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Author Topic: Beatles under a microscope - With The Beatles  (Read 14590 times)

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nimrod

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Re: Beatles under a microscope - With The Beatles
« Reply #40 on: March 29, 2011, 04:42:36 AM »

It's not easy trying to sound like Smokey.


so why bother ?????

Im sure the mood j & P were in they couldve written an original to fill the gap

Till There Was You is a cutsie song, I never understood they turned down 'How Do You Do It' because it wasnt Beatles enough so what is Beatles (Cavern/Reeperbahn rock band in leathers) about TTWY ?
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Hello Goodbye

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Re: Beatles under a microscope - With The Beatles
« Reply #41 on: March 29, 2011, 05:10:26 AM »

I never understood they turned down 'How Do You Do It' because it wasnt Beatles enough so what is Beatles (Cavern/Reeperbahn rock band in leathers) about TTWY ?

Aye, there's the rub!  They were going commercial, produced and managed.  That was their destiny.
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nyfan(41)

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Re: Beatles under a microscope - With The Beatles
« Reply #42 on: March 29, 2011, 10:10:19 AM »

i'd read that they used to play that one from early and they had learned it to impress people - i think paul called it their parlour piece in an interview
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nyfan(41)

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Re: Beatles under a microscope - With The Beatles
« Reply #43 on: March 29, 2011, 01:35:31 PM »

i'd read that they used to play that one from early and they had learned it to impress people - i think paul called it their parlour piece in an interview
-
nyfan you idiot - the song paul called their parlour piece was a classical song that ended up as the guitar part for blackbird !
 ;sorry ha2ha
-
but anyway,
the beatles always had a versitile repertoire even from hamburg and before.... they seemingly had love for all genres.....  paul was basically raised on jazz standards, showtunes etc . .
-
and even for those who find it not 'rock' enough . . . it definitely served the purpose of quelling naysayers and showing their musical talent ! don't forget, besides george's solo -> john is playing that progression with all those jazz chords with great competence and musicality
(and of course paul's vocal is formidable, SPOT ON and a hit with the females)
-
truthfully, i think they included it on the album because they used to get a big response to it playing live
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nimrod

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Re: Beatles under a microscope - With The Beatles
« Reply #44 on: March 30, 2011, 09:17:06 AM »

Quote
it definitely served the purpose of quelling naysayers and showing their musical talent ! don't forget

thats very true nyfan
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7 of 13

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Re: Beatles under a microscope - With The Beatles
« Reply #45 on: March 30, 2011, 04:38:55 PM »

so why bother ?????

Im sure the mood j & P were in they couldve written an original to fill the gap

Till There Was You is a cutsie song, I never understood they turned down 'How Do You Do It' because it wasnt Beatles enough so what is Beatles (Cavern/Reeperbahn rock band in leathers) about TTWY ?
i have never heard how do you do it. the cavern club was probably another cup of noodles, as far as the audience goes. and was probably where the beatles put it all together.  ;)
« Last Edit: March 30, 2011, 04:41:24 PM by 7 of 13 »
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day tripper yeah

7 of 13

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Re: Beatles under a microscope - With The Beatles
« Reply #46 on: March 30, 2011, 04:46:16 PM »

actually it is a little complicated - though seemingly simple
-
in that, through verse, chorus and break,  it dances back and forth between the 1/4/5 chords in the dominant key of Gmajor and the 1/4/5 chords in the relative minor key of Eminor
...
to me that gives it alot of tension and resolution and happy/sad emotional shifts
-
but i kind of assumed that George had just learned, lifted and altered this family of chords from one of the many songs the beatles learned and covered in their early days . .

also when george starts singing, the song isn't on the root chord as many (most?) (simple?) songs do... it just throws you into the melody a little disoriented adding to the frenetic vibe -
...
for you music heads - the verse's chord progression is:   Bminor... A.... G... Eminor
so mentally as george plays it, the Eminor is phrased like an afterthought to the dominant G . . kind of a fake out when you thought he had landed on the 1 chord (G major)
and therefore.... is the Bminor the minor 3 chord in the key of Gmajor...... or the 5 chord in the key of Eminor
total fake out, lol
george's sensibility is dark and naturally askew (in my opinion) . .  which i like
 ha2ha

