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Author Topic: Ramírez + Elpico + pickup for Spanish guitar  (Read 5103 times)

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Xose

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Ramírez + Elpico + pickup for Spanish guitar
« on: March 31, 2011, 01:23:18 PM »

This pickup was intended for a nylon guitar and was purchased in Barcelona ca. 1983:





The brace has the following inscription:

"...Guitar Mic / Menorm..."

I think it's British made, but I'm not sure...

A few days ago, I tried my Menorm pickup with my Ramírez and my Elpico, and I like very much the sound emaning from them.

Inner of the devices that produce the sound I'm talking about:







My Ramírez and one of my Double Bass bows:



BTW, a question for the UK members:

As far as I know, neither Lennon, nor Harrison, did use a "parrandera"* when playing Spanish guitars while standing...

Could this mean that this device was not known in the UK by those times??

Thanks in advance and best wishes!! :wink:

Xosé

* This is one of the names given in Spain to the strap used to hold the Spanish guitar when playing standing. Other names are "cordón" and also "correa". Here there are two examples:



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Xose

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Re: Ramírez + Elpico + pickup for Spanish guitar
« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2011, 02:43:29 PM »

Lennon, Ramírez, capo and fingerpicking by December 1968:

John Lennon - Everybody Had A Hard Year


Yoko Ono: "Song For John" (Demo 1968)


'Julia', recorded on 13 October 1968, was one of the first songs where Lennon used the "Donovan" fingerpicking for the first time at..., wasn't it??:

Later, he used the same technique on at least two more Beatles songs: 'I've Got A Feeling' and 'Octopus Garden', as well as 'Dear Prudence', 'Sun King', and 'Happiness Is a Warm Gun'..., correct??


Xosé
« Last Edit: April 01, 2011, 02:47:28 PM by Xose »
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Xose

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Re: Ramírez + Elpico + pickup for Spanish guitar
« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2011, 09:16:30 PM »

Quote from: Xosé
This pickup was intended for a nylon guitar and was purchased in Barcelona ca. 1983:





The brace has the following inscription:

"...Guitar Mic / Menorm..."

I think it's British made, but I'm not sure...


No hints about this brand??  ???

Best!! ;)

Xosé
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Bobber

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Re: Ramírez + Elpico + pickup for Spanish guitar
« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2011, 07:00:20 AM »

No hints about this brand??  ???

Best!! ;)

Xosé

Couldn't find anything. Sorry.
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Xose

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Re: Ramírez + Elpico + pickup for Spanish guitar
« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2011, 08:16:13 AM »

Couldn't find anything. Sorry.

Oh, I see...

Thanks anyway!! ;)

Xosé
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An Apple Beatle

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Re: Ramírez + Elpico + pickup for Spanish guitar
« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2011, 09:23:35 AM »

It's nothing I have come across before Xose. Love that everybody had a hard year clip. So it seems both Lennon and McCartney got a lot of mileage out of the Donovan finger picking techniques which he learnt himself from Burt Yansch?
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Xose

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Re: Ramírez + Elpico + pickup for Spanish guitar
« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2011, 09:51:51 AM »

Hello An Apple Beatle,

Quote from: An Apple Beatle
It's nothing I have come across before Xose. Love that everybody had a hard year clip. So it seems both Lennon and McCartney got a lot of mileage out of the Donovan finger picking techniques which he learnt himself from Burt Yansch?

Well. As far as I know, it was Lennon & McCartney the ones who learned that technique from Donovan while in India in 1968. If I'm not wrong, it wasn't so influential on Harrison playing...

The interesting point for me, is that from August 1968 onwards Lennon used the "Donovan fingerpicking" very often, and not surprinsingly with the Ramírez borrowed from Harrison...

Best!! ;)

Xosé
« Last Edit: April 14, 2011, 10:04:08 AM by Xose »
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peterbell1

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Re: Ramírez + Elpico + pickup for Spanish guitar
« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2011, 09:13:21 AM »

It's nothing I have come across before Xose. Love that everybody had a hard year clip. So it seems both Lennon and McCartney got a lot of mileage out of the Donovan finger picking techniques which he learnt himself from Burt Yansch?

I think Paul took what he learned from Donovan and moved it forward a bit, so his fingerpicking songs like Blackbird, Mother Natures Son or Junk tend to be slightly different from each other. He is clever enough musically to learn and adapt and progress as he goes along.

John, however, seems to have taken the Donovan thing and just copied it each time he used it. Both those clips above (Everybody Had a Hard Year and Song For John) sound like the song Julia, which is fairly similar in terms of the finger-picking pattern to the first section of Happiness is a Warm Gun. So John was less flexible and adventurous with his playing.

The fact that Paul is a better musician than John is not new information, but I thought it was cool how the Donovan finger-picking thing highlights it quite clearly. And I still love John's finger-picking songs, even if he wasn't adventurous - some of my favourite Beatles songs were done by John and Paul on the White Album.
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An Apple Beatle

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Re: Ramírez + Elpico + pickup for Spanish guitar
« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2011, 10:06:31 AM »

Good points. I see John as a dabbler, building up phrases and patterns that might come in useful later, whereas Paul would imitate, perfect and correct himself more in a subtle manner in his song-writing approach.

