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Beatles forums => Albums => Topic started by: Brynjar on June 03, 2012, 08:40:14 AM

Title: Is Sgt. Pepper...´ Over-Rated?
Post by: Brynjar on June 03, 2012, 08:40:14 AM
http://www.nme.com/blog/index.php?blog=1&p=12324&title=title_527&more=1&c=1 (http://www.nme.com/blog/index.php?blog=1&p=12324&title=title_527&more=1&c=1)

Discuss.
Title: Re: Is Sgt. Pepper...´ Over-Rated?
Post by: Klang on June 03, 2012, 10:03:46 AM

Disagree. I always enjoy a listen.

Just another self-appointed arbiter spouting off.

Zzzzzzzzzzzz...

 :P

Title: Re: Is Sgt. Pepper...´ Over-Rated?
Post by: ibanez_ax on June 03, 2012, 04:13:04 PM
While it is not my favorite Beatles album it is by no means overrated.

"As such, it's now in a position where it cannot ever be truly loved as an album."  Of course you can. When you strip away everything that's been written about it, it is first and foremost a great album and if accepted as such, nothing else matters.

And don't even get me started about what he said about The Who.  Them's fightin' words!   >:(
Title: Re: Is Sgt. Pepper...´ Over-Rated?
Post by: TomMo on June 09, 2012, 03:23:37 PM
For the record, "Sgt. Pepper's" places third on my list of favorite Beatles albums, after "Rubber Soul" and "Abbey Road". And to be completely candid, I didn't like the album the first two times I listened to it (back in 1967).

All that aside, in some ways it might be the Beatles' most important album. It's true that it didn't live up to the original concept of the album, that of being music created by a fictional band. Only the first two tracks and the reprise support that concept. But then, there was the secondary concept: the idea that under the guise of being a fictional band, the Beatles were free to write and record songs that didn't fit into the Beatles' usual niche. They were free to write in any style or genre of their choosing.

Lennon complained that the album was just another Beatles' album and that any track from Pepper's could easily have been included on "Revolver". I don't see it.

Others have criticized the album over the years. Maurice Gibb, of the Bee Gees, said (at the time the Sgt. Pepper movie was being filmed) that he thought the album was passe'. Even Sean Lennon has panned the album.

In the years immediately after its release, other bands borrowed from the overall sound of Pepper's, which turned out to be the wrong move for them. Examples: "The Rascals", "The Buckinghams", and "Tommy James and the Shondells". The Rascals and the Buckinghams pretty much folded up like a cardboard suitcase soon thereafter. Tommy James squeezed out a few more hits, then did a Houdini from the music business.

Why? Because they wanted to SOUND like Pepper's without investing the time into writing in their own chosen styles. That's not to say that I didn't like those bands. I thought the Rascals' "Once Upon A Dream" had some merit. But these bands went for style over substance. Epic fail.

Bob Dylan has often been hailed as the most influential songwriter of the 60's, and there is some truth to that. But his influence on the Beatles, mostly John, was just that: Influence. John didn't try to sound like Dylan. He freed his mind to add more imagery to his lyrics, yet maintain his own personality in the process.

The bands who truly learned from "Sgt. Pepper" were the ones who began to think outside the box, not reproduce the box.
Title: Re: Is Sgt. Pepper...´ Over-Rated?
Post by: Hombre_de_ningun_lugar on June 24, 2012, 05:43:42 PM
I don't agree with most of the article, but I do agree with the final sentence: "It signalled the beginning of music taking itself far too seriously, and that is something pop may never quite recover from." Maybe that's why I prefer Rubber Soul and Revolver over Sgt. Pepper's (I still love it). However, despite not being their best album (a subjective opinion) it's certainly their most important record because of its impact in rock music (almost an objective fact), and as such it cannot be overrated.
Title: Re: Is Sgt. Pepper...´ Over-Rated?
Post by: RubberSol on June 30, 2012, 01:43:10 AM
Maybe the people who think it's severely overrated never really listened to it.
I don't think this album is overrated. Not their best in my opinion, but it's still a very good album.
Title: Re: Is Sgt. Pepper...´ Over-Rated?
Post by: 7 of 13 on June 30, 2012, 05:41:24 PM
i think the word over-rated is over-rated.
 ;sorry
Title: Re: Is Sgt. Pepper...´ Over-Rated?
Post by: tkitna on June 30, 2012, 11:50:40 PM
In the years immediately after its release, other bands borrowed from the overall sound of Pepper's, which turned out to be the wrong move for them. Examples: "The Rascals", "The Buckinghams", and "Tommy James and the Shondells". The Rascals and the Buckinghams pretty much folded up like a cardboard suitcase soon thereafter. Tommy James squeezed out a few more hits, then did a Houdini from the music business.

The bands who truly learned from "Sgt. Pepper" were the ones who began to think outside the box, not reproduce the box.

Great response TomMo. I enjoyed reading it. I just wanted to add that I would take 'Portraits' from the Buckinghams over Pepper anyday, but thats just me.
Title: Re: Is Sgt. Pepper...´ Over-Rated?
Post by: walrus_21 on June 27, 2013, 09:13:35 PM
I think people confuse "over-rated" and "over-praised."  A lot of people hate the Beatles simply because there's been so much written about them.  They're entitled to that.

Measuring the impact or importance of one work of art versus another is a fool's errand, but I think it is not too much to say that Pepper was the most arresting record of its time.  Pop star after pop star, and people who were there at the time, talk of hearing it everywhere when it was released.  And not too many records get even a mention outside discussions of artifacts from their year of release, yet Pepper continues to be this touchstone.

It's a fine record, and if it inspired awful "concept albums" in its wake, that's not the fault of the Beatles or Pepper.  I think it's one of their best; if some of the songs aren't the strongest, the atmospherics somehow hold it together. 
Title: Re: Is Sgt. Pepper...´ Over-Rated?
Post by: Joost on June 28, 2013, 08:44:43 PM
Yes, it's great. Yes, it's pleasant. Yes, it's an important album that probably changed the course of pop music history more than any album ever did. But is it one of the best albums ever made? Well, can an album that includes at least four songs that are not particularly great (Being for the Benefit of Mr. Kite!, Within You Without You, When I'm Sixty-Four, Good Morning Good Morning) and two versons of the same song really be one of the best albums ever made? I personally think that song material wise, Pepper can't hold a candle to, say, Pet Sounds or Odessey & Oracle.
Title: Re: Is Sgt. Pepper...´ Over-Rated?
Post by: tkitna on July 04, 2013, 12:18:55 AM
Yes, it's great. Yes, it's pleasant. Yes, it's an important album that probably changed the course of pop music history more than any album ever did. But is it one of the best albums ever made? Well, can an album that includes at least four songs that are not particularly great (Being for the Benefit of Mr. Kite!, Within You Without You, When I'm Sixty-Four, Good Morning Good Morning) and two versons of the same song really be one of the best albums ever made? I personally think that song material wise, Pepper can't hold a candle to, say, Pet Sounds or Odessey & Oracle.

