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Author Topic: Beatles under a microscope - HELP!  (Read 8756 times)

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Re: Beatles under a microscope - HELP!
« Reply #20 on: April 13, 2011, 08:49:21 PM »

Yeah, that is some sweet footage. Damn him and that shuffle though.

I know how you feel, tkitna.  I'm not a drummer but I think an extra percussion track was laid down on Act Naturally.  I hear the snare and hi hat but it sounds like he's using a brush too.

Look at the Buckaroo drummer in Buck Owen's 1963 video.  He's using a brush and I hear the same percussion effect I hear in The Beatles' Act Naturally.  By the way, if you listen to those Buck Owens videos often enough you might just become a C&W fan.  ;)
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Gary910

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Re: Beatles under a microscope - HELP!
« Reply #21 on: April 13, 2011, 09:23:16 PM »

Beatle music alone would bore me to death.

It wouldn't me.

Although I do enjoy a very vast variety (is that a tongue twister) of music. I am listening to some jazz now (Gene Krupa). I can say I do not exclusively listen to the Beatles, although if I was on a desert island... no problem (I would have to have solo stuff as well). I might have heard more solo stuff than most "fans" as well, as anyone would be hard pressed to mention anything I do not have (released stuff).
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nimrod

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Re: Beatles under a microscope - HELP!
« Reply #22 on: April 13, 2011, 10:44:08 PM »

Help is my least played Beatle album, Ive never liked the majority of the songs on there, yes there are a couple of gems lke the title track and............ You Got To Hide Your Love Away..

Its a definite 'John' thing isnt it, writing songs in Waltz time 3/4 (although some would argue the song is actually in 6/8) Baby's in Black and This Boy were previous to this.....I just feel that John had a real 'feel' for waltz time, I always think of him waltzing with Yoko (on the Let It Be movie) to I Me Mine, overall John wrote a lot more songs in 3/4 than the others.

I really love this particular song though, for me THE best song on the album, although harmony wise very simple, I havent played it in years but Im sure its just 4 chords, (very easy to play for any guitar students out there) this song has the famous Beatle 'flat XII' chord.
A lot of people have said its the Dylan influence on John that made him write this song, Im not so sure, after all its just a love ballad played acoustically (like Yesterday), why cant we say its John's Yesterday ? maybe he was more influenced by Paul than Dylan  ;D
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tkitna

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Re: Beatles under a microscope - HELP!
« Reply #23 on: April 14, 2011, 02:09:27 AM »

I know how you feel, tkitna.  I'm not a drummer but I think an extra percussion track was laid down on Act Naturally.  I hear the snare and hi hat but it sounds like he's using a brush too.

Look at the Buckaroo drummer in Buck Owen's 1963 video.  He's using a brush and I hear the same percussion effect I hear in The Beatles' Act Naturally. 

I didnt really hear another drum track. I need to relisten to the song now that you brought this up. I just always thought the fast shuffle was causing the noise. I'll get back to you on that.

tkitna

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Re: Beatles under a microscope - HELP!
« Reply #24 on: April 14, 2011, 02:16:11 AM »

I can say I do not exclusively listen to the Beatles, although if I was on a desert island... no problem (I would have to have solo stuff as well). I might have heard more solo stuff than most "fans" as well, as anyone would be hard pressed to mention anything I do not have (released stuff).

I have all their solo stuff too (including more bootlegs than I know what to do with), but not all of it was good. McCartney 2 and Gone Troppo are dust collectors and would be better served as coasters rather than music in my cd player. Ringo the 4th isnt good and Lennons stuff ranks last on my solo chart.

I dont think i'll ever understand, but thats cool. Your a diehard and your sticking to your corner. Nothing wrong with that.

tkitna

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Re: Beatles under a microscope - HELP!
« Reply #25 on: April 14, 2011, 02:20:27 AM »

why cant we say its John's Yesterday ?

