issued fire and brimstone"--song lyrics. Manson believed that the Beatles spoke to him through their lyrics, especially those included in the White Album, released in December 1968."

Similar thinking or what? Scary. Sorry, but it's the first thing this thread made me think of and makes me think of every time I click on it. If that event didn't show the absurdity of reading too much into the Beatles' lyrics, I don't know what ever would.

Title: Re: The Present
Post by: pc31 on March 13, 2009, 03:20:36 AM
BgutE0OClls (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgutE0OClls)
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: Living One on March 13, 2009, 04:21:01 AM
Quote from: 216
Similar thinking or what? Scary. Sorry, but it's the first thing this thread made me think of and makes me think of every time I click on it. If that event didn't show the absurdity of reading too much into the Beatles' lyrics, I don't know what ever would.

I obviously see where your association comes from.  I don't think The Beatles speak especially to me, I think they speak to everyone, provided they are listening with the right state of mind.  I'm talking about all their music, from Please Please Me and on.  I completely disagree that this is similar thinking, as Manson's "revelations" were clearly delusions of his own mind.  He compared a prophecy with something he experienced in his lifetime, which means he had no basis of true evidence.  This interpretation I am presenting to you doesn't have anything out of the ordinary, and is something that I am merely asking you to check for yourself, to see if it makes sense to you.  It makes perfect sense to me, so I thought I would share my discovery with fellow Beatles fans.   :)

I associate no violence with The Beatles, only unconditional love and wonderful music.
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: HeyJude18 on March 13, 2009, 04:50:23 AM
It kinda seems odd to me that this discussion has carried on this long.  Really, lets be honest, the Beatles speak to all of us, except for the majority of us we don't relate it to a religion or to the Beatles as prophets.  They have of course changed my life.    Can we please just put an end to this, you can go along your merry way JT and preach your message of listening to them in the "right state of mind".  All we want is peace and love, why can't we get that?
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: Kevin on March 13, 2009, 07:31:05 AM
Quote from: 216
"Manson saw the four Beatles' members as being the "four angels" referred to in Revelation 9. Revelation 9 also tells of "locusts"--the Beatles, of course--coming out upon the earth. It describes prophets as having "faces as the faces of men" but with "the hair of women"--an assumed reference to the long hair of the all-male English group. In Revelation 9, the four angels with "breastplates of fire"--electric guitars--"issued fire and brimstone"--song lyrics. Manson believed that the Beatles spoke to him through their lyrics, especially those included in the White Album, released in December 1968."

Similar thinking or what? Scary. Sorry, but it's the first thing this thread made me think of and makes me think of every time I click on it. If that event didn't show the absurdity of reading too much into the Beatles' lyrics, I don't know what ever would.



Fantastic Sandra. I love you.
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: BlueMeanie on March 13, 2009, 07:58:57 AM
Quote from: 185


Fantastic Sandra. I love you.

We all love you!!

All hail the new messiah. Or um...Messiahette!
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: Ged on March 13, 2009, 10:37:30 AM
I've been following the thread with interest but without poking an extra nose in but the last few comments have been quite simply the best to date. JT, if it works for you, great, but don't try to impose it on others, the more you try to make someone believe something they truly don't, it'll just force them in the opposite direction anyway, it sounds very bible bashing, like those annoying JW's that knock you up every other sunday morning.

In the 'Imagine' film, John's people find a hippyish wanderer camping in the grounds and bring him to the house. He's convinced John's songs have meanings pertaining to him, some people just have too much time on their hands it seems. Anyway, John puts his mind at rest in the most down to earth way possible saying something like 'I could just write about something like I had a great sh*t this morning' or words to that effect. If this doesn't convince you it was just a bunch of very talented like minded guys doing something they loved and got paid very well for it, what will and are all those people that don't even like the Beatles doomed to hell?    
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: Living One on March 13, 2009, 05:11:32 PM
Quote from: 1624
I've been following the thread with interest but without poking an extra nose in but the last few comments have been quite simply the best to date. JT, if it works for you, great, but don't try to impose it on others, the more you try to make someone believe something they truly don't, it'll just force them in the opposite direction anyway, it sounds very bible bashing, like those annoying JW's that knock you up every other sunday morning.

Ged, you bring up a wonderful point, thank you for that.  I am terribly sorry if I have come off as imposing my views on you all, or "preaching."  I don't know where all this religious stuff is coming from; I have never tried to put The Beatles in context of religion.  I think there is a major difference between prophets and religion.  Anyway, as to put an end to my assertions, I merely ask that you read this section and check the ideas for yourself, nothing more, nothing less.  I don't intend to force my perspective on you, but rather to share it, as a compassionate human being.  Please don't accept or reject what I'm saying or what "The Present" is saying without checking it for yourself.

