A treasury and a place to meet people of all ages with various interests from all over the World
Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

PLEASE READ OUR FORUM RULES HERE

Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 ... 12

Author Topic: The beginnings of Paul McCartney's bass playing  (Read 48656 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Bobber

  • Administrator
  • Sun King
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 13529
Re: The beginnings of Paul McCartney's bass playing
« Reply #60 on: July 05, 2010, 07:58:41 AM »

Ah! Excellent research. It is very well possible that Sheridan asked Peter Eckhorn to purchase a standing bass as he was quite the star in those days. Plus he may have advised Paul on his early sound. If you want to ask Tony: he can easily be reached by his secretary aka his wife. ha2ha  I may have an email address somewhere.
Logged

Xose

  • A Thousand Pages
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 1073
Re: The beginnings of Paul McCartney's bass playing
« Reply #61 on: July 05, 2010, 08:39:10 AM »

Ah! Excellent research. It is very well possible that Sheridan asked Peter Eckhorn to purchase a standing bass as he was quite the star in those days. Plus he may have advised Paul on his early sound. If you want to ask Tony: he can easily be reached by his secretary aka his wife. ha2ha  I may have an email address somewhere.

Thank you Bobber!! ;)

Questions to Tony Sheridan are on the way now...

And now the question is: see the botom right side at the two Double Bass photos. Why are those Watkins & Elpico amps (=Sutcliffe's & McCartney's??) at the Top Ten by then?? (=before 18 November 1960...)  ;D

Best!! ;)

Xosé
Logged

Xose

  • A Thousand Pages
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 1073
Re: The beginnings of Paul McCartney's bass playing
« Reply #62 on: July 05, 2010, 11:49:15 AM »

Private interview with an -by the moment- anonimous witness of those days (=after April 1961), at Merseyside and Manchester, being a musician himself from Manchester:

"...Pete Best was I thought very good indeed, one of the best i had heard with local bands. Clem Cattini and Carlo Little were the top session and touring guys at the time.( search on them for some fabulous history). Pete Best was always surrounded by girls and didn't quite fit in with the other three, although musically they were so magnetic and together. Our drummer...used to reckon Rory Storm's drummer was the best in Liverpool that he had heard. This was after a gig at new Brighton Tower ballroom for a guy named Sammy Leach. The drummer in question of course was Ringo...

...Your Photo [McCartney at The Casbah with his Rosetti Solid 7 converted to a three string bass by means of three 'borrowed' piano strings] is of the much earlier Beatles with combed back hair. The ones I knew were very "Beatnik" in appearance with all black clothes, longish combed forward hair, knee length leather flying boots for Paul( I think). They were quite Liverpool underground and had their own band of followers who were very proud of their own band and liked no one else. The strange thing was until 1962 nobody outside Liverpool liked the Beatles because they did not play covers or copy stars of the day. Their big numbers were Money, Hippy Shake, Mr Moonlight, If you gotta make a fool of somebody etc etc. These were not popular amongst young dancers and jivers. At Southport Floral hall The Beatles died a death with a "dirty" sound from poor quality gear. In the Cavern and iron Door they were magic and filled every venue in liverpool that they played...

...Those numbers were done by quite a few bands but only in Liverpool. They were not pop stuff like Paul Anka, Marty Wilde, Cliff Richard etc. and thus only appealed to a minority audience, mainly art student types who were Beatle type fans. Liverpool groups did Bo Diddley, Chan Romero, Arthur Alexander, Chuck Berry, Larry Williams, as well as other lesser known but good USA artists.

Don't know about the gear at Southport. I only remember a Selmer red and white Truvoice bass amp for Paul with a black painted extension speaker [the 'coffin' made by Adrian Barber].

Most groups had their own fans who would travel anywhere in Liverpool to see their"own" band. King Size Taylor and the Dominoes, Derry Wilkie and the Seniors, The Remo Four, Faron's Flamingoes etc all had a great following of fans, However the King of Merseyside until the Beatles was Rory Storm and the Hurricanes. A great showman but he missed out on the boom times...

...I would describe the Beatles sound as a "dirty" sound; a very full sound with no rhythm guitar but a sort of double guitar part from John and George. The bass sound from the 500/1 was poor and too thin. the equipment was only basic as were most bands those days. I have never liked the 500/1 sound. I prefer the 500/5 with a lot more power and bass.

What cannot be denied though is the absolute electricity generated by their playing. I had never heard a group before that made my hair stand on end. They were incredibly exciting and alive. The only other band to do that was Screaming Lrd Stch's Savages - brilliant..."


