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Fox Hunting (And General Animal Cruelty Issues)

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Jai Guru Deva.:
Hello folks,

I apologise if there is already a thread with a similar discussion about various forms of animal cruelty floating around here, but I'm speaking about something that's current and happening now, so I figured I could get away with a new one.  Mods, feel free to merge me with another thread if I'm wrong.  :)
Well, it's with a very heavy heart that I'm asking you guys to take a look at something that, if it wasn't deadly important, I otherwise would really not want you to see.  I don't doubt that almost everyone on here is aware of what goes on in the realms of fox hunting in the UK, and before I begin, I must stress that I am not here to antagonise anyone here who may be in favour of fox hunting.  If you are, then I'm not going to get stroppy and pass my judgements here personally - that's not what I'm here for, I don't want an argument.  Everyone has the right to their own opinion.  I'm merely here to show people a side of fox hunting that they may not have realised was there, and hopefully give people a catalyst to act upon how they feel and change this country for the better.  Even if you are not from the UK, you can make a difference - I'll explain.

Here in the UK, fox hunting was indeed banned, but recently there has been an uproar about repealing the law so that it can carry on legally once more.  After much surveying, the local MPs of every town all over the UK gave their opinions, and a large amount were against the idea.  However, typical of our dear British government, they've decided to ignore the public's feelings, and are talking about repealing the ban anyway, to please the practitioners of this so called 'sport'.  No matter what kind of person you believe yourself to be, or whatever opinions and morals you may have, you must agree that cruel acts against both humans and animals for nothing more than sick pleasure is inhumane, right?  That's right - fox hunting is not just affecting the foxes themselves - innocent people are getting dragged into this, too.

A group against hunting has made a film compiled of homemade footage shot by ordinary people living in areas where fox hunting still takes place.  That's right - STILL takes place...  but isn't it illegal?  Yes.  What this film points out is that David Cameron himself has secretly affiliated himself with these hunters and given them permission to carry on regardless of the law, which regardless of your opinion on fox hunting, you have to admit is shameful - he's knowingly and willingly permitting illegal activities to continue.  What I'm going to post a link to isn't the full film, which shows Cameron's allegience with these people - it's a shorter trailer.  The actual film will be available soon, I think.  The footage in this trailer spells out in plain daylight what is going on within these communities, and shows not only how innocent animals are suffering because of it, but innocent people too.  Remember that fox hunting is nothing more than game - it does not provide anything for the community, it does not aid the animal kingdom - it has no purpose other than unnecessary entertainment.

WARNING:  The video at this link contains graphic footage of fox hunting in action - this includes uncensored physical violence and ultimately death where the foxes are concerned, and also strong human-on-human physical violence, which is almost what I want you to see more than the fox hunting - it's what's going on in these communities to innocent people, carried out by hunters who know what they're doing is wrong, but believe themselves to be superior to normal folk - and fight to 'prove' it.  The film also contains strong language, but to be honest, it's barely noticeable in contrast to the rest of it.  Of course, the 'shock value' of these types of films is usually the catalyst for people to stand up for what they believe in, so if you want to learn more and feel you can deal with these images, please go ahead.  However, I don't want to cause anyone upset, so if you're really badly affected by this sort of thing, feel free to skip the video.  I'm certainly not here to push this into the faces of anyone who doesn't wish to see it.  :)

Here is the link:  http://www.save-me.org.uk/we-support/

I understand that this has always been, and probably always will be a touchy subject, but Britain needs to get its collective head together once and for all - there is so much cruelty, violence, poverty and injustice in this world, and some of it is beyond our control.  But folks, animal cruelty IS under our control, and the only people who can change it is YOU.  If we all stand united, we can really make a difference.  I'm sorry for the absolute essay, but these things can rarely be done by halves.
If you'd like to make a difference, you can start right now, from the comfort of your chair;  there are many organizations that fight for the rights of our dear animals, and they all have online petitions that you can sign to announce that you're on their side.  Remember that animals cannot fight for themselves - the only voice they have is us.  We have to speak out and make sure that they're heard.

Sign a quick and easy petition here:


The organisation League Against Cruel Sports has a whole array of great information about fox hunting and many other forms of animal cruelty, including a phone number for the Hunt Crimewatch - if you live in the UK in an area where you see fox hunting still happening, you can report it.  The link is here:  http://www.league.org.uk/content/325/What-Can-You-Do-
On the same website, you can make donations of any amount you like, in any currency, so people around the world, if you feel moved by this, you can contribute to our cause.  It doesn't have to be a large amount - any contribution is greatly valued, and will go towards the funding of all LACS anti-cruelty organisations and events.

If you are unsure about all this, you probably have some questions about whether fox hunting really is cruel or not - and that's perfectly understandable.  If you'd like to hear both for and against opinions, there is a section on the website of the animal rights group Save Me, set up by Brian May of Queen, who has been, and still is, very active in the field of ending animal cruelty.  There is some good information about how fox hunting affects things and opinions from both sides of the coin, as it were.  You can find this here, but the whole website is good:  http://www.save-me.org.uk/lame-claims/

If you're worried about coming across any more grizzly images while browsing these links, don't worry - you won't find any.  The only shocking thing posted here was the video.  All of the other links are perfectly safe to browse, so don't hesitate.