It is impossible, practically speaking, to know the intent and even the veracity of those who create such sweeping explorations that you don't even try.  The words speak for themselves, the ideas have a momentum, and we can discuss it in good faith that it is meant to be taken seriously.

Quote from: 1447
Really, lets be honest, the Beatles speak to all of us, except for the majority of us we don't relate it to a religion or to the Beatles as prophets.

How do they speak to you?  I would love to hear your perspective.   :)

Quote from: 1447
Can we please just put an end to this, you can go along your merry way JT and preach your message of listening to them in the "right state of mind".  All we want is peace and love, why can't we get that?

Many apologies for proselytizing; you have all made it clear that this conduct is not the proper approach to an issue like this.  By sharing my perspective, all I'm trying to give you is unconditional love my friend, but you must find your inner peace.  Please understand that I would not be sharing this if I did not feel compassion for all human beings.  This is but a sharing/learning experience for me; an endless quest of giving love and seeking truth.

(heart2)
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: HeyJude18 on March 13, 2009, 05:14:48 PM
Ok, you want to know how?  They've helped me through the hardest times of my life, their words resonate in my mind and let me know that there's something better out there than just this world.  They were by no means prophets, they're "four guys who made it big".  There's other artist that have been like this to me too - for example Johnny Cash.  I just have a deeper love for the Beatles and a special place in my heart for them than any other.
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: Jane on March 13, 2009, 08:53:17 PM
Well, actually, we have some threads on the same topic, cause it all boils down to one idea: What is the Beatles to you? The threads are: You know you`re a fan, Why were the Beatles so interesting? Why are they so good?...so on. Everybody has their own reasons to love the band. I can`t say that the Beatles helped me in some way, for example, to overcome the difficulties, to get out of the depression, or to learn things. No. The simple thing is that I fell in love with the band and their music and songs and this is true love. And true love persists. They just fill some part of my life and make it more interesting, exciting. I love them to accompany me in my life as if they were good dear friends. No special meaning or divine love. Good dear friends and certainly novators, great artists, interesting personalities, about whom I like to learn more and more. That`s why I welcome all the books written and the films made on the subject. I am a fan. It`s not a crazy obsession but it`s a kind of a never-ending beloved hobby.
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: Living One on March 13, 2009, 10:54:39 PM
Quote from: 1447
I just have a deeper love for the Beatles and a special place in my heart for them than any other.

Thank you for sharing!  I also feel the same way.
I live in a state of perpetual bliss, but I can't help but smile when I listen to The Beatles.  They are magical, and I feel the love flow through me whenever I sing along or play their songs on my guitar.

Quote
They just fill some part of my life and make it more interesting, exciting. I love them to accompany me in my life as if they were good dear friends.

Jane, that was a beautifully written segment, thank you for sharing.  The Beatles are always new to me, every time I hear them, because their music is so interesting and exciting.  I love to watch videos of them, because they are the "now" personified.  They were so good at taking in the moment and spreading their love.  When you think of The Beatles as new, it is a love that never dies.  When you think of love as something new, you are always filled with love.

They are great friends to have, in spirit and in music.  They are no longer physically here, but they send all their love to you through their music.  They help you get by, with a little help from your friends (The Beatles).

If anyone else would like to share their perspective on The Beatles, I would really enjoy reading it!
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: HeyJude18 on March 13, 2009, 11:49:39 PM
Quote from: 1915

Thank you for sharing!  I also feel the same way.
I live in a state of perpetual bliss, but I can't help but smile when I listen to The Beatles.  They are magical, and I feel the love flow through me whenever I sing along or play their songs on my guitar.

See, this seems a little more human to me rather than someone that I can only compare to someone from the Bible-belt when they realize that someone's an athiest.
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: Living One on March 14, 2009, 06:04:01 AM
Quote from: 1447
See, this seems a little more human to me rather than someone that I can only compare to someone from the Bible-belt when they realize that someone's an athiest.

Definitely.  I never even compared them to the Bible.  The Beatles were around some 1600 years after the Bible was put together, so I really don't have a basis to compare the two.  The Beatles are for everyone to enjoy.  (inlove2)
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: Sondra on March 16, 2009, 12:07:21 AM
Quote from: 185


Fantastic Sandra. I love you.


Ha. Well, I do try. I was also gonna post some quotes from MDC , but I figured, what's the point.(http://www.freewebby.com/action-smilies/dev2.gif)
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: An Apple Beatle on March 18, 2009, 11:12:59 AM
The Sun Kings of ambiguity. It's all interpretation.
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: Living One on March 20, 2009, 12:38:32 AM
Hi folks!