Excellent, excellent, excellent!!  ;D

Xosé
Logged

Xose

  • A Thousand Pages
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 1073
Re: The beginnings of Paul McCartney's bass playing
« Reply #63 on: July 08, 2010, 11:00:18 AM »

Private interview with an -by the moment- anonimous witness of those days (=after April 1961), at Merseyside and Manchester, being a musician himself from Manchester:

"...Let's make one thing very clear.. There was [at those days] a huge divide between Liverpool and Manchester bands, a bit like football of today. Bands from either city were not popular in the other city...

...Liverpool bands were very rough and ready with a sound all of their own making and did lots of lesser known songs. Manchester bands were a lot cleaner sound and copied stars very well indeed...

...Manchester bass and liverpool bass - the same thing really except the manchester copy bands would often play like Jet Harris of the Shadows or other famous bands of then day. Liverpool bands tended to make their own riffs and play basic stuff which fitted the music.

Manchester bands usually had better gear. I don't know why but manchester paid better money in those days for bands. Geographically speaking Liverpool was more isolated from the road newtwork in the late fifties and early sixties. Thus the touring bands would find it easier to play Manchester than L'pool. The Free Trade Hall in manc. was a huge gig at the time...."


Xosé
Logged

Xose

  • A Thousand Pages
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 1073
Re: The beginnings of Paul McCartney's bass playing
« Reply #64 on: July 14, 2010, 09:13:24 PM »

Quote from: Xosé
From an interview with John Byrne -aka Johnny Guitar-, guitar player with Rory Storm & The Hurricanes:

"...Question. And I know you were the first Liverpool band to have an electric bass guitar.

Answer from Johnny Bryne Guitar. How that came about was.... we'd been using teachest bass but skiffle was going out. So, to play rock and roll you need the instruments and in Liverpool in 1958 all you had were Hofner guitars - which were great but they weren't rock and roll guitars. So I bought an Antoria in Rushworths for 29 quid. Everyone laughed at it when they first saw it. It was a Japanese import and it looked like a plank of wood, it was the first one in Liverpool. But I hadn't thought on that you needed a bloody amplifier to go with it. Nobody had amplifiers. So the first amplifier I used was a wooden box with a small valve amplifier and a speaker out of a cinema on West Derby Road. So I used that. Ringo had by now got a full kit together. We had a lead guitarist with a Hofner Club 40, but we were still using a tea chest bass. But Rory had met this woman who said her son had bought a Framus Star Bass, and she was making him take it back because it was too much. So me and Rory arranged to meet her at Hessy's were we bought it off him for 24 quid. No one knew what to do with it because there were no bass amps. In 1958/59 amps were just coming into the shops and they had Vox which were scarce and expensive and another firm called Selmer. So we bought 3 Selmers. Plugged the bass into one of them and we were off as a rock and roll band. When we did Brand New Cadillac the other bands would come over and say the sound was fantastic..."


Another mistery solved...


Dave Lovelady, later the drummer with the Fourmost:
 
"...One night in St Luke's Hall was an absolute sensation. Wally [Walter Eymond] had got the first electric bass guitar in Liverpool. There was always a bass on the American records but we had never seen one. The groups crowded round in amazement and the deep, booming sound when they opened with 'Brand New Cadillac' was tremendous..."

Full article here...

Now, next question is: when was that gig at St Luke's Hall (=Crosby)??  ???

Best!! ;)

Xosé
Logged

Bobber

  • Administrator
  • Sun King
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 13529
Re: The beginnings of Paul McCartney's bass playing
« Reply #65 on: July 15, 2010, 08:42:10 AM »

So, you're looking for the date of the gig done by Rory Storm and the Hurricanes, somewhere probably around 1959 in St Luke's Hall? Does St Luke's Hall still exist and/or do they have a log or something?
Logged

Xose

  • A Thousand Pages
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 1073
Re: The beginnings of Paul McCartney's bass playing
« Reply #66 on: July 15, 2010, 12:26:58 PM »

Yes: that would be THE finding.

I don't know if St Luke's Hall still exists...

Xosé
Logged

Xose

  • A Thousand Pages
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 1073
Re: The beginnings of Paul McCartney's bass playing
« Reply #67 on: July 15, 2010, 12:45:35 PM »

According to Ringo Starr in the Anthology book, he got his first kit (=an Ajax, similar to a Ludwig Silver Pearl) in Hessy's on Summer 1958. After that he joined Rory Storm & The Hurricanes. So..., when did Ringo really join RS&TH??  ???

Xosé
Logged

Xose

  • A Thousand Pages
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 1073
Re: The beginnings of Paul McCartney's bass playing
« Reply #68 on: July 16, 2010, 03:09:30 PM »

Quote from: Xosé
...when did Ringo join RS&TH??...


I think I have found it. Bill Harry, 'While My Guitar Gently Weeps. The Tragic Story of Rory Storm & the Hurricanes'

"...By this time Rory had met Ritchie Starkey at a talent contest called '6.5 Special.' Ritchie had left the Eddie Clayton Skiffle Group and was playing with the Darktown Skiffle. Rory told him that he was looking for a drummer. Ritchie was interested in joining them and first appeared with the group on March 25 1959 at the Mardi Gras in Mount Pleasant..."