Because it doesnt hold up to it. Imagine or even In My Life (if we're going with a Beatle tune) would be better choices in my opinion. Yesterday was Pauls masterpiece. YGTHYLA is a good song. No doubt about that, but its pretty thin when going up against the monsters mentioned beforehand. Thats just my opinion though of course.

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Re: Beatles under a microscope - HELP!
« Reply #26 on: April 14, 2011, 02:54:07 AM »

I can say I do not exclusively listen to the Beatles, although if I was on a desert island... no problem (I would have to have solo stuff as well). I might have heard more solo stuff than most "fans" as well, as anyone would be hard pressed to mention anything I do not have (released stuff).

I think I'm a fan of 1960's music as you are a fan of the Beatles (and solo) music. I may understand your devotion because I don't like or listen to much music from other times. I dig a few 1970's stuff, but don't ask me to listen to music from the 1980's and beyond (and I don't even care if it is done by my favourite 60's artists). So I may have blind devotion for 1960's music as you have blind devotion for everything with the label "Beatles" in it.

I think the Beatles were so great because they were part of a great era that influenced them as much as they influenced others; the Beatles alone could not have made all the great music they did.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2011, 03:12:46 AM by Hombre_de_ningun_lugar »
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Re: Beatles under a microscope - HELP!
« Reply #27 on: April 14, 2011, 08:00:10 AM »

Because it doesnt hold up to it. Imagine or even In My Life (if we're going with a Beatle tune) would be better choices in my opinion. Yesterday was Pauls masterpiece. YGTHYLA is a good song. No doubt about that, but its pretty thin when going up against the monsters mentioned beforehand. Thats just my opinion though of course.

I never said it was as good as Yesterday tkitna, (where did you get that idea?) I was meaning it was Johns attempt to write a love ballad like Paul used to do. 
If I said it was Johns And I Love Her would that make you happier ?  ha2ha
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tkitna

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Re: Beatles under a microscope - HELP!
« Reply #28 on: April 14, 2011, 03:30:47 PM »

I never said it was as good as Yesterday tkitna, (where did you get that idea?) I was meaning it was Johns attempt to write a love ballad like Paul used to do. 
If I said it was Johns And I Love Her would that make you happier ?  ha2ha

Yeah, I misunderstood. My bad. And I love Her is better too.  ha2ha

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Re: Beatles under a microscope - HELP!
« Reply #29 on: April 14, 2011, 04:28:57 PM »

I didnt really hear another drum track. I need to relisten to the song now that you brought this up. I just always thought the fast shuffle was causing the noise. I'll get back to you on that.

If Ringo is indeed doing a fast shuffle, then he's very deft at that hi hat.  And he's singing at the same time!
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Re: Beatles under a microscope - HELP!
« Reply #30 on: April 14, 2011, 06:06:30 PM »

You Got To Hide Your Love Away..

Its a definite 'John' thing isnt it, writing songs in Waltz time 3/4 (although some would argue the song is actually in 6/8) Baby's in Black and This Boy were previous to this.....I just feel that John had a real 'feel' for waltz time, I always think of him waltzing with Yoko (on the Let It Be movie) to I Me Mine, overall John wrote a lot more songs in 3/4 than the others.

I really love this particular song though, for me THE best song on the album, although harmony wise very simple, I havent played it in years but Im sure its just 4 chords, (very easy to play for any guitar students out there) this song has the famous Beatle 'flat XII' chord.
A lot of people have said its the Dylan influence on John that made him write this song, Im not so sure, after all its just a love ballad played acoustically (like Yesterday), why cant we say its John's Yesterday ? maybe he was more influenced by Paul than Dylan  ;D

I like You've Got To Hide Your Love Away too.  And I like the way John emphasizes this song's 3/4 waltz beat with his "Heys!"  I think there's a big mystique about this flat VII chord though.  A flat 7 chord in the key of G is an F major chord.  The seventh scale degree in the key of G major is F# which when flattened is F natural.     
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nimrod

