A treasury and a place to meet people of all ages with various interests from all over the World
Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: [1] 2 3 4

Author Topic: Paul McCartney's Rosetti Solid 7 guitar  (Read 17593 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Xose

  • A Thousand Pages
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 1073
Paul McCartney's Rosetti Solid 7 guitar
« on: March 08, 2010, 10:45:15 PM »

Hello,

Under Bobber suggestion (=thanks Bobber!! ;) ) I start this topic.

I'm currently researching Paul McCartney's original sound prior to mid-April 1961, when he purchased in Hamburg his 1st Hofner 500/1 'violin' bass, which would be famous in the whole world two years after. I have been collecting some Paul McCartney's ger from this era, as Selmer and Reslo microphones, Elpico amp, Zenith guitar, Framus guitar, and my last finding: an original and in a superb condition Rosetti Solid 7, red coloured, from 1961....)

I'm trying to find the brand/make of the pickup he fitted to this guitar, and seen at Top Ten Club in Hamburg at the beginning of April 1961, and I thought you could help me to identify it...

Do you know which kind of pickup could be?? It seems LIKE a DeArmond but in my opinion it is NOT a DeArmond, but another German or British pickup imitating the DeArmond.

What do you think?? Could you help me??

I will be awaiting for your news...

Sincerely yours,

Xosé








[/quote]



« Last Edit: May 05, 2010, 08:11:11 AM by Xose »
Logged

Bobber

  • Administrator
  • Sun King
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 13542
Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti guitar pick up at Top Ten
« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2010, 07:21:28 AM »

You're welcome. I moved the thread to the Musician's Corner as I thought it fitted better. Of course you do know that Rosetti is the English brand name for Egmond guitars from The Netherlands. Egmond does have a Solid 7 as well. Might that be something to research? I will also sent your question and pictures to a friend who has a guitar shop downtown.
Logged

Xose

  • A Thousand Pages
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 1073
Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti Solid 7 guitar
« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2010, 01:16:03 PM »

You're welcome. I moved the thread to the Musician's Corner as I thought it fitted better. Of course you do know that Rosetti is the English brand name for Egmond guitars from The Netherlands. Egmond does have a Solid 7 as well. Might that be something to research? I will also sent your question and pictures to a friend who has a guitar shop downtown.

Perfect...

Thank you VERY MUCH Bobber!! ;)

All info about Rosetti/Egmond Solid 7 (=catalogues, photos, owners, spare parts, etc.) is VERY welcome...

Xosé
« Last Edit: May 05, 2010, 08:11:42 AM by Xose »
Logged

Bobber

  • Administrator
  • Sun King
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 13542
Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti guitar pick up at Top Ten
« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2010, 01:22:35 PM »




owned by Larry Wassgren
Logged

Xose

  • A Thousand Pages
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 1073
Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti Solid 7 guitar
« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2010, 02:14:34 PM »

Thanks Bobber!! ;)

The green guitar is a Super Solid 7, i.e.: the model Egmond launched at beginning sixties to substitute the Solid 7

The red one is not Larry's anymore (=he sold it). It also hasn't the original Royal pick ups system...

I'm enclosing more photos with the original Royal pickup system fitted to Solid 7's...

Just compare the 'black strip' (=like, for example, on Macca's one) vs. the white one (=like, for example, on mine...)

Xosé











[/quote]



[/quote]
« Last Edit: May 05, 2010, 08:12:08 AM by Xose »
Logged

Xose

  • A Thousand Pages
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 1073
Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti Solid 7 guitar
« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2010, 07:35:19 PM »

Hello,

Can anybody help me to solve these questions?? Facts:

1) Paul McCartney purchases his Rosetti Solid 7 in 1960, June the 30th., at Hessy's music shop in Liverpool.

2) He arrives at Indra Club In Hamburg in August the 17th., with the guitar and his Elpico amp.

3) Where did he play before?? Only at two venues: Corporation's Grosvenor Ballroom, Grosvenor Road, Liscard, Wallasey, Cheshire and Neston Institute, Hinderton Road, Neston, Wirral, Cheshire.

Were the gigs at these venues booked by Allan Williams??  ???

