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Author Topic: Cee Lo Green changes Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics to include pro-religion message  (Read 7936 times)

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nimrod

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Without spelling to much out for you, you do realize he was a womanizer, horrible father, herion junkie, drunk and an all around prick to most people he knew right?

Yeah, what a saint.

 ha2ha
are you a journo Todd ?

That description could fit most rock stars out there

Womanizer = name me a rock star who hasnt bedded a few groupie's (and dont say Paul, he's shagged more women than Ive had hot dinners  ha2ha)

Horrible Father = I take it you mean to Julian, he certainly wasnt to Sean, he was a great father, as far as Julian is concerned, unlucky for him he was a child in an unhappy marriage, his father suddenly became one of the most famous men in the world, who had bigger demands on his time than me or you will ever come to know, his presence was suddenly reqd in every country in the world......how could he be with Julian as a full time father, non of the others had that problem..........anyway whether he was that bad, you'd have to ask Julian, only he knows, Im not gonna believe what people write in books/newspapers, Ive seen loads of pictures of John with Julian. (even in Fred Seamans book)

Heroin Junkie/Drunk = again the excesses of many many rock/Jazz musicians over the years, hendrix/Clapton/Joplin/Morrison/Townsend/Miles Davis/Charlie Parker/Jaco Pastorius/John Coltrane etc etc ..........were they all pricks?

I dont think you or I could even begin to imagine the pressures of mega stardom, not until youve been there and done that.
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tkitna

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ha2ha
are you a journo Todd ?

That description could fit most rock stars out there

Most rock stars arent looked upon as God's gift to peace and love though Kevin.

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Womanizer = name me a rock star who hasnt bedded a few groupie's (and dont say Paul, he's shagged more women than Ive had hot dinners  ha2ha)

I realize most, if not all, rockstars screwed a few women, but I cant recall many of them taking one to their wifes bed and waiting for her and your small child to come home to witness it.

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Horrible Father = I take it you mean to Julian, he certainly wasnt to Sean, he was a great father, as far as Julian is concerned, unlucky for him he was a child in an unhappy marriage, his father suddenly became one of the most famous men in the world, who had bigger demands on his time than me or you will ever come to know, his presence was suddenly reqd in every country in the world......how could he be with Julian as a full time father, non of the others had that problem..........anyway whether he was that bad, you'd have to ask Julian, only he knows, Im not gonna believe what people write in books/newspapers, Ive seen loads of pictures of John with Julian. (even in Fred Seamans book)

Sorry, I cant agree with you here. Being famous or not, I could never be a sh*tty father to my children and as far as I know, Julian hasent been quick with those father of the year awards. John even told Paul on holiday that he didnt know how to be a father. I'll take his word for it.

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Heroin Junkie/Drunk = again the excesses of many many rock/Jazz musicians over the years, hendrix/Clapton/Joplin/Morrison/Townsend/Miles Davis/Charlie Parker/Jaco Pastorius/John Coltrane etc etc ..........were they all pricks?

But he was an angel wasnt he? Thats how people look at him. As for being a prick, I cant say about the others. I'm only going off of what friends and people associated with John have said. Even John said it himself.

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I dont think you or I could even begin to imagine the pressures of mega stardom, not until youve been there and done that.

Never said I could, nor am I seen as the embodiment of a peace and love activist.

tkitna

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John might have been an Angel, but he could also be a theif, a bully and a selfish bas---- too.

Agreed

nimrod

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I think Albert Goldman summed John up very well, he said he could be anything basically, a very complex character who could write a song as beautiful as Love and next day be quite nasty..

Ive certainly never thought he was any sort of angel  ha2ha

Im thinking though that if your asked to choose between Mum & Dad at a very young age and then brought up by your strict aunt while Mum doesnt want you .....it would have a quite a lasting and damaging effect on your mind
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tkitna

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I think Albert Goldman summed John up very well, he said he could be anything basically, a very complex character who could write a song as beautiful as Love and next day be quite nasty..

Yeah, thats about a perfect description.

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Ive certainly never thought he was any sort of angel  ha2ha

7 of 13 said he was though.

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Im thinking though that if your asked to choose between Mum & Dad at a very young age and then brought up by your strict aunt while Mum doesnt want you .....it would have a quite a lasting and damaging effect on your mind

I agree, but is that excuse enough to give him a free pass? I know some awesome people that have come from worse.

nimrod

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I agree, but is that excuse enough to give him a free pass? I know some awesome people that have come from worse.

who knows mate, who knows
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BeatlesAtTheirBest

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Im thinking though that if your asked to choose between Mum & Dad at a very young age and then brought up by your strict aunt while Mum doesnt want you .....it would have a quite a lasting and damaging effect on your mind

Yeah, John Lennon spent his whole life complaining how he was abandoned at 6, only to do the exact same thing to his son Julian.