...
maybe more in the rhythm than the chords, but this song always reminds me of the shiek of araby

thank you nyfan(41). i was going to say that he squeezes alot of emotion out of a few not so simple chord changes, and a more or less direct pentatonic melody. a very interesting device that G major/e minor chord progression. every bit sounds like an integral part of the song, the lead break just rips, total economy through and through, typical george. the song never slows down for a minute, takes your breath away, as it were. and the guitar/bass intro coupled with the clave rhythm is innovative, to me that is complicated structure, i'm speaking as a hand drummer and guitarist here, and it does not disappoint.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2011, 05:14:29 PM by 7 of 13 »
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nimrod

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Re: Beatles under a microscope - With The Beatles
« Reply #47 on: March 31, 2011, 10:41:45 PM »

nyfan wrote;
"actually it is a little complicated - though seemingly simple-in that, through verse, chorus and break,  it dances back and forth between the 1/4/5 chords in the dominant key of Gmajor and the 1/4/5 chords in the relative minor key of Eminor
also when george starts singing, the song isn't on the root chord as many (most?) (simple?) songs do... it just throws you into the melody a little disoriented adding to the frenetic vibe"


OK, Lets look at Verse 1;

Em                    Bm                  A                 G
Since she's been gone I want no one to talk to me.
Em             Bm                  A                         G
It's not the same but I'm to blame, it's plain to see.
 

so looking at that in the key of Em the singing does start on the root.....then the chorus;

                      
                Em                     A         Em    
I've got no time for you right now, don't bother me.


so still in Em ?........then the bridge/refrain;


            D            Em              D                            Em
I know I'll never be the same if I don't get her back again.
          Bm                 Am     C             Em
Because I know she'll always be the only girl for me.

These are the 3 sections of the song and as far as I can see the song is not in Gmajor but it is in Eminor. Someone might mistakenly say a song is in the key of G when it is actually in the key of Em.
Im not trying to score points against you nyfan but if you look at the song as being in Em it is relatively simple.  ;)







« Last Edit: March 31, 2011, 10:43:47 PM by nimrod »
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nyfan(41)

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Re: Beatles under a microscope - With The Beatles
« Reply #48 on: April 01, 2011, 12:02:58 AM »

nimrod . . i respect you to the maximum (and also the music you posted - for real)
..
-

but here's why i think you are wrong about this  ha2ha
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what the drummer would call the "ONE" . . (the first beat of the first measure) . .
is not the E minor of 'since'....-as what you typed would imply
it's the B minor of "GONE"

the way you typed it it's Em / Bm / A / G . . . but the chord progression that starts the verse is really Bm / A / G / Em

--------------
ok,
breaking it into bars, the song is like this:
(intro)
D / D / Em / Em

(verse)
Bm / A / G / Em
Bm / A / G / G


(chorus)
Em / A / Em / Em

(bridge)
D / D / Em / Em
D / D / Em / Em
Bm / Bm / Am / Am
C / C / Em / Em


-------------------------------

now try and follow my madness,,,,,
it's when the first lyric line of the verse lands and ends on that G (talk to ME) . .  that's what gives the momentary impression that the G is the tonic
-
in fact, in the second line of the verse (Bm / A / G / G )  he stays on the G from "plain to see" till the 4th measure's end like like G is the root chord. check it out


-
then the C and D in the bridge relate to that family of chords because they're the 4 and 5 of Gmajor  (... of which the relative minor key is ,yes, Eminor)
ok, next
you see how there is an Amajor in the verse and chorus but in the bridge it becomes Aminor?
Aminor being the relative minor of C allows the chord progression to move to C (aka the 4 chord in G major) . . .
-
that A in the bridge being minor has it registering  as the minor 2 chord in the Gmajor family as well as the 4 chord to Eminor

(btw, i never said the song was in G . . i said it dances back and forth between 1-4-5 chords of G and 1-4-5 chords of Eminor . . similar to what happens in and i love her)
but nimrod, this is not a basic 1 4 5 "three chord song"
in fact, it's pretty clever for a simple song . . . Admit it, you hate George ha2ha ;sorry
-----------------------------

-
anyway, do i think george knowingly constructed great deceptive music theory in his first song - -not really
do i think george just has a left of center approach that makes this melody, rhythm, chord progression a rough cut gem? most definitely!
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7 of 13

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Re: Beatles under a microscope - With The Beatles
« Reply #49 on: April 01, 2011, 01:16:22 AM »

also when george starts singing, the song isn't on the root chord as many (most?) (simple?) songs do... it just throws you into the melody a little disoriented adding to the frenetic vibe"
the verse does start with a B minor, and i didn't realize there was so much voicing going on, chordwise, in the bridge. thanks nyfan(41).
« Last Edit: April 01, 2011, 01:27:03 AM by 7 of 13 »
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day tripper yeah

nimrod

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Re: Beatles under a microscope - With The Beatles
« Reply #50 on: April 01, 2011, 01:25:57 AM »