I'm going to have to agree with you.
Title: Re: Is Sgt. Pepper...´ Over-Rated?
Post by: Ovi on July 04, 2013, 06:56:36 AM
I can't really agree with Joost's picks of "not so great songs" - love them all, except maybe for 'Good Morning Good Morning', which is just OK.

The album overall is not a personal favourite, but I think it can effortlessly compete with any other album ever made. It's incredible, but then again, hundreads of albums are. It's that "far, far superior than anything ever attempted, by anybody, at any time" tag associated with it that bothers me. But I wouldn't say it's overrated, other than that.

Title: Re: Is Sgt. Pepper...´ Over-Rated?
Post by: Hombre_de_ningun_lugar on July 04, 2013, 01:01:12 PM
Yes, it's great. Yes, it's pleasant. Yes, it's an important album that probably changed the course of pop music history more than any album ever did. But is it one of the best albums ever made? Well, can an album that includes at least four songs that are not particularly great (Being for the Benefit of Mr. Kite!, Within You Without You, When I'm Sixty-Four, Good Morning Good Morning) and two versons of the same song really be one of the best albums ever made? I personally think that song material wise, Pepper can't hold a candle to, say, Pet Sounds or Odessey & Oracle.

I agree that songwriting is not a main force of Sgt. Pepper's, always talking in the context of Beatles albums, of course. The innovation of the album was the sound and production. In that line, I agree that albums like Pet Sounds and Odessey And Oracle (I would add Forever Changes) were written with a more refined pen. I still think that Sgt. Pepper's is a wonderful album with several strong tracks, I still enjoy it when I sit down and listen to it. But I do care a lot about songwriting, that's why I prefer albums like Rubber Soul and Revolver.

By the way, what's not great about "Within You Without You"? It has awesome lyrics, a mystic ambient and I can't get tired of those intense sitars. It's one of my very favorite songs, actually. But beyond a subjective opinion, I think it's a fantastic song in the context of Indian music (I guess that you don't like that genre).
Title: Re: Is Sgt. Pepper...´ Over-Rated?
Post by: Dcazz on July 04, 2013, 01:31:50 PM
I agree with you Hombre. I always liked this album and when I put it on in my truck the first pounding notes just scream at you. I don't think the writing is so far off anything else that they did, it's just the phsycadellic era in full bloom. I saw a documentary on MMT not long ago here and the underlying theme (that no one got!) was that rock (youth culture) was here and part of your lives now. I think SPLHCB could be a prequel album to that The Beatles tried to expand on with MMT. Maybe I'm dreaming!
I have heard SP described as the musical version of The Wizard of OZ when it goes from Black and white to color! Pretty cool I think!
Title: Re: Is Sgt. Pepper...´ Over-Rated?
Post by: Ovi on July 04, 2013, 01:58:18 PM
I agree that songwriting is not a main force of Sgt. Pepper's, always talking in the context of Beatles albums, of course. The innovation of the album was the sound and production. In that line, I agree that albums like Pet Sounds and Odessey And Oracle (I would add Forever Changes) were written with a more refined pen. I still think that Sgt. Pepper's is a wonderful album with several strong tracks, I still enjoy it when I sit down and listen to it. But I do care a lot about songwriting, that's why I prefer albums like Rubber Soul and Revolver.

But I do think that Sgt. Pepper is consistent and well-written. Your last sentence sounds a bit weird to me, because I also care about song-writing a lot, yet I'd take Pepper anyday over 'Revolver' and 'Rubber Soul'. If you like the songs on the latter more than the ones on Pepper, that's fine and I can't argue with that, but I think the band's main objective in 1967 was still writing strong songs, as opposed to atmospheric pieces or conceptual links (with the sole exception of the Reprise). In fact, I think 'Rubber Soul' is the last Beatles album where the song-writing was still so-so, with tracks like 'Think For Yourself', 'Wait', 'What Goes On' and 'Run For Your Life', which are just average to me.

I think the fact that Pepper has been presented as a concept album for so long now, fools the people into thinking that the songs don't stand if taken on their own or that they wouldn't have made it on a Beatles album if not for the "we can do everything!" concept. Me, I just don't see that. I like each and every one of the songs even if taken on their own (again, bar the Reprise). With albums like 'Tommy' or 'The Wall', yes, the abovementioned complaints are true. But I think Pepper is as consistent as any Beatles album before or after it.
Title: Re: Is Sgt. Pepper...´ Over-Rated?
Post by: tkitna on July 05, 2013, 12:35:48 AM
It flows ok as far as albums go. Most of the songs have the same theme for the most part. The only one that truly kills the flow is 'When I'm 64'. Its way out of place here. I hate 'Within You Without You' but it even carries the same type of atmosphere as the rest of the album. I've said it a million times that if the Beatles would have left off 'WYWY' and WI64' and added 'Strawberry Fields' and 'Penny Lane' (if it were possible) then Sgt. Peppers would easily have been the greatest album ever. Its somewhat flawed as it is though.
Title: Re: Is Sgt. Pepper...´ Over-Rated?
Post by: Brynjar on July 05, 2013, 04:23:39 AM
Yeah.. stupid rule, or whatever to call it, to keep singles off the albums back then. And as we all know, George Martin now regrets it.
Title: Re: Is Sgt. Pepper...´ Over-Rated?
Post by: In My Life on July 05, 2013, 04:37:04 AM
I have heard SP described as the musical version of The Wizard of OZ when it goes from Black and white to color! Pretty cool I think!

I like that analogy too, Dave.
Title: Re: Is Sgt. Pepper...´ Over-Rated?
Post by: Klang on July 05, 2013, 09:05:16 AM

Something I really like about 'Pepper' is how no two songs are very much alike, and almost each one is fairly unique in style from anything else done before. For that reason I think that 'WYWY' and '64' are perfect inclusions. I wouldn't change a single thing about the album. Then again, I'm not Sir George Martin. Just another fan.

