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Author Topic: Things the Beatles were beaten  (Read 9036 times)

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Hello Goodbye

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Re: Things the Beatles were beaten
« Reply #20 on: April 09, 2011, 02:24:01 AM »

Ive had the Fugs albums since the 70's HG, loved them along with the Mothers, Love, Iron Butterfly etc

David Peel And The Lower East Side too?
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Hombre_de_ningun_lugar

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Re: Things the Beatles were beaten
« Reply #21 on: April 09, 2011, 02:55:16 AM »

Well, Nowhere Man, we considered Sunshine Superman psychedelic back in 1966.  And we already had the term for it.

In late 1965 Grace Slick wrote this song and performed it with The Great Society...

The Great Society White Rabbit

We called that psychedelic too.


Maybe according to those early standards "Sunshine Superman" was considered psychedelic in 1966, but I think it wasn't in comparison to true psychedelic music that came later.

Thanks for that video of the Great Society. I'm a huge Jefferson Airplane fan. That early version of "White Rabbit" sounds rare, that's true, but I wouldn't call it psychedelic too, just my opinion. The definitive Jefferson Airplane version is certainly pure psychedelia, acid rock at its best (can't beat that Jack Casady's thunderous bass).
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Hombre_de_ningun_lugar

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Re: Things the Beatles were beaten
« Reply #22 on: April 09, 2011, 03:00:23 AM »

I'm posting the two songs I mentioned. I think nothing sounded like that in early 1966, that's why I say they were the first true psychedelic songs in rock history, despite other proto-psychedelic tunes that came before.

Byrds - Eight Miles High (RARE 1967 clip)


Yardbirds - "Shape of things"
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Re: Things the Beatles were beaten
« Reply #23 on: April 09, 2011, 03:16:35 AM »

Thanks for that video of the Great Society. I'm a huge Jefferson Airplane fan. That early version of "White Rabbit" sounds rare, that's true, but I wouldn't call it psychedelic too, just my opinion. The definitive Jefferson Airplane version is certainly pure psychedelia, acid rock at its best (can't beat that Jack Casady's thunderous bass).

But remember, that performance of White Rabbit by The Great Society was live at The Matrix.  There were no studio effects in that recording.
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Re: Things the Beatles were beaten
« Reply #24 on: April 09, 2011, 03:31:21 AM »

But remember, that performance of White Rabbit by The Great Society was live at The Matrix.  There were no studio effects in that recording.

Yes, I notice it was live. It sounds like later live acid rock songs by Jefferson Airplane actually. But I guess that studio effects are necessary for true psychedelia.
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Re: Things the Beatles were beaten
« Reply #25 on: April 09, 2011, 03:37:51 AM »

Thanks for that video of the Great Society. I'm a huge Jefferson Airplane fan. That early version of "White Rabbit" sounds rare, that's true, but I wouldn't call it psychedelic too, just my opinion. The definitive Jefferson Airplane version is certainly pure psychedelia, acid rock at its best (can't beat that Jack Casady's thunderous bass).

...as for the origins of psychedelia, beyond that that term is poorly defined... i would look to the folk rock and acid rock bands out of san franscisco during that time frame, think about the free speech movement and flower power.

 ;yes

The Great Society was part of the San Francisco Bay Area acid rock scene in 1965.  They were part of the development of "Psychedelic Rock."  I think the question of which song was the first psychedelic rock song will be debated forever.  I just tossed out these songs to provoke some further thought.
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Re: Things the Beatles were beaten
« Reply #26 on: April 09, 2011, 03:43:49 AM »

But I guess that studio effects are necessary for true psychedelia.

For that reason I would say that live performances of Eight Miles High and Shape Of Things would sound less psychedelic than their studio counterparts.
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Re: Things the Beatles were beaten
« Reply #27 on: April 09, 2011, 03:55:04 AM »

The definitive Jefferson Airplane version is certainly pure psychedelia, acid rock at its best (can't beat that Jack Casady's thunderous bass).


But I guess that studio effects are necessary for true psychedelia.



Jefferson Airplane White Rabbit (Live At Woodstock 1969)


See what I mean?
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Re: Things the Beatles were beaten
« Reply #28 on: April 09, 2011, 04:02:01 AM »

And what you meant too, Nowhere Man.  ;)
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Re: Things the Beatles were beaten
« Reply #29 on: April 09, 2011, 04:07:33 AM »

For that reason I would say that live performances of Eight Miles High and Shape Of Things would sound less psychedelic than their studio counterparts.

I agree. And the Beatles were the masters of the studio, so my point was that they were beaten when we talk about creating psychedelia in studio. Of course they soon made the definitive psychedelic song with "Tomorrow Never Knows" (first song recorded for Revolver, in April 1966).
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Re: Things the Beatles were beaten
« Reply #30 on: April 09, 2011, 04:15:11 AM »

Exactly!

We had a recent thread entitled Beatles As Innovators:  http://www.dmbeatles.com/forums/index.php?topic=11016.0

I won't merge these two threads because I feel there are some interesting nuances.
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Re: Things the Beatles were beaten
« Reply #31 on: April 09, 2011, 05:10:04 AM »

To digress just a bit, when Grace Slick was performing with The Great Society, Jefferson Airplane's female singer was Signe Anderson...





