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Solo forums => John Lennon => Topic started by: nimrod on October 14, 2012, 09:45:36 PM

Title: Yoko Ono
Post by: nimrod on October 14, 2012, 09:45:36 PM
Just wanted to discuss here and what the general feeling about her amongst Beatle fans, Ive just finished reading Fred Seamans book about his time at the Dakota.......maddeningly we will never know how accurate it all is, could be 100% truth, could be 50% truth etc etc
He paints a picture of Yoko as someone who is sick and fed up with John and just wants him out of the way, she hides herself 'downstairs' in Studio 1 on the phone day & night while John has to amuse himself with Sean all day, when he tries to book even lunch with 'Mother' she keeps him waiting outside her office and then tells him to go without here, then she apparently has an affair with Sam Green after John has gone to Bermuda, John hounds her to visit him & Sean in Bermuda she eventually goes but sulks the weekend away and leaves early etc etc
Then Fred says at the end of his book that she makes the most of his death by releasing demo tapes and all sorts of John stuff, even selling his songs for TV adds in places like Japan.
Its obvious Fred didnt like her and a lot of Beatle fans still blame here for splitting up the band, sitting in on recording Let It Be, turning Johns head all the time into doing crazy stunts and eventually having some kind of power over him - keeping him in check so to speak

John obviously loved her very much and seemed to need here, she had something deep that Cynthia (or anyone else) never gave him and he wanted the world and the fans to accept her as part of him.......what are your feelings about Yoko ?
Title: Re: Yoko Ono
Post by: Dcazz on October 15, 2012, 11:40:14 AM
Getting him sniffing heroine!
I had to think about this a bit. I haven't read the book but if becoming intertwined wih his persona was her goal? She succeeded.
I think he's right about her. She sent him to LA for almost two years with May Pang for comfort and to report(?) to her his goings on till he wanted to come home. Then I would say he was under her control as he basically disappeared for 5 years. I'm sure she took care of herself for the time he was away. I could be presumtuous but thats my feeling about it. In the end I don't think I like her very much either, just a fact of life she's here and did what she did.
Title: Re: Yoko Ono
Post by: tkitna on October 16, 2012, 12:58:26 AM
She's a C#^T!!!!!!
Title: Re: Yoko Ono
Post by: ibanez_ax on October 16, 2012, 01:36:28 AM
She's a C#^T!!!!!!

Don't hold back.  Tell us how you really feel.
Title: Re: Yoko Ono
Post by: nimrod on October 16, 2012, 01:59:53 AM
She's a C#^T!!!!!!






(http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/oh-you-show.jpg)
Title: Re: Yoko Ono
Post by: Hello Goodbye on October 16, 2012, 02:53:54 AM
She has a beautiful voice...


WE'RE ALL WATER by Yoko Ono (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfZvHuh7wKM#)
Title: Re: Yoko Ono
Post by: Dcazz on October 17, 2012, 03:25:27 AM
Yikes!
Title: Re: Yoko Ono
Post by: Hello Goodbye on February 19, 2013, 03:12:47 AM
She can sing The Star Spangled Banner so beautifully...


Yoko Ono Sings The Star Spangled Banner (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8w4pmMsFOCY#ws)


Maybe next year they'll let her sing it at the Superbowl.


Title: Re: Yoko Ono
Post by: Bobber on February 19, 2013, 09:32:21 AM
I don't know. The general opinion is against her, but I have never met her. I can't tell. I do know however that I'm not a fan of her singing voice.
Title: Re: Yoko Ono
Post by: Hello Goodbye on February 20, 2013, 03:07:01 AM
I do know however that I'm not a fan of her singing voice.


Why?  What's wrong with it?


Yoko Ono at Twickenham Studios  January 1969 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cA8GBwJ-98#)
Title: Re: Yoko Ono
Post by: Bobber on February 20, 2013, 09:17:06 AM
Why?  What's wrong with it?


As you know, this is a rehearsal for their song 'John & Yoko', which appeared on The Wedding Album.

She's just out of tune here and there, that's it.
Title: Re: Yoko Ono
Post by: Hello Goodbye on February 21, 2013, 02:17:41 AM
As you know, this is a rehearsal for their song 'John & Yoko', which appeared on The Wedding Album.

She's just out of tune here and there, that's it.

It just needs some double tracking and it would sound beautiful.
Title: Re: Yoko Ono
Post by: nimrod on June 17, 2013, 11:43:31 PM
Paul McCartney talks about Yoko Ono (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bnh_vqZFL2A#)
Title: Re: Yoko Ono
Post by: Kaleidoscope_Eyes on June 26, 2013, 01:12:52 AM
The first thing that I thought of when I watched this is: how honest is he?
Title: Re: Yoko Ono
Post by: In My Life on June 27, 2013, 12:30:29 AM
The first thing that I thought of when I watched this is: how honest is he?

Really! If he really believed what he was saying here he could go by St. Sir Paul McCartney. What film is this clip from?
Title: Re: Yoko Ono
Post by: Casbah on July 31, 2013, 06:48:45 AM
I gave this question a lot of thought as well.
I've known about Yoko for 36 years. In those 36 years, I've heard all the stories, I've read all the books, forums, etc. People hate her. People say give her a chance, she was John's wife and he loved her why can't we do the same?

I think she was a manipulator. I don't think she was any good for John and she certainly wasn't good for the Beatles. She was on a personal mission. She wanted fame and she wanted notoriety. She had tried and failed and failed again up to the point where she met John at the Indica gallery.
She claims she didn't know the Beatles, the biggest sensation in the same scene she was trying to make a name for herself in. Really.

Yoko didn't cause the breakup of the Beatles but she certainly was the accelerant. Maybe John used Yoko a little bit too. He was getting disenchanted with the Beatles even before he met Yoko.  Yoko helping to break the band apart did some of the dirty work for him. Maybe I'm reaching a little with that one, but it could have some merit.

I'll never know what John saw in Yoko because I think John was a mentally f***ed up man at that time. He was also brilliantly talented which is why we loved him and I think by the time the end of the 70's rolled around he started getting it together but she had a crazy brain herself and I just never liked the woman and I do blame her for helping break up the Beatles.

I see her now as an opportunist and I think it sucks that Johns legacy is left in her hands as well as 1/4 of the Beatles legacy. She uses both to keep herself relevant.

