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tkitna

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Beatles under a microscope - HELP!
« on: April 11, 2011, 04:11:06 PM »

Help!

So here we have the transitional album in my opinion. The Beatles were smoking dope and starting to mature somewhat in their music making. There’s a nice blend of  early stuff and some songs that were starting to dictate some growth.


HELP! - I always find myself comparing this song to ‘A Hard Days Night’. Why? I’m not sure. Maybe because they are title songs or maybe it’s the message they both portray. With ‘AHDN’ you have the lads trying to relay how hard they work and how tired they are. With ‘HELP!” you have the desperate plea because they cant take it anymore (John more so on a personal level I guess). Anyways, I’m not one for lyrics or song meanings (purely music for me), but the desperation works here. Its convincing. Even the frantic nature of the song adds to the subject matter. Regardless, moving on. Pauls bass is cool and drives the song along. Acoustic guitar is nice as usual. I like the tambourine during the chorus. Georges guitar tone is good. Johns voice is nice and the song ending is great. Nice song.

The Night Before - This isn’t a great song by any means, but I’ve always had a soft spot for it. Guilty pleasure maybe. Again, Pauls bass is good here too. I’m not crazy about the guitar tone. Hi hat (or ride, I cant tell) noise fills a lot of space and is welcomed. Love Pauls voice. The organ annoys me. At 0:56 in the middle break, Ringo breaks out in a beat that is awfully familiar to ‘I Feel Fine’. The same? Not sure, but it works. Love the background vocals. 1:29 love Pauls ‘Oh Oh Oh’s’ while George comes in with a ‘Yes’. Cool. Weak guitar solo. 1:51 ‘Yeah’ in the background is neat too.

You’ve Got To Hide Your Love Away - Norwegian Wood before Norwegian Wood. That’s how I look at this song. Stripped down and not as personal, but the building block is set. Johns voice is eerily good on this one in my opinion. Acoustic guitar sounds nice. The tambourine on the 2 and 4 has to be there. Song wouldn’t be the same without it. The guitar being played on every word through the chorus is great. Georges acoustic tone is nice. The horns at the end add a ton. Love them. The shaker throughout is cool too.

I Need You - This George song is not a favorite for sure. I hate the volume controlled guitar throughout. Annoying. Background vocals are nice. I don’t like the congas or whatever it is Ringos playing. I do like the cowbell however. I really don’t have a lot to say about this song. Its weak and a definite throwaway in my opinion.

Another Girl - Hate the guitar tone. Ringo kills on the ride cymbal. Love Pauls voice here. Bass chugs along and sounds good. Background vocals are alright, but nothing special. 1:23 mark the voices arent tight together. Shaky. The ending sucks. This song is just ok in my opinion. Filler.

You’re Going To Lose That Girl - Love the tight harmonies. Hate the bongo’s. Their just too much and erratic. I really dig the chorus when George and Paul sing ’Watch What You Do’ and John comes in at the end with a ’Yeah’. Sweet. I don’t know. I’m not very partial to this song either. Its ok and sounds of early Beatles to me. Its decent enough I suppose. Oh yeah, the guitar solo sucks.

Ticket To Ride - This is a good song even if its not one of my favorites. The drum beat is awesome (regardless if Paul told him what to play or not). The guitar tone is great. Rhythm guitar sounds great also. Johns voice sounds really good and the backgrounds are nice too. Like the tambourine in the chorus. The guitar solo that ends the bars is alright, but I’m not a fan for some reason. 2:30 mark, Johns ’Ahhh’ makes the song for me. Love it. On the fence about the falsetto ending. Something different may have been better there, but it works all in all.

Act Naturally - I don’t like Country/Western music so my opinion of this song is biased before I even begin. I do have to say that this song has frustrated me more than any other being a drummer. I’m an open handed player and Ringo’s shuffle here has caused me fits for years. At this point in my life, its as if this song is my arch nemesis. When I try to play the shuffle, I have a left hand full of suck for some reason. I try to double time the hats with both hands. Nope, doesn’t work or sound right. Whatever, its more mental than anything. Moving on, I do like the drumsticks being played on something in the background. Speaking of backgrounds, they don’t even sound like the Beatles. Maybe that’s a good thing. Guitar tone sucks (broken record, yeah I know). Coming back to the guitar, 1:53 mark, what in the hell is that? Horrible. Worst song on the album by far.

