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[Xose]

Double Bass players:

Perhaps Cyril MacArther and Gordon Pearce??



Xosé

[Hello Goodbye]

Double Bass players:

Perhaps Cyril MacArther and Gordon Pearce??



Xosé

Yes, Cyril MacArther and Gordon Pearce on contrabass...

http://www.thebeatleshk.com/Discography/Albums/SgtPeppersLonelyHeartsClubBand.html

[Xose]

Yes, Cyril MacArther and Gordon Pearce on contrabass...

Thank you HG!!

I was meaning if they could be as well the ones who played on George Martin's Orchestra by February 1965...

Best!!

Xosé

[Bobber]

I've tried to find who the members of the George Martin Orchestra were. I haven't dug deep enough yet I guess.

[Xose]

I've tried to find who the members of the George Martin Orchestra were. I haven't dug deep enough yet I guess.

Ok, Bobber. Thanks anyway!!

Xosé

[Griff]

Phil Whitehead didn't join us untill we come back from Hamburg. I played all the bass riffs on my guitar along with the solo work. Also in the band in Hamburg was Stan Foster on piano,he left when we returned to Liverpool. Geeeez -- I should write a book! The first night the Beatles arrived I met Lennon on the stairs in the Kaiserkeller and he asked me who was playing bass for us, when I replied it was me, he was confused for a second, but I had been playing that way with the Seniors for about a year.
           Griff --- Seniors and the Big Three

[Xose]

Phil Whitehead didn't join us untill we come back from Hamburg. I played all the bass riffs on my guitar along with the solo work. Also in the band in Hamburg was Stan Foster on piano,he left when we returned to Liverpool. Geeeez -- I should write a book! The first night the Beatles arrived I met Lennon on the stairs in the Kaiserkeller and he asked me who was playing bass for us, when I replied it was me, he was confused for a second, but I had been playing that way with the Seniors for about a year.
           Griff --- Seniors and the Big Three

Excellent, Griff!!! Thank you SO much!!

I would have a lot a questions for you, but only one:

Do you remember Paul McCartney in Hamburg playing his Rosetti Solid 7 as a 'bass' with three piano strings on it, or playing Sutcliffe's bass??

Thanks in advance and very best wishes!!

Xosé

[Griff]

I remember McCartney playing the Rosetti, not plugged in. Maybe he did play Stuart's bass on the odd occasion. Just before I left Hamburg I sold my broken amp to Paul, so he could use the speaker with something else he was putting together. I also borrowed an extra 20 marks from him. When we were all back in the 'pool he had to chase me to get his money back. When he finally did, Paul -- myself and my brother went to the Grapes pub after a gig at the Cavern and proceeded to spend the money and get p#$%#@^.

              Griff

[Xose]

I remember McCartney playing the Rosetti, not plugged in. Maybe he did play Stuart's bass on the odd occasion. Just before I left Hamburg I sold my broken amp to Paul, so he could use the speaker with something else he was putting together. I also borrowed an extra 20 marks from him. When we were all back in the 'pool he had to chase me to get his money back. When he finally did, Paul -- myself and my brother went to the Grapes pub after a gig at the Cavern and proceeded to spend the money and get p#$%#@^.

              Griff

Again..., excellent!! Thank you SO much!!

So, McCartney was playing the Rosetti, not plugged in, ALREADY in Hamburg..., correct? This is a very good finding, because all evidence so far found, told about he used his Rosetti not plugged in when returning back to Liverpool (=end December 1960 onwards...)

There is another interesting fact you have put over the table: he used the speaker you sold to him ALREADY in Hamburg. So maybe his Elpico was not working at those days??

BTW: if he did play Stuart's bass on the odd occasion in Hamburg, this means that this was -probably- the first time he played a bass guitar on stage..., am I right??

Please: excuse all my questions but your memories are fantastic...

Thanks again!!