But there is something which puzzles me. On this page Bill Harry says:

"...In January 1959 he changed the name of the group to the Raving Texans and their line-up comprised Al Caldwell (guitar/vocals), Johnny Byrne (guitar/vocals), Paul Murphy (guitar/vocals), Reg Hales (washboard) and Jeff Truman (tea-chest bass). Spud Ward, a former member of the Swinging Bluegenes, took over from Truman on bass guitar and the group continued as the Raving Texans until July 1959..."

But on this one:

"...The line-up now [October 1959??] became Rory Storm (vocals), Johnny Byrne (rhythm guitar), Charles O'Brien (lead guitar), Wally Eymond (bass guitar/vocals) and Ritchie Starkey (drums)..."

And adds:

"...Drummer Dave Lovelady of the Dominoes said, 'One night at St. Luke's Hall was an absolute sensation. Rory Storm came in with Wally, who had got the first bass in Liverpool. There was always a bass on American records, but we'd never seen one, and here was Wally with a Framus four-string bass guitar. The groups crowded round in amazement when they opened with 'Brand New Cadillac', this deep-booming sound was tremendous.'..."

So:

1) As we already knew, Walter Eymond had got the first bass in Liverpool (=a Framus Star Bass)

2) Walter Eymond joined RS&TH in [=October??] 1959 (=for Spud Ward)

3) Spud Ward joined RS&TH (=still named The Raving Texans) in January 1959

How could be Spud Ward A bass guitar player??  ???

Perhaps Bill Harry wanted really mean Double Bass. Here there is a photo of The Swinging Bluegenes, with Spud Ward on Double Bass, before joining RS&TH:



Any thoughts??  ???

Xosé
Logged

Bobber

  • Administrator
  • Sun King
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 13529
Re: The beginnings of Paul McCartney's bass playing
« Reply #69 on: July 17, 2010, 06:43:47 PM »

Problem is that the history of the Beatles is more widely researched than that of Rory Storm. There's some info on him and the band but I doubt it will bring you any further:

http://www.dmbeatles.com/forums/index.php?topic=3546.20
http://www.merseybeatnostalgia.co.uk/html/rory_storm.html
Logged

Xose

  • A Thousand Pages
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 1073
Re: The beginnings of Paul McCartney's bass playing
« Reply #70 on: July 18, 2010, 10:40:39 AM »

Thank you Bobber!!  ;)

Definitely, Spud Ward was a Double Bass player, not bass guitar player...

Xosé
Logged

Xose

  • A Thousand Pages
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 1073
Re: The beginnings of Paul McCartney's bass playing
« Reply #71 on: July 18, 2010, 10:43:48 AM »

By those days (=beginning May 1960) not many Liverpool bands did have a bass guitar:

- Davey "Mushy" Cooper played his blonde Höfner 500/5 with The Bob's Vegas Five

- Walter Eymond played his Framus Star Bass with Rory Storm & THe Hurricanes

- Stuart Sutcliffe played his brunnette Höfner 500/5 with The Silver Beatles

- Malcom Linnell played his blonde Höfner 500/5 with Cliff Roberts & The Rockers

- Johnny Gustafson played his Hoyer_Soloist_converted_to_a_bass with Cass & The Cassanovas

- Les Chadwick played his Framus_Sorella_converted_to_a_bass (=with an extra pickup at the tailpiece!!!) with Gerry & The Pacemakers

- Phil Whitehead played his ...Kay??? with Derry & The Seniors. Was this instrument also a guitar converted to a bass??

At least two bass players (=perhaps three??) at the historical audition at Wyvern Club on 10 May 1960 had their regular guitars converted to a bass, i.e., 40% (=perhaps 60%??) of the total. No wonder that Paul McCartney did the same a few months after with his Solid 7...

Mo Foster, Seventeen Watts?, London, Sanctuary, 1997, pp. 93-94:

"...Often, in the enthusiasm of forming a band, there would be an excess of one instrument. This imbalance was solved during the skiffle period when four guitars would suddenly dwindle to three guitars as one player, so he imagined, was demoted to the lower rank of bass player. Everybody thought there had to be a bass although nobody actually knew what it did. The unfortunate player was usually chosen by default -either he knew the least number of chords, or he was last to join, or perhaps his personality dictated a desire to stand at the back...
...Somehow, somewhere, I'd heard the phrase 'Electric Bass Guitar'. It sounded longer and more important than just a guitar, and I liked it. Desperate for more information (even though my lack of funds would preclude such a purchase), I scanned the advertisements but they were not helpful. For example, 'The Hofner Bass Guitar': "Guitarists, double your income with the Hofner Bass Guitar. Tuned like a bass with the third, fourth, fifth and sixth strings of a guitar"...
...This confusing information led me to believe that to play the bass guitar you merely removed the top two strings of an ordinary guitar, and then in some way amplified it..."


