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Author Topic: Beatles under a microscope - Magical Mystery Tour  (Read 6509 times)

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Beatlesrlove

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Re: Beatles under a microscope - Magical Mystery Tour
« Reply #20 on: May 31, 2011, 11:14:08 PM »

I Agree that MMT hads some songs that are ehh ok... but have some songs that are Great,  like Flying it isn't that great, but All You Need Is Love is outstanding.
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Hombre_de_ningun_lugar

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Re: Beatles under a microscope - Magical Mystery Tour
« Reply #21 on: June 14, 2011, 10:35:09 PM »

If Magical Mystery Tour is not an official album, at least it's the most coherent American release, including the EP of the same name plus non-album singles from 1967. But I wouldn't say it's a compilation album either, because all songs are from the same year. The Beatles also included previously released singles sides in other official records, like "Love Me Do" and "P.S. I Love You" in Please Please Me, "Can't Buy Me Love" and "You Can't Do That" in A Hard Day's Night, and "Ticket To Ride" in Help!. The difference is that Magical Mystery Tour wasn't released as an album in UK in 1967 (though it was released there later in the 1970's), but since it was included in the CD catalog since 1987, on a totally objective basis, I think it's fair to consider it an official Beatles album. As I said before, it's more a true album than Yellow Submarine.
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nimrod

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Re: Beatles under a microscope - Magical Mystery Tour
« Reply #22 on: June 15, 2011, 12:12:32 AM »

If Magical Mystery Tour is not an official album, at least it's the most coherent American release, including the EP of the same name plus non-album singles from 1967. But I wouldn't say it's a compilation album either, because all songs are from the same year.

but some songs are pre Pepper hombre, and theres too many singles for it not to be compilation album AND, most importantly of all The Beatles didnt release it as an album, and imo the artist decision is final.

Stickin a few ex hit singles on an ep doesnt make it an album.
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Hello Goodbye

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Re: Beatles under a microscope - Magical Mystery Tour
« Reply #23 on: June 15, 2011, 02:15:37 AM »

...like Flying it isn't that great...


If you look to your left, the view is not very inspiring.  Ahhh!  But if you look to the right…

The Beatles - Flying


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Hombre_de_ningun_lugar

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Re: Beatles under a microscope - Magical Mystery Tour
« Reply #24 on: June 15, 2011, 03:00:56 AM »

but some songs are pre Pepper hombre, and theres too many singles for it not to be compilation album AND, most importantly of all The Beatles didnt release it as an album, and imo the artist decision is final.

Stickin a few ex hit singles on an ep doesnt make it an album.

Only "Strawberry Fileds Forever" and "Penny Lane" are from Sgt. Pepper's sessions, the rest is from the Magical Mystery Tour sessions. There're three singles included, and the Beatles used to include two singles in some early albums, but I don't think that the number of singles is important, the point is that all songs are from a defined period of time, all released in 1967, early or later in the year. And the Beatles released it as an EP in UK because they didn't want to include singles in albums, but this doesn't mean that the LP was not a great idea. I admit it's not a proper album as the others, but at this point I think we can consider it as an official Beatles album, though it won that title several years after its release.
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nimrod

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Re: Beatles under a microscope - Magical Mystery Tour
« Reply #25 on: June 15, 2011, 04:36:10 AM »

And the Beatles released it as an EP in UK because they didn't want to include singles in albums,

UK albums;

Help had 2 singles
Hard Days Night had 1 single
Please Please Me had 2 singles
Revolver had 1 single
Let It Be had 2 singles
Abbey Rd had 1 single

so they wernt exactly single free
I think they released it as an EP because the album would end up with 5 singles on it, 5 singles on an LP for me makes it a compilation. I count 5 anyway  ;D
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peterbell1

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Re: Beatles under a microscope - Magical Mystery Tour
« Reply #26 on: June 15, 2011, 09:47:35 AM »

Only "Strawberry Fileds Forever" and "Penny Lane" are from Sgt. Pepper's sessions, the rest is from the Magical Mystery Tour sessions. There're three singles included, and the Beatles used to include two singles in some early albums, but I don't think that the number of singles is important, the point is that all songs are from a defined period of time, all released in 1967, early or later in the year. And the Beatles released it as an EP in UK because they didn't want to include singles in albums, but this doesn't mean that the LP was not a great idea. I admit it's not a proper album as the others, but at this point I think we can consider it as an official Beatles album, though it won that title several years after its release.

I think the Beatles tried out the double EP format because they didn't have enough new material for a full album, but they wanted the songs to be released anyway, to go along with the release of the film.

