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Author Topic: Beatles as innovators  (Read 19780 times)

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nimrod

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Re: Beatles as innovators
« Reply #140 on: December 16, 2010, 02:26:51 AM »

I don't think Paul told George what to play on his own tracks. I think George was frustrated with Paul on a number of issues though by the time they broke up.

Its what splits groups up though isnt it, when one member starts telling the others how to play

Roger Waters did it on The Wall & The Final Cut, Keith Richards did it with Bill Wyman and Brian Jones, surely paul ended up playing lead because George wouldnt do what Paul asked him to do ie play guitar by numbers, Is imagine George got really fed up with it
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Musicfan67

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Re: Beatles as innovators
« Reply #141 on: December 16, 2010, 02:35:15 AM »

well as usual musicfan- i respect your opinion but youre completely out of your mind. lol
first off the drums have nothing to do with ringo - paul wrote the drum track and told him what to play
-
secondly, forget 'what youre doing' - that beat is a phil spector trademark beat that goes back to 63
its the girlgroup wall of sound beat
bum . .  bum bum BUM  bum . . bum bum BUM
here's the ronnettes - who met with, toured with and influenced the beatles
Be my baby - The Ronettes



Well, I disagree with you and I know Paul was the one who suggested the drum pattern. Paul was looking for a heavy drum sound but the drum pattern, the broken drum pattern maybe slightly but the drum fills are nothing at all like Phil Spector Wall of Sound.
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Hello Goodbye

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Re: Beatles as innovators
« Reply #142 on: December 16, 2010, 03:12:36 AM »

I don't know...they sound the pretty much the same to me



What You're Doing-Beatles for Sale


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Hello Goodbye

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Re: Beatles as innovators
« Reply #143 on: December 16, 2010, 03:13:30 AM »

This guy liked that drum pattern too...

Billy Joel 1976 Say Goodbye To Hollywood
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Re: Beatles as innovators
« Reply #144 on: December 16, 2010, 03:16:45 AM »

I like this thread.  ;D

Me too.  It's groovy!  ;)
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Re: Beatles as innovators
« Reply #145 on: December 16, 2010, 03:50:05 AM »

-
i could be wrong and maybe someone older can tell me . .
-
but i think there was this tongue in cheek throwback nostalgia trend in the mid 60s where young people made tinpan alley/old timey vaudville type music cool again
-
to my belief there is a 20 year throwback=cool factor
i.e.
in the 70's - 50's nostalgia became cool (american grafitti, happy days, sha na na, grease)
in the 80's - there was a 60's rock sound revival (rasberry beret by prince for example, the monkees comeback)
in the 90's - a 70's fad with release of films like dazed and confused, that 70s show . .
-
today alot of new groups (rap and otherwise) are remaking 80's new wave classics and kids are wearing members only jackets with irony
----------------
anyway..
davy jones showed that nostalgic music style in a few numbers where he had the straw hat and cane...
another example of that old music=cool trend was lady godiva by peter and gordon which preceeds honey pie
1966
Lady Godiva - Peter & Gordon
-
maybe someone who was alive back then can confirm or refute this theory- or shed light on it  ;D


Yeah, nyfan, that happened in the 60s alright...



The Monkees Manhattan Style "Look Out (Here Comes Tomorrow)" (The video's owner prevents external embedding)



Winchester Cathedral The New Vaudeville Band


Rudy Vallee - "You're Just Another Memory"
« Last Edit: December 16, 2010, 05:00:10 AM by Hello Goodbye »
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Hello Goodbye

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Re: Beatles as innovators
« Reply #146 on: December 16, 2010, 04:21:31 AM »

to my belief there is a 20 year throwback=cool factor


Sometimes it's 30 years nyfan...