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Re: Beatles under a microscope - HELP!
« Reply #31 on: April 14, 2011, 10:54:19 PM »

I always liked how John sang 'feeling two foot small' instead of 'two foot tall' apparently it was a mistake but they liked it..
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Re: Beatles under a microscope - HELP!
« Reply #32 on: April 14, 2011, 11:35:08 PM »

I'm posting this to get tkitna to like C&W  :)

Act Naturally
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Mr Mustard

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Re: Beatles under a microscope - HELP!
« Reply #33 on: April 15, 2011, 05:26:01 PM »

Rather than being the first awakening of their broadening horizons, Help! Represents for me the final offering of traditional Beatles fare. It still contains a couple of cover versions. The songs still aim primarily to be commercial, catchy, radio-friendly foot-tapping singalongs. The four lads still had the endearing habit of dressing identically. It was the last time they would lark about to a goofy agenda written and shaped by others. It was the last hurrah of those cheeky, funny, cuddly moptops.

Help! – the song itself – was a superb taster for this new material. Perhaps more than ever before, the voices, drums and guitars dovetailed to near perfection. Superbly descending, crisp, spangly Gretsch guitar from George intertwines with a wonderful lead vocal by John, delivering those loaded lyrics with a perfect measure of angst, hope and desperation. Paul and George provide a truly terrific backing vocal which anticipates the lead – a simple masterstroke. Ringo excels himself; the drumming is nothing short of sensational and both drives and embellishes the whole track (and indeed, much of the album). A dazzling pop song in which each member plays his part to the hilt – the result, as so often with The Beatles – the whole is magically so much more than the sum of its (awesome) parts. Neatly encapsulates the paradoxically lonely claustrophobia and breathless excitement of their goldfish bowl existence in under two and a half fabulous, frenetic minutes.

The Night Before seamlessly continues the party mood. It’s Paul’s track and he confidently bestrides it with a colossal vocal and irresistibly driving bass performance. Love John’s electric piano and his backing vocal support with George. A great number.

You’ve Got To Hide Your Love Away – a sorrowful, world-weary little song of vulnerability for which I’ve always held a personal soft spot. It’s one of the first ones I clearly remember, my mum used to play it on an old reel to reel tape machine whilst doing the housework. I was just a little lad and I still remember and love that line about being two foot small and John’s lilting “Hey!” ahead of the song’s catchline (here’s the joke – I used to think it was being sung by Harry H. Corbett as Harold Steptoe!). The flute at the end is beautiful and really elevates the song into something curiously special. Lovely acoustic number – Ringo’s tambourine seems such a small touch, yet makes a giant contribution to this track in my opinion.

I Need You – A slight dip in quality for me here. Much as I like it, George’s monotonous vocal and the vibrating pedal guitar give it a slightly droning repetition after a little while. The cowbell gets on my nerves aswell. As usual with the fab four there is a mesmerising quality which keeps you with it, but generally a bit of a turgid plodder for me, compounded by a rather muted, soporific backing from Paul and John.

Another Girl – back to the party and another catchy hit from Paul, who charts the choppy waters of harsh lyrical sentiment more usually navigated by John. In keeping with the unbending stance of the lyrics, Paul serves up an uncompromisingly stern lead vocal at the lower end of his range, emerging darkly from beneath the strident backing vocals. I really like Paul’s lead guitar flourishes too. Another Girl is Another Winner for my money.

You’re Going To Lose That Girl – Like its immediate predecessor and the album’s two opening tracks, here is yet another consummately catchy pop song. As ever, John delivers a redoubtable performance on the meaty lead vocal. Again, George and Paul supply a  masterfully pugnacious backing – the cleverly overlapping conversational interplay (“…watch what you do/ Yeah!”) glides along on a wonderful percussive wave courtesy of Ringo (although the relentless bongos get a bit irksome and over the top for me - but there’s enough great momentum to the track to overlook this). Superb ending. A real highlight of the album this one.