Xosé

[Griff]

He was not plugged in, but you have to remember we left Hamburg before them, so obviously I am not aware of any happenings once we had left. Could be that his amp was screwed, things were breaking down all the time. You have to remember they were just the Beatles, like we were just the Seniors, a bunch of kids from Liverpool who loved R'n'R and partying.Sometimes we would be off somewhere else when they were playing, and the same goes for them. It may be hard for some people to understand but, there were no big stars amongst us at the time, just a bunch of scallys' from the 'pool. 
              I did get up with them one night and sang 'Long Tally Sally' and 'Rip It Up' .

                   Griff

[Xose]

He was not plugged in, but you have to remember we left Hamburg before them, so obviously I am not aware of any happenings once we had left. Could be that his amp was screwed, things were breaking down all the time. You have to remember they were just the Beatles, like we were just the Seniors, a bunch of kids from Liverpool who loved R'n'R and partying.Sometimes we would be off somewhere else when they were playing, and the same goes for them. It may be hard for some people to understand but, there were no big stars amongst us at the time, just a bunch of scallys' from the 'pool.  
              I did get up with them one night and sang 'Long Tally Sally' and 'Rip It Up'...

Excellent again, Griff!!

So, if my data are correct, you left Hamburg on 30 September 1960. This means that, by September 1960, Paul McCartney played his Rosetti Solid 7 not plugged into an amp at Indra..., right??

BTW: according to Eric Krasker, The Beatles. Fact and Fiction. 1960-1962, Biarritz, Séguier, 2009, pp. 34-35:

"...During September, while the Beatles were trying their best to attract customers to the Indra Club, the Kaiserkeller suffered the full force of competition from the Top Ten Club. Bruno Koschmider soon noticed that the clientele thinned out whenever Derry & The Seniors stopped for a break, even though the jukebox promptly took over. He could hardly expect his resident musicians to work non-stop, and the new Liverpool group he was expecting had not yet arrived. So in the meantime he decided to boost slack periods at the Kaiserkeller in another way - by 'creating' a third group as a stopgap.

Thus he took sax player Howie Casey and pianist Stan Foster from the Seniors, engaged a German jazz drummer who was working in another club and enlisted a Beatle, Stuart Sutcliffe, who on this ocassion had to use the Seniors' bass. The Beatles, forced to restructure their line-up had to entrust Sutcliffe's Höfner bass to Paul McCartney who, because he was left-handed, could but play it the other way round..."

So..., which bass did Stuart play with you at Kaiserkeller and which bass did McCartney play at Indra??

Thank you very much again!!

Xosé

[Griff]

Stuart did not use any bass that our band had, because we didn't have one! I know that we were all split up for a few days, but I can't remember who was with whom. As I mentioned before we were just a bunch of kids from the 'pool. None of us would have been in any way exited, by playing with someone from the Beatles or someone from the Seniors, for their musician ship. We would have had just a good old time!!
                        Griff

[Xose]

Stuart did not use any bass that our band had, because we didn't have one! I know that we were all split up for a few days, but I can't remember who was with whom...

Thanks again, Griff!!

Your info is absolutely very valuable because YOU were there at the time...

Only one more question (=last one. I promise!!):

Do you remember if Lennon already had got his Rickenbacker guitar while you (=The Seniors) were playing at the Indra?? (=i.e.: before 30 September 1960...)

Best wishes from Spain!!

Xosé

[Griff]

Hi Xose
           Yes he did,I went with him to pick it up at the music store in Hamburg. While John was paying for it , he gave it to me to play.
I was trying out the tremelo arm ( Wammy bar) when it came off in my hand. The saleman spluttered something in german , and John said " what the #$%^ did you do that for? I felt really bad at the time because he had to leave it for a few days untill they fixed it.

                        Griff

PS we were playing at the Kaiserkeller at the time.

[Xose]

Hi Xose
           Yes he did,I went with him to pick it up at the music store in Hamburg. While John was paying for it , he gave it to me to play.
I was trying out the tremelo arm ( Wammy bar) when it came off in my hand. The saleman spluttered something in german , and John said " what the #$%^ did you do that for? I felt really bad at the time because he had to leave it for a few days untill they fixed it.