To avoid the double EP format, they perhaps could have released a five-song single EP of songs from the film, omitting Walrus because it had already been released as B-side of Hello Goodbye. But Walrus was part of the film and it belonged with the other film songs, I suppose.

So they were left with a dilemma - there were too many MMT songs for a single EP but not enough new material for an album.

They tried out the double EP format but, basically, it didn't work - people were by now paying more attention to albums and not just seeing them as vehicles for their hit singles, plus EPs had had their day, with the sales of Beatles EPs falling steadily from their peak in 1963. And the price of a double EP wouldn't have been far short of a full LP price.

So, over time, people in the UK started buying imports of the US album version and it ended up becoming the accepted format, getting an official UK LP release in 1976. It also made sense to use the album format when releasing the Beatles songs on CD for the first time, so that really put the official stamp on it.

I think the band (in the UK at least, where they had some control over what was released) were against using too many old songs on new albums because it didn't give good value to the fans. So they didn't initially agree with the idea of packing the six MMT songs with old singles and B-sides.

There was another option though - I wonder why they didn't just use songs that were left over from the Pepper sessions. Weren't It's All Too Much, Only A Northern Song and You Know My Name already recorded by late 1967? They could have used these on Side 2 of an album, along with Hello Goodbye, AYNIL and BYARM, and had a soundtrack side and a non-soundtrack side (like AHDN and Help) and they wouldn't have had to use SFF or PL, which were a year old by that time.
Also, that album would only have had two A-sides (Hello Goodbye and AYNIL), which fitted with what they had done in the past.
It also would have contained eight unreleased songs out of the twelve, representing good value for fans.

Not sure if it would have been a very strong album, especially following a masterpiece like Pepper, but it would have been a fantastic psychedelic LP nonetheless ....

Side 1.
Magical Mystery Tour
The Fool on the Hill
Flying
Blue Jay Way
Your Mother Should Know
I Am the Walrus

Side 2.
Hello, Goodbye
It’s Only a Northern Song
Baby, You're a Rich Man
You Know My Name (Look Up the Number)
All You Need Is Love
It’s All Too Much
« Last Edit: June 15, 2011, 09:58:22 AM by peterbell1 »
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tkitna

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Re: Beatles under a microscope - Magical Mystery Tour
« Reply #27 on: June 15, 2011, 04:11:52 PM »

I'm trying to wrap up the White album as soon as possible. Life is getting in the way right now. Too much stuff to do. Was working on the review this morning, but the wife decided she wanted to fight and now I have to work the next two days.

This weekend for sure.

peterbell1

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Re: Beatles under a microscope - Magical Mystery Tour
« Reply #28 on: June 15, 2011, 08:48:03 PM »

... the wife decided she wanted to fight ...

That's what wives are for!  ;D
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nimrod

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Re: Beatles under a microscope - Magical Mystery Tour
« Reply #29 on: June 15, 2011, 10:16:29 PM »

Quote
Side 2.
Hello, Goodbye
It’s Only a Northern Song
Baby, You're a Rich Man
You Know My Name (Look Up the Number)
All You Need Is Love
It’s All Too Much

That wouldve been a very poor side 2, and I think some fans would be wondering if they were running out of ideas and becoming like a lot of 60's bands who made good singles but poor albums.
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Hello Goodbye

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Re: Beatles under a microscope - Magical Mystery Tour
« Reply #30 on: June 16, 2011, 12:27:20 AM »

Hello Goodbye - I've liked this song since I first heard it late in the fall of 1967.  It was just what we needed after the heady summer of 1967; a denouement of sorts.  It's a plain, simple song in C major with a beautiful string ensemble backing and a bit of lead guitar by George.  The backing vocals substitute for lead guitar in other parts of the song.  It's a song full of contradictory lyrics which say very little but maybe say a lot.

I like the false ending and the second outro which follows.  The meaning of this song is entirely up to the listener and that's what makes this song so remarkable.  I think I've said enough about this song but I may mean I've said nothing at all.
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nimrod

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Re: Beatles under a microscope - Magical Mystery Tour
« Reply #31 on: June 16, 2011, 01:35:20 AM »

Hello Goodbye - I've liked this song since I first heard it late in the fall of 1967.  It was just what we needed after the heady summer of 1967; a denouement of sorts.  It's a plain, simple song in C major with a beautiful string ensemble backing and a bit of lead guitar by George.  The backing vocals substitute for lead guitar in other parts of the song.  It's a song full of contradictory lyrics which say very little but maybe say a lot.

I like the false ending and the second outro which follows.  The meaning of this song is entirely up to the listener and that's what makes this song so remarkable.  I think I've said enough about this song but I may mean I've said nothing at all.