Nice.

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  As far as Julian is concerned, unlucky for him he was a child in an unhappy marriage, his father suddenly became one of the most famous men in the world, who had bigger demands on his time than me or you will ever come to know, his presence was suddenly reqd in every country in the world......how could he be with Julian as a full time father, non of the others had that problem..........anyway whether he was that bad, you'd have to ask Julian, only he knows, Im not gonna believe what people write in books/newspapers, Ive seen loads of pictures of John with Julian. (even in Fred Seamans book)

John didn't dump his son Julian during Beatlemania.  He dumped him in 1968 and then had almost nothing to do with him until shortly before his death.  Show me some photos of John & his son Julian taken in the 10 years between 1969-1979.

I say again.  Nice.

« Last Edit: January 22, 2012, 01:37:06 PM by BeatlesAtTheirBest »
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The Beatles (1960-1970) - John, Stu, Paul, George, Pete & Ringo

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7 of 13

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John might have been an Angel, but he could also be a thief(sic), a bully and a selfish bas---- too.
such mindless, irrelevant and impotent speculation. i'll give you half-credit for the real John Lennon being a bully.
 ;sorry
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day tripper yeah

7 of 13

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Without spelling to much out for you, you do realize he was a womanizer, horrible father, herion junkie, drunk and an all around prick to most people he knew right?

Yeah, what a saint.
wait a minute. you are holding the real life john lennon and the mythical Beatle john lennon to a sloppy and ridiculous collection of mediocre double standards. besides that is the film noir version of john lennon, probably a very poor reflection of the truth. unbelievable.

john lennon was a flesh and blood human being just like the rest of us, but most of what you have stated is bogus, colorless and irrelevant speculation. and you don't bother to explain the whys, hows or wherefores of this and how this supposedly makes john lennon a good or a bad person.

I think Albert Goldman summed John up very well, he said he could be anything basically, a very complex character who could write a song as beautiful as Love and next day be quite nasty..
i don't know about the quite nasty the next day-shapeshifter thing, but many have said that goldman overdid it and was inaccurate. in some many distinct places. 
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Ive certainly never thought he was any sort of angel  ha2ha
just wondering outloud, isn't that a big part of the teddy boy image.

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Im thinking though that if your asked to choose between Mum & Dad at a very young age and then brought up by your strict aunt while Mum doesnt want you .....it would have a quite a lasting and damaging effect on your mind
my thoughts exactly. and how he was treated in school, nobody is perfect.
 ;yes
« Last Edit: January 23, 2012, 12:43:42 AM by 7 of 13 »
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tkitna

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wait a minute. you are holding the real life john lennon and the mythical Beatle john lennon to a sloppy and ridiculous collection of mediocre double standards. besides that is the film noir version of john lennon, probably a very poor reflection of the truth. unbelievable.

john lennon was a flesh and blood human being just like the rest of us, but most of what you have stated is bogus, colorless and irrelevant speculation. and you don't bother to explain the whys, hows or wherefores of this and how this supposedly makes john lennon a good or a bad person.

Are you trying to say that my descriptions of him are not true? If so, you better pick up a book and do a lot of homework. John was indeed everything I said.

nimrod

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Yeah, John Lennon spent his whole life complaining how he was abandoned at 6, only to do the exact same thing to his son Julian.

Nice.



I think thats grossly unfair, I know your mainly a Pete Best fan but thats a terrible thing to say about him, I only hope Julian isnt reading these pages.......
John split up with Cyn, he knew absolutely that she was a good stay at home mother and could do a hundred times better job than him in bringing Julian up, him being on the road or in the studio all night/day etc etc
John was in the biggest band in the world, should he have fought for custody only to employ a nanny to bring him up day to day ?

John obviously didnt love Cyn, are you saying he shouldve stayed with a woman he had no love for until Julian was grown up ?

and are you saying everyone who is in a loveless marriage should do that ?

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peterbell1

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Not sure what any of this has to do with Cee Lo Green's version of Imagine, but I'll chip in anyway...  ha2ha

I wouldn't say, as someone did earlier in this thread, that John "abandoned" Julian between 69 and 79. John did spend time with Julian when he and Yoko were still living in the UK - John, Yoko, Julian and Kyoko went on holiday to Scotland in June 69 ...