Well, some of you have stated that The Beatles were just some handsome chaps singing love songs to girls.
I have stated that I feel that The Beatles are talking directly to you when you listen to them.

Why do they use the word friend?  Is that the way you address a girl that you were singing a love song to?
Why did they repeatedly choose to use that word?
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: pc31 on March 20, 2009, 03:03:45 AM
I
Still
See
Understanding
Eludes
Some.......
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: Kevin on March 20, 2009, 09:46:56 AM
Quote from: 1915
Hi folks!

I have stated that I feel that The Beatles are talking directly to you when you listen to them.

And as Sandra so wonderfully pointed out, so did Charles Manson and MDC. You're in good company.

Title: Re: The Present
Post by: Penny Lane on March 20, 2009, 11:39:12 AM
Quote from: 1789
you understand i prefer my own flavor

Which flavor of yourself?  Bacon, ham, or pork rind?   :P

I'm amazed that this thread has lasted this long.
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: Living One on March 20, 2009, 05:40:48 PM
Quote from: 185

And as Sandra so wonderfully pointed out, so did Charles Manson and MDC. You're in good company.


Notice I did not say that The Beatles are talking directly to just "me."  They are talking to "you," or anyone who listens to their music.
I find it heartbreaking that you would compare me to these terrible, delusional people.  But I digress...

Why do they use the word friend?  Is that the way you address a girl that you were singing a love song to?
Why did they repeatedly choose to use that word?

Your opinions and answers to these questions are more than welcome!  I'd really like to learn your perspectives.   :)
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: Jane on March 21, 2009, 04:10:03 PM
Bacause some girlfriends are loved, some are just friends, some are both, loves and friends, which is the best. If your girlfriend is no friend to you then you can`t go on.
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: Living One on March 24, 2009, 12:23:40 AM
Very true Jane, but I don't think "friend" is a way to address a girl that you are singing a love song to.  Like I have said, I think they are singing love songs directly to everyone who listens, as we are all the receiver.  We are all the friend, the girl, the darling, the baby, the her, the she, because we are the receiver.  Metaphorically, the female is the receiver.

Check out this excerpt from "The Present" on page 213:

"Second coming: They are coming back, but not as the cute mop tops we saw the first time. This time we will see them for the prophets they really were and hear the spiritual and truth side of their music. It will change the world again. The power and vibe is still there; add the truth and the life (the present), your new perspective and you have a door to the magical mystery tour, a ticket to ride.
 
The long and winding road that leads to your door; they mean your door, your spirit. When they say I want to be your man, it means they want to be your mind.
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: Sondra on March 24, 2009, 01:33:39 AM
Quote from: 1915

The long and winding road that leads to your door; they mean your door, your spirit. When they say I want to be your man, it means they want to be your
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: Living One on March 24, 2009, 03:43:09 AM
Quote from: 216
When they say: "The long and winding road that leads to your door"- it's probably because "door" rhymes with "before."
When they say: "I wanna to be your man"-they're probably saying, this is a throw away song, so let's finish it quick and give it to the Stones
When thy say: "I wanna hold your hand"- they're probably saying, the girls will eat this stuff up, so let's write ourselves a swimming pool.
When they say: "Come on" -they're probably saying, hey it worked for Buddy Holly, so why not us?

Entirely possible, and these may have been the exact thoughts that ran through their heads when they wrote the lyrics.  I personally think they were saying these things when they wrote the music, but they aren't saying these things when you listen to the music, right now.  They are saying, to you, right now:  "I wanna be your man, I wanna hold your hand."  Their thoughts while writing the music have not persisted, but their music has, and it is brand new every time you hear it.  Let them give you their love, from spirit to spirit (music to you).

Quote
I hope I'm allowed to debate this without being accused of being "aggressive" because I don't particularly agree. It's what we're here for. No? ;)

Of course!  Thanks for your opinions Sandra.

Title: Re: The Present
Post by: The Swine on March 24, 2009, 10:26:03 AM
yawn again.
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: adamzero on March 26, 2009, 12:25:57 AM
I just listened to "Run for your Life" and realized that John Lennon is trying to kill me!   He's talking to ME in the song?!  Not some little girl with her head in the sand.  And I don't even want to be with another man!
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: Hello Goodbye on March 26, 2009, 01:50:51 AM
^  :)
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: Mairi on May 06, 2009, 12:42:58 AM
I know the Beatles love me because they put my face on the back of all of their CDs.
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: BlueMeanie on May 06, 2009, 06:42:56 AM
Quote from: 218
I know the Beatles love me because they put my face on the back of all of their CDs.