Here's Jefferson Airplane doing Let's Get Together...

Jefferson Airplane "Let's get together"




...and by the author, Chet Powers (aka Dino Valenti)...

Dino Valenti - Let's Get Together (1964)


1964



The Youngbloods recorded it in 1967.  It was a minor hit that year, but a much bigger hit for them in 1969...

The Youngbloods - Get Together

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Re: Things the Beatles were beaten
« Reply #32 on: April 09, 2011, 05:14:07 AM »



"Feed your head?  I never said that.  Jefferson Airplane made that up!"
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Re: Things the Beatles were beaten
« Reply #33 on: April 09, 2011, 02:37:30 PM »

I really love their debut record Jefferson Airplane Takes Off. It also featured future Moby Grape's member Skip Spence on drums. Signe Anderson was a great singer too; I believe she left the band because she was pregnant and wanted a quiet life. This may be her best moment:

Jefferson Airplane "Chauffeur Blues"
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Re: Things the Beatles were beaten
« Reply #34 on: April 09, 2011, 03:11:49 PM »

I know that you already know this, but the Beatles were the first rock band that used intended feed back in record ("I Feel Fine")

Ah, I was sure you were wrong on this, that "Anyway, Anyhow, Anywhere" by the Who was the first in which feedback was used, but you're right -- "I Feel Fine" was first, by a year. 
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Re: Things the Beatles were beaten
« Reply #35 on: April 09, 2011, 03:29:29 PM »

Ah, I was sure you were wrong on this, that "Anyway, Anyhow, Anywhere" by the Who was the first in which feedback was used, but you're right -- "I Feel Fine" was first, by a year. 

I've heard that Pete Townshend was experimenting with feed back before the Beatles did it, but on record the Beatles did it first.
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Re: Things the Beatles were beaten
« Reply #36 on: April 09, 2011, 10:08:42 PM »

I know that you already know this, but the Beatles were the first rock band that used intended feed back in record ("I Feel Fine"), sitar (at least in a prominent rock record, "Norwegian Wood"), fuzz bass ("Think For Yourself"), tape loops (piano recorded at half-speed and played at double-speed in "In My Life"), backwards sounds (vocals in "Rain"; guitar in "I'm Only Sleeping"), Sgt. Pepper's was the first rock album where the songs blend into each other with no breaks, etc. Maybe someone did those things before the Beatles and we (or I) don't know, but I guess that the Beatles didn't know too.


Don't Worry 'Bout Me

Marty Robbins: Don't Worry


Marty Robbins   1961





Grady Martin and his 6-string bass on Don't Worry 'Bout Me





...and ten years earlier...

Rocket 88

Rocket 88 (Original Version) - Ike Turner/Jackie Brenston


Ike Turner   1951




Jesse Knight with his Fender Precision Bass
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Re: Things the Beatles were beaten
« Reply #37 on: April 09, 2011, 10:37:21 PM »

Actually I wasn't sure about the fuzz bass item. Thanks Hello Goodbye.
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Re: Things the Beatles were beaten
« Reply #38 on: April 09, 2011, 11:18:30 PM »

They got the fuzz effect by fooling around with the circuits and tubes in their amps.

I know that you already know this, but the Beatles were the first rock band that used intended feed back in record ("I Feel Fine"), sitar (at least in a prominent rock record, "Norwegian Wood"), fuzz bass ("Think For Yourself"), tape loops (piano recorded at half-speed and played at double-speed in "In My Life"), backwards sounds (vocals in "Rain"; guitar in "I'm Only Sleeping"), Sgt. Pepper's was the first rock album where the songs blend into each other with no breaks, etc. Maybe someone did those things before the Beatles and we (or I) don't know, but I guess that the Beatles didn't know too.


According to Wikipedia, Johnny "Guitar" Watson's ferocious "Space Guitar" of 1954 pioneered guitar feedback and reverb.

Johnny "Guitar" Watson - Space Guitar


                       

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Re: Things the Beatles were beaten
« Reply #39 on: April 09, 2011, 11:34:37 PM »

I know that you already know this, but the Beatles were the first rock band that used intended feed back in record ("I Feel Fine"), sitar (at least in a prominent rock record, "Norwegian Wood"), fuzz bass ("Think For Yourself"), tape loops (piano recorded at half-speed and played at double-speed in "In My Life"), backwards sounds (vocals in "Rain"; guitar in "I'm Only Sleeping"), Sgt. Pepper's was the first rock album where the songs blend into each other with no breaks, etc. Maybe someone did those things before the Beatles and we (or I) don't know, but I guess that the Beatles didn't know too.


The Yardbirds hired a sitar player to play riffs on Heart Full Of Soul.  The sitar version was not released thus making Norwegian Wood the first rock song to feature a sitar.

HEART FULL OF SOUL - SITAR VERSION (THE YARDBIRDS april, 1965)


April, 1965
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