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Author Topic: Lennon was a closet Republican: Assistant  (Read 15869 times)

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stevejrogers

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Re: Lennon was a closet Republican: Assistant
« Reply #100 on: April 28, 2012, 03:59:08 PM »

And another point.  Considering how much "Yoko Ono" is pretty much in the zeitgeist as punchline for groups breaking up because of a disagreement between two members, heh  ;sorry but the whole "this is childish banter" argument becomes irrelevant  ;yes

If you want to say shut up about Clapton-Harrison-Boyd or Chris O'Dell.  Fine, by all means, but consider the fact that Yoko Ono transcends mere speculation, innuendo and looking through the subtext of things like song lyrics.  Is some of it petty and beating a dead horse?  Well sure, but there comes a point where you just can't simply say "this is all silly crap" when "Yoko broke up the Beatles" is a common joke that is played upon in pop culture.

Case in point.  There was an episode of the NBC sitcom Friends where Phoebe fell in love with a scientist whom was to go with his partner for a prolonged research project in Minsk.  The scientist decided to choose love and stay with Phoebe, there is a scene in the episode after the scientist, David, decided to stay in New York where his partner meets the two at a party.  This is what the partner says:

"David.  Yoko."

This is an episode that aired in 1994 okay.  Think about that.  No other Beatle related references in the entire episode, I'm not even sure if there is even another Beatle reference in the rest of the series period!  And yet, right there is a "Yoko = breaking up a partnership" joke some almost 25 years, at that point, since the official breakup of The Beatles. 

So the point is, you might want to close your mind to it, but it's there.  It will always be there.  You can't just dismiss it as silly internet message board gossip when its as much of a part of pop culture as Tricky Dick jokes on Richard Nixon for example.
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Yeshelloitsmehereagain

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Re: Lennon was a closet Republican: Assistant
« Reply #101 on: April 28, 2012, 05:02:26 PM »

STFU
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stevejrogers

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Re: Lennon was a closet Republican: Assistant
« Reply #102 on: April 28, 2012, 05:29:17 PM »

STFU

The point is about 7 of 13 considering any and all attacks, for whatever reason just silly, childish, and trollish behavior. 

Are the jokes wrong?  Of course they are.  The wedding blues of all four did play a factor in the breakup but John's relationship with Yoko, and the strains it put on the others, was not the be all end all of the breaking up of the Beatles.

But the fact that the jokes ARE there, the fact that it is the generally accepted, lazy "answer" in mainstream pop culture to blame both Yoko Ono and Linda McCartney for all the wedges in between both the Beatles and the Lennon/McCartney song writing duo, sadly puts Yoko bashing on a different level than say Patti Boyd bashing, or Chris O'Dell bashing where yes that can be considered silly internet trollish behavior.

It's not right of course, and coming from a very low base form of humor (and understanding of how the Beatles broke up), but all I'm saying it can not be dismissed by a simple sentence and a message board smile image.
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7 of 13

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Re: Lennon was a closet Republican: Assistant
« Reply #103 on: April 28, 2012, 05:52:53 PM »

Oh and great sidestep on the Mel Gibson issue.
totally irrational statement, you gotta' trust me on this. try non-issue, because mel gibson is a boy from Austrailia, and the john lennon was a boy from the 'burbs in liverpool don't prove anything at all, and (read : this is beyond silly) that there is some negative energy flowing anyway hard to imagine. like really. geeze.

The point is about 7 of 13 considering any and all attacks, for whatever reason just silly, childish, and trollish behavior.
that's right. there is no other way to look at it man.

Quote
Are the jokes wrong?  Of course they are. 
there you go, i can't believe my eyes. why don't you silly boys understand this simplest of points, i do wonder.
 ;yes
« Last Edit: April 28, 2012, 06:00:04 PM by 7 of 13 »
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tkitna

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Re: Lennon was a closet Republican: Assistant
« Reply #104 on: April 29, 2012, 01:59:27 AM »

Yeshelloitsmehereagain

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Re: Lennon was a closet Republican: Assistant
« Reply #105 on: April 29, 2012, 10:37:32 PM »

Well ok then. If you want to argue the toss go ahead, you have my blessing.
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tkitna

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Re: Lennon was a closet Republican: Assistant
« Reply #106 on: April 30, 2012, 12:06:53 AM »

Well ok then. If you want to argue the toss go ahead, you have my blessing.