Good post Barry, its a brilliant song IMO
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Hombre_de_ningun_lugar

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Re: Beatles under a microscope - Magical Mystery Tour
« Reply #32 on: June 16, 2011, 07:58:57 PM »

UK albums;

Help had 2 singles
Hard Days Night had 1 single
Please Please Me had 2 singles
Revolver had 1 single
Let It Be had 2 singles
Abbey Rd had 1 single

so they wernt exactly single free
I think they released it as an EP because the album would end up with 5 singles on it, 5 singles on an LP for me makes it a compilation. I count 5 anyway  ;D

I counted A's and B's sides as part of the same single, but if you count both sides of each single, actually Magical Mystery Tour had 6 songs released in that format. And Please Please Me had 4, A Hard Day's Night had 4, Help! had 2, Revolver had 2, Abbey Road had 2 and Let It Be had 2.
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nimrod

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Re: Beatles under a microscope - Magical Mystery Tour
« Reply #33 on: June 16, 2011, 11:16:29 PM »

I counted A's and B's sides as part of the same single, but if you count both sides of each single, actually Magical Mystery Tour had 6 songs released in that format. And Please Please Me had 4, A Hard Day's Night had 4, Help! had 2, Revolver had 2, Abbey Road had 2 and Let It Be had 2.

I didnt count B sides but Penny Lane/SFF was a double A side single
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Hombre_de_ningun_lugar

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Re: Beatles under a microscope - Magical Mystery Tour
« Reply #34 on: June 18, 2011, 02:38:20 AM »

I didnt count B sides but Penny Lane/SFF was a double A side single

But it's just a single, not two singles. Anyway, I don't think that the number of singles defines an album as a compilation. Moby Grape's debut album in 1967 had 10 singles sides out of its 13 songs, and noone would consider it as a compilation album. If MMT is a compilation, then all the early American versions of the Beatles albums are compilations as well. Maybe MMT is not an official album, but I wouldn't say it's a compilation. Anyway, the discussion points to nowhere, haha.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2011, 02:40:15 AM by Hombre_de_ningun_lugar »
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Mr Mustard

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Re: Beatles under a microscope - Magical Mystery Tour
« Reply #35 on: June 21, 2011, 11:08:20 PM »


As we all know Paul was, shall we say, more gifted as a musician than the other 3, he mustve gotten frustrated that he was musically superior to the others as he slowly took over the band.............however, John showed (yet agian) that although he probably couldnt write an opera (where Paul could) he genius was to show the way for pop/rock music, with a handful of songs John changed the face of popular music, while Paul was crafting ditties like Your Mother Should Know and When Im 64 that grannies could singalong too, John was changing the face of popular music and no song did this more than Walrus.
When you think about it they were perfect foils for each other.

I never think of SFF as part or written for, an album, it was a single (double A side) that was pre even Pepper, whereas Walrus was written for MMT.

Then we'll have to disagree, there was nothing like it before it, as a recording it is very complex and lyrically I cant think of anything before it that had such a diverse subject or diverse lyrics and at the time it was completely unpredictable both musically and lyrically.....all IMO of course



Fascinating views there nimrod. I think you overestimate Paul's "musical superiority" over the others, and you underestimate his innovative cutting edge capabilities.

I know several fans who dispute it in the first place, but IF we accept (and personally I do) that Paul has the edge (and it's no more than that) over John and George (OK admittedly by a bigger margin where Ringo's concerned) in terms of musicianship, we should also acknowledge his undervalued prowess as an "ideas" man. John traditionally gets the credit as being the engine room for new directions  and creativity, but it was Paul who thought up and pushed forward the Sgt Pepper alter ego concept for example, and we don't need reminding of the sea change impact that that caused. Paul (OK with George Martin's encouragement) pioneered orchestral strings on pop singles etc... not taking anything away from John, whom we all know was a very original thinker and had a giant talent for sloganeering and crystallising the mood of the moment into song; just pointing out that Paul was more often pushing the boundaries than is generally acknowledged.

Equally it should be remembered by the way that John was woefully underrated as a musician; multi talented (he was a better guitarist than he's usually given credit for, but what can you expect trapped in the shadows of McCartney and Harrison?) able to play harmonica, drums and keyboards etc... as you say, Lennon & McCartney were perfect foils for one another and an untouchable balancing act; each would have dwarfed a lesser partner to the lopsided detriment of the group...

As for Walrus - I've always loved it, but the well known story about its genesis around the two note police siren underlines the fact that it doesn't really have a tune. I always struggle to think of it as a real "song" to be honest. The lyrics are simply Edward Lear inspired gobbledygook, funny in places... dare I say it, it's almost like psychedelic rapping!  ha2ha Yet somehow the whole thing gels together as if by magic...