(the choice of outfit could certainly count as cruelty to children though  ;D )

Julian also spent time at Tittenhurst with J+Y, and he features in the Imagine film.
Obviously, after J+Y left for the States the time with Julian was cut to irregular visits, but there were still letters and calls across the Atlantic between the two (some of the letters and gifts John sent to Julian ended up in the excellent White Feather exhibition that Julian put together in Liverpool.) And Julian had a cameo appearance on the Walls and Bridges LP. So I certainly wouldn't say that John abandoned Julian altogether.

However, on the other side of the coin, someone earlier in the thread was defending John's poor treatment of Julian because John was in the biggest band in the world and there were a lot of demands on his time. Well, Macca never seemed to have had a problem with spending time with his step-daughter while he was still in the Beatles or with his own kids once they arrived in the '70s. Obviously, it's a different scenario because Paul was in a stable relationship with Linda while John and Cynthia had split up, and Paul had had the benefit of having the presence of a loving father himself, (unlike John), but I still do think that John could, and should, have made more effort with his first son.

So it's a complex picture - Lennon certainly wasn't a saint or an angel, but he wasn't a complete and utter b*stard either.

I've always wondered if I would even have liked John if I ever had the chance to spend time with him, but it still doesn't detract from the fact that he made some amazing music - and I count Imagine among that (just to keep this thread on topic slightly!). And he did indeed spend a fair bit of his own time in the late 60s/early 70s campaigning for a more peaceful world, which was no bad thing.

This sort of thread would probably never take off with Macca or Ringo as subjects - George, perhaps, was complex enough to promote this sort of discussion, and John definitely was, so we should be grateful at least that he has given us something to talk about!!  ;)
« Last Edit: January 23, 2012, 11:02:26 AM by peterbell1 »
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7 of 13

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Are you trying to say that my descriptions of him are not true? If so, you better pick up a book and do a lot of homework. John was indeed everything I said.
that's exactly what i'm saying. you can't seem to separate the real john lennon from the mythical beatle john lennon, and you seem quite content to holding him to incomplete and obtuse doublestandards, moral relativism, womanizer, etc.
 ;sorry
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day tripper yeah

Nada Surf

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Goldman took indecent liberties with others' quotes of John Lennon, but most of his book was factual.
Lennon's treatment of Julian was pathetic.
Like Kitna said, his childhood ruined him mentally and he need lots of psychiatric help.
Just don't buy this baking bread every day while raising Sean. He did none of that.
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nimrod

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Just don't buy this baking bread every day while raising Sean. He did none of that.

you were in the Dakota at the time eh mate ?   

 ha2ha
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tkitna

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that's exactly what i'm saying. you can't seem to separate the real john lennon from the mythical beatle john lennon, and you seem quite content to holding him to incomplete and obtuse doublestandards, moral relativism, womanizer, etc.
 ;sorry

See this is why its so hard to talk to you on this forum. You look at everything the exact opposite of how it really is. You say I cant seperate the real John Lennon from the mythical Beatle persona and thats exactly what i'm doing. The mythical Beatle John is portrayed as a fun loving guy who was so whimsical that it was almost impossible not to love him (just look at 95% of this forum), but yet the real John Lennon was not a great person.

Whether you choose the fact to turn a blind eye or not is totally up to you, but the facts are that John cheated on Cynthia and Yoko (some say he beat her but I dont know that for sure), was not a good father to Julian, was a jerk to a lot of his friends, took many drugs, and went through periods where he drank like a fish. If you know anything about the guy, you'll know this to be true. Was he a terrible person all the time, no, but i'm betting it was way more often than people want to believe.

There's just a lot of things he did that rubs me the wrong way. I mean, who goes and has an affair with a woman even if their wife tells them to? Thats wrong. He was married and took his vows. People shouldnt go out and break those vows, but then again, I wouldnt hold John Lennon to stick by those standards and he didnt. I still believe his mouth got Stu killed. Sure it was an accident, but they shouldnt have been in that position in the first place. I also believe he had a homosexual relationship with Brian too and I dont believe in that either, but thats here nor there. Speaking of being cruel to people, its been said that he was horrible to Brian but I wasnt there. Anyways, all of these things seem to be pushed aside by Beatle fans. Just as long as John was singing about giving peace a chance and imagining things, he could never have been a bad person now could he?

nimrod

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Anyways, all of these things seem to be pushed aside by Beatle fans.


what do you mean by that ?
I dont push anything aside.... I dont care if he had an affair, I dont care if he got drunk etc etc and why do you choose to believe that he had an affair with Brian ? why do you believe somebody like Albert Goldman over Paul George & ringo, and even if he did I dont care, Im not the oracle of all thats moral, I believe in live & let live, all I know is he was originally the leader of a band I absolutely loved and still love 40 years on, I will be forever and eternally grateful to John & Paul for the brilliant songs they wrote which have been the soundtrack to my early life - and millions of others, I feel really blessed that I grew up listening to them..