Ahh. Yoko sucks.  ;D Sorry John!


Title: Re: Yoko Ono
Post by: tkitna on August 01, 2013, 12:16:24 AM
I gave this question a lot of thought as well.
I've known about Yoko for 36 years. In those 36 years, I've heard all the stories, I've read all the books, forums, etc. People hate her. People say give her a chance, she was John's wife and he loved her why can't we do the same?

I think she was a manipulator. I don't think she was any good for John and she certainly wasn't good for the Beatles. She was on a personal mission. She wanted fame and she wanted notoriety. She had tried and failed and failed again up to the point where she met John at the Indica gallery.
She claims she didn't know the Beatles, the biggest sensation in the same scene she was trying to make a name for herself in. Really.

Yoko didn't cause the breakup of the Beatles but she certainly was the accelerant. Maybe John used Yoko a little bit too. He was getting disenchanted with the Beatles even before he met Yoko.  Yoko helping to break the band apart did some of the dirty work for him. Maybe I'm reaching a little with that one, but it could have some merit.

I'll never know what John saw in Yoko because I think John was a mentally f***ed up man at that time. He was also brilliantly talented which is why we loved him and I think by the time the end of the 70's rolled around he started getting it together but she had a crazy brain herself and I just never liked the woman and I do blame her for helping break up the Beatles.

I see her now as an opportunist and I think it sucks that Johns legacy is left in her hands as well as 1/4 of the Beatles legacy. She uses both to keep herself relevant.

Ahh. Yoko sucks.  ;D Sorry John!


Well said.

(http://assets0.ordienetworks.com/images/GifGuide/clapping/audience.gif)

Amen, Casbah, Amen.
Title: Re: Yoko Ono
Post by: stuartblogtumblr on August 09, 2013, 07:42:22 PM
Don't usually comment on anything other than Stuart, but since I also read Fred Seaman's book as well as the very interesting "Get Back: the Unauthorized Chronicle of the Beatles Let It Be Disaster", I'll share my somewhat ambiguous Ono opinion.  I gotta say I definitely agree with Casbah---well said indeed.  I'll add that I think, bright as Lennon was, he was a pretty lazy guy---and was easily led and influenced.  Stuart was the dedicated, impassioned artist who showed John how to paint when the art school profs couldn't make a dent; McCartney was often the advocate of new, unconventional music and musicians; there was the Maharishi, Magic Alex, Allan Klein and of course, Yoko herself to lead and beguile.  Once interested and the groundwork laid, John would throw in with all he had...until the next new thing came along.

I don't think Ono broke up the Beatles.  In my opinion, the band's breakup was inevitable from the start, caused by the personalities and behavior of its members.  Not that Ono didn't use that for her own benefit.

Having said all that, I also think that Ono's poetry and early performance pieces (the voiceless ones) were intriguing and worth attention.  They weren't getting enough attention, apparently...a world-famous collaborator (especially one easy to manipulate) would certainly boost her celebrity.  And once John became a martyr, her name was was assured.

"Love" is a word that covers all sorts of needs and motivations.  John needed Ono at a time when everything he used to believe in was slipping away.  It's my personal opinion that had John lived, he might have found himself enough to detach from Ono.  He said he was "starting over"; hopefully that effort would have seen him "moving on".
Title: Re: Yoko Ono
Post by: Normandie on December 03, 2013, 04:37:18 PM

Yoko compares being blamed for the Beatles breakup to being accused of murder:

http://www.today.com/entertainment/yoko-ono-compares-being-blamed-beatles-split-being-accused-murder-2D11673321?lite&lite=obinsite (http://www.today.com/entertainment/yoko-ono-compares-being-blamed-beatles-split-being-accused-murder-2D11673321?lite&lite=obinsite)

I seriously doubt that the reason why people don't like her music is because they perceive her as having played a role in the Beatles' breakup.
Title: Re: Yoko Ono
Post by: In My Life on December 05, 2013, 02:53:25 AM
I seriously doubt that the reason why people don't like her music is because they perceive her as having played a role in the Beatles' breakup.

I agree. When I hear her music I don't want it to stop because she may have broken up the Beatles; I want it to stop because I can't stand it.
Title: Re: Yoko Ono
Post by: Dcazz on December 05, 2013, 04:11:03 AM
I agree. When I hear her music I don't want it to stop because she may have broken up the Beatles; I want it to stop because I can't stand it.
They need an avatar with it's fingers in it's ears just for her!
Title: Re: Yoko Ono
Post by: Hello Goodbye on December 05, 2013, 04:17:43 AM
I can listen to Voice Piece For Soprano and Wish Tree over and over again...


Yoko Ono Screaming at Art Show! (Original) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdZ9weP5i68#ws)


Title: Re: Yoko Ono
Post by: In My Life on December 05, 2013, 10:45:17 PM
I can listen to Voice Piece For Soprano and Wish Tree over and over again...

I guess someone has to do it!
Title: Re: Yoko Ono
Post by: JimDep on March 08, 2014, 09:36:45 AM
Yoko OH NO.......should be doing life in prison for murdering Johnny B. Goode on the Mike Douglas show.

Remember the look on Chuck Berry's face when she started going " YYEEEEOOOWW MUIIEEEE YAAAAAHHHHHA OWOWWWWWEEEE"
during the chorus?  Oh yeah....that fits in nicley....  Nails on a chalkboard would sound angelic by comparison.

John Lennon had some serious issues that really hit the fan after the Beatlemania thing started getting monotonous.  I don't envy his childhood. That probably would have screwed most people up, and unfortunately he was a perfect target for a predator like Ono. Never-mind that John was married with child..right?   

No excuse for stalking a married man, not that he was innocent by any stretch.  Just like Julian said, that John sang about world peace but threw his own real family under the bus.
Title: Re: Yoko Ono
Post by: Normandie on March 08, 2014, 03:13:19 PM
Yoko OH NO.......should be doing life in prison for murdering Johnny B. Goode on the Mike Douglas show.