Its Only Love - Love Johns raspy voice. Not crazy about the constant guitar strums throughout. Tambourine is nice. 0:41 double tracked voice (or George maybe, I cant tell) isn’t together. Thinking about this though, was that on purpose, because it sounds pretty cool. 1:05 mark the guitar has an obvious mess up (bad note) and he tries it again right after to cover up the mistake, but its just as obvious. It sounds horrible. I don’t know if it was John or George, but it sucked regardless of who played it. I don’t think the organ was needed at all in this song. I think the piano would have been enough and just fine. Ringo plays a hard shuffle here too. I like the sound of Georges voice in the background on this song. Harmonies are good during the chorus. Piano/guitar solo together wasn’t half as bad as I thought it was going to be before I listened to the song. Speaking of the piano, who plays it on this song?  John, Paul, George Martin? Whoever it was,,,kudos.

Tell Me What You See - Weak song. I don’t like the vocals here. I don’t like the backgrounds either come to think of it. Here’s a song that has drums, tambourine, wood blocks, and some other noise making instrument being played at the same time. Too much in my opinion. The organ is ok actually to me here. The lead vocals and backgrounds are shaky throughout the entire song. Why? George Martin should have tightened this song up some. Maybe he didn’t feel it was worth the effort. I can understand that. Humming together at the end sucks and sounds dumb. Song is nothing more than filler.

I’ve Just Seen A Face - Again, I’m not a Country/Western music person. So why do I love this song? Makes no sense to me, but I do. It might be the best song on the album to be honest. Guitars are awesome in both tone and playing. Like Pauls double tracked higher background vocals during the chorus. Applause to George for a fantastic guitar solo. Ringo drives the song. Nice playing. 1:29 mark you can hear Pauls double tracked background vocals singing along faintly before they come in with the full effect. Great song.

Yesterday - I’m still sick of this song. I don’t know which one is worse, ’Imagine’ or this one. I’m not saying they are bad songs, I’m just saying that I seem to hear them 20 times a day somehow. Anyways, Pauls voice is awesome here. George Martins strings throughout are masterful. Gorgeous for the song. Acoustic guitar sounds nice. 0:52 mark Pauls sings with a double tracked background and it isn’t necessary. It should have been left out. Then again, it’s the only time in the song that it happens. Did George Martin overlook this? Hmm. 1:37 the drawn out violin kills me. Super killer and makes the song. Wrapping it up with this tune, I can see why its legendary. It’s a great song. I can also see why I’m sick of it though and why I’m going to be even more sick of it when Paul finally kicks the bucket. This thing is played to death.

Dizzy Miss Lizzy - If somebody ever asked me to name an unconvincing rock song, this would be it. I have never liked it. The Beatles are trying to fool us when playing this one. They try every effort to make it sound interesting and energetic, but they fail on every one of those levels. The ear piercing guitar at the beginning is painful. Makes me cringe when I hear it. Hi hat space filler noise is needed and good. Johns voice tries here, but even he cant pull it off. 0:42 Ringo flat out botches a drum fill. John screams a few times during the song to try to revitalize the energy. It helps, but doesn’t succeed. 1:23 George or John butchers the guitar lead. The screw up is so bad that theres a whole bar of empty space afterwards. Now that’s just horrendous. Amateurs don’t mess up that bad most of the time. 1:45 yet another guitar screw up. Cowbell is cool. 2:04 guess what? Yes, another botch up with the guitar. I like the piano, but not the organ. This song is embarrassing and should have had more care given to it. Its no wonder I don’t like it.


Overall, HELP! Is only a decent album. Yeah, they started smoking weed so maybe they weren’t with it all together, but there’s some shining moments and some not so great moments. Album seems to have a lot of filler in my opinion. More so than I originally thought. With all the warts and glare, I still enjoy it though.