Ive no idea why posters come on here talking about what a horrible lousy prick of a human being John was because Fred Seaman said so or Elliot Mintz or Goldman or whoever, Ive no idea what they hope to achieve, is it supposed to make me no longer a fan  of Johns ?, cos if thats your agenda then forget it, Its not gonna happen, I really couldnt give a flying feck whether he baked bread or not......if there is a different reason then please explain.
I love the guy and his great songs have given me so much pleasure and I hope they play A Day In The Life at my funeral.

Thats my last words on that and I hope people will now please stop treating the guy like he was a mass murderer
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Lennon93

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of course John wasn't saint, and everybody here knows that but when somebody writes something like when in truth, he was a horrible human being and manipulator that is something offensive for a lot of people here. I don't understand you tkitna. I guess you were brainwashed by some stupid book or something.

Just like i said, i think he was a great guy. He made some mistakes but we all do. But reading your posts tkitna i cant but not to see some deep hatred for him. Seems like you are just waiting for something to hear and drop it here with words i don't know but i believe it true. Drinking or taking drugs doesn't make somebody horrible person - those problems were John's personal demons not ours.

I love after all that post full of hatred (horrible person, junkie, wife beater, jerk, homosexual, got Stu killed,... ) how you mentioned the most important thing John was singing about giving peace a chance. And that is a fact. You may think whatever you want but John sang and fought for peace. And nobody can't take that from him.
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Ovi

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of course John wasn't saint, and everybody here knows that but when somebody writes something like when in truth, he was a horrible human being and manipulator that is something offensive for a lot of people here. I don't understand you tkitna. I guess you were brainwashed by some stupid book or something.

Just like i said, i think he was a great guy. He made some mistakes but we all do. But reading your posts tkitna i cant but not to see some deep hatred for him. Seems like you are just waiting for something to hear and drop it here with words i don't know but i believe it true. Drinking or taking drugs doesn't make somebody horrible person - those problems were John's personal demons not ours.

I love after all that post full of hatred (horrible person, junkie, wife beater, jerk, homosexual, got Stu killed,... ) how you mentioned the most important thing John was singing about giving peace a chance. And that is a fact. You may think whatever you want but John sang and fought for peace. And nobody can't take that from him.

I don't think that tkitna has any problems with John as a person, but with the fact that people see him as a "god" rather than a succesful musician. Of course he wasn't perfect but that's not the point of this debate. I think he made himself pretty clear in his previous posts. :)
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7 of 13

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what do you mean by that ?
I dont push anything aside.... I dont care if he had an affair, I dont care if he got drunk etc etc and why do you choose to believe that he had an affair with Brian ? why do you believe somebody like Albert Goldman over Paul George & ringo, and even if he did I dont care, Im not the oracle of all thats moral, I believe in live & let live, all I know is he was originally the leader of a band I absolutely loved and still love 40 years on, I will be forever and eternally grateful to John & Paul for the brilliant songs they wrote which have been the soundtrack to my early life - and millions of others, I feel really blessed that I grew up listening to them..

Ive no idea why posters come on here talking about what a horrible lousy prick of a human being John was because Fred Seaman said so or Elliot Mintz or Goldman or whoever, Ive no idea what they hope to achieve, is it supposed to make me no longer a fan  of Johns ?, cos if thats your agenda then forget it, Its not gonna happen, I really couldnt give a flying feck whether he baked bread or not......if there is a different reason then please explain.
I love the guy and his great songs have given me so much pleasure and I hope they play A Day In The Life at my funeral.

Thats my last words on that and I hope people will now please stop treating the guy like he was a mass murderer
thank you. well said nimrod.

Quote from: tkitna
...but yet the real John Lennon was not a great person
or so you say. seems to me you are just hating upon john lennon, and little else, your extremely dull and haphazardous moralizations knows no bounds. and are hardly reflective of the truth.

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Was he a terrible person all the time, no, but i'm betting it was way more often than people want to believe.
you don't really know, you certainly weren't there, so your incongruent, sloppy and vapid opinions merit little concern. and if you would be so kind, stop playing the he-said-she-said game, it is IMHO counterproductive.  ;)

your drunken and shapeless ad hominem strawmen aside, you do continue to make careless, colorless and irrelevant generalizations, this is incredible nonsense.
 ;yes
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