Bette Midler boogie woogie bugle boy


Andrews Sisters' "Boogie Woogie Bugle Boy Of Company B"



;)
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nyfan(41)

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Re: Beatles as innovators
« Reply #147 on: December 16, 2010, 04:23:40 AM »

^^ cool !  ;yes
-
-
hey.... anyone ever notice that kevin always starts awesome threads ?  ha2ha
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Bobber

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Re: Beatles as innovators
« Reply #148 on: December 16, 2010, 08:07:07 AM »

Its what splits groups up though isnt it, when one member starts telling the others how to play

Roger Waters did it on The Wall & The Final Cut, Keith Richards did it with Bill Wyman and Brian Jones, surely paul ended up playing lead because George wouldnt do what Paul asked him to do ie play guitar by numbers, Is imagine George got really fed up with it

That's a bit short sighted to say. There were a lot of things that made The Beatles break up. Paul played an occasional lead guitar every now and then. Another Girl, Taxman, Good Morning (I think).
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Bobber

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Re: Beatles as innovators
« Reply #149 on: December 16, 2010, 08:11:46 AM »

Sometimes it's 30 years nyfan...


I'm not sure whether you can say it's a rule. It happens every now and then. I'm pretty sure there's always bands and artists looking back. The Jam in the late '70's were looking back only 15 years or so.
Although, there some kind of pattern. This is from the mid 70's

5| Robin Sarstedt - My Resistance Is Low (TOTP 6-05-1976)
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nimrod

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Re: Beatles as innovators
« Reply #150 on: December 16, 2010, 01:12:36 PM »

That's a bit short sighted to say. There were a lot of things that made The Beatles break up. Paul played an occasional lead guitar every now and then. Another Girl, Taxman, Good Morning (I think).

I am short sighted  ;)

Ive heard John say that Paul 'took over' the band many times and there was resentment from George, I think Paul saw himself as the musical director of the band later on, in fact I think John described Let It Be as the Paul movie, or something like that.
Having played in many bands over the years I often experienced certain people try to take over and be the boss, it usually leads to confrontation and eventual break up. Im not saying that that was THE reason they broke up buy its one of them Im sure
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Musicfan67

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Re: Beatles as innovators
« Reply #151 on: December 16, 2010, 04:43:41 PM »

I don't know...they sound the pretty much the same to me

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzhbGaCwBzs#

What You're Doing-Beatles for Sale




You know what you can pick out similiar things in every song but even the drum patterns you are talking about are not really the same. As for "Ticket To Ride" the beat of that song is more in line with "Tomorrow Never Knows" except there is actually drum rolls whereas "Tomorrow Never Knows' is basically a human drum loop.  


"Ticket To Ride" Ringo doesn't play the song the same all the way. The choruses are all played differetnly. Also by the end the tambourine goes into a double time beat against the snare playing a straight rock beat. The beat is actually closer to a polyrhythm.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2010, 04:58:11 PM by Musicfan67 »
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Musicfan67

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Re: Beatles as innovators
« Reply #152 on: December 16, 2010, 04:57:06 PM »

-
i could be wrong and maybe someone older can tell me . .
-
but i think there was this tongue in cheek throwback nostalgia trend in the mid 60s where young people made tinpan alley/old timey vaudville type music cool again
-
to my belief there is a 20 year throwback=cool factor
i.e.
in the 70's - 50's nostalgia became cool (american grafitti, happy days, sha na na, grease)
in the 80's - there was a 60's rock sound revival (rasberry beret by prince for example, the monkees comeback)
in the 90's - a 70's fad with release of films like dazed and confused, that 70s show . .
-
today alot of new groups (rap and otherwise) are remaking 80's new wave classics and kids are wearing members only jackets with irony
----------------
anyway..
davy jones showed that nostalgic music style in a few numbers where he had the straw hat and cane...
another example of that old music=cool trend was lady godiva by peter and gordon which preceeds honey pie
1966
Lady Godiva - Peter & Gordon
-
maybe someone who was alive back then can confirm or refute this theory- or shed light on it  ;D


Well, "Honey Pie" goes back further than 20 years and those scratches on the record make it sound authentic really. The song goes to the 1920s jazz style, it featured five saxophones and two clarinets. You have other songs that go back it time like "Till There Is You", "Michelle", "When I'm 64" and "Goodnight" but to be honest I am not of fan of this side of the Beatles music. As it is McCartney’s taste for Tin Pan Alley pop. His acoustic-based
cover of “Till There Was You,” from Broadway play The Music Man, and "A Taste of Honey" date back in 1963.