Uh oh...I haven't seen that clip. I'm pretty sure I don't want to look it up! Will take your word for it.    ;)
Title: Re: Yoko Ono
Post by: In My Life on March 08, 2014, 07:30:20 PM
Uh oh...I haven't seen that clip. I'm pretty sure I don't want to look it up! Will take your word for it.    ;)


Oh Kathy, you've got to watch it. It will make you laugh when you see Chuck Berry's reaction to Yoko's initial outburst and then how Yoko was dealt with in the second song, which starts at 7:30. Just watch her carefully and you'll see what I mean. It is a shame though that John's chance to perform with his idol didn't turn out better. Yoko aside, it was a pretty lack-luster affair.

http://youtu.be/495VEzYjABg (http://youtu.be/495VEzYjABg)

Title: Re: Yoko Ono
Post by: Hello Goodbye on March 09, 2014, 01:10:26 AM
...he was a perfect target for a predator like Ono.


(http://www.1fmediaproject.net/new/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/SKYLADDERS-Treviso-Stephan-Craesneanskpress.jpg)

It looks like she's planning on getting married again.
Title: Re: Yoko Ono
Post by: Normandie on March 09, 2014, 04:48:56 PM
Oh Kathy, you've got to watch it. It will make you laugh when you see Chuck Berry's reaction to Yoko's initial outburst and then how Yoko was dealt with in the second song, which starts at 7:30. Just watch her carefully and you'll see what I mean. It is a shame though that John's chance to perform with his idol didn't turn out better. Yoko aside, it was a pretty lack-luster affair.


Thanks for posting that, Kelley. I also laughed at the way she is banging angrily on that bongo.
Title: Re: Yoko Ono
Post by: Normandie on March 14, 2014, 03:39:52 AM
It looks like she's planning on getting married again.

 ha2ha  What is her deal with ladders anyway??
Title: Re: Yoko Ono
Post by: Hello Goodbye on March 14, 2014, 05:26:57 AM
ha2ha  What is her deal with ladders anyway??


(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_fgePaP-TVwk/Soke5vYLw7I/AAAAAAAABwE/2GMjtBlhryM/s400/2891959833_b9b54e7a39.jpg)

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_fgePaP-TVwk/Soke8JYvw-I/AAAAAAAABwM/zR5yKymvVmI/s1600/2891959913_c8f9d22142.jpg)


I guess she figures she can pull that off again.
Title: Re: Yoko Ono
Post by: Normandie on March 14, 2014, 02:17:53 PM
I guess she figures she can pull that off again.

I'm shaking my head. Maybe I'm just a clod, but I do NOT get all that strange conceptual art stuff (especially Yoko's!). I never really cared for that sort of music, either, like the composer (Philip Glass? John Cage? I'm blanking out) whose musical piece was to have a person sit at a piano the entire time and do nothing, and the "music" was considered the audience's foot-shuffling, whispers, coughs, etc.
Title: Re: Yoko Ono
Post by: In My Life on March 14, 2014, 05:24:31 PM
I'm shaking my head. Maybe I'm just a clod, but I do NOT get all that strange conceptual art stuff (especially Yoko's!).

The other library, where I used to work, has an art gallery and there used to be some interesting exhibits at times. The funniest one was the dust bunny art. It was literally big globs of artfully(?) arranged dirt. Then there was one that involved a container of some kind that had water with some sort of substance in it. I don't remember the details but it started to rot and stink before the exhibit was over. The arts guy kept calling the lady to come and take care of it but he had a hard time locating her. so, yeah, I can't figure out that sort of thing either.
Title: Re: Yoko Ono
Post by: In My Life on March 16, 2014, 07:51:18 AM
I just had a message from a friend of mine who posted earlier on Facebook, expressing surprise that he saw a Yoko Ono retrospective at the Guggenheim. He didn't realize that she was still active. I asked him if it involved a ladder and of course it does!
Title: Re: Yoko Ono
Post by: Dcazz on March 16, 2014, 12:37:56 PM
With art like that I can understand why we have gardens! Odd stuff works much better.
Title: Re: Yoko Ono
Post by: Moogmodule on April 10, 2014, 07:22:25 PM
Everyone knocks Yoko. Not without reason.  But maybe John was so messed up that perhaps simply they deserved each other.

Title: Re: Yoko Ono
Post by: nimrod on April 10, 2014, 10:25:00 PM
Everyone knocks Yoko. Not without reason.  But maybe John was so messed up that perhaps simply they deserved each other.

Ive always thought that, imo she was a gold digger and she did go all out to snare John but hey, John had lost it by then with his drug intake which could've killed him earlier OR he could've ended up like Syd Barrett or Peter Green, maybe she extended his life...his love for her was incredibly deep and probably the only woman (besides his mother) that he ever loved.
Title: Re: Yoko Ono
Post by: tkitna on April 10, 2014, 11:50:42 PM
One of our female worship singers (the best one we have *sigh*) is moving back to Michigan. I called her Yoko at practice because she's breaking up the band and I got the deer in the headlights look. She's in her 20's and i'm not sure she even knows who Yoko is. Sucks getting old.
Title: Re: Yoko Ono
Post by: nimrod on April 11, 2014, 12:13:09 AM
Sucks getting old.

but its better than the alternative Todd     :-[
Title: Re: Yoko Ono
Post by: In My Life on April 11, 2014, 03:34:08 AM
One of our female worship singers (the best one we have *sigh*) is moving back to Michigan. I called her Yoko at practice because she's breaking up the band and I got the deer in the headlights look. She's in her 20's and i'm not sure she even knows who Yoko is. Sucks getting old.

Well, it was funny anyway Todd!
Title: Re: Yoko Ono
Post by: Casbah on September 11, 2014, 02:01:24 AM
Once again, it's George to the rescue, getting right down to the point and telling it like it is.

His most poignant comments come around the 7:30 mark. 


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQkMuHU9huM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQkMuHU9huM)
Title: Re: Yoko Ono
Post by: oldbrownshoe on September 11, 2014, 05:38:32 AM
Yikes, Yoko gets a bad rap.
I really like the weird 60s stuff (the weirder the better, anything that steers away from 'rock') but I have to say that I've never really dug 'her' weird 60s stuff. I don't dig Andy Warhol either.

I chanced in a charity shop a few years ago on a run from 1966 to 1972 (1968 was missing, other than that it was complete) of a magazine called 'Art & Artists' which was all about the Modern Art scene of the 60s and, sure enough, in one of the early issues, there was a advertisement for the Indica exhibition where John was supposed to have met Yoko.
Title: Re: Yoko Ono
Post by: Bingo Bongo on June 13, 2015, 07:56:12 PM
I seriously doubt that the reason why people don't like her music is because they perceive her as having played a role in the Beatles' breakup.