                        Griff

PS we were playing at the Kaiserkeller at the time.

Wonderful... Thanks a lot, Griff!!

This places his purchasing before 30 September 1960. Do you remember the name of the shop?? Maybe Rathoff??

Very best wishes!!

Xosé

[Griff]

Can't remember.
                       Griff

[Xose]

Can't remember.

Well. Anyway, you have provided a SUPERB information about those days. Maybe some day we can know the complete story... Even how much did Lennon pay for his Rick!!

Thanks to your info, now I can guess that this FUMA type pickup on McCartney's Rosetti three_piano_strings 'bass':



...could be -probably- got in Liverpool and not in Hamburg...

Thank you VERY MUCH again!!

Xosé

[Xose]

Tuesday February 16, 1965:



This explains why Ringo was fooling around with the Double Bass bow onto the Ramírez:

...

...Another one:

...

One more:



Xosé

[Xose]

Pete Best talking about 17 Deceember 1960:

"...Back in Liverpool the home bound Beatles were floating, doing nothing. Pete spoke to his mother Mo. He told her The Beatles got really really good in Hamburg. He asked if she would throw them a lifeline by booking them and seeking bookings for them. Mo agreed. Pete wrote to John and Stuart. John replied, he was coming home. Stu replied, he would come home , but not until January. He wanted to spend Christmas and New Year with his girlfriend Astrid Kirchner. Pete asked Chas Newby The Blackjacks Bass player if would he stand in for Stu. Chas agreed and a date was set for their first date in Liverpool. Their first date in the UK. The 17th of December 1960 at the Casbah Coffee Club, but there is a problem. The Beatles have no equipment. It is still in Hamburg. Mo books Gene Day and the Jango Beats to play (AKA Earl Preston and the TT's). Will they lend their equipment to The Beatles. They agree.

The Casbah is jammed to the rafters. The posters on the walls state "The Beatles Direct From Hamburg Germany" will be playing. The Casbah crowd are excited. The Casbah has gone international. There is a German group coming to play.
Gene Day and the Jango Beats performed. They're a good group (Who later became Earl Preston and the TT's) and they are well received. It's time for The Beatles..."

So..., no Best's Premier and no McCartney's Elpico + Rosetti by 17 December 1960??  

Again, Harrison's letter to Sutcliffe (="...come back sooner..."), dated 16 December 1960, makes sense. And again, the Rosetti Solid 7 converted to a three strings 'bass', by 31 December 1960, also makes sense...

Xosé

[Xose]

English bass players in Hamburg by August 1960

- At Top Ten, Peter Wharton plays a Double Bass:

...The Jets arrive in Hamburg with a Framus Star Bass on 5 June 1960:



On 30 June, their contract with Bruno Koschmider to play at the Kaiserkeller was extended for a further four weeks, but they only performed until 6 July, as Peter Eckhorn offered them to play at his new club, the Top Ten, offering them a wage increase of 5 Deutschemarks per day and per person, including superior lodgings in the building's attic. The opening took place on Saturday 9 July 1960, and soon afterwards a Double Bass was purchased by Peter Eckhorn for the club:





...

- At Kaiserkeller, Brian Griffiths plays bass lines with his guitar:

... Brian Griffiths has posted today:

"...Phil Whitehead didn't join us until we come back from Hamburg. I played all the bass riffs on my guitar along with the solo work. Also in the band in Hamburg was Stan Foster on piano. He left when we returned to Liverpool. Geeeez -- I should write a book! The first night the Beatles arrived I met Lennon on the stairs in the Kaiserkeller and he asked me who was playing bass for us, when I replied it was me, he was confused for a second, but I had been playing that way with the Seniors for about a year..."

IMHO, it's very interesting that Lennon asked for the bass player...

- At Indra, Stuart Sutcliffe plays his brunnette Höfner 500/5:



Amazing... 

Xosé