Ticket To Ride – well, it’s awesome really isn’t it? Lennon’s vocal and lyrical blend of remorse, possessive anger and yearning weave a path – ably abetted by Paul’s high backing – through the jangling guitars (terrific lead by Paul – again) and cascading drums (Ringo is once again magnificent here) on a truly fabulous trip through the emotional pain of  broken romance. The song aches with feeling. John’s wounded “Aaaahhhh….” (2:31) as he tumbles into the title lyric is fabulous. And Ringo’s fills (by turns drilling, stumbling, or finally just a hammerblow full stop) after each “Ri-i-ide” are effortlessly brilliant. A magnificent closer to side one, with – like the opener – ‘number one hit’ written all over it.

So far, so fantastic. Unfortunately, redundant a point as it may seem in this digital age, “Help!” is very much a tale of two halves. Side two represents a nosedive in quality to my mind, and dilutes what, at the half way point, was shaping up as their best album to date.

I dislike Act Naturally, despite Ringo’s manful efforts (and again, awesome percussive display). It gurgles along as a poor man’s ‘Honey Don’t’ and on this occasion I really can’t bear Paul’s high register backing vocal. It somehow doesn’t even sound like the Beatles at all.

It’s Only Love was famously disavowed by John as one of his most embarrassing efforts. Undoubtedly a filler, with trite lyrics and those sugary, spongy guitar layers, it does little for me, though it’s fairly innocuous I suppose. I do like John’s sharp, tongue-in-cheek enunciation of “bright” (sarcastically disparaging the hollowness of his own lyrics here) and his lilting falsetto at the end, but all in all a lazy, throwaway effort.

You Like Me Too Much – this track has the drive and infectious energy so clearly lacking from George’s turgid side one offering. I wish this had been in the film instead of ‘I Need You’. I enjoy the rolling tempo and barrelhouse piano. It’s nice to have a more upbeat original number from George, following the melancholy mood which prevails throughout ‘Don’t Bother Me’ and ‘I Need You’. I love reading tkitna’s reviews but this song was completely overlooked there…. I’m guessing you must regard this one as eminently forgettable eh tkitna?

Tell Me What You See is another makeweight, almost childish in its structure with banal lyrics and an almost nursery rhyme quality buoyed up by that electric piano and bouncy percussion. Despite the tweeness I find it difficult to dislike. I like the hummed ending.

I’ve Just Seen A Face is love at first sight set to music. Another simple song it’s hard to dislike, with a naïve quality and freshness nicely echoed in the breathless, tumbling vocal and descending guitar work. A nice little tune from Paul – too good to be regarded as filler, but lightweight and fairly shallow nonetheless. Guilty pleasure meets hidden gem in a way.

Yesterday – how do I address the elephant in the room? It may be a beautiful song (and it is) but I’m sick to the back teeth of it. It’s not even Beatles proper – Paul stands alone (apart from that string quartet) to deliver the most covered “standard” of all time and cement himself into immortality. It does have an austere, yearning simplicity to it. But it will forever be the most overrated Beatles tune of all time for me I’m afraid. Interesting how each Beatle is (to my mind at least) branded by these one word titles (‘Yesterday’ for Paul, ‘Imagine’ for John, ‘Something’ from George and ‘Photograph’ by Ringo).

Dizzy Miss Lizzy – concludes a weak side two with a dreadful, slapdash mess. One of the worst Beatles recordings ever in my opinion. A boring rock & roll performance by John Lennon would seem to be an oxymoron, yet that is what we end up with in the shape – or rather shapelessness – of this weary, repetitive shambles. The screeching guitar and Lennon’s uncharacteristically unconvincing vocal combine to give us a tiresome track that can’t finish too soon for me. A shame when they recorded the vastly superior ‘Bad Boy’ at the same session.