 :P

Title: Re: Is Sgt. Pepper...´ Over-Rated?
Post by: nimrod on July 05, 2013, 12:19:39 PM
It flows ok as far as albums go. Most of the songs have the same theme for the most part. The only one that truly kills the flow is 'When I'm 64'. Its way out of place here. I hate 'Within You Without You' but it even carries the same type of atmosphere as the rest of the album. I've said it a million times that if the Beatles would have left off 'WYWY' and WI64' and added 'Strawberry Fields' and 'Penny Lane' (if it were possible) then Sgt. Peppers would easily have been the greatest album ever. Its somewhat flawed as it is though.

Ive always thought it a crime that these 2 songs were not on this album

Whether its overrated is entirely subjective, for me its not but for a non Beatles admirer it probably is, but thats art isnt it.

I personally dont agree that the 3 albums mentioned earlier were superior song writing wise. But again this is subjective, if Im not a Beach Boys fan Im hardly going to rave over Pet Sounds.

One thing that cant be argued is the fact that it was probably THE most important and influential pop/rock album ever
Title: Re: Is Sgt. Pepper...´ Over-Rated?
Post by: Dcazz on July 05, 2013, 01:22:48 PM
Ive always thought it a crime that these 2 songs were not on this album

Whether its overrated is entirely subjective, for me its not but for a non Beatles admirer it probably is, but thats art isnt it.

I personally dont agree that the 3 albums mentioned earlier were superior song writing wise. But again this is subjective, if Im not a Beach Boys fan Im hardly going to rave over Pet Sounds.

One thing that cant be argued is the fact that it was probably THE most important and influential pop/rock album ever
Title: Re: Is Sgt. Pepper...´ Over-Rated?
Post by: Dcazz on July 05, 2013, 09:20:34 PM

I guess my post didn't make it!
What I said was... I think SFF and PL should have been included too. However... I don't have anything against WYWY or WI64. I would have rather seen SLH left off the album, nice song that it is.
Title: Re: Is Sgt. Pepper...´ Over-Rated?
Post by: Hello Goodbye on July 05, 2013, 09:39:00 PM
Why leave out she's Leaving Home?

Anyway, that's how 1967 was.  The Beatles scored well with Penny Lane and Strawberry Fields Forever on the hit parade in the spring.  When we first heard the Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band LP a few months later, all the songs were new and amazing.  We couldn't stop listening to the album.

But this is from the perspective of someone who lived through all this.  I appreciate and understand differing opinions from the younger members who view the LP retrospectively.
Title: Re: Is Sgt. Pepper...´ Over-Rated?
Post by: Dcazz on July 05, 2013, 11:00:22 PM
Why leave out she's Leaving Home?

Anyway, that's how 1967 was.  The Beatles scored well with Penny Lane and Strawberry Fields Forever on the hit parade in the spring.  When we first heard the Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band LP a few months later, all the songs were new and amazing.  We couldn't stop listening to the album.

But this is from the perspective of someone who lived through all this.  I appreciate and understand differing opinions from the younger members who view the LP retrospectively.
It's just not my favorite song. I appreciate the soap opera thing Paul did , the harmonies are fantastic but... I think WYWY and WI64 are better to listen to IMHO.
Title: Re: Is Sgt. Pepper...´ Over-Rated?
Post by: Hello Goodbye on July 05, 2013, 11:20:17 PM
It's just not my favorite song. I appreciate the soap opera thing Paul did , the harmonies are fantastic but... I think WYWY and WI64 are better to listen to IMHO.


See, that's what I'm trying to say, Dave.  Individual opinions of the songs chosen for the album matter little in the noteworthiness of an album.

Anyway, have you ever noticed the difference in the MONO and STEREO versions?


The Beatles - She's Leaving Home (2009 Stereo Remaster) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQNAGAbi3G0#)


The Beatles - She's Leaving Home (2009 Mono Remaster) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uo2KPacj7qs#)
Title: Re: Is Sgt. Pepper...´ Over-Rated?
Post by: Dcazz on July 05, 2013, 11:33:05 PM
See, that's what I'm trying to say, Dave.  Individual opinions of the songs chosen for the album matter little in the noteworthiness of an album.

Anyway, have you ever noticed the difference in the MONO and STEREO versions?


The Beatles - She's Leaving Home (2009 Stereo Remaster) ([url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQNAGAbi3G0#[/url])Oh, I agree completely! I'd even like to her Only A Northern Song in the mix. No matter what I think it's a great album. Just a what If!


The Beatles - She's Leaving Home (2009 Mono Remaster) ([url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uo2KPacj7qs#[/url])
Title: Re: Is Sgt. Pepper...´ Over-Rated?
Post by: Dcazz on July 05, 2013, 11:40:47 PM
I definitely like the mono remix the best. The speeds better and the sounds much crisper.
Title: Re: Is Sgt. Pepper...´ Over-Rated?
Post by: Hello Goodbye on July 05, 2013, 11:48:32 PM
The MONO version is sped up.  Just the way When I'm Sixty-Four is.

Here's When I'm Sixty-Four the way it was recorded in the key of C major...


When I'm Sixty Four original (In the key of C major) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDt26gJYVB4#ws)


 
Title: Re: Is Sgt. Pepper...´ Over-Rated?
Post by: Dcazz on July 06, 2013, 12:00:19 AM
The MONO version is sped up.  Just the way When I'm Sixty-Four is.

Here's When I'm Sixty-Four the way it was recorded in the key of C major...


When I'm Sixty Four original (In the key of C major) ([url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDt26gJYVB4#ws[/url])
It's funny(to me), I've heard these two versions before and I think I like the slow WI64 better. It's more laid back and in less of a hurry as I will be when  I'm that old! I'm getting there now!
Title: Re: Is Sgt. Pepper...´ Over-Rated?
Post by: Dcazz on July 06, 2013, 12:05:56 AM
Why leave out she's Leaving Home?

Anyway, that's how 1967 was.  The Beatles scored well with Penny Lane and Strawberry Fields Forever on the hit parade in the spring.  When we first heard the Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band LP a few months later, all the songs were new and amazing.  We couldn't stop listening to the album.