Thanks

marthagoesruff

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Re: Lennon was a closet Republican: Assistant
« Reply #107 on: April 30, 2012, 03:20:48 PM »

EXACTLY HOW DID MAXWELL BOP THE JUDGE? THATS WHAT I WANNA KNOW. AND THE DID THE JUDGE KICK OUT THE WOMEN WHO WERE YELLING IN HIS COURT ROOM?
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stevejrogers

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Re: Lennon was a closet Republican: Assistant
« Reply #108 on: April 30, 2012, 04:06:27 PM »

EXACTLY HOW DID MAXWELL BOP THE JUDGE? THATS WHAT I WANNA KNOW. AND THE DID THE JUDGE KICK OUT THE WOMEN WHO WERE YELLING IN HIS COURT ROOM?

Wrong author!

Now if you want to know exactly what Mean Mister Mustard yelled at The Queen, and how obscene it was...

 ;)
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marthagoesruff

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Re: Lennon was a closet Republican: Assistant
« Reply #109 on: April 30, 2012, 05:32:22 PM »

AND WHY DOES PAUL WANT MY MONEY DOSENT HE HAVE ENOUGH ALREADY? AND OF COURSE I GIVE HIM FUNNY PAPERS HE ASKED FOR THE FUNNIES. I NEVER ASKED HIM FOR HIS NUMBER EITHER OR SITUATION. PLEASE DONT BREAK DOWN PAUL. PLEASE
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7 of 13

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Re: Lennon was a closet Republican: Assistant
« Reply #110 on: May 02, 2012, 02:53:34 AM »

Wrong author!

Now if you want to know exactly what Mean Mister Mustard yelled at The Queen, and how obscene it was...

 ;)
he sleeps in the can. in the shade and in the dark. that's beautiful man.
 ;yes
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day tripper yeah

7 of 13

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Re: Lennon was a closet Republican: Assistant
« Reply #111 on: May 09, 2012, 02:14:24 AM »

AND WHY DOES PAUL WANT MY MONEY DOSENT HE HAVE ENOUGH ALREADY? AND OF COURSE I GIVE HIM FUNNY PAPERS HE ASKED FOR THE FUNNIES. I NEVER ASKED HIM FOR HIS NUMBER EITHER OR SITUATION. PLEASE DONT BREAK DOWN PAUL. PLEASE
took the words right out of my mouth.
 ;yes
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TomMo

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Re: Lennon was a closet Republican: Assistant
« Reply #112 on: June 07, 2012, 05:30:20 AM »

Lennon was a mass of contradictions:

A pacifist who got in a fight after the famous "Smothers Brothers" incident.
An anti-Semitic who hired two Jewish managers.
A homophobe who shared a hotel room with a man he knew to be gay.

Lennon donated money to leftist causes, yet he also donated money to the NYPD in 1979 to buy bulletproof vests.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/17/weekinreview/17decurtis.html

In short, Lennon was a human being. And to that I say, "Thank God!"
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Snoopy66

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Re: Lennon was a closet Republican: Assistant
« Reply #113 on: June 07, 2012, 06:35:43 AM »

An anti-Semitic who hired two Jewish managers.
A homophobe who shared a hotel room with a man he knew to be gay.
John had his flaws and contradictions like anybody else, but he was neither anti-semitic, nor homophobe.

Snoopy
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stevejrogers

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Re: Lennon was a closet Republican: Assistant
« Reply #114 on: June 07, 2012, 03:05:20 PM »

Lennon donated money to leftist causes, yet he also donated money to the NYPD in 1979 to buy bulletproof vests.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/17/weekinreview/17decurtis.html


Out of curiosity, where is the contradictory behavior in these actions?

Yes some of Lennon's more leftist causes were against excessive state official brutality and legal punishments, but one would think donating money so the NYPD would have better protection doesn't equate to justifying them in cases where a cop, or multiple cops, go, or are perceived to be by the masses, over the line with extreme measures in taking down a suspect or what have you.
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Kangaroo Kev

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Re: Lennon was a closet Republican: Assistant
« Reply #115 on: June 08, 2012, 01:27:41 AM »

a cynic might suggest donating money to nypd was a clever way of getting the cops 'on board'
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TomMo

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Re: Lennon was a closet Republican: Assistant
« Reply #116 on: June 12, 2012, 03:36:39 PM »

John had his flaws and contradictions like anybody else, but he was neither anti-semitic, nor homophobe.