Hombre_de_ningun_lugar

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Re: Beatles under a microscope - HELP!
« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2011, 06:39:01 PM »

I agree with two points. This is the true transitional album, and not Rubber Soul as it's usually said to be (in my opinion Rubber Soul is one of the four true peaks with Revolver, Sgt. Pepper's and Abbey Road). And I also agree that this album has a lot of fillers. But somehow this is still my favourite album among the first five. A Hard Day's Night may be more consistent, with almost every song being very good; but I think that the best material in Help! (title track, "You've Got To Hide Your Love Away", "Ticket To Ride", "Yesterday", despite being overplayed) is better than anything the Beatles did before. This is also the first Beatles album I bought (in cassette format, after watching the movie), so it's also kinda special for me.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2011, 06:41:08 PM by Hombre_de_ningun_lugar »
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tkitna

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Re: Beatles under a microscope - HELP!
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2011, 12:20:40 AM »

Its the first CD I ever bought. I enjoy the album too, but as you said, its not as consistent as some of their others. Its still good though.

glass onion

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Re: Beatles under a microscope - HELP!
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2011, 09:05:19 AM »

ok.......this is the bit where things start to get a bit more interesting in my opinion.the haircuts get bigger.the clothes get cooler.it's all in colour!i think the 'help!' album is not bad.not great,not bad.the title track is excellent.ringo is an absolute colossus.like a half/three quarter shuffle feel,then the two handed matched fill into the chorus....."i've opened up the doors".try it guys.you won't get it nearly as smooth.the night before is ok....it is a ride cymbal todd,and yeah-good spot with the latin beat in the middle 8,probably a copy of 'i feel fine'.something i still cannot play.'hide your love away','lose that girl' are both alright.i have a lot of time for 'i need you',i like the tune but probably because i don't hear it that often.'ticket to ride'=fantastic.'act naturally' is cool...ringo was cool and his songs on the albums were cool.do not mention this shuffle to me.how the hell he plays that so smooth i cannot understand.and then sings-live!check it on the 1965 appearance on ed sullivan.'it's only love' was a john throwaway but i love this song,one of me guilty pleasures.'tell me what you see' is in the same kind of vein and is ok by me.'i've just seen a face' i don't like as much,'yesterday' is one of the greatest ballads ever written (and don't anybody DARE tell me i am talking crap)and 'dizzy miss lizzy is rubbish.so to sum up........all opinion,but mine is this is the best yet.the songs are getting better and the look is getting cooler.john is looking good with a bit of extra weight.the sweet smell of success (and dope) hang in the air.rolls-royces and aston martins are on the gravel drives.brilliant.'the beatles'...the first real band...and still the greatest. 8)
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tkitna

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Re: Beatles under a microscope - HELP!
« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2011, 10:42:18 AM »

probably a copy of 'i feel fine'.something i still cannot play.

Me either.

Quote
do not mention this shuffle to me.how the hell he plays that so smooth i cannot understand.

Tell me about it. I'll have to check out the Ed Sullivan footage.

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'dizzy miss lizzy is rubbish.

Isnt it though?


I agree things are interesting now. Good record, but the next one is really, really good.

Gary910

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Re: Beatles under a microscope - HELP!
« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2011, 03:07:18 PM »

As I have said in other threads (and maybe it takes away credibility for me) I do not think there is a single Beatles song that is bad. I do not think any song is "filler" either. Of course there are some that are better than others.

I challenge (and this is purely subjective) any band/songwriter to put out a song as good as any Beatles song. You might be able to criticize some of the cover songs that The Beatles did, but I don't think there is anyone better. If you criticize the cover songs, are you criticizing the song or the arrangement. If you are criticizing the song, the criticism is directed in the wrong place. Direct it at the songwriter not the "cover band". I know you can argue things like 'Revolution 9' is crap. Well, I disagree there as well. If you understand what they were doing, it is a brilliant piece of songwriting/recording. 'Revolution 9' is not a commercial, danceable song. It wasn't meant to be. 'Wild Honey Pie' again, you could argue that it is just a bunch of stupid noise, and in a sense it is, but the way it is done I understand the "art" of it.