Xosé



















« Last Edit: July 18, 2010, 10:45:47 AM by Xose »
Logged

Xose

  • A Thousand Pages
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 1073
Re: The beginnings of Paul McCartney's bass playing
« Reply #72 on: July 18, 2010, 10:48:15 AM »

Liverpool Stadium, 3 May 1960.

John Lennon, Paul McCartney, George Harrison and Stu Sutcliffe were in the audience:





Gene Vincent (=who was the backing band??):





Rory Storm & The Hurricanes:



Cass & The Cassanovas:



Has anybody come across with more photos from that historical gig??  ???

Thanks in advance and best wishes!!  ;)

Xosé
« Last Edit: July 18, 2010, 10:50:02 AM by Xose »
Logged

Xose

  • A Thousand Pages
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 1073
Re: The beginnings of Paul McCartney's bass playing
« Reply #73 on: July 19, 2010, 07:01:40 PM »

Quote from: Xosé
...From an interview with John Byrne -aka Johnny Guitar-, guitar player with Rory Storm & The Hurricanes:

"...But Rory had met this woman who said her son had bought a Framus Star Bass, and she was making him take it back because it was too much. So me and Rory arranged to meet her at Hessy's were we bought it off him for 24 quid..."

From Johnny 'Guitar' Byrne's diaries, under August 1959:

"...August 10. Went to see Mrs. Woods about electric bass but she wanted £9, so I dropped the idea.
August 13. Went to Mrs. Woods about bass. We gave her £5. She signs it over to us tomorrow..."


Another mistery solved... 8)

I wonder who was Mrs. Woods' son...  :roll:

Xosé
Logged

cubanheel

  • Getting Better
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 340
Re: The beginnings of Paul McCartney's bass playing
« Reply #74 on: July 20, 2010, 12:42:59 PM »

Who's the 'Davy Jones' mentioned in the posters, obviously not the pint-sized cutie from the Monkees????
Logged
...once there was a way to get back homeward ...

Bobber

  • Administrator
  • Sun King
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 13529
Re: The beginnings of Paul McCartney's bass playing
« Reply #75 on: July 20, 2010, 02:58:38 PM »

Who's the 'Davy Jones' mentioned in the posters, obviously not the pint-sized cutie from the Monkees????


Logged

Bobber

  • Administrator
  • Sun King
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 13529
Re: The beginnings of Paul McCartney's bass playing
« Reply #76 on: July 20, 2010, 02:59:26 PM »

By the way Xose, I remember Astrid Kirchherr's picture book contains a lot of pictures of other Liverpool bands. I'll have a look if they're portraited with their bassguitars.
Logged

Xose

  • A Thousand Pages
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 1073
Re: The beginnings of Paul McCartney's bass playing
« Reply #77 on: July 20, 2010, 03:40:42 PM »

By the way Xose, I remember Astrid Kirchherr's picture book contains a lot of pictures of other Liverpool bands. I'll have a look if they're portraited with their bassguitars.

Oh yes please!!  ;) I don't have that book...  :(

BTW: do you have pictures of other groups on 3 May 1960 at Liverpool Stadium??  ???

Xosé
Logged

Xose

  • A Thousand Pages
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 1073
Re: The beginnings of Paul McCartney's bass playing
« Reply #78 on: July 20, 2010, 09:31:36 PM »

Mo Foster, Seventeen Watts?, London, Sanctuary, 1997, p. 90:

"...In 1958, by a twist of fate, The Chas McDevitt Group replaced US rock 'n' roll star, Jerry Lee Lewis on a nationwide tour (there had been moral indignation at Jerry arriving on this country with 13-year-old bride-to-be). On that same package was a black American vocal group, The Treniers, who had already successfully appeared in films. More significantly, their bass player played a bass guitar: this was the first time The McDevitt Group had ever seen one, and it prompted them to invest in the only available to them at the time: a Framus. At first, no one in Chas's group had a clue how to play the communal bass but Shirley Douglas, by default, became the bass player because she was the only member of the band who could sing and play it at the same time..."

Any video/photo of Chas McDevitt Group displaying Shirley playing her Framus Star Bass??  ???

Xosé
Logged

Bobber

  • Administrator
  • Sun King
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 13529
Re: The beginnings of Paul McCartney's bass playing
« Reply #79 on: July 20, 2010, 09:51:18 PM »

You can send an e-mail to Chas from here: http://www.chasmcdevitt.com/cmc_contact.php

There's some pictures on his website, but none showing a bassguitar in the late 50s.
Logged
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 ... 12
 

Page created in 1.65 seconds with 27 queries.