Snoopy

I have to disagree with you, Snoopy. Please understand that Lennon was close to being a "hero" for me. I accept John for who he was, warts and all. But there are plenty of sources that indicate that John was both anti-Semitic and a homophobe, at least through his Beatle years. Did his views soften in the 70's? Most likely. I've cited sources in other posts, but I highly recommend Larry Kane's book about the U.S. tours. Since Mr. Kane is both Jewish and a big Lennon fan, his anecdotes might be very enlightening.

So much of John's early attitudes were shaped by his Northern England/Liverpool upbringing, which both John and Paul have discussed in interviews.
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TomMo

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Re: Lennon was a closet Republican: Assistant
« Reply #117 on: June 12, 2012, 03:47:42 PM »

Out of curiosity, where is the contradictory behavior in these actions?

Yes some of Lennon's more leftist causes were against excessive state official brutality and legal punishments, but one would think donating money so the NYPD would have better protection doesn't equate to justifying them in cases where a cop, or multiple cops, go, or are perceived to be by the masses, over the line with extreme measures in taking down a suspect or what have you.

Contradictory? Well, no more contradictory than if Macca were to invest in McDonald's.

My intention was not to slam John. He was my favorite Beatle and always will be. But I do detect a bit of revisionist history taking place to make John's image a bit more politically correct. See my other posts if you're really interested. But I'd rather read about John, the human being, not Saint John. Even Macca has decried the posthumous sainthood of John, or in Paul's words, the "Martin Luther Lennon" syndrome.
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Snoopy66

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Re: Lennon was a closet Republican: Assistant
« Reply #118 on: June 13, 2012, 06:45:14 AM »

Even Macca has decried the posthumous sainthood of John, or in Paul's words, the "Martin Luther Lennon" syndrome.
Sorry, but Macca's statement is pretty irrelevant to me, since he's probably jealous of the iconic figure John has always been (and still is). Paul can live another 20 years; he'll never be an "icon" like John and he knows that.

What the "Martin Luther Lennon syndrome" concerns... well, that's bullsh** to me  roll:) There is a reasonable balance between great admiration and regarding him as a saint. I think "true" fans know what I mean. Just because John may have made remarks or fun (like many other people do) about jews and gays, calling him "anti-semitic and "homophobe" is going to far IMHO.

The only thing he can be blame for was to be big-mouthed and to say aloud what other people or artist just thinks, but are afraid to speak about. John wasn't more contradictory than anyone else.

Snoopy
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TomMo

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Re: Lennon was a closet Republican: Assistant
« Reply #119 on: June 13, 2012, 03:22:40 PM »

Sorry, but Macca's statement is pretty irrelevant to me, since he's probably jealous of the iconic figure John has always been (and still is). Paul can live another 20 years; he'll never be an "icon" like John and he knows that.

What the "Martin Luther Lennon syndrome" concerns... well, that's bullsh** to me  roll:) There is a reasonable balance between great admiration and regarding him as a saint. I think "true" fans know what I mean. Just because John may have made remarks or fun (like many other people do) about jews and gays, calling him "anti-semitic and "homophobe" is going to far IMHO.

The only thing he can be blame for was to be big-mouthed and to say aloud what other people or artist just thinks, but are afraid to speak about. John wasn't more contradictory than anyone else.

Snoopy

Well, Snoopy, we can agree to disagree. I respect your opinion. It's just that the totality of John's views in his youth and beyond shows Lennon as being typical for a boy that grew up in Liverpool in the 40's and 50's. To use a phrase that has become passe' in recent years, would you not agree that John was once a "male chauvinist" in his attitude toward women? IMHO, his views on gays and Jews were just as neanderthal as a younger man. But he matured or evolved or grew as a person (as most of us did), and became more tolerant (at least) or enlightened (at best). If my opinion is correct, it's just another reason to appreciate John.
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