Once again, sorry for the huge post!  And I honestly do not mean to offend anyone or instigate any arguments through this; everyone is entitled to their own opinion, whether we agree or not, so I'm of course not going to argue with anyone about this - we've all got our rights to freedom of speech.  Let's respect each other and keep any conversation to harmless discussion.  Please don't think of this as a big "let's all be hippies and live in a big orgy in the middle of a field with animals running all over the place and everything completely out of control" speech, folks!  It's not about that, it's a matter of human morals - if the majority of people feel that something is wrong, it should be stopped.  There's no need for unnecessary death in any place or situation.

Mods, if you find anything wrong with this thread, particularly the link to the video, please edit it in any way you see fit.

Thanks guys, all the best.


I dont live in the UK so I cant comment about it much but I am against foxhunting, cockfighting, Hair coursing, Dog fighting and Bullfighting, surely any sport that involves cruelty to animals is wrong.

I doubt though that the PM would secretly tell people that they could go on breaking the law, would he really risk his whole political career for a few upper class twits ?

If I were making a case against it I wouldnt make those allegations unless I had absolute proof that he had done that, ie a video a tape recording or a letter telling them its ok to carry on.
If they havent got such proof the people who are in favour of the sport will just accuse them of making things up to get a left wing (labour) government back in power, they will say it is politically motivated and that will destroy some credibility for the anti hunt brigade.

Jai Guru Deva.:
I think the full film that's being released, not just the trailer I posted, has some form of evidential footage of this issue.  I haven't seen it yet, I don't think it's been released in its entirety yet.  Even if there is no evidence, it's not really the crux of the matter - if we could prove that Cameron is doing this, then it would greatly help the cause, but it's not essential.  The real issue here is morals, and whether we're prepared to stand up and fight for what's right, or lay down and take it.  I think people are scared of speaking out about these touchy subjects because not only is it very hard to be taken seriously as an animal rights supporter, it automatically puts you in a category that has a strong opposition, whether you're for or against.  People are relentlessly fighting this tug-of-war on both sides.  To be honest, I was fully expecting to log back on here and recieve a barrage of such opposition myself for posting this!!!  I certainly hope we can change the minds of the people in the right places and make sure no animal suffers unnecessarily again.


Jai Guru Deva.:
I'm aware that this isn't exactly a popular thread, but I feel as though I should still try to catch people's attention about the things we animal lovers feel are important.

The UK government recently put the 'green light' on a project which will, over the next five years (beginning next year), cull literally thousands of badgers across the UK, in an attempt to stop the spread of bovine tuberculosis, a disease that results in the death of thousands of cows a year.  While it is true that badgers can carry bovine TB, eradicating as many of them as possible will NOT stop the spread of the disease - and certainly not cure it.  The proper solution to bovine TB is to vaccinate cows against it, and eradicate it at its source.  There is a vaccination program in development, but it won't be complete and ready for use until 2015.  The government has decided that they can't wait that long, and despite the fact that 69% of the British population expressed that they don't want the mass badger cull to go ahead, they've put it into action anyway, against the wishes of the country.  Not only this, they are permitting farmers to shoot badgers on sight, which is detrimental to the cause.  It's called perturbation effect - badgers remain in their setts and are not huge wanderers, but when shot at, they will inevitably scatter and spread to new places which they would not normally go, therefore spreading the disease further if they happen to carry it.

We believe that the badger cull is an inhumane and wreckless decision, chiefly because a huge number of the badgers in question are not carrying the disease, so we will be essentially murdering a large amount of innocent creatures, and a small amount of creatures that do carry the disease, but won't necessarily spread it if undisturbed.  It's very important to remember that science has proven that culling badgers will NOT eradicate bovine tuberculosis - it may slightly help to limit its spread, but this is not the issue.  We should focus on vaccinating our cattle to ensure that they become immune to it, and thus there will be no further concern with its potential spread.  It's true, bovine TB affects our meat and dairy industries in a strong way, but it should be dealt with by immunising and curing our cows, where the disease first manifests, and NOT by hacking down thousands of badgers who are capable of carrying it, but aren't responsible for its effect upon cattle.

If you agree with this, please feel free to sign these e-petitions.  One is for reversing the decision to cull the badgers in England, and the other is in Wales, I believe.



Also, if you'd like some more information on the subject, this is a good, informative article:  http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/blog/2011/aug/11/badger-cull-dont-stop-bovine-tb?INTCMP=SRCH

Thanks everyone.  Please spread the word - let's eradicate animal cruelty, step by step!



--- Quote from: Jai Guru Deva. on August 12, 2011, 08:11:59 PM ---I'm aware that this isn't exactly a popular thread, but I feel as though I should still try to catch people's attention about the things we animal lovers feel are important.

--- End quote ---

I did pay attention. It's terrible to see what people can do to animals. When my children had the age of not wanting to sleep in the middle of the night, I used to turn the tv on and watch Animal Planet. The series of the Animal Cops kept me awake even longer...

Good luck with the petition and everything.


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