Because this is my opinion, I have not gotten in on these discussions. I am having a good time reading them though.
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glass onion

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Re: Beatles under a microscope - HELP!
« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2011, 07:05:58 PM »

when i state that a certain song isn't very good,or plain bad,i am putting it up against other songs that were written or recorded by the beatles.for instance,compared to 'penny lane'(for instance),'mr.moonlight' isn't very good.but sometimes it is necessary to be subjective like that.after all,this is a beatles site,we are all fans,i feel quite comfortable in saying exactly what i mean.i think i can name genuinely poor beatle songs on one hand,and over a wide body of work that the band released, that is some going.i cannot do that with any other act that i admire.i think sometimes people who love the band get maybe a little too protective,but remember that we are all genuine fans who have listened to these albums literally hundreds and hundreds of times over.you ought to join in with this particular thread gary,especially now we are getting to the meatier albums.tkitna has started an amazing thread here,probably the best one on the whole site.enjoy it!!
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Hello Goodbye

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Re: Beatles under a microscope - HELP!
« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2011, 08:15:26 PM »

Tell Me What You See - This is one of my favorite songs on this album.  I like Paul's lead vocal and John's harmony and how they switch.  I like the claves and the quick outro.  But what I like most is the more mature nature of Tell Me What You See.  It's a signpost to the future and Rubber Soul.
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Hombre_de_ningun_lugar

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Re: Beatles under a microscope - HELP!
« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2011, 09:06:36 PM »

As I have said in other threads (and maybe it takes away credibility for me) I do not think there is a single Beatles song that is bad. I do not think any song is "filler" either. Of course there are some that are better than others.

I challenge (and this is purely subjective) any band/songwriter to put out a song as good as any Beatles song. You might be able to criticize some of the cover songs that The Beatles did, but I don't think there is anyone better. If you criticize the cover songs, are you criticizing the song or the arrangement. If you are criticizing the song, the criticism is directed in the wrong place. Direct it at the songwriter not the "cover band". I know you can argue things like 'Revolution 9' is crap. Well, I disagree there as well. If you understand what they were doing, it is a brilliant piece of songwriting/recording. 'Revolution 9' is not a commercial, danceable song. It wasn't meant to be. 'Wild Honey Pie' again, you could argue that it is just a bunch of stupid noise, and in a sense it is, but the way it is done I understand the "art" of it.

Because this is my opinion, I have not gotten in on these discussions. I am having a good time reading them though.

With all respect Gary, I think that your point of view tends to be blind devotion. You talk about "Revolution 9", and I wonder what you would think about that song (?) if it was done by other act (and this just an example, actually I enjoy "Revolution 9" even more than some other Beatles tunes). The Beatles were humans, and they did some stuff that is not very good. The Beatles is my very favourite band, but I can freely say that the best material from other groups (especially from the 60's) is better than 90% of the Beatles music. How many Beatles songs are better than, say, "My Generation", "I Can See For Miles", "Pinball Wizard" (The Who), "Somebody To Love", "White Rabbit" (Jefferson Airplane), "Mr. Tambourine Man", "Turn! Turn! Turn!", "Eight Miles High" (The Byrds), "Waterloo Sunset" (The Kinks), "She's Not There", "Time Of The Season" (The Zombies), "Alone Again Or" (Love), "Shapes Of Things" (The Yardbirds), "For What It's Worth" (Buffalo Springfield), just to name some. Of course that the Beatles were the best ever in terms of quality and quantity, and their best songs are truly among the best of the best ever, but there are other bands that did music as good as the Beatles, though they weren't as prolific as our Fab Four.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2011, 09:11:53 PM by Hombre_de_ningun_lugar »
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peterbell1

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Re: Beatles under a microscope - HELP!
« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2011, 09:55:32 PM »

As I have said in other threads (and maybe it takes away credibility for me) I do not think there is a single Beatles song that is bad. I do not think any song is "filler" either. Of course there are some that are better than others.