I still blame Yoko for the breakup of the Plastic Ono Band!  icon_cool
Title: Re: Yoko Ono
Post by: fanofthefab4 on December 02, 2015, 02:24:39 AM
I gave this question a lot of thought as well.
I've known about Yoko for 36 years. In those 36 years, I've heard all the stories, I've read all the books, forums, etc. People hate her. People say give her a chance, she was John's wife and he loved her why can't we do the same?

I think she was a manipulator. I don't think she was any good for John and she certainly wasn't good for the Beatles. She was on a personal mission. She wanted fame and she wanted notoriety. She had tried and failed and failed again up to the point where she met John at the Indica gallery.
She claims she didn't know the Beatles, the biggest sensation in the same scene she was trying to make a name for herself in. Really.

Yoko didn't cause the breakup of the Beatles but she certainly was the accelerant. Maybe John used Yoko a little bit too. He was getting disenchanted with the Beatles even before he met Yoko.  Yoko helping to break the band apart did some of the dirty work for him. Maybe I'm reaching a little with that one, but it could have some merit.

I'll never know what John saw in Yoko because I think John was a mentally f***ed up man at that time. He was also brilliantly talented which is why we loved him and I think by the time the end of the 70's rolled around he started getting it together but she had a crazy brain herself and I just never liked the woman and I do blame her for helping break up the Beatles.

I see her now as an opportunist and I think it sucks that Johns legacy is left in her hands as well as 1/4 of the Beatles legacy. She uses both to keep herself relevant.

Ahh. Yoko sucks.  ;D Sorry John!



This large amount of information isn't just to debunk the inaccurate things you said about Yoko and her being bad for John,but to anyone here there and everywhere who has these same unfortunate misperceptions.


John Lennon is a great example of people can change and are not fixed to be a certain way as a man or a woman.Yoko changed John into a much better person as a pro-feminist man and the feminist changes *are* for the better,and many pro-feminist men have recognized this too! They say it has freed them and allowed them to develop and express more of all of the shared common *human* traits,emotions,behaviors,abilities and reduce and prevent male violence against women and children etc. Definitions of "masculine" and "feminine" differ across time periods,and in different societies.
 
 
 
John Lennon is a great example of how feminism changing limited artificial gender definitions and roles,changed him for the much better. John as a child and teenager had a lot of traumas that permanently psychologically damaged him,but because of his and Yoko's beautiful loving relationship,and as he said she was a feminist before he met her,(and he said that because she was a feminist before he met her,they were going to have to have a 50/50 equal relationship which he never had before) he went in to primal scream therapy and Yoko went with him and he dealt with all of his pain and anger for the very first time at age 29.
 
 
 
When John was a young guy,he was often drunk getting into fist fights with men,hitting women,and womanizing including cheating on his girlfriends and then his first wife Cynthia.Of course Paul,George and Ringo did the same with all of the groupies all 4 of them had while touring from 1963-1966. I hadn't watched these Mike Douglas shows in years until December 2010 when it was the 30th anniversary of John's tragic crazy murder.
 
 
 
Out of the 5 Mike Douglas shows that John and Yoko co-hosted for a week that was taped in January 1972 and aired in February,a young criminal lawyer Rena Uviller(she went on to become a Supreme Court Judge) who worked with juveniles, and she,Mike Douglas,John and Yoko were discussing the then very recent women's liberation movement. George Carlin was on too.
 
 
 
Rena said,she agrees with Yoko,that the idea of Women's lib is to liberate all of us,and she said ,I mean we could talk hours on the way men really suffer under the sex role definitions.Yoko agreed with what she said too. Rena said that men don't really realize they have only to gain from Women's Lib,and that she thinks that maybe with a little more propaganda we can convince them.
 
 
 
John then said,yeah there is a lot to gain from it,just the fact that you can relax and not have to play that male role,he said we can do that,and he said that I can be weak,( but notice how then in a male dominated gender divided,gender stereotyped,sexist society,and even unfortunately still now in a lot of ways,the "female" role was defined as the weak one,and the male role as the strong one) I don't have to protect her all the time and play you know that super hero,I don't have to play that,she allows me to be weak sometimes and for me to cry,and for her to be the strong one,and for me to be the weak one. John then said,and it really is a great relief,after 28 years of trying to be tough,you know trying to show them,I don't give a da*n and I'm this and I'm that,to be able to relax.and just be able to say,OK I'm no tough guy forget it.
 
 
 
 
Rena then said,I think in some funny way,I think girls even as children,have a greater lattitude because a little girl can be sort of frilly and feminine or she can be a tomboy and it's acceptable,but a little boy if he's not tossing that football,there's a lot of pressure on him.John said,there's a lot of pressure,not to show emotion,and he said that there was a lot of pressure on me not to be an artist,to be a chemist and he said he discussed this on another Mike Douglas episode.
 
 
 
 
Rena said that unfortunately some of the leaders in the Women's Liberation movement fall victim to being spokesmen,for Women's Lib, and yet at least in public personality they seem to really have a certain amount of contempt for the hair curled housewife and there is a kind of sneering contempt,and she said I think it's a measure of their own lack of liberation.And Yoko said it's snobbery,and Rena said yeah,they really don't like other women,but I'm sympathetic,and Mike Douglas then said a sexist woman-hating statement,saying,well women don't like other women period.Rena said,no see that's very unliberated and Yoko said, in response to what Mike Douglas said,that's not true,that's not true.And John said,you see they are brought up to
compete with men.
 
 
 
 
Yoko said that even though in Japan they say they don't have much of a woman problem and women already had some liberation,there is still a long way to go that she really agrees with Rena that so many female liberation movement people basically hate women,and we have to first start to understand women and love them whether they are housewives or not,and she said that snobbery is very bad and we have to somehow find out a way to co-existing with men,and she asked Rena don't you think so and she said most definitely. George Carlin said,that actually many successful women are acting out male roles just like a lot of blacks think they escaped are acting out white roles.John also said that he thinks that women have to try twice as hard as to make it as men,and he said you know they have to be on their toes much more than a man.
 