 ;D
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: Living One on May 31, 2009, 05:27:29 AM
Quote from: 9
I just listened to "Run for your Life" and realized that John Lennon is trying to kill me!   He's talking to ME in the song?!  Not some little girl with her head in the sand.  And I don't even want to be with another man!

Haha, very good.   ;D



Just read through this section again; it was great to hear all those songs again listed in the book.  It has links to a lot of Anthology songs.  I especially like the Fool On The Hill (take 4) off of Anthology 2.  This section is incredible, and it makes the "hidden messages" in Beatles songs so easy to notice.
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: The Swine on June 07, 2009, 06:47:34 PM
you and roscow should team up
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: True1 on August 21, 2009, 12:29:11 AM
Hi,
i am new here and was looking across the posts here and then came across your post. I began reading the beatles section of "the present" on www.thetruthcontest.com (http://www.thetruthcontest.com) and it is really different and insightful, but not in the usual way that people interpret beatles songs to have some sort of hidden meaning. The Beatles did not hide their meaning at all, and they weren't trying to consciously put some meanings into some of their songs, but it was coming from the collective consciousness of their time; the revolution of the 60's. It inspired so many people to take a new look at life and the Beatles did an incredible thing by changing so much throughout the sixties, matching what was going on on the outside too. What they did was magical and has never been repeated by another band. It is beyond comprehension the kind of effect they had on that generation and also the kids even today. tons of kids still listen to the beatles and love them. Their was truth in the beatles songs as clear as daylight, and they shared their love with everyone through the vibrations of music. Music is the cosmic dance :)
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: An Apple Beatle on August 21, 2009, 09:28:27 AM
Hi,
i am new here and was looking across the posts here and then came across your post. I began reading the beatles section of "the present" on [url=http://www.thetruthcontest.com]www.thetruthcontest.com[/url] ([url]http://www.thetruthcontest.com[/url]) and it is really different and insightful, but not in the usual way that people interpret beatles songs to have some sort of hidden meaning. The Beatles did not hide their meaning at all, and they weren't trying to consciously put some meanings into some of their songs, but it was coming from the collective consciousness of their time; the revolution of the 60's. It inspired so many people to take a new look at life and the Beatles did an incredible thing by changing so much throughout the sixties, matching what was going on on the outside too. What they did was magical and has never been repeated by another band. It is beyond comprehension the kind of effect they had on that generation and also the kids even today. tons of kids still listen to the beatles and love them. Their was truth in the beatles songs as clear as daylight, and they shared their love with everyone through the vibrations of music. Music is the cosmic dance :)

Hi again Jethro. :)
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: Living One on August 22, 2009, 06:30:36 PM
The Beatles did not hide their meaning at all, and they weren't trying to consciously put some meanings into some of their songs, but it was coming from the collective consciousness of their time; the revolution of the 60's. It inspired so many people to take a new look at life and the Beatles did an incredible thing by changing so much throughout the sixties, matching what was going on on the outside too. What they did was magical and has never been repeated by another band.

Yeah, that is exactly what I've been trying to say.  I never understood why people tried to look so deep into each and every lyric.  The message is not hidden; it is just a matter of hearing it from a different perspective.  I sort of gave up on trying to discuss it, because people were just giving me their negativity, but I'd be happy to discuss that section with you if you find something you like.  :)

I've read it a few more times since I made this post, and it still rings true to me.
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: An Apple Beatle on August 23, 2009, 09:29:51 AM
Yes but Jethro, why have you started to talk to yourself now? You and True1 are one and the same...the lengths some people go to, to get a point across..Geeee!
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: BlueMeanie on August 23, 2009, 04:21:02 PM
^ Sometimes you can have a better conversation with yourself!! See ya Jethro.
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: Living One on August 23, 2009, 09:03:33 PM
I am not only true1, I am everyone, including you!  We're all one.  Groovy.

We need to get a point across because it is helpful to everyone.
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: Sondra on August 23, 2009, 09:05:16 PM
I am not only true1, I am everyone, including you!  We're all one.  Groovy.

We need to get a point across because it is helpful to everyone.

"I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together."
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: True1 on August 23, 2009, 09:10:49 PM
exactly, and in that song he also says he is the "eggman", meaning he will crack through the shell of his ego.
it is a compliment to say we are one. we are all together, interconnected, all one in everything but ego. "you gotta let it, you gotta let it go" -John lennon, "mind games"
Title: Re: The Present
Post by: Ligger on December 23, 2009, 01:00:32 AM
I read somewhere that Eric Burdon was the eggman. John gave him that name at a wild London party.