But I think Bert was the master of them all in the world of finger picking. :)

http://www.musicstack.com/records-cds/bert+jansch
An amazing guitarist, Bert Jansch was a key player in the nascent years of the British folk scene. A friend of and heavy influence on Donovan (see "Bert's Blues" or "House of Jansch"), as well as Neil Young and Jimmy Page, his recording career began with one microphone, a bedroom, and an acoustic guitar. His stark, finger-picking instrumentals found him an audience with fellow guitarist John Renbourn, an association which eventually led to their legendary work with Pentangle. His ability to mix classical and jazz guitar with American acoustic blues has made his early records a staple of virtually every up-and-coming guitarist.
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Xose

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Re: Ramírez + Elpico + pickup for Spanish guitar
« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2011, 01:55:50 PM »

I agree with both of you, regarding the different appraches of Lennon & McCartney to "Donovan's" fingerpicking.

But the question remains: Lennon uses that style from -at least- August 1968 to -at least- Summer 1969. And, by Autumn 1968*, he uses that fingerpicking with Harrison/Voormann's Ramírez. This is the most interesting point for me by now...

Best!! ;)

Xosé

* Harrison/Voormann's Ramírez is seen on Lennon hands for the first time in some photos taken at Room No. 1, Second West Ward, Queen Charlotte Hospital, Hammersmith, London, when Yoko's pregnancy and subsequent miscarriage from 4th November until 25th November 1968 (=the miscarriage was on the 21st...)
« Last Edit: April 15, 2011, 02:46:38 PM by Xose »
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Xose

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Re: Ramírez + Elpico + pickup for Spanish guitar
« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2011, 09:24:31 PM »

Quote from: Xosé
...Harrison/Voormann's Ramírez is seen on Lennon hands for the first time in some photos taken at Room No. 1, Second West Ward, Queen Charlotte Hospital, Hammersmith, London, when Yoko's pregnancy and subsequent miscarriage from 4th November until 25th November 1968 (=the miscarriage was on the 21st...)


These are the photos at the hospital whith the Ramírez:





But..., when was the Ramírez seen for the last time before that?? On Ringo's hands, at Abbey Road Studio 2, on 16 February 1965:



And..., after December 1968 at Kenwood on Lennon's hands?? The guitar returned back to Harrison. This photo is from the Summer of 1969, and is taken at 3, Savile Row:



The whereabouts of this guitar are fascinating...

Xosé
« Last Edit: April 15, 2011, 09:26:41 PM by Xose »
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Xose

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Re: Ramírez + Elpico + pickup for Spanish guitar
« Reply #11 on: December 31, 2011, 12:21:51 AM »

Definitely, Japan:



And this photo was taken on 23 June 1969 at 3 Savile Row:



Xosé
« Last Edit: December 31, 2011, 12:26:05 AM by Xose »
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Hello Goodbye

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Re: Ramírez + Elpico + pickup for Spanish guitar
« Reply #12 on: January 01, 2012, 12:56:56 AM »

Definitely, Japan:



And this photo was taken on 23 June 1969 at 3 Savile Row:





Xosé,

It looks like the KG-5 classical guitar pickup is still being made.  I still can't make out the name...

http://velezimports.com/gtr.htm
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Xose

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Re: Ramírez + Elpico + pickup for Spanish guitar
« Reply #13 on: January 01, 2012, 09:08:00 PM »

Xosé,

It looks like the KG-5 classical guitar pickup is still being made.  I still can't make out the name...

http://velezimports.com/gtr.htm


Thank you, Hello Goodbye!! ;)

When did this model start to be produced??

Best!! ;)

Xosé
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Re: Ramírez + Elpico + pickup for Spanish guitar
« Reply #14 on: January 02, 2012, 05:47:53 AM »

Thank you, Hello Goodbye!! ;)

When did this model start to be produced??

Best!! ;)

Xosé


I really don't know anything about this pickup, Xosé.  I Googled "KG-5 Classical Guitar Magnetic Microphone Pickup" and that website came up.

Here's a recent eBay listing for it should you need another...

http://www.ebay.nl/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220887680096&clk_rvr_id=303753335274






Have a Happy and Healthy New Year

Barry
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Xose

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Re: Ramírez + Elpico + pickup for Spanish guitar
« Reply #15 on: January 02, 2012, 09:17:58 AM »

Thank you very much, Barry!! ;)

Have a happy new year!! ;)

Xosé
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Xose

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Re: Ramírez + Elpico + pickup for Spanish guitar
« Reply #16 on: January 28, 2012, 09:50:27 PM »

My Elpico AC-52 has Serial Number 85457. On the speaker, I have found the following data:

- A sticker that reads "...ELAC / Made In England..."

- On the chassis, there is this code: 59 T / 27

- On the cone there is this code: / 02

Any hints about datation??

Thanks in advance and best wishes!!  ;)

Xosé
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