 
 
 
On another Mike Douglas episode from the same week,former actress and acclaimed film maker Barbara Loden was on and Yoko had requested her as a guest.John asked her ,Did you have any problems working with the men,you know like giving them instructions and things like that and Barbara said,I did, but I think it was because I was afraid that they would not accept what I said,and I wasn't quite that authoritative in my own self.John said it's certainly a brave thing to do,and Yoko said it is.
 
 
 
 
Mike Douglas asked Yoko if John's attitude had changed much towards her since The Female Liberation Movement,and at first Yoko says John's attitude from the beginning was the same,and that they met on that level.John then says,twice, I was a male chauvinist and Yoko says,yes he was a male chauvinist but,and then John says,Can I say how you taught me,and Yoko says yes.John says,How I did it in my head was,would I ask Paul or George,or would I treat them the way I would treat a woman? John then said,it's a very simple thing maybe it's fetch that or do that ,and I started thinking if I said that to them,they'd say come on get it yourself,and if you put your wife or your girl friend in the position of your best friend,and say now would I say that to him,then you know when you're treading on some delicate feelings.
 
 
 
 
 
Mike Douglas said years later that after this week of John and Yoko co-hosting his show,many young people who had never watched his show before,(and his main audience was middle America and people older than their 20's and even mostly their 30's) told him they loved the show,and that it was great and his ratings went up high for those shows.Even if John didn't always live up to his feminist ideals and beliefs in his personal life,(although he did with Yoko because of her and this why and how he emotionally evolved into a caring,nurturing,house husband and father to Yoko and Sean),just the fact that he spoke out as a man in support of the feminist movement on a popular TV show back in early 1972 when most of the sexist male dominated woman-hating society looked down at it and considered it crazy which in some ways it's still unfortunately wrongly misunderstood(and it's really the male dominated,sexist,woman-hating society that has always been so wrong and crazy!),and the fact that John was (and still is) greatly admired and influential to many young people male and female,he did *a lot* to legitimize it and show it was rational,reasonable,needed and right!
 
 
 
 
A few months later he was performing Woman Is The Ni**er Of The World on The Dick Cavett Show and then months after that live in Madison Square Garden.In his very last radio interview done by Dave Sholin etc from RKO Radio just hours before he was tragically shot and killed, John said I'm more feminist now than I was when I sang Woman Is The N**ger,I was intellectually feminist then but now I feel as though at least I've put not my own money,but my body where my mouth is and I'm living up to my own preachings as it were.
 

 
He also said what is this BS men are this way, women are that way,we're all human.He had also said that he comes from the macho school of pretense of course *all* men really are they are just too conditioned all of their lives to realize and admit it.And he said that men are trained to be like they are in the army,and that it's more like that in England but he knows it's this way over here too,he said that they are taught as boys and men don't react,don't feel,don't cry,and he said he thinks that's what screwed us all up and that he thinks it's time for a change.
 
 
 
 
In his September 1980 Newsweek interview the interviewer said to John aren't you the guy who said in 1963 that women should be obscene and not heard,and John said yes and I'm thankful to Yoko for the feminist education.
Title: Re: Yoko Ono
Post by: fanofthefab4 on December 02, 2015, 02:26:53 AM
 
Mike Douglas also said to John and Yoko,You're both so different,you had such different childhoods. John said,it's incredible isn't it? Yoko said,Yes! Mike asked,What do you think has attracted you to each other? Yoko said,We're very similar.John then said,She came from a Japanese upper-middle class family.Her parents were bankers and all that jazz,very straight.He said they were trying to get her off with an ambassador when she was 18.You know,now is the time you marry the ambassador and we get all settled. I come from a an upper-working class family in Liverpool,the other end of the world. John then said,we met but our minds are so similar,our ideas are so similar.It was incredible that we could be so alike from different enviornments,and I don't know what it is,but we're very similar in our heads.And we look alike too!
 
 

Mike also asked John about his painful childhood,and how his father left him when he was 5,and John said how he only came back into his life when he was successful and famous(20 years later!),and John said he knew that I was living all those years in the same house with my auntie,but he never visited him.He said when he came back into his life all those years later,he looked after his father for the same amount of time he looked after him,about 4 years.
 
 
 
He also talked about how his beloved mother Julia,who encouraged his music by teaching him to play the banjo,got hit and killed by a car driven by an off duty drunk cop when John was only 17 and just getting to have a realtionship with her after she had given him away to be raised by her older sister Mimi when he was 5.
 
 
 
And John also said,And in spite of all that,I still don't have a hate-the-pigs attitude or hate-cops attitude.He then said, I think everybody's human you know,but it was very hard for me at that time,and I really had a chip on my shoulder,and it still comes out now and then,because it's a strange life to lead .He then said,But in general ah,I've got my own family now ...I got Yoko and she made up for all that pain.
 
 
 
 
John's psychologist Dr. Arthur Janov told Mojo Magazine in 2000( parts of this interview is on a great UK John Lennon fan site,You Are The Plastic Ono Band) that John had as much pain as he had ever seen in his life,and he was a psychologist for at least 18 years when John and Yoko saw him in 1970! He said John was a very dedicated patient. He also said that John left therapy too early though and that they opened him up,but didn't get a chance to put him back together again and Dr. Janov told John he need to finish the therapy,he said because of the immigration services and he thought Nixon was after him,he said we have to get out of the country.John asked if he could send a therapist to Mexico with him,and Dr. Janov told him we can't do that because they had too many patients to take care of,and he said they cut the therapy off just as it started really,and we were just getting going.

 
 
Also this great article by long time anti-sexist,anti-men's violence,anti-pornography former all star high school football player and author of the great important 2006 book,The Macho Paradox:How Some Men Hurt women And How All Men Can Help, Jackson Katz.John Lennon on Fatherfood,Feminism,and Phony Tough Guy Posturing
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jackson-katz/john-lennon-on-fatherhood_b_800333.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jackson-katz/john-lennon-on-fatherhood_b_800333.html)
 
 
 
 
Also Cynthia  Lennon is quoted in the great John Lennon biography Lennon,by award winning music journalist and former editor of The Melody Maker Magazine and good friend of John's for 18 years,Ray Coleman as saying somethings like she knew as soon as she saw John and Yoko together she knew that she lost him,and that it was a meeting of the minds and that she knew that they were right for each other.She also said that she told John before he started his relationship with Yoko that she sees and incedible similarity between him and Yoko and said to him that there is something about her that is just like you.She told him that he may say that she's this crazy woman etc and that he's not interested in her,but that she can see more into John's future with Yoko then he can.
Title: Re: Yoko Ono
Post by: fanofthefab4 on December 02, 2015, 02:32:27 AM
Before John met Yoko,John used to be a psychologically messed up angry sexist,pig,guy,who had fist fights with men,hit women,and like Paul,George and Ringo was a terrible cheating womanizer until he met Yoko who changed him so much for the better into a feminist nurturing house husband and father!