I challenge (and this is purely subjective) any band/songwriter to put out a song as good as any Beatles song. You might be able to criticize some of the cover songs that The Beatles did, but I don't think there is anyone better. If you criticize the cover songs, are you criticizing the song or the arrangement. If you are criticizing the song, the criticism is directed in the wrong place. Direct it at the songwriter not the "cover band". I know you can argue things like 'Revolution 9' is crap. Well, I disagree there as well. If you understand what they were doing, it is a brilliant piece of songwriting/recording. 'Revolution 9' is not a commercial, danceable song. It wasn't meant to be. 'Wild Honey Pie' again, you could argue that it is just a bunch of stupid noise, and in a sense it is, but the way it is done I understand the "art" of it.

Because this is my opinion, I have not gotten in on these discussions. I am having a good time reading them though.

Personally, I reckon that the best of The Beatles is better than any other band (I probably wouldn't be here otherwise ;D )
But I don't think everything they put out was better than anything by any other artist. I'd rather listen to God Only Knows by The Beach Boys than Savoy Truffle, for example (and I quite like Savoy Truffle by the way!)
I suppose if you took an average of how great a band's output was, The Beatles would come out number one, because they were consistently good, and occasionally untouchable. However, my top 100 songs would maybe feature just 10 or 15 Beatles tunes and the rest would be all sorts of different bands. But the Beatles are still far and away my favourite band.
But it's all personal opinions and that's what makes threads like this interesting.
And here follows an example ...  ;D
TKITNA said Tell Me What You See is a "weak" song, but I love it! It is a fairly simple song, but that is part of its greatness for me. I love those upward guitar strums, the harmonies, Ringo's snare sound during the organ part. Sure, it's not up there with Beatles "classics" but it makes me incredibly happy to hear it.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2011, 10:03:08 PM by peterbell1 »
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Re: Beatles under a microscope - HELP!
« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2011, 11:57:47 PM »

I’ve Just Seen A Face - I had to wait until the Capitol Rubber Soul was released to first hear this song.  It was the first song on side one and I instantly liked it.  Paul's double tracked vocals were superb and Paul, John and George all played acoustic guitar.  When I took blues lessons several years later, my teacher and I would warm up with this song at my request.  He played rhythm and helped me hone my fingerpicking technique.  I like how Paul "bum bumdee dee dumed" to himself during the solo.  I do the same when I play this song.
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Re: Beatles under a microscope - HELP!
« Reply #11 on: April 13, 2011, 12:29:00 AM »

Act Naturally - This is one of Ringo's signature songs and he sings it quite well with Paul doing some fine C&W back up vocals.  George Harrison plays a very nice Chet Atkins-like lead guitar on his Gretsch Tennessean, even nicer in this live performance...

The Beatles (Ringo Starr) - ''Act Naturally'' [Live]
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Re: Beatles under a microscope - HELP!
« Reply #12 on: April 13, 2011, 12:44:59 AM »

tkitna, this is how Act Naturally sounds when played by these guys...

...two, three, four!

Buck Owens & His Buckaroos - Act Naturally [Live] - 1966


Buck Owens and His Buckaroos   1966
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Re: Beatles under a microscope - HELP!
« Reply #13 on: April 13, 2011, 12:48:58 AM »

The Beatles' version really needed a pedal steel guitar for the full effect.  ;)
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glass onion

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Re: Beatles under a microscope - HELP!
« Reply #14 on: April 13, 2011, 08:23:10 AM »

the post that hello goodbye has included with the 'act naturally' footage was what i was thinking of todd,it looks like it wasn't ed sullivan,but 'big night out',sunny blackpool,united kingdom.sorry for getting mixed up.....but how good was ringo?not the singing (although that was ok)but the drumming is superb.that is actually great footage and a brilliant live version of the song.top banana!!
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tkitna

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Re: Beatles under a microscope - HELP!
« Reply #15 on: April 13, 2011, 10:08:22 AM »

Yeah, that is some sweet footage. Damn him and that shuffle though.