But this is from the perspective of someone who lived through all this.  I appreciate and understand differing opinions from the younger members who view the LP retrospectively.
I have a vivid memory of my mother saying "what's happened to them?" when we first saw the video of Strawberry Fields Forever! Lol!
Title: Re: Is Sgt. Pepper...´ Over-Rated?
Post by: Hello Goodbye on July 06, 2013, 12:11:54 AM
It's funny(to me), I've heard these two versions before and I think I like the slow WI64 better. It's more laid back and in less of a hurry as I will be when  I'm that old! I'm getting there now!


Right.  The song was sped up to the key of D-flat major on both the STEREO and MONO albums...


The Beatles- 09- When I'm Sixty Four (2009 Mono Remaster) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wwkd2YFX_S0#)




Sounds a bit like this to me...


Alvin and the Chipmunks- Christmas song[original] (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hAUWyp0qzs#)



 ;D
Title: Re: Is Sgt. Pepper...´ Over-Rated?
Post by: Dcazz on July 06, 2013, 12:16:08 AM
 :)
Title: Re: Is Sgt. Pepper...´ Over-Rated?
Post by: In My Life on July 06, 2013, 12:43:45 AM

Anyway, have you ever noticed the difference in the MONO and STEREO versions?


That was one of the first things that really struck me when I got the mono box set. Paul's vocal just sounded strange on it. I really like this song. It hit home with me in many ways a few years ago and made me realize I had to make some changes in my life. But I'm kind of a lyrics person.
Title: Re: Is Sgt. Pepper...´ Over-Rated?
Post by: Dcazz on July 06, 2013, 12:59:24 AM
That was one of the first things that really struck me when I got the mono box set. Paul's vocal just sounded strange on it. I really like this song. It hit home with me in many ways a few years ago and made me realize I had to make some changes in my life. But I'm kind of a lyrics person.
I hope your not losing your hair!
Title: Re: Is Sgt. Pepper...´ Over-Rated?
Post by: In My Life on July 06, 2013, 01:04:27 AM
I hope your not losing your hair!

I was talking about "She's Leaving Home" goofy! But I did get some of it cut off today.  :P
Title: Re: Is Sgt. Pepper...´ Over-Rated?
Post by: Dcazz on July 06, 2013, 01:16:49 AM
Oh, I see! I bet you look great! Must feel good in this heat!
Title: Re: Is Sgt. Pepper...´ Over-Rated?
Post by: In My Life on July 06, 2013, 01:25:13 AM
Oh, I see! I bet you look great! Must feel good in this heat!

It was only a little but it does feel better. I still look like a hippie chick, as my cousin calls me.  ;D
Title: Re: Is Sgt. Pepper...´ Over-Rated?
Post by: Dcazz on July 06, 2013, 01:31:17 AM
It was only a little but it does feel better. I still look like a hippie chick, as my cousin calls me.  ;D
I like it.
Title: Re: Is Sgt. Pepper...´ Over-Rated?
Post by: Hombre_de_ningun_lugar on July 07, 2013, 04:14:01 PM
I have heard SP described as the musical version of The Wizard of OZ when it goes from Black and white to color! Pretty cool I think!

That's a nice comparisson. Sgt. Pepper's is technology put at the service of music, the problem is when music is put at the service of technology, as it happens nowadays.
Title: Re: Is Sgt. Pepper...´ Over-Rated?
Post by: Hombre_de_ningun_lugar on July 07, 2013, 05:04:35 PM
But I do think that Sgt. Pepper is consistent and well-written. Your last sentence sounds a bit weird to me, because I also care about song-writing a lot, yet I'd take Pepper anyday over 'Revolver' and 'Rubber Soul'. If you like the songs on the latter more than the ones on Pepper, that's fine and I can't argue with that, but I think the band's main objective in 1967 was still writing strong songs, as opposed to atmospheric pieces or conceptual links (with the sole exception of the Reprise). In fact, I think 'Rubber Soul' is the last Beatles album where the song-writing was still so-so, with tracks like 'Think For Yourself', 'Wait', 'What Goes On' and 'Run For Your Life', which are just average to me.

I think the fact that Pepper has been presented as a concept album for so long now, fools the people into thinking that the songs don't stand if taken on their own or that they wouldn't have made it on a Beatles album if not for the "we can do everything!" concept. Me, I just don't see that. I like each and every one of the songs even if taken on their own (again, bar the Reprise). With albums like 'Tommy' or 'The Wall', yes, the abovementioned complaints are true. But I think Pepper is as consistent as any Beatles album before or after it.

See, I think that Sgt. Pepper's is very consistent, even more than Rubber Soul and Revolver. In my opinion Sgt. Pepper's actually has no fillers; "When I'm Sixty-Four" is a very good track to me, for example, despite being different from the rest of the album but still nice and somehow it works. On the other hand, I think that Rubber Soul and Revolver have some few fillers: "What Goes On", "Wait", "Run For Your Life", "And Your Bird Can Sing", "Doctor Robert", I think they're far from the Beatles' best.

So consistence, in my opinion, is not a problem of Sgt. Pepper's. The problem is that consistence is not fundamentally given by songwriting but by production. If I imagine the Sgt. Pepper's songs produced in a simpler way as done in Rubber Soul, just few songs would have been special in their own way. The melodies in Sgt. Pepper's are as great as always, but most of the lyrics have nothing interesting to say; I would save the mystic words of "Within You Without You", the psychedelic landscapes of "Lucy In The Sky With Diamonds", the intelligence of "With A Little Help From My Friends" and the non-sense but epic spirit of "A Day In The Life"; but most of the words can't handle a candle to "Norwegian Wood", "Nowhere Man", "In My Life", "Girl", "Eleanor Rigby", "I'm Only Sleeping", "For No One" or "Tomorrow Never Knows", just to name some examples. Sgt. Pepper's neither gives us immortal ballads such like "Michelle" or "Here, There And Everywhere", even the smart irony of songs like "Drive My Car" or "Taxman" is hard to find in Sgt. Pepper's. In fact I think that Rubber Soul and Revolver are John and Paul's peaks as songwriters, respectively, while Sgt. Pepper's is probably the peak of George Martin as producer.