In this January 1971 interview with Red Mole John says that Yoko was well into liberation before he met her and that she had to fight her way through a man's world and he said  the art world is completely dominated by men and said  so Yoko was full of revolutionary zeal when they met. Then John said there was never any question about it  that they had to have a 50-50 relationship or there was no relationship and he said he was quick to learn and he said that Yoko did an article in Nova more than two years back in which she said Woman is the ni**er of the world.He also said that it's very subtle how you're taught male superiority.
 
 
http://www.beatlesinterviews.org/db1971.0121.beatles.html (http://www.beatlesinterviews.org/db1971.0121.beatles.html)


And nobody even mentions that Yoko never re-married in all these 35 years out of her devotion to John who would have wanted her to go on with her life the best she could and try to be happy again in a new relationship.And poor Yoko was right there and saw John get shot 4 times dying in front of her.




Also many years ago a woman radio DJ ,I don't remember her name,was asked what she thought about Yoko and she said something like,she likes anyone who can turn a sexist Northern Liverpool guy into a feminist! And also many years ago some web site had a list of the greatest women singers and Yoko was number 9,and it said that she got John to give up his misogyny(woman-hatred!)
And thank her so much for that!
Title: Re: Yoko Ono
Post by: fanofthefab4 on December 02, 2015, 02:35:04 AM
Just wanted to discuss here and what the general feeling about her amongst Beatle fans, Ive just finished reading Fred Seamans book about his time at the Dakota.......maddeningly we will never know how accurate it all is, could be 100% truth, could be 50% truth etc etc
He paints a picture of Yoko as someone who is sick and fed up with John and just wants him out of the way, she hides herself 'downstairs' in Studio 1 on the phone day & night while John has to amuse himself with Sean all day, when he tries to book even lunch with 'Mother' she keeps him waiting outside her office and then tells him to go without here, then she apparently has an affair with Sam Green after John has gone to Bermuda, John hounds her to visit him & Sean in Bermuda she eventually goes but sulks the weekend away and leaves early etc etc
Then Fred says at the end of his book that she makes the most of his death by releasing demo tapes and all sorts of John stuff, even selling his songs for TV adds in places like Japan.
Its obvious Fred didnt like her and a lot of Beatle fans still blame here for splitting up the band, sitting in on recording Let It Be, turning Johns head all the time into doing crazy stunts and eventually having some kind of power over him - keeping him in check so to speak

John obviously loved her very much and seemed to need here, she had something deep that Cynthia (or anyone else) never gave him and he wanted the world and the fans to accept her as part of him.......what are your feelings about Yoko ?


Fred Seaman? The guy who disgustingly admitted to stealing John's personal private diary and also cash and stereo equipment after John was killed as Ray Coleman ( who was an award winning music journalist and an editor of the music magazine The Melody Maker and a good friend of John's from 1962-1980) reported in his great biography of John,Lennon! Yes we should really trust and listen to what Fred says.
Title: Re: Yoko Ono
Post by: fanofthefab4 on December 02, 2015, 02:44:25 AM
I have also seen may pictures and video interviews with Yoko when she was younger and she looked very attractive with no make up on and at almost 83 she looks more attractive than some young people.Scavulo who was one of the best fashion and celebrity photographers took a beautiful glamorous black and white head shot portrait of Yoko,and she has eye make up on and her hair done up fancy,it's one of her pictures on The All Music Guide in her biography.


And in this picture on her instagram page,she looks very pretty as a young woman with no make up on.
https://instagram.com/p/zAeIgqjzuH/?taken-by=yokoonoofficial (https://instagram.com/p/zAeIgqjzuH/?taken-by=yokoonoofficial)


She's always been very intelligent too.I once spoke to a radio DJ who was now a manager of a CD store,and in 1983 he had gone to her apartment with another DJ who did a long interview with her and who hosted a breakfast with The Beatles show on Sundays.I asked him what she was like and he said she was a very nice lady.
Title: Re: Yoko Ono
Post by: tkitna on December 03, 2015, 09:04:44 AM
Yoko was the root of John becoming a pro-feminist which helped him to touch upon subjects like being unfaithful to his wife and yet she was the person who Cynthia found in her bed.  Sorry dude, I'm not listening to what your preaching.  She is and will always be a Barclay Hunt in my eyes.
Title: Re: Yoko Ono
Post by: Normandie on December 03, 2015, 11:36:41 PM
Yoko was the root of John becoming a pro-feminist which helped him to touch upon subjects like being unfaithful to his wife and yet she was the person who Cynthia found in her bed.  Sorry dude, I'm not listening to what your preaching. 

I'm with you, Todd.

And as for Yoko being pretty, my own reaction is: Ick. But that's a matter of personal taste.
Title: Re: Yoko Ono
Post by: tkitna on December 04, 2015, 12:33:33 AM
Before John met Yoko,John used to be a psychologically messed up angry sexist,pig,guy,who had fist fights with men,hit women,and like Paul,George and Ringo was a terrible cheating womanizer until he met Yoko who changed him so much for the better into a feminist nurturing house husband and father!

Was this before or after she got him hooked on herion?  Maybe this was before Yoko actually set him up with May Pang.  A real man wouldn't have taken the bait, but I guess you have it all figured out anyways.
Title: Re: Yoko Ono
Post by: tkitna on December 04, 2015, 12:39:09 AM
I'm with you, Todd.

And as for Yoko being pretty, my own reaction is: Ick. But that's a matter of personal taste.