Quote
what the drummer would call the "ONE" . . (the first beat of the first measure) . .
is not the E minor of 'since'....-as what you typed would imply
it's the B minor of "GONE"

Yes maybe a drummer would but when George sings 'since' the chord is already Em from the intro section so the song does start with the root  ;D

btw I dont hate George at all  ha2ha I stuck up for him in that review or Sgt Pepper, I said his lyrics on WY&WY were some of the best ever.
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nyfan(41)

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Re: Beatles under a microscope - With The Beatles
« Reply #51 on: April 01, 2011, 01:37:35 AM »

oh yeah that's right - you did . . .
ok, we're all running out of points to disagree on -> time for tkitna to roll out the next album for debate !  ha2ha ;D
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nimrod

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Re: Beatles under a microscope - With The Beatles
« Reply #52 on: April 01, 2011, 01:39:33 AM »

oh yeah that's right - you did . . .
ok, we're all running out of points to disagree on -> time for tkitna to roll out the next album for debate !  ha2ha ;D

I agree nyfan  ha2ha
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peterbell1

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Re: Beatles under a microscope - With The Beatles
« Reply #53 on: April 01, 2011, 11:11:12 AM »

Just been listening to the WTB version of Money (one of my favourite Beatles covers, recorded July '63) alongside their version from a Swedish radio show in October '63 and their version from the Decca audition on 1 Jan 1962.
The Decca one is fairly fast and frenetic and has plenty of energy but by the time they get to the October '63 version the song is just SO powerful. I always thought the Kinks invented heavy metal with You Really Got Me (  ;D ), but I think that Sweden version of Money is ballsier and rockier than just about anything the Kinks did.

MONEY (1962) by the Beatles with Pete Best


The Beatles - Money (That's What I Want) (2009 Mono Remaster)


04 - Money (Swedish Radio Show '63)

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nimrod

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Re: Beatles under a microscope - With The Beatles
« Reply #54 on: April 02, 2011, 12:12:57 AM »

the verse does start with a B minor, and i didn't realize there was so much voicing going on, chordwise, in the bridge. thanks nyfan(41).


no it doesnt  ???

when george sing 'since' the chord is Eminor, it doesnt move to Bm until he sings 'gone'
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7 of 13

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Re: Beatles under a microscope - With The Beatles
« Reply #55 on: April 02, 2011, 05:43:55 PM »

no it doesnt  ???

when george sing 'since' the chord is Eminor, it doesnt move to Bm until he sings 'gone'
yeah you're right, technically yes. but i guess those are off beats like nyfan(41) was describing, the structure is as how he described it.  it is a highly syncopated polished gem of a song.
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day tripper yeah

Bobber

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Re: Beatles under a microscope - With The Beatles
« Reply #56 on: April 02, 2011, 06:49:25 PM »

yeah you're right, technically yes. but i guess those are off beats like nyfan(41) was describing, the structure is as how he described it.  it is a highly syncopated polished gem of a song.

That's one way to talk yourself out of trouble. ha2ha
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nyfan(41)

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Re: Beatles under a microscope - With The Beatles
« Reply #57 on: April 02, 2011, 07:35:16 PM »

(intro)
D / D / Em / Em

(verse)
Bm / A / G / Em
Bm / A / G / G


(chorus)
Em / A / Em / Em

(bridge)
D / D / Em / Em
D / D / Em / Em
Bm / Bm / Am / Am
C / C / Em / Em



 ha2ha
 
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7 of 13

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Re: Beatles under a microscope - With The Beatles
« Reply #58 on: April 02, 2011, 11:45:47 PM »

That's one way to talk yourself out of trouble. ha2ha
well i can see him saying that as a bass player, i guess.. i just know the "hang time" on the E minor chord is rather small..

but the basic progression is as nyfan(41) has stated :
 
B minor
A minor
G major
E minor


that in itself is what makes this song so interesting.
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day tripper yeah

nyfan(41)

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Re: Beatles under a microscope - With The Beatles
« Reply #59 on: April 03, 2011, 12:00:21 AM »

but the basic progression is as nyfan(41) has stated :
 
B minor
A minor
G major
E minor


(  A major, not minor . . . . . . . .  but i'm willing to call it a L,M,N,O,P chord if that shuts us all up  ;D  )
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