At the end of the day, every opinion depends on personal tastes, but trying to be objective I would say that Sgt. Pepper's charm is superficial, rapidly easy to get, while the other two mentioned albums have a special deep spirit that requires time and several listens in order to touch the listener.
Title: Re: Is Sgt. Pepper...´ Over-Rated?
Post by: Ovi on July 07, 2013, 05:50:46 PM
Agree with you on 'When I'm Sixty-Four' and I'll go as far as saying that it is a necessary track there, that - along with 'She's Leaving Home' - provides a little  glimpse of reality, a short wake-up call, a celebration of day-to-day little pleasures. The Beatles were not dumb guys, and the track was in no way put there by mistake, in my opinion. Works just as 'Sloop John B' on 'Pet Sounds' - the narrator's break of inner-self-analysis, in favor of an outer experience (that eventually turns out to have an emotional impact on him after all).

I get what you mean in your second paragraph and you expressed your thoughts very well. You mention the fact that few songs would've been special if not for the adventurous production. But I think, in some cases, this is a moot point, because they weren't. Ask yourself this: would John have attempted to write a song based on a circus poster if not knowing that he'll be able to (try to) create a somewhat circus-like atmosphere? They knew that George Martin was not about to shy away from trying anything in the studio and they kept that in mind while composing. Nobody expects 'Lucy In The Sky' to work, given a simpler arrangement, because that's not the point of it. Never was. Again, if you like the approach of RS and Revolver better, that's fine. But Sgt Pepper is a totally different story and it must not be downgraded based on '65/'66 criterias.


Title: Re: Is Sgt. Pepper...´ Over-Rated?
Post by: Hombre_de_ningun_lugar on July 07, 2013, 07:13:48 PM
Maybe we don't think very different with regard to the point that those different albums are not comparable, because their productions are very different. But I do think that the songs can be comparable at least when we talk about the lyrics. I think a good song is good by itself, and it's really great when its greatness doesn't depend too much on production details. But I don't see the heavy production of Sgt. Pepper's as a mistake, it's actually a merit, I just think that its songwriting is not as good as in those previous albums. The songs in Rubber Soul and Revolver were more meaningful in my opinion and they didn't need hours and hours in studio to sound great.
Title: Re: Is Sgt. Pepper...´ Over-Rated?
Post by: Hello Goodbye on July 07, 2013, 11:49:16 PM
On the other hand, I think that Rubber Soul and Revolver have some few fillers: "What Goes On", "Wait", "Run For Your Life", "And Your Bird Can Sing", "Doctor Robert", I think they're far from the Beatles' best.

Some of us here strongly feel otherwise.



At the end of the day, every opinion depends on personal tastes, but trying to be objective I would say that Sgt. Pepper's charm is superficial, rapidly easy to get, while the other two mentioned albums have a special deep spirit that requires time and several listens in order to touch the listener.

I appreciate your attempt at objectivity.
Title: Re: Is Sgt. Pepper...´ Over-Rated?
Post by: Hello Goodbye on July 07, 2013, 11:50:21 PM
Agree with you on 'When I'm Sixty-Four' and I'll go as far as saying that it is a necessary track there, that - along with 'She's Leaving Home' - provides a little  glimpse of reality, a short wake-up call, a celebration of day-to-day little pleasures. The Beatles were not dumb guys, and the track was in no way put there by mistake, in my opinion. Works just as 'Sloop John B' on 'Pet Sounds' - the narrator's break of inner-self-analysis, in favor of an outer experience (that eventually turns out to have an emotional impact on him after all).

I get what you mean in your second paragraph and you expressed your thoughts very well. You mention the fact that few songs would've been special if not for the adventurous production. But I think, in some cases, this is a moot point, because they weren't. Ask yourself this: would John have attempted to write a song based on a circus poster if not knowing that he'll be able to (try to) create a somewhat circus-like atmosphere? They knew that George Martin was not about to shy away from trying anything in the studio and they kept that in mind while composing. Nobody expects 'Lucy In The Sky' to work, given a simpler arrangement, because that's not the point of it. Never was. Again, if you like the approach of RS and Revolver better, that's fine. But Sgt Pepper is a totally different story and it must not be downgraded based on '65/'66 criterias.




Well put, Ovi.
Title: Re: Is Sgt. Pepper...´ Over-Rated?
Post by: Hombre_de_ningun_lugar on July 08, 2013, 01:37:17 AM
Some of us here strongly feel otherwise.

I'm not saying they're bad songs, I'm just saying that they're not among the Beatles' best, in my opinion, of course. Do you think that all the Beatles songs are at the same level? Don't you find some songs to be better than others?
Title: Re: Is Sgt. Pepper...´ Over-Rated?
Post by: Hello Goodbye on July 08, 2013, 02:46:50 AM
I'm not saying they're bad songs, I'm just saying that they're not among the Beatles' best, in my opinion, of course. Do you think that all the Beatles songs are at the same level? Don't you find some songs to be better than others?


Of course I do, but I wouldn't call those songs you mentioned "fillers."  Well, maybe with exception of What Goes On, but that was good song for Ringo and he sang it well.

As an example, we discussed the merits of And Your Bird Can Sing at length in this thread:  http://www.dmbeatles.com/forums/index.php?topic=15013.0 (http://www.dmbeatles.com/forums/index.php?topic=15013.0)

There were a few noteworthy innovations that can be credited to The Beatles in that song.  It was certainly an example of one of the earliest uses of harmony guitar in a rock recording.
Title: Re: Is Sgt. Pepper...´ Over-Rated?
Post by: Hombre_de_ningun_lugar on July 08, 2013, 04:18:51 PM
Of course I do, but I wouldn't call those songs you mentioned "fillers."  Well, maybe with exception of What Goes On, but that was good song for Ringo and he sang it well.

As an example, we discussed the merits of And Your Bird Can Sing at length in this thread:  [url]http://www.dmbeatles.com/forums/index.php?topic=15013.0[/url] ([url]http://www.dmbeatles.com/forums/index.php?topic=15013.0[/url])

There were a few noteworthy innovations that can be credited to The Beatles in that song.  It was certainly an example of one of the earliest uses of harmony guitar in a rock recording.


I actually like all those songs, I just think they're fillers in the context of those albums, which are my very favorite ones. But that's just my opinion.

About "And Your Bird Can Sing", I've never been a big fan of that song. It has a nice guitar work and it certainly brought some innovation as most of Revolver, but the song itself, especially the lyrics, is quite silly. I guess I expect much more from John Lennon, words like those from "In My Life" or "Tomorrow Never Knows". This doesn't mean that I cannot enjoy the song.
Title: Re: Is Sgt. Pepper...´ Over-Rated?
Post by: Dcazz on July 08, 2013, 09:10:50 PM
I actually like all those songs, I just think they're fillers in the context of those albums, which are my very favorite ones. But that's just my opinion.