Sorry for my gross and ignorant swearing in that last post Kathleen, but I was tired and riled up after reading all of that garbage.  How anybody can defend that woman is beyond me.
Title: Re: Yoko Ono
Post by: Normandie on December 04, 2015, 01:35:53 AM
^^^^^

No need to apologize; I've heard the word before.  ;)  And I don't see how anyone can defend Yoko, either. Also, I'm not a big fan of feminists, but the topic of feminists strays too far into politics, so I'll keep my mouth shut on that part.
Title: Re: Yoko Ono
Post by: In My Life on December 04, 2015, 05:20:14 AM
I have to cast my vote on the nay side too when it comes to Yoko. I don't feel that she was good for John at all.
Title: Re: Yoko Ono
Post by: nimrod on December 04, 2015, 05:26:08 AM

Fred Seaman? The guy who disgustingly admitted to stealing John's personal private diary and also cash and stereo equipment after John was killed as Ray Coleman ( who was an award winning music journalist and an editor of the music magazine The Melody Maker and a good friend of John's from 1962-1980) reported in his great biography of John,Lennon! Yes we should really trust and listen to what Fred says.

Well, if you'd taken the time to read my post properly I wasnt saying that Fred was a man to be trusted, I was merely reporting on the general timbre of his book

and asking what people on here really thought about her now

we are all grown ups on here and realise that a lot of books are written to make money and probably are more than a bit fictional, maybe even award winning journalist and editor of melody maker and Johns mate Ray Coleman.
Title: Re: Yoko Ono
Post by: Kevin on December 04, 2015, 10:12:33 AM
Sorry but I think if folk want to be p*ssed off with anyone it's John. It was he who was unfaithful to Cynthia. It was he who turned his back on his mates. It was he who started acting like a c**t.
John's whole life seems to be one of him being besotted (I'm being kind here) with individuals , whether it be St,  Brian or Yoko.  Yoko might have been a bad call, but it
was his call.
Title: Re: Yoko Ono
Post by: Ovi on December 04, 2015, 11:40:33 AM
I can't hate Yoko in the same way I can't hate any of my good mates' girlfriends. I don't particularly like her as a person and I would never listen to her music, but if she made John happy, then I'm happy for him and for them. If John found in her what he was looking for his whole life, then good for them.
Title: Re: Yoko Ono
Post by: nimrod on December 04, 2015, 11:55:32 AM
I can't hate Yoko in the same way I can't hate any of my good mates' girlfriends. I don't particularly like her as a person and I would never listen to her music, but if she made John happy, then I'm happy for him and for them. If John found in her what he was looking for his whole life, then good for them.

Yeah thats how I feel

People go on about him leaving his wife but really he did what people did in those days when the girlfriend got pregnant, he made an honest woman of her (as they used to say) he couldve turned his back on her what with his exciting career but fair do's to him he married her and tried to make it work, (which was nigh on impossible in his situation) this happened to thousands of marriages in those days when blokes 'did the right thing'
Maybe he should never had married her. He obviously didnt love her.

I can see why people hate Yoko of course, but she was the one he wanted to be married to and he was bessoted with her, I cant see that she controlled him, he wasn't a guy to be controlled
Title: Re: Yoko Ono
Post by: Moogmodule on December 04, 2015, 11:59:19 AM
I was never impressed with Yoko. She seemed a manipulative, insecure and damaged personality. John was a screwed up man-child who seemed to need someone to guide him. He chose her. All in all they probably deserved each other.


 
Title: Re: Yoko Ono
Post by: Bingo Bongo on December 08, 2015, 07:37:35 PM
I miss her sweet angelic voice!  4ac
Title: Re: Yoko Ono
Post by: nimrod on December 08, 2015, 10:06:02 PM
I cant stand her voice but theres that track on Double Fantasy called Im Moving On, I just love that one song of hers (although I suspect John wrote it really)

http://youtu.be/yRgxaQZbYHc (http://youtu.be/yRgxaQZbYHc)
Title: Re: Yoko Ono
Post by: Normandie on September 09, 2016, 04:35:56 PM
Sean Lennon responds to haters who slam pic of Yoko with Kim Kardashian

http://www.msn.com/en-us/music/celebrity/sean-lennon-defends-mom-yoko-ono-over-pic-with-kim-kardashian/ar-AAiFnra?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=U218DHP (http://www.msn.com/en-us/music/celebrity/sean-lennon-defends-mom-yoko-ono-over-pic-with-kim-kardashian/ar-AAiFnra?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=U218DHP)

Way to keep it classy, Sean. Profanity always works.
Title: Re: Yoko Ono
Post by: Klang on September 09, 2016, 10:54:33 PM

You know what? People trashed his mother on his FB page. In the first place, I'd say the "profanity" was relatively mild, considering. Next, I think that in the real world many people do use profanity to one extent or another. His dad sure did. Why should Sean be held to some saintly standard? Anyway, use of strong language is a personal choice for everyone, and I personally appreciate those who speak honestly from the heart. In light of what was happening on his FB account, I think he handled it pretty well. Very well, in fact. Just my opinion.

 :)

Title: Re: Yoko Ono
Post by: nimrod on September 09, 2016, 11:31:31 PM
I was taking him seriously till he described Kanye West as an artist
Title: Re: Yoko Ono
Post by: Klang on September 10, 2016, 01:10:10 AM

True. That's another matter altogether.

 :-\

Title: Re: Yoko Ono
Post by: Normandie on September 10, 2016, 03:06:12 AM
You know what? People trashed his mother on his FB page. In the first place, I'd say the "profanity" was relatively mild, considering. Next, I think that in the real world many people do use profanity to one extent or another. His dad sure did. Why should Sean be held to some saintly standard? Anyway, use of strong language is a personal choice for everyone, and I personally appreciate those who speak honestly from the heart. In light of what was happening on his FB account, I think he handled it pretty well. Very well, in fact. Just my opinion.

 :)

Guess we'll have to agree to disagree, Jim.  :) I'm certainly not holding Sean to some "saintly standard." In my opinion, a message has more impact if it's not littered with expletives. Personally, when I hear (or read of) a person using uncouth language I automatically lose a bit of respect for him or her, and that includes myself.

Title: Re: Yoko Ono
Post by: Hello Goodbye on September 10, 2016, 04:08:24 AM
In my opinion, a message has more impact if it's not littered with expletives.

I agree.  There's an art to it.
Title: Re: Yoko Ono
Post by: Hello Goodbye on September 10, 2016, 04:11:46 AM
Now, who are Kim Kardashian and Kanye West?
Title: Re: Yoko Ono
Post by: In My Life on September 10, 2016, 05:33:01 AM
Personally, when I hear (or read of) a person using uncouth language I automatically lose a bit of respect for him or her, and that includes myself.