However, much more innovative (I would argue) is Strawberry Fields, which, appearing some months earlier, surely seemed even more alarmingly different in its day. But I must agree with you, it was never conceived as part of this "album".... shall we agree that side one is half an album and side two is a compilation?

By the way, "Your Mother Should Know" is my MMT guilty pleasure - a real highlight for me, I make no apology for the fact that I've always absolutely loved it!
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nimrod

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Re: Beatles under a microscope - Magical Mystery Tour
« Reply #36 on: June 23, 2011, 12:01:47 AM »

I agree with a lot of your points and Im pleased you agree with some of mine Mr Mustard   ;D

I dont think I do overestimate Pauls superiority (as a musician), but lets make one thing clear, both John & Paul were of the 'genius' variety, both will be remembered, (as Beethoven is remembered) and reveired in a thousand years, but there are differences and Im glad we agree they were perfect for each other.

If you take Pauls bass playing from the time he took it up, he became one of the most creative and innovative bass players in popular music, in fact he became a virtuoso of the bass, improving right up to Abbey Rd, his bass playing in these later Beatle years became ASTOUNDINGLY good. Suddenly due to the break up he was free to play guitar/drums/piano as much as he liked so IMO his bass playing kinda ceased its onward progression, now if you listen carefully to Maybe Im Amazed from his first solo album, there is a wonderful natural fluency to his lead guitar solo, his phrasing and fluidity is amazing, Im sure if he'd lets say got a job as a lead guitarist he wouldve become just as good on guitar as he did on bass......which begs the question of can we imagine if George had took over as bass player and Paul as lead how would the Beatle records have changed due to that scenario ?.......what Im saying is that Paul IS a virtuoso musician and a virtusos arranger of music, its my belief that John (or George) was not blessed with the tools that would have ever made him a virtuoso of the bass or the guitar, very competent yes, but not to the level that Paul played Bass eventually.
When you think about it it was evident at that first meeting when John & Paul met and Paul played 20 Flight Rock that there was something very special about his musicianship, I think John immediatly saw that and although he acted cool he wanted Paul in his band.
Im reminded of a story from John when he and Yoko were invited to jam with Zappa and his band, John said he was sh*tting himself as his vocabulary on the guitar was quite limited and he didnt want to be embarrassed by these guys who were very good players, I cant help thinking, Paul on his bass wouldve slot into it easily.
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nimrod

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Re: Beatles under a microscope - Magical Mystery Tour
« Reply #37 on: June 26, 2011, 11:24:06 PM »

Quote
Baby You’re A Rich Man - Pretty neutral song for me. I don’t think its very good, but I hardly ever hear it so it doesn’t bother me too much. Bass sounds cool. 0:07 Indian instrument or something starts here and just annoys for the rest of the song. 0:12 guitar sounds good coming in here. 0:32 Johns voice sounds awesome. Tambourine and maracas being played. 1:00 guitar being played with the singing is cool. 1:10 you can hear it better here. Drums are double tracked. Not a great song.

Hey Todd Ive just been listening to this song through my new superduper cans (which I shouldve bought years ago) Dont you think theres some very tasty drum bits just before the chorus ? Im not a drummer but it sounds good to me.
Ive read that this song is about Brian Epstein mainly, there was an article about The Beatles and their circle becoming 'beautiful people' so John was being sarcastic again, and having a jibe about money, apparently on the fade out when they sing "Baby you a rich man too" John sang "Baby your a big fat jew" and Brian was amused by it, I cant hear it though, did they edit it out on the remasters?
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tkitna

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Re: Beatles under a microscope - Magical Mystery Tour
« Reply #38 on: June 27, 2011, 12:41:43 AM »

Hey Todd Ive just been listening to this song through my new superduper cans (which I shouldve bought years ago) Dont you think theres some very tasty drum bits just before the chorus ? Im not a drummer but it sounds good to me.
Ive read that this song is about Brian Epstein mainly, there was an article about The Beatles and their circle becoming 'beautiful people' so John was being sarcastic again, and having a jibe about money, apparently on the fade out when they sing "Baby you a rich man too" John sang "Baby your a big fat jew" and Brian was amused by it, I cant hear it though, did they edit it out on the remasters?

I never knew about the 'Baby your a big fat jew' line Kev. I need to listen to the song again to see if I can hear it. I'm also humming the tune in my head and yes, Ringo does have some decent snare work on this song. I'll listen to it again when I get home from work.

Hello Goodbye

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Re: Beatles under a microscope - Magical Mystery Tour
« Reply #39 on: September 01, 2011, 09:33:38 PM »

Bluegrass Beatles - Hello Goodbye



 ha2ha
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