About "And Your Bird Can Sing", I've never been a big fan of that song. It has a nice guitar work and it certainly brought some innovation as most of Revolver, but the song itself, especially the lyrics, is quite silly. I guess I expect much more from John Lennon, words like those from "In My Life" or "Tomorrow Never Knows". This doesn't mean that I cannot enjoy the song.
I think Paul stated that a lot of the earlier album songs were considered "working songs". I like all the songs on Sgt. P some more than others but I think all in all the formula for them to put together an album that changed everything the working songs just upped the bar for me by leaps and bounds!
Title: Re: Is Sgt. Pepper...´ Over-Rated?
Post by: Joost on July 08, 2013, 09:23:58 PM
I can't really agree with Joost's picks of "not so great songs"

Excellent. This is a discussion board, wouldn't it be incredibly boring if we'd all agree about everything?  ;D
Title: Re: Is Sgt. Pepper...´ Over-Rated?
Post by: tkitna on July 08, 2013, 11:47:58 PM
The Beatles were not dumb guys, and the track was in no way put there by mistake, in my opinion.

I understand what your saying Ovi, but even though it was put there on purpose, that doesnt mean it was the best decision. I suppose if you like the song then its great that its there, but its just so different in composition and atmosphere compared to the rest of the album that it stands out like a stain on a white shirt to me. 'She's Leaving Home' was enough of a break for me without having a 20's themed song that was just galaxies away from what the rest of the album was. Just my opinion I guess.

Quote
I get what you mean in your second paragraph and you expressed your thoughts very well. You mention the fact that few songs would've been special if not for the adventurous production. But I think, in some cases, this is a moot point, because they weren't. Ask yourself this: would John have attempted to write a song based on a circus poster if not knowing that he'll be able to (try to) create a somewhat circus-like atmosphere?

The funny thing is that 'Being For The Benefit Of Mr. Kite' was indeed a gamble. John wrote a simple song with lyrics lifted from a poster and handed it to George Martin and told him to fix it. George Martin was in doubt that he could for the longest time. If he couldnt, i'm sure the song would have been shelved and something else added. John was never happy with it anyways.
Title: Re: Is Sgt. Pepper...´ Over-Rated?
Post by: Hombre_de_ningun_lugar on July 09, 2013, 05:18:09 AM
I understand what your saying Ovi, but even though it was put there on purpose, that doesnt mean it was the best decision. I suppose if you like the song then its great that its there, but its just so different in composition and atmosphere compared to the rest of the album that it stands out like a stain on a white shirt to me. 'She's Leaving Home' was enough of a break for me without having a 20's themed song that was just galaxies away from what the rest of the album was. Just my opinion I guess.

It's true that "When I'm Sixty-Four" has some 20's spirit, but the production makes it sound kinda trippy actually. I was always amazed with the backing vocals of the track, those voices sound quite weird, and I think they make the song. I like the song, maybe not among the very best ones, but I think it fits quite well in the album, even when it comes after a completely different song like "Within You Without You".
Title: Re: Is Sgt. Pepper...´ Over-Rated?
Post by: tkitna on July 09, 2013, 07:16:36 AM
It's true that "When I'm Sixty-Four" has some 20's spirit, but the production makes it sound kinda trippy actually. I was always amazed with the backing vocals of the track, those voices sound quite weird, and I think they make the song. I like the song, maybe not among the very best ones, but I think it fits quite well in the album, even when it comes after a completely different song like "Within You Without You".

I like the song too when we are talking about it in a singular fashion, but I think its still a horrible fit on that album. We have some good to great psychedelic music followed by an indian piece that has more then enough strangeness to it that allows it its place on the record, and then we have something Bing Crosby should be singing. Its always been a WTF moment in the album for me ever since I was really young. Sgt. Peppers is an awesome album and an important album, but its not the greatest album ever and I truly feel that 'When I'm 64' is the contributing reason for that. I'm beating a dead horse with my opinion and I need to stop, but I just cant overemphasize how distracting that one song is to the flow of the record in its entirety.
Title: Re: Is Sgt. Pepper...´ Over-Rated?
Post by: Dcazz on July 09, 2013, 10:13:51 PM
It does give you the feeling of a band at the park! being written and recorded in late 66 it was way before the Sgt. pepper concept was hatched. Maybe just lucky.
Title: Re: Is Sgt. Pepper...´ Over-Rated?
Post by: nimrod on July 09, 2013, 11:16:45 PM
I like the song too when we are talking about it in a singular fashion, but I think its still a horrible fit on that album. We have some good to great psychedelic music followed by an indian piece that has more then enough strangeness to it that allows it its place on the record, and then we have something Bing Crosby should be singing. Its always been a WTF moment in the album for me ever since I was really young. Sgt. Peppers is an awesome album and an important album, but its not the greatest album ever and I truly feel that 'When I'm 64' is the contributing reason for that. I'm beating a dead horse with my opinion and I need to stop, but I just cant overemphasize how distracting that one song is to the flow of the record in its entirety.

I understand where your coming from totally, I like the song ...........but it doesnt fit imo, the 2 Id be happy not to have on the album are;
64' and She's Leaving Home (never play it, its too slow for my liking) replace these 2 with PL & SFF and you have the worlds best album.  (its all opinions though) :D
Title: Re: Is Sgt. Pepper...´ Over-Rated?
Post by: tkitna on July 10, 2013, 12:50:33 AM
I understand where your coming from totally, I like the song ...........but it doesnt fit imo, the 2 Id be happy not to have on the album are;
64' and She's Leaving Home (never play it, its too slow for my liking) replace these 2 with PL & SFF and you have the worlds best album.  (its all opinions though) :D

I started thinking today that if 'When I'm 64' wasnt on the record, would I be targeting 'She's Leaving Home' just as bad? Hmmm.
Title: Re: Is Sgt. Pepper...´ Over-Rated?
Post by: Hello Goodbye on July 10, 2013, 02:23:35 AM
Whew!  So far no one picked on my favorite song on the album.   :)
Title: Re: Is Sgt. Pepper...´ Over-Rated?
Post by: In My Life on July 10, 2013, 03:02:28 AM
Whew!  So far no one picked on my favorite song on the album.   :)