I agree, Kathy. I think certain words should be reserved for when I run my leg into the corner of the coffee table, which just happened. I understand why Sean was angry but public pages on Facebook are nasty places frequented by trolls and I'm sure he knows that. I found that out when I became an administrator on a Beatles photo page. I thought it would be fun to share my pictures but it mostly wasn't. LOL
Title: Re: Yoko Ono
Post by: Moogmodule on September 10, 2016, 07:29:00 AM
I can understand Sean going off. It's his mum and I've found people can be total pigs on social media. Especially when anonymous.

Equally I can understand people not liking profanity.
Title: Re: Yoko Ono
Post by: Klang on September 10, 2016, 09:44:45 AM

OK, we all have our individual tolerance levels for coarse language, but going back to the article I only see two instances cited. I wouldn't consider it being "littered with expletives." Just honest responses. Emotional perhaps, but he's entitled to that. Parenthetically, I've seen trolling of Yoko on his FB page and Twitter account before. It comes and goes non-stop. I don't blame the guy for getting P.O.'d. I would say that reacting emotionally may just fuel the flames and feed trolls' egos. It would probably be best to avoid that. But again, I appreciate his honest and firm response, expletives or not.

 :)
Title: Re: Yoko Ono
Post by: Klang on September 10, 2016, 01:27:50 PM
Personally, when I hear (or read of) a person using uncouth language I automatically lose a bit of respect for him or her, and that includes myself.

I've been thinking about this. I've known or heard of plenty of reprehensible - and even downright evil - people who never utter an expletive, but I wouldn't trust them to watch my bike for me. You know what I mean. For me, earning or losing respect has more to do with the bigger things one does in life, not so much a little rough language. Just saying.

 :)
Title: Re: Yoko Ono
Post by: tkitna on September 10, 2016, 02:58:25 PM
Kim Kardashian got the short end of that straw. 

Also, I apologize to everybody because I probably use worse language on this board than anybody. 
Title: Re: Yoko Ono
Post by: Normandie on September 10, 2016, 05:49:08 PM


Todd, I don't think you need to apologize; I haven't noticed much bad language on this board by anyone. I guess to me it's an apples-and-oranges kind of thing: This is a more casual forum, and Sean -- who I guess I am holding to a higher standard -- was posting on a very public forum. That was what I took issue with, given that he's a public figure (I think). (Or is he? Yoko certainly is. Is Julian?)

But as Moogmodule pointed out, they were attacking his mother, which would likely strike a nerve with anyone. It sure would with me.

And for what it's worth, I remember a certain trip to St. Paul I took with the kids last summer during which I said the "F" word about 60 times in 20 minutes because of a huge construction project and mislabeled exits.   ;)
Title: Re: Yoko Ono
Post by: Klang on September 10, 2016, 07:12:14 PM

Public forum? I don't know. It's his personal FB page, although I guess he uses it to promote his musical projects. Anyway, a bunch of folks got on there and trashed his mom, so I still cut him slack for being honest and speaking up for her. It's his right to do as he pleases on his own page, especially since it's left open for all kinds of trolling like this.

Like I said before, I've seen this kind of thing going on in the past and he's been pretty restrained. I don't blame him for losing it once in awhile.

Done. Just slap me if I need to shut up now.

 :P
Title: Re: Yoko Ono
Post by: In My Life on September 10, 2016, 10:42:11 PM
For me, earning or losing respect has more to do with the bigger things one does in life, not so much a little rough language. Just saying. :)

This discussion makes me think of George Carlin, who I've always really liked. (Go figure!) He had a routine about words being just words. But when it comes to profanity I guess I am sort of inconsistent. Sometimes it makes me laugh but sometimes it makes me feel like I'm about to get my feelings really hurt. I guess it's all about the context.

Quote from: tkitna
Also, I apologize to everybody because I probably use worse language on this board than anybody.

You're fine Todd.

Now, who are Kim Kardashian and Kanye West?

They are an entity known as Kimya, apparently! Similar to Johnyo, Plinda, Georgttie and Rinmo. 
Title: Re: Yoko Ono
Post by: Moogmodule on September 10, 2016, 10:44:23 PM
Just coincidently I was looking at my Twitter feed and Sean seems to have got into a fruitless argument  over the term "mansplaining". I don't follow him on Twitter but clearly he's everywhere on social media at the moment. He's being polite I should add.
Title: Re: Yoko Ono
Post by: Hello Goodbye on September 10, 2016, 10:50:03 PM
They are an entity known as Kimya, apparently! Similar to Johnyo, Plinda, Georgttie and Rinmo. 

Wha?   ???    Must be some boy band, I reckon.

Title: Re: Yoko Ono
Post by: In My Life on September 10, 2016, 11:02:50 PM
Wha?   ???    Must be some boy band, I reckon.

Something like that.  :)

Now I must go write 50 times "I will preview my messages before posting them."
Title: Re: Yoko Ono
Post by: Hello Goodbye on September 11, 2016, 03:10:13 AM
I was able to dissect it out Kelley.  ;)

Uh oh!  I see I used the term boy band.  Now we're in for it!
Title: Re: Yoko Ono
Post by: In My Life on September 11, 2016, 06:38:06 AM
I was able to dissect it out Kelley.  ;)

Very good, Barry! It's amazing how much havoc one forgotten bracket can cause.

Quote
Uh oh!  I see I used the term boy band.  Now we're in for it!

You're in for it! All I did is quote the term.  ;D
Title: Re: Yoko Ono
Post by: Hello Goodbye on September 12, 2016, 01:52:33 AM
You're in for it! All I did is quote the term.  ;D

I reckon I am.  That's what I get for being a stupid,ridiculous,uncool,ignorant,incomprehensible,unfortunate,untalented,ludicrous Beatle-hater.   ;D
Title: Re: Yoko Ono
Post by: In My Life on September 12, 2016, 02:08:29 AM
I reckon I am.  That's what I get for being a stupid,ridiculous,uncool,ignorant,incomprehensible,unfortunate,untalented,ludicrous Beatle-hater.   ;D

No, I think there was a copy and paste error. It was supposed to say "great and important".  ;)