Thanks in advance and best wishes!!  ;)

Xosé
« Last Edit: May 05, 2010, 08:12:40 AM by Xose »
Logged

Bobber

  • Administrator
  • Sun King
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 13542
Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti guitar pick up at Top Ten
« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2010, 09:42:40 PM »

Bookings like these were usually arranged by Williams or Mona Best. Details like these are usually described by Mark Lewisohn's in his Chronology, but I guess you have checked that. I can hardly imagine that there were only two gigs between June 30th and August 17th.
Logged

Xose

  • A Thousand Pages
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 1073
Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti Solid 7 guitar
« Reply #7 on: March 18, 2010, 09:37:32 AM »

Bookings like these were usually arranged by Williams or Mona Best. Details like these are usually described by Mark Lewisohn's in his Chronology, but I guess you have checked that. I can hardly imagine that there were only two gigs between June 30th and August 17th.

Thanks Bober!! ;)

After having posted my last contribution tio this thread, I found that those gigs at Wirral peninsula were booked by Les Dodd, acting Allan Williams as an agent. In fact, Williams arranged the gigs st those two venues, Neston Institute and Grosvenor Ballroom (=a total of 16, between June Thursday the 2nd and July Saturday the 30th.), every Thursday and Saturday respectively, while the boys were at Johnny Gentle tour in Scotland. IMHO, this was the very resaon which pushed Paul McCartney to purchase an electric guitar: the Solid 7...

After finishing those Wirral gigs, they met Pete Best at The Casbah, the Hamburg chance appeared and the history began to change...

What is of the most interest for me is the fact that the Solid 7 was used 'only' at 7 gigs before arriving at Indra on August the 17th. This would explain why the original Royal scratchplate/pu system wasn't STILL removed...

Xosé
« Last Edit: May 05, 2010, 08:13:03 AM by Xose »
Logged

Xose

  • A Thousand Pages
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 1073
Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti Solid 7 guitar
« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2010, 11:17:24 AM »

At Johnny Gentle's book (=Johnny Gentle and The Beatles: first ever tour - Scotland 1960) is stated that Paul bought his Solid 7 for that tour.

So..., what about Hessy's hire-purchase book date?? (=June the 30th.)  ???

Xosé
« Last Edit: May 05, 2010, 08:13:28 AM by Xose »
Logged

Bobber

  • Administrator
  • Sun King
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 13542
Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti guitar pick up at Top Ten
« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2010, 11:56:14 AM »

Babiuk states that Paul still played his Zenith on that tour. He is playing the Zenith on the audition ten days earlier. Plus the contract with Hessy's looks authentic to me. No reason to change the date on that.
Logged

Xose

  • A Thousand Pages
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 1073
Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti Solid 7 guitar
« Reply #10 on: March 19, 2010, 09:34:32 PM »

Babiuk states that Paul still played his Zenith on that tour. He is playing the Zenith on the audition ten days earlier. Plus the contract with Hessy's looks authentic to me. No reason to change the date on that.

Yes but..., what about Johnny Gentle's statement?? The hire-purchase could be settled in June the 30th., but the guitar could be 'got' before (=for example, with a deposit). Being their first professional tour, no wonder that Paul wanted to improve to an electric...

In two months there will be 50 years (=half a century!!!) of the purchase of that Rosetti Solid 7. I would like to publish an article about it, and I have the gear (=a Solid 7 and an Elpico), which means that I can aproximately reconstruct the sound. But I need ALL the relevant sources (=and info...)

Thanks Bobber!! ;)

Xosé
« Last Edit: May 05, 2010, 08:13:57 AM by Xose »
Logged

Bobber

  • Administrator
  • Sun King
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 13542
Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti guitar pick up at Top Ten
« Reply #11 on: March 22, 2010, 09:16:20 AM »

Yes but..., what about Johnny Gentle's statement?? The hire-purchase could be settled in June the 30th., but the guitar could be 'got' before (=for example, with a deposit). Being their first professional tour, no wonder that Paul wanted to improve to an electric...

In two months there will be 50 years (=half a century!!!) of the purchase of that Rosetti Solid 7. I would like to publish an article about it, and I have the gear (=a Solid 7 and an Elpico), which means that I can aproximately reconstruct the sound. But I need ALL the relevant sources (=and info...)

Thanks Bobber!! ;)

Xosé

I would say that with McCartney's financial state of that time, a deposit is not very likely. I'd say check on Krasker and maybe Bill Harry. Or Chazz Avery.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2010, 01:08:47 PM by Bobber »
Logged

Xose

  • A Thousand Pages
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 1073
Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti Solid 7 guitar
« Reply #12 on: March 22, 2010, 03:00:56 PM »

I would say that with McCartney's financial state of that time, a deposit is not very likely...

Yes, but maybe Jim 'signed' for his son until the hire purchase was settled....

...I'd say check on Krasker and maybe Bill Harry. Or Chazz Avery.

I did it with Eric Krasker and some others, but they don't have more info. I also wrote to John Askew (=Johnny Gentle's real name), but no replay so far...