That's because they know they won't get past your door.
Title: Re: Is Sgt. Pepper...´ Over-Rated?
Post by: Hello Goodbye on July 10, 2013, 04:40:37 AM
(http://i52.tinypic.com/34ffgwx.jpg)
Title: Re: Is Sgt. Pepper...´ Over-Rated?
Post by: nimrod on July 10, 2013, 09:09:18 AM
Whew!  So far no one picked on my favorite song on the album.   :)

just fillin the cracks barry
Title: Re: Is Sgt. Pepper...´ Over-Rated?
Post by: Hello Goodbye on July 11, 2013, 01:57:04 AM
That's because they know they won't get past your door.


just fillin the cracks barry


(http://i44.tinypic.com/2jdkvbk.jpg)





(http://i42.tinypic.com/2i87uyv.jpg)


Yellow Submarine (ending) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKhD49hzfH4#)
0:20



 ;D
Title: Re: Is Sgt. Pepper...´ Over-Rated?
Post by: Casbah on July 15, 2013, 07:03:09 AM
I had to give this topic a lot of thought.  First, I love every song on the album. It's a great, amazing record.
The problem I have with Pepper is not enough rock on the album. Sgt Pepper is good and I guess there is just enough rock in Getting Better and of course the reprise but every album by the Beatles previously, had rock. So it's not a go to album for me if I'm looking to rock out with the Beatles.

But, up till the late 80s, we listened to music differently. Play one side, flip the record or tape, play the other side. (I actually had SPLHCB on 8-Track). Much more linear. As a linear album, it's one of the best ever made. Kicks off with SP, weaves in and out and takes you on a nice journey, lots of different musical styles, then literally blows your mind out with DITL, one of the most powerful songs ever written.

It just works, really well. So no my opinion is it's not overrated at all.

On another note, knowing what we know about what was going on during this period from all the books and Anthology, It's a little sad realizing this was the beginning of the end for the Beatles.
Title: Re: Is Sgt. Pepper...´ Over-Rated?
Post by: Dcazz on July 18, 2013, 08:45:39 PM
It seems to me that the controversy of SP really revolves around just a few songs. She's Leaving Home, Within You, Without You, When I'm 64 and maybe Good Morning, Good Morning ( because they left out George and Ringo).
The first 5 songs are actually IMHO some of the best songs ever put on record (Fixing a Hole being my favorite) by the Beatles or anyone else. The problem comes when the three first mentioned are so polarized in different directions that you get thrown for a bit of a loop as all of a sudden your listening to a soap opera, the Bagdad Gita (?) and then back to a different time altogether with WI64. The album then resumes with Lovely Rita, GMGM and who could argue that closing the album with A Day In The Life is almost beyond comprehension.
I think the three songs actually make the album interesting. If they left them off it might be OK but it wouldn't be being listened to or discussed in the same way. There would be no argument.
All in all I think it's one of the greatest albums ever made and I still get a huge charge out of it when I que it up and get those first pounding notes from SPLHCB. I'm going to listen in the am.
Title: Re: Is Sgt. Pepper...´ Over-Rated?
Post by: beatlesforever12 on July 19, 2013, 10:53:38 PM
i personally think every thing they put out is an inspired masterpiece
i agree that in a way sgt pepper isn't the best beatles album but i have a lotta love for it
Title: Re: Is Sgt. Pepper...´ Over-Rated?
Post by: nimrod on July 20, 2013, 12:15:41 PM
To critique a Beatles album without a view to, and appreciation for, its historical context is, I believe, to do it a disservice.
SGT. PEPPER'S is not just a loosely-connected collection of thirteen well-made pop songs from 1967 - this album set the standard for studio craft, and the wider possibilities of pop as an artistic medium. Simply put, it raised the bar (by a wide increment), and let developing artists and the industry see that rock could be made to do much more than it had to that point.
To a large degree, to properly appreciate this album, you "had to be there."

THE most important track imo is the awesome "A Day in the Life." This last masterful, moving album closer might seem somewhat unremarkable now (especially to younger listeners), but its contrasting sections, time changes and greater length that moved beyond the usual two to three-minute radio-friendly format were bold, brave developments for its day. Pop music changed forever with that one track.
Title: Re: Is Sgt. Pepper...´ Over-Rated?
Post by: Hombre_de_ningun_lugar on July 20, 2013, 05:33:52 PM
To critique a Beatles album without a view to, and appreciation for, its historical context is, I believe, to do it a disservice.
SGT. PEPPER'S is not just a loosely-connected collection of thirteen well-made pop songs from 1967 - this album set the standard for studio craft, and the wider possibilities of pop as an artistic medium. Simply put, it raised the bar (by a wide increment), and let developing artists and the industry see that rock could be made to do much more than it had to that point.
To a large degree, to properly appreciate this album, you "had to be there."

THE most important track imo is the awesome "A Day in the Life." This last masterful, moving album closer might seem somewhat unremarkable now (especially to younger listeners), but its contrasting sections, time changes and greater length that moved beyond the usual two to three-minute radio-friendly format were bold, brave developments for its day. Pop music changed forever with that one track.

I agree, and I consider Sgt. Pepper's as the most important Beatles' album, if not their best. And yes, rock/pop music changed forever, opening new directions, but according to my music taste I don't think that influence was all positive. I like experimentation, but I believe in the power of individual short songs more than the magic of long integrated albums. I love much more the music that led to Sgt. Pepper's than what came after this album; in fact, my very favorite period of rock music is 1965-1967.
Title: Re: Is Sgt. Pepper...´ Over-Rated?
Post by: Strawberry Field on September 01, 2013, 05:58:53 PM
Yes it is overrated. Way overrated. A Hard Day's Night, Rubber Soul, Revolver, The White Album, Abbey Road and *maybe* even Let it Be are all better. But it's still a Beatles album, which means it's still friggin' great. All original Beatles albums are great.
Title: Re: Is Sgt. Pepper...´ Over-Rated?
Post by: Ovi on September 01, 2013, 06:59:31 PM
I still don't think it's over-rated, because even those who do admit that it's a great/good album. As I said few pages ago, the only people who over-rate it are those who proclaim it to be the best album ever, miles ahead of anything attempted by anybody at any time. I think it's an incredible album, as good as any other Beatles album you'd want to compare it to.