Thanks for the clips HG, but since we're on the kick, we might as well add the both of them together. (great video)
Ringo Starr & Buck Owens - Act Naturally - Clip - 1989



Thanks for the replies guys.

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Re: Beatles under a microscope - HELP!
« Reply #16 on: April 13, 2011, 02:45:23 PM »

I get what you are saying as to some songs being "weak" or whatever word you want to use.

Todd, some of those songs you mentioned, I can't stand. I do not like the Byrds. I hate that California (yeah, that is where I live) folk sound. I don't like when The Beatles are compared to The Byrds or any other band of the time. I don't think they even compare. To me it sounds like completely different music. After almost 30 years of strong fandom of The Beatles, I hear something different. I can't put my finger on it, but I don't think anyone sounds like The Beatles. I don't even think that George, Ringo, John or Paul on their own sounded like The Beatles.

If you want to call it "Blind Devotion" so be it. I don't feel that is what it is. I do feel, and I think this point is well made that there are some songs that are better than others (although if there ever was subjectivity, that is it).

The Beatles (and solo) is the only band I can consistently listen to the whole catalog. I have other (Stevie Ray Vaughan, The Police/Sting, and a few others) full catalogs. Maybe we are all on the same page and don't even know it.
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Re: Beatles under a microscope - HELP!
« Reply #17 on: April 13, 2011, 03:14:06 PM »

Thanks for the clips HG, but since we're on the kick, we might as well add the both of them together. (great video)
Ringo Starr & Buck Owens - Act Naturally - Clip - 1989


Yes, Act Naturally was a signature song for both Buck Owens and Ringo Starr.

Here's Buck introducing the song in 1963...

Buck Owens & Don Rich - Act Naturally + Down to the River FANTASTIC!!!



And one of his final performances...

Act Naturally (The video's owner prevents external embedding)


Ringo carries on the tradition...

Ringo Starr - Act Naturally (live 2005) HQ



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Hombre_de_ningun_lugar

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Re: Beatles under a microscope - HELP!
« Reply #18 on: April 13, 2011, 04:11:48 PM »

I get what you are saying as to some songs being "weak" or whatever word you want to use.

Todd, some of those songs you mentioned, I can't stand. I do not like the Byrds. I hate that California (yeah, that is where I live) folk sound. I don't like when The Beatles are compared to The Byrds or any other band of the time. I don't think they even compare. To me it sounds like completely different music. After almost 30 years of strong fandom of The Beatles, I hear something different. I can't put my finger on it, but I don't think anyone sounds like The Beatles. I don't even think that George, Ringo, John or Paul on their own sounded like The Beatles.

If you want to call it "Blind Devotion" so be it. I don't feel that is what it is. I do feel, and I think this point is well made that there are some songs that are better than others (although if there ever was subjectivity, that is it).

The Beatles (and solo) is the only band I can consistently listen to the whole catalog. I have other (Stevie Ray Vaughan, The Police/Sting, and a few others) full catalogs. Maybe we are all on the same page and don't even know it.

When I say "blind devotion" I mean that if the same Beatles song was written and similarly recorded by any other band you may not like it just because it's not the Beatles. The songs I mentioned are among my favourite ones, and I understand that you may not like them, but surely there must be songs by other artists you like that you enjoy more than at least some Beatles songs (don't you think that noone apart from the Beatles wrote a better song than "Hold Me Tight", for instance?). I can say that I like everything the Beatles did, though and I don't like all the solo stuff, especially after the 70's. But I saw that there's life after the Beatles and several other bands did as good music, though not at the same quantity the Beatles did. The point is that you should jugde the music for the music itself, not for the name of the artist.
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Re: Beatles under a microscope - HELP!
« Reply #19 on: April 13, 2011, 08:04:24 PM »

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The point is that you should jugde the music for the music itself, not for the name of the artist.

This is well said. Its perfectly alright for you to like all of their songs Gary. Everybody likes what they like, but I think we all should keep an open mind. Beatle music alone would bore me to death.
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