Anyway, is more likely for Johnny Gentle tour. HP book says June the 30th., but that very day the boys were in the middle of their Wirral gigs at Neston and Wallasey. Buying the guitar just in the middle of those Wirral gigs?? Of course, it could be but it seems at least strange..., doesnt it??

I'm currently waiting for some sources from some of those Scottish villages. I will let you know...

Thanks again and best wishes,

Xosé
« Last Edit: May 05, 2010, 08:14:21 AM by Xose »
Logged

Bobber

  • Administrator
  • Sun King
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 13542
Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti guitar pick up at Top Ten
« Reply #13 on: March 22, 2010, 03:51:16 PM »

I'm currently waiting for some sources from some of those Scottish villages. I will let you know...

Please do.
Logged

Xose

  • A Thousand Pages
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 1073
Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti Solid 7 guitar
« Reply #14 on: March 22, 2010, 11:03:46 PM »

Babiuk states that Paul still played his Zenith on that tour...

Yes, but he gives no source to support that statement. He also states at the same paragraph that "..there is only one known photograph from the [Johnny Gentle] tour and it shows Tommy Moore on stage singing, with Harrison playing his Futurama in the background...". The singer at this photograph is not Tommy Moore but Johnny Gentle...

BTW: why Paul's HP book for his Solid 7 si 'so different' than the ones of Stuart's Höfner 500/5 bass and George's Selmer Truvoice Stadium amp (=page 31), John's Höfner Club 40 (=page 21) or George's Futurama (=page 26)?? Is Paul's a different type of contract??  ???

And if I see properly the small scan at Babiuk's book (=page 33), last coupon in Paul's HP is from 1961, January the 5th., when he paid..., £1 or £4?? What can you see??

Thanks in advance and best wishes!! ;)

Xosé
« Last Edit: May 05, 2010, 08:14:44 AM by Xose »
Logged

Bobber

  • Administrator
  • Sun King
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 13542
Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti guitar pick up at Top Ten
« Reply #15 on: March 23, 2010, 08:09:40 AM »

I can't read the contract word by word. Problem is we only have this contract to derive the date of Paul's purchase. There's no pictures known between the Larry Parnes audition and their first night in Hamburg. The only known picture of the Scotland tours does not show Paul. Your idea is that Paul might have thought to get a proper guitar for the Scotland tour, but George Harrison says in Anthology that their guitars and gears were all crap during the tour. Plus Paul -being an economist type of guy- might have saved some money earned on the tour to be able to buy him a better guitar. It's all assumptions I'm afraid.
Logged

Xose

  • A Thousand Pages
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 1073
Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti Solid 7 guitar
« Reply #16 on: March 23, 2010, 08:55:36 AM »

I can't read the contract word by word. Problem is we only have this contract to derive the date of Paul's purchase. There's no pictures known between the Larry Parnes audition and their first night in Hamburg. The only known picture of the Scotland tours does not show Paul. Your idea is that Paul might have thought to get a proper guitar for the Scotland tour, but George Harrison says in Anthology that their guitars and gears were all crap during the tour. Plus Paul -being an economist type of guy- might have saved some money earned on the tour to be able to buy him a better guitar. It's all assumptions I'm afraid.

Yes: once more you are right...

Let's wait for some info which can -eventually- surface from those seven Scottish villages...
Thanks again!! ;)

Xosé
« Last Edit: May 05, 2010, 08:15:05 AM by Xose »
Logged

Bobber

  • Administrator
  • Sun King
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 13542
Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti guitar pick up at Top Ten
« Reply #17 on: March 23, 2010, 09:54:45 AM »

Found this coverage of the Beatles Scottish Tour in May 1960. It's from Bob Spitz's book, which is not known for its reliaibility. Unfortunately there's no mention of any instruments used. Still a nice enough read. The last sentence on Ringo's interest seems plain nonsense to me by the way!

*NB: Subsequent research has shown that the famous Larry Parnes audition was not May 20 but May 10, 1960.


As we pick up from our last blog story, the "Silver Beetles" won the Larry Parnes Audition, beating out the four other top Liverpool bands in the process. The lads were understandably ecstatic. They were to be paid an astounding 90 Pounds/week on an actual tour. The whole thing was simply unprecedented for a Liverpudlian band.

Arrangements were hastily made among the band members. Paul somehow sweet talked his father into allowing him a vacation before final exams while John and Stuart just cut classes. As for equipment, the issue was solved when John decided to "borrow" the house PA system from the Liverpool Art College. The boys were finally hitting the road on a for real tour!! It was a journey from which they would never look back.