And to prefer the disjointed, flawed, badly-sequenced, amateurishly over-produced at times album that is 'Let It Be' over it? No way.
Title: Re: Is Sgt. Pepper...´ Over-Rated?
Post by: Hombre_de_ningun_lugar on September 02, 2013, 01:08:39 PM
I still don't think it's over-rated, because even those who do admit that it's a great/good album. As I said few pages ago, the only people who over-rate it are those who proclaim it to be the best album ever, miles ahead of anything attempted by anybody at any time. I think it's an incredible album, as good as any other Beatles album you'd want to compare it to.

And to prefer the disjointed, flawed, badly-sequenced, amateurishly over-produced at times album that is 'Let It Be' over it? No way.

Yes, I think that Sgt. Pepper's is over-rated only by people who can't open their ears to other music than the Beatles. Sgt. Pepper's is probably the most famous Beatles album, and many people tend to underestimate highly popular albums. Another reason of why some people consider it's over-rated may be the very lower recognition given to other contemporaneous albums with perhaps higher artistic merits, so it would be over-rated only in comparison. Pet Sounds gained recognition with time, but other fantastic albums like Forever Changes or Odessey And Oracle are only praised by people who is very close to the music world.
Title: Re: Is Sgt. Pepper...´ Over-Rated?
Post by: Ovi on September 02, 2013, 03:03:27 PM
Another reason of why some people consider it's over-rated may be the very lower recognition given to other contemporaneous albums with perhaps higher artistic merits, so it would be over-rated only in comparison. Pet Sounds gained recognition with time, but other fantastic albums like Forever Changes or Odessey And Oracle are only praised by people who is very close to the music world.

Yeah, I agree, but what can you do? It's just the way things are. The same can be said about those who worship The Beatles, but completely ignore fantastic contemporary bands like The Kinks, The Beach Boys or The Velvet Underground.
Title: Re: Is Sgt. Pepper...´ Over-Rated?
Post by: Strawberry Field on September 02, 2013, 09:20:23 PM
Yes, I think that Sgt. Pepper's is over-rated only by people who can't open their ears to other music than the Beatles.

My favorite band is the Beach Boys. And I'm a Motown addict. And I love jazz. And I love Frank Sinatra. Etc, etc. I still think it's a little overrated but nonetheless Sgt. Pepper is a great album. But it's not the second coming of Christ.
Title: Re: Is Sgt. Pepper...´ Over-Rated?
Post by: oldbrownshoe on October 06, 2013, 07:32:26 AM
Thirty years ago I'd probably have said 'Yes', but in 2013 I think the answer is 'No, Sgt. Pepper's is actually slightly underrated'.
That said, it's not a record I return to too often, having last listened to it on the 40th anniversary in 2007.
Title: Re: Is Sgt. Pepper...´ Over-Rated?
Post by: NYSPORTSFAN on November 07, 2013, 01:14:23 AM
Revolver was notable for experimenting with Eastern influences, tape loops, sampling, backward music, baroque pop sections, and rougher guitar parts. You have to remember this was 1966 and this was before The Doors or Pink Floyd had recorded their debut albums

One common criticism of Sgt. Pepper that this album was released after albums like Absolutely Free, Velvet Underground or Younger Than Yesterday which of course did nothing on the pop charts. This of course does nothing to tarnish Sgt. Peppers influence as none of the albums mentioned have hardly anything in common with Sgt. Pepper.

In reality Sgt. Pepper combines many of Revolver musical experimentations with bombastic presentation and its focus on recurring melodies and fanfares creating an album unlike any before which in turn influenced everything from prog rock to Brit-pop

The gatefold album cover to the lyrics on the inside sleeve and cover art featuring iconic movie stars and other famous people with the Beatles dressed in their band costumes

The influence of Sgt. Peppers on the progressive rock movement extends past rock heavy weight bands Genesis, Yes and Pink Floyd, King Crimson, to a lot of contemporary progressive rock bands today. The biographical elements of Big Big Train's English Electric parts 1 and 2 and use of brass instruments on these albums hacks back to the Sgt. Peppers album. The Flower Kings suite, Garden of Dreams, on the album Flower Power, has an orchestral intro at the start and then is reprised near the end of the suite. The silence at the end of A Day in the Life followed by the voice loop just when you think the song is finished inspired many bands to use voices, as effects, in their songs.
Title: Re: Is Sgt. Pepper...´ Over-Rated?
Post by: Moogmodule on December 16, 2013, 11:41:40 AM
At the risk of sounding pompous so early in my time on this forum, I view pepper now as a bit like what Falstaff was to Verdi. Verdi had much bigger "hits" and the lack of standout arias in Falstaff means its not as popularly well regarded as his other more famous operas. But it's artistic merit shines through via short passages in ensembles and snatches of great moments. Similarly the songs on Pepper don't always seem to rise to great heights. Except for A Day in the Life of course, which is magnificent.  But there are great moments distributed throughout the album. The song structures and harmonics are varied on each song, while not having necessarily the easier hooks of previous works.  The production gives it a sense of cohesiveness. In that sense Pepper is one album where the individual songs don't work as well as individual songs off other albums. I tend to listen to Pepper as a whole. To me it sounds different to any other Beatle album and I disagree with John that you could have taken any song off it and put it on any other album.

The mix of styles from the more trippy Lucy in the Sky to the music hall When I'm 64 remind me of old talk shows that might have Paul Anka singing one minute then Led Zeppelin. It was meant to cover the entertainment waterfront.

Still not my favourite Beatles album. But I think in reacting against overrating it we don't want to underrate it either.
Title: Re: Is Sgt. Pepper...´ Over-Rated?
Post by: In My Life on December 16, 2013, 11:32:05 PM
The mix of styles from the more trippy Lucy in the Sky to the music hall When I'm 64 remind me of old talk shows that might have Paul Anka singing one minute then Led Zeppelin. It was meant to cover the entertainment waterfront.

Well put!
Title: Re: Is Sgt. Pepper...´ Over-Rated?
Post by: nimrod on December 17, 2013, 09:50:43 PM
Good post moogmodule :-)

i think musically musically it is slightly over rated in that the songs are not the best of the beatles but as an event and a statement it was huge at the time so in that respect it was not over rated

I don't agree they invented talking on records things like that, George Martin had been doing that for years, they nicked  a lot of ideas from less successful people but people gave them credit for inventing everything, that wasn't they're fault