« Last Edit: December 16, 2010, 05:06:04 PM by Musicfan67 »
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nyfan(41)

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Re: Beatles as innovators
« Reply #153 on: December 16, 2010, 06:03:20 PM »

Well, "Honey Pie" goes back further than 20 years and those scratches on the record make it sound authentic really. The song goes to the 1920s jazz style, it featured five saxophones and two clarinets. You have other songs that go back it time like "Till There Is You", "Michelle", "When I'm 64" and "Goodnight" but to be honest I am not of fan of this side of the Beatles music. As it is McCartney’s taste for Tin Pan Alley pop. His acoustic-based
cover of “Till There Was You,” from Broadway play The Music Man, and "A Taste of Honey" date back in 1963.

and cant forget the worst/(best?) offender-> maxwells silver hammer
i can take that style of beatles song in appropriate doses - if there are 'rock' songs to break it up -
-
but taking it back to nimrod's comments, paul's occasional tendency towards "corny" songs may have been a factor in the beatles demise
george or whoever may not have minded being musically directed what to play if the project wasn't a song they considered 'fruity' (<-george's word for maxwell slvr hammr)
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Musicfan67

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Re: Beatles as innovators
« Reply #154 on: December 16, 2010, 06:21:29 PM »

and cant forget the worst/(best?) offender-> maxwells silver hammer
i can take that style of beatles song in appropriate doses - if there are 'rock' songs to break it up -
-
but taking it back to nimrod's comments, paul's occasional tendency towards "corny" songs may have been a factor in the beatles demise
george or whoever may not have minded being musically directed what to play if the project wasn't a song they considered 'fruity' (<-george's word for maxwell slvr hammr)

As you can tell I love the Beatles but this side of their music I can do without except for "Till There Was You" because of George guitar playing is why I like that track. "Maxwell Silver Hammer" and "Obli Obla Da" drove Lennon and Harrison crazy and I can hear why.
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nyfan(41)

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Re: Beatles as innovators
« Reply #155 on: December 16, 2010, 08:05:07 PM »

speaking of beatles innovations... just thought of another one
-
even though it failed - wasn't the whole apple corp. thing an innovation?
-
-
that's really common now. especially in rap- where the artist starts their own label that also has other artists, a clothing line, other nonmusic products etc etc
-

(such as how the beatles started their own label for their music - [with a parent company] - that also had other artists, an electronics division, film division etc)
« Last Edit: December 16, 2010, 08:11:05 PM by nyfan(41) »
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Re: Beatles as innovators
« Reply #156 on: December 17, 2010, 12:38:22 AM »

^

I think they were the first to do that, nyfan.

But they weren't the first to put on tuxedos and use a staircase in a music video...




Look Out (Here Comes Tomorrow)   1966




Your Mother Should Know   1967


OK, The Monkees were going up and The Beatles were going down.  ;)




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nyfan(41)

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Re: Beatles as innovators
« Reply #157 on: December 17, 2010, 01:29:54 AM »

i thought both scenes were an homage to ...  umm...... was it......busby berkeley(?)
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Hello Goodbye

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Re: Beatles as innovators
« Reply #158 on: December 31, 2010, 05:08:44 AM »

i thought both scenes were an homage to ...  umm...... was it......busby berkeley(?)


Oh yeah!

Gold Diggers of 1935 (Part Two)

Lullaby Of Broadway


It looks like Busby Berkeley invented both The Monkees and The Beatles!

 ;D
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Bobber

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Re: Beatles as innovators
« Reply #159 on: May 29, 2013, 02:19:33 PM »

They invented planking.

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