John, Paul, George, Stuart and Tommy also talked of stage names. After all, big stars all used fake stage names didn't they? No one remembers who started up this conversation but an educated guess would suggest it was Stuart Sutcliffe since he was the most affected by image and stage looks. Stuart Sutcliffe became Stuart de Stael, after his painting idol, the Russian abstract classicist. John and Tommy Moore opted not to have stage names. Paul had great fun becoming Paul Ramone for the tour while George became Carl Harrison, named after his guitar idol Carl Perkins.

>Trivia: As we have blogged before, the proto-punk star band, The Ramones, got their name from this episode. As Beatlemaniacs all, the Ramones became the Ramones directly from this story in Beatle history. They dug how McCartney just came up with that radical stage name and how it sounded. >

The train ride was horrible but the boys disembarked in Glasgow 10 hours later. This was followed by hours and hours of lorrey driving along the rural, two lane, serpentine Scottish road network. Larry Parnes always started out his new bands on the Scottish dance-hall circuit, where there were more than 6000 small venues for bands to play in, literally. The Scottish tour circuit provided steady work for many bands and an opportunity for each to develope their routines and repetoir away from the unforgiving lights and scrutiny of London.

The band and singer Johnny Gentle finally stopped in the town of Alloa.  They were forced to go right to work. They unloaded at the town hall where they were scheduled to go on within the hour. Gentle (born John Askew) was a handsome man with black hair, high cheekbones and velvety voice; the very model of a Larry Parnes artist. Gentle and the pre-Fabs hit it off immediately and spent the 30 minutes before the first show trying to hammer out a decent set of songs. They were required to do two, one hour performances. Even though the boys had learned much of Gentle's repetoir, they still needed to work on tempos, starts, stops etc.

As it turned out, the first set went extremely well. Especially so for an act that had just met. Said Gentle, "The Beatles sounded as good as any group that was thrown at me by Parnes." At first however, the Silver Beetles were not going over so well due to their flippant personalities that wasn't going down well with local fans and promoters. It was Johnny Gentle himself that intervened on behalf of the fledgling group and begged Larry Parnes NOT to pull the Silver Beetles from the tour. Gentle guaranteed they would get better. He was right. In no time at all, the Silver Beetles and Gentle found their groove and artistic balance. As well, a few words from Johnny himself no doubt straightened the boys out.

>Trivia: Johnny Gentle remains the only artist in history who can claim the Beatles were HIS backing band.


As the Silver Beetles and singer Johnny Gentle found their balance and honed their act in the Scottish highlands, it became clear that the pre-Fabs were already moving forward in both material and, most importantly, confidence. The way it worked basically was this; Johnny Gentle would conclude around 20 minutes of singing with the Silver Beetles backing him, then the band would take over and do a 40 minute set. Once Gentle had finished, it was usually Paul who rushed to the microphone screeching out the opening vocals to Little Richard's "Long Tall Sally" and that was it: all pretense was over with - Johnny Gentle entertained the audience, the Silver Beetles rocked them into oblivion.

John, Paul, George, Stuart and Tommy pummeled the unsuspecting Scottish audiances with 40 minutes of unbridled rock & roll, the likes of which none of the paid ticketeers had been prepared for. The boys wouldn't let up for the full 40- minutes and the affect was mesmerizing. The Scottish kids were completely undone by this music and the manic energy of the pre-Fabs and would wind up rushing the stage trying to fling themselves upon the stage.

Johnny Gentle recalls the time, "Those two boys operated on a different frequency," he said of John and Paul. "I used to watch them work the crowd as though they'd been doing it all their lives - and without any effort other than their amazing talent. I'd never seen anything like it. They were so tapped into what the other was doing and could sense their partner's next move, they just read each other like a book. It was always Lennon & McCartney, even then. Lennon and McCartney. They wouldn't even look at George or Stu to determine where things were going. Everything was designed around the two of them - and the others had to catch up on their own."

Interestingly, George, Stuart and Tommy did keep pace. George Harrison especially. He worked his interesting patterns by embroidering his strumming with a textured riffs and intonations that served to string the songs along with glorious coloring. This, forshadowing his underated work when the Beatles became superstars. George's guitar embroidering on songs is perhaps the most underated effort by any Beatle in their entire history.