In conclusion, the first side of the Help! LP was a triumph, sadly tainted by the unconvincingly cobbled together hotchpotch that was side two. They wouldn’t tolerate such a slip in standards again.
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Re: Beatles under a microscope - HELP!
« Reply #34 on: April 15, 2011, 08:02:35 PM »

Act Naturally...It somehow doesn’t even sound like the Beatles at all.

Right.  It sounds Country & Western.  Paul is doing a credible C&W backing vocal in Don Rich's style.

The previous video I posted used the Buck Owens and His Buckaroos Carnegie Hall Concert soundtrack...


 

This is the actual soundtrack to Act Naturally performed on The Ranch Show  March 15. 1966...

Buck Owens & His Buckaroos - Act Naturally


...now that's how it's done...Bakersfield style.  ;)
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tkitna

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Re: Beatles under a microscope - HELP!
« Reply #35 on: April 16, 2011, 12:35:41 AM »

I'm posting this to get tkitna to like C&W  :)

I try, but its just not working for me.

tkitna

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Re: Beatles under a microscope - HELP!
« Reply #36 on: April 16, 2011, 12:48:48 AM »

Help! – Neatly encapsulates the paradoxically lonely claustrophobia and breathless excitement of their goldfish bowl existence in under two and a half fabulous, frenetic minutes.

Wow. See Mr. M, I cant compete with that. Awesome.

Quote
You Like Me Too Much – this track has the drive and infectious energy so clearly lacking from George’s turgid side one offering. I wish this had been in the film instead of ‘I Need You’. I enjoy the rolling tempo and barrelhouse piano. It’s nice to have a more upbeat original number from George, following the melancholy mood which prevails throughout ‘Don’t Bother Me’ and ‘I Need You’. I love reading tkitna’s reviews but this song was completely overlooked there…. I’m guessing you must regard this one as eminently forgettable eh tkitna?

Damn, I did forget to review the song. Must have misplaced my notes for that one. Oh well. I like it well enough. With just listening to it in my head, I love Ringos drumming and the piano to start. Georges vocals are decent here and I do like the song. Sorry i missed this one and i'm at work now with no way of listening to it.



[/quote]

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Re: Beatles under a microscope - HELP!
« Reply #37 on: April 16, 2011, 01:15:36 AM »

I try, but its just not working for me.

Shucks, you got to get into a country mood, tkitna.

It's pickin' and grinnin' time!

Buck Owens and Roy Clark




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Re: Beatles under a microscope - HELP!
« Reply #38 on: April 16, 2011, 02:41:57 AM »

I’ve Just Seen A Face - Again, I’m not a Country/Western music person. So why do I love this song? Makes no sense to me, but I do.

Maybe you really do like C&W, tkitna.  And bluegrass too...

Country Roads - I've Just Seen Her Face


A Touch of Grass - I've Just Seen a Face


I've Just Seen a Face (cover) The Grasshoppers


I´ve just Seen a Face - Paul McCartney Unplugged (Embedding disabled, limit reached)
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Re: Beatles under a microscope - HELP!
« Reply #39 on: April 16, 2011, 02:58:54 AM »

Dizzy Miss Lizzy – concludes a weak side two with a dreadful, slapdash mess. One of the worst Beatles recordings ever in my opinion. A boring rock & roll performance by John Lennon would seem to be an oxymoron, yet that is what we end up with in the shape – or rather shapelessness – of this weary, repetitive shambles. The screeching guitar and Lennon’s uncharacteristically unconvincing vocal combine to give us a tiresome track that can’t finish too soon for me. A shame when they recorded the vastly superior ‘Bad Boy’ at the same session.

Aw, it wasn't that bad.  But this is how it really goes...

Dizzy Miss Lizzy

Larry Williams - Dizzy Miss Lizzy


Larry Williams   1958
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