The Silver Beetles were slowly stealing the show from Gentle. The stronger they played, the more girls they attracted; the more girls they got, the stronger they played. They learned a dirty little secret about the business along the way too: beyond the lights, applause, hotels and girls- no one ever made money on the road. They were broke after four days. Gentle wired Parnes for an advance and the day was saved. All in all, the tour was a fantastic experience for the future Beatles. Gentle was a fellow Scouser from Liverpool and was refreshingly normal and down to earth with the boys, which they loved.

>Trivia: The van driver for this little tour was a chap named Gerry Scott. Johnny Gentle was dabbling at writing songs during the tour and John Lennon heard one of them, a tune called "I've Just Fallen." Lennon suggeted to Gentle to change the middle 8 part to a better middle 8 that Lennon had composed. Gentle did and liked the change. A year goes by, and Britain's next big star Adam Faith used the song on his then new album. As for Johnny Gentle, his career went nowhere. So, he changed his name again to Darren Young and re-recorded "I've Just Fallen" again and released it as a B side single. Thus, the middle 8 to "I've Just Fallen" remains the very first Lennon partial composition recorded and released. Oddly, that single was released on Parlophone records, the same label that would be spouting Beatles' hits like the Old Faithful geyser by 1963.

Conclusion: Johnny Gentle sang the Silver Beetles' praises long and hard to Larry Parnes despite the fact that the pre-Fabs had virtually stolen the tour from him. Gentle said he would go out with them again any time and meant it. Parnes was impressed but opted not to resign them for another tour. Gigs were left to Allan Williams back in Liverpool. But the pre-Fabs had served notice to every band in the area that they were a force to be reckoned with. Even Williams relented a bit and recognized that they had talent. Tommy Moore would quit the Silver Beetles by June 11 after having sustained a concussion in a van accident in Scotland. Very interestingly, the drummer from Rory Storm and the Hurricanes took a detached interest in the Silver Beetles and promised himself that he would keep track of that ourtrageous, hard working pure rock & roll outfit precisely because they were so raw, relentless and good. That drummer was named Ringo Starr.
Logged

Xose

  • A Thousand Pages
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 1073
Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti Solid 7 guitar
« Reply #18 on: March 23, 2010, 03:06:40 PM »

Excellente, Bobber, excellent... A fantastic an nice reading...Thank you SO much!! ;)

It's very good what Spitz says about John 'borrowing' PA system from the Art College, the brief 'rehearsal' 30 minutes before their first gig in Alloa, and that superb description Johnny Gentle did about John & Paul 'matching' together...

I wonder where did Spitz take that info from...

Let's have a look at the gigs in the Wirral Penninsula booked by Les Dodd (=acting Williams as their agent), before and after the date of Rosetti Solid 7 contract, 1960, June the 30th.:

June the 2nd., Thursday: Neston Institute, Neston
June the 4th., Saturday: Corporation's Grosvernor Ballroom, Liscard
June the 6th., Monday: Corporation's Grosvenor Ballroom, with Gerry and the Pacemakers
June the 9th., Thursday: Neston Institute
June the 11th., Saturday: Corporation's Grosvenor Ballroom. Drummer Thomas Moore doesn't play (=???)
June the 13th., Monday: Performance at manager Allan Williams' Jacaranda Club. It was drummer Tommy Moore's final appearance with the group
June the 16th., Thursday: Neston Institute. Also performing are Keith Rowlands and the Deesiders (=Who played drums??)
June the 18th., Saturday. Corporation's Grosvenor Ballroom (=Who played drums??)
June the 23rd., Thursday: Neston Institute (=Who played drums??)
June the 25th., Saturday: Corporation's Grosvenor Ballroom (=Who played drums??)
June the 30th., Thursday: Neston Institute (=official date of guitar purchase. Who played drums??)
July the 2nd., Saturday: Corporation's Grosvenor Ballroom (=Who played drums??)
July the 7th., Thursday: Neston Institute (=Who played drums??)
July the 9th., Saturday: Corporation's Grosvenor Ballroom (=Who played drums??)
July the 16th., Saturday: Corporation's Grosvenor Ballroom. From now the Silver Beatles are: John, Paul, George, Stu and Norman Chapman (drums).
July the 23rd., Saturday: Corporation's Grosvenor Ballroom
July the 30th., Saturday. Corporation's Grosvenor Ballroom

 ???

Xosé
« Last Edit: May 05, 2010, 08:17:07 AM by Xose »
Logged

Bobber

  • Administrator
  • Sun King
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 13542
Re: Paul McCartney's Rosetti guitar pick up at Top Ten
« Reply #19 on: March 23, 2010, 03:45:53 PM »

I wonder where did Spitz take that info from...

I think he made up a lot...
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 3 4
 

Page created in 1.6 seconds with 26 queries.