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Author Topic: Pete Best kicked out for money  (Read 3727 times)

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topperking99

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Pete Best kicked out for money
« on: March 21, 2012, 09:44:23 PM »

This has probably been discussed before -  :-*
In the book: Liddypool: Birthplace of The Beatles - it turns out that Pete was kicked out for money & not drumming! & John & George were in on it too.
Now, Pete wrote the forward, so  maybe he's trying to sway things away from the drumming issue. But, it sounds convincing, the author paints a pretty good picture.
What are your thoughts?

p.s. listening to the Decca outtakes & cavern club stuff with Pete, he's not as bad as others make him out to be.
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tkitna

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Re: Pete Best kicked out for money
« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2012, 12:54:11 AM »

Can you elaborate a little on the money aspect? Did Ringo make less when he was signed?

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tkitna

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Re: Pete Best kicked out for money
« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2012, 10:36:10 AM »

Hmph, I commented on the article three years ago. Thats enough for me.

topperking99

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Re: Pete Best kicked out for money
« Reply #4 on: March 22, 2012, 02:14:09 PM »

Can you elaborate a little on the money aspect? Did Ringo make less when he was signed?

Actually yes, Ringo also made less money. It was like he was on a retainer till they found out if he was good enough. There is a link on this post that has the actual article.
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62redux

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Re: Pete Best kicked out for money
« Reply #5 on: March 31, 2012, 09:52:03 PM »

This has probably been discussed before -  :-*
In the book: Liddypool: Birthplace of The Beatles - it turns out that Pete was kicked out for money & not drumming! & John & George were in on it too.
Now, Pete wrote the forward, so  maybe he's trying to sway things away from the drumming issue. But, it sounds convincing, the author paints a pretty good picture.
What are your thoughts?

p.s. listening to the Decca outtakes & cavern club stuff with Pete, he's not as bad as others make him out to be.

i had posted the Liddy dismissal chapter back in '09 before it was published.  Sorry have not been aorund here much.  i posted a reply comment last night but it didnt seem to post up yet..maybe moderator is reviewing. im not sure.

the foreword isn't really an endorsement of the dismissal chapter, but rather an appreciation the early history being explored, in particular the chapter about the casbah coffee club.   Also, the authors dismissal discussion goes more into some studio economics, but concludes, appropriately, that PB made a very important contribution to the band, and is an integral part of the band's history.   

it's doubtful that brian the businessman wold acquiese to such a a scheme based on 1p / record, considering how the GM contract was the last, and only, offer they had, it doesn't make much sense to squbble over a measly 25 percent share of a penny, and then not tell the producer himself that they want to make a material change to the band behind his (GM's) back....all for the sake of a 1/4 share of a penny ?  If they told that to GM, he'd laugh them out of the studio...and say "grow up...you 4 boys are the band i saw live, and the drummer guy is the marketable image as well...this is the band i signed to contract"

Aside from that, remember the 1983 (or '82?)  book by peter brown and steve gaines.  The Intro even goes into how very few people were still alive who cold tell the story, including brown. the others listed specifically were, john, paul, george ringo ("the beatles themselves"), and neil aspinall.   Um, PB ws very much alive when this "insider" book was being researched and documented.  Taking another look at the book some 30 years later , it reads almost as if PB was no longer was on the planet, even though the book was published a mere 20 years after dismissal.   

Take a look at the sequence that brown lays out in TLYM. and keep in mind the mucho thanks to the contributors, including ringo starr for "his long and candid interview".    My comment: there was a narrative that all members of the beatles, and neil a., appear to have agreed on to descibe the dismissal sequence of events...and it spreads out over a few different paragraphs...to tell a story very different from what all other books describe.  It's quite simple actually..but was surprising when i went back to the book after discussing the Liddypool authors 1p theory with him.  i said "ya know..it may be a defenseible plausible theory, but it's not so rational to make such a change, swapping in an unrehearsed drummer whom the producer has never even seen or heard, AND, add to that: they'd be playing originals that not even the new drummer has never heard himself.  How was he ever going to learn to play the originals in the studio, when he'd never even played the songs with them ever before.?   

As history showed, RS did not do well on sept 4 1962 when he arrived.  Related note: Brown's TLYM conveniently excludes RS's sept 4 1962 studio debut with the boys.  why?  it fits the dismissal narrative better...because he DOEs mention that GM had already arranged for Andy White, which conveniently supports "using a studio drummer instead of pb". 

The reality is: RS, barely 3 weeks with his new band, was in studio on sept 4.. meeting GM for the first time with GM even wondering "who's this bloke?"  History reflects that RS did not so well on sept 4, and Andy white was called in after RS's debut was less than impressive.   TLYM spells it out quite differntly,..to the point of actually MISREPRESENTING (deliberaltely?) the story of RS's studio debut on sept 4.   (which prompts the question: is somethgn else--the dismissal ssequence-- also being deliberately misrepresented in TLYM, as agreed upon by the surving "insiders" including Ringo himself, back at the time of the interviews, 1979-82.  ?  ITs a fun premise to consider the question.

forget theories and all that...go have some fun and find the "pb dismissal / RS hired" sequence.  It's right there..plainly spelled out in the , ahem, ultimate "insiders" guide. It it will challenge what you've previously read over the years about that sequence.    If you'd like, i'll paste it up. 
« Last Edit: March 31, 2012, 10:41:51 PM by 62redux »
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topperking99

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Re: Pete Best kicked out for money
« Reply #6 on: April 02, 2012, 10:27:28 PM »


forget theories and all that...go have some fun and find the "pb dismissal / RS hired" sequence.  It's right there..plainly spelled out in the , ahem, ultimate "insiders" guide. It it will challenge what you've previously read over the years about that sequence.    If you'd like, i'll paste it up.

That's amazing - I would love if you post that.
Thanks
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glass onion

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Re: Pete Best kicked out for money
« Reply #7 on: April 04, 2012, 07:07:39 PM »

without being cruel or disrespectful to pete best,is there seriously anybody here who thinks pete was a better drummer than ringo?i don't,i think ringo was far superior.there may be something else behind petes' sacking,granted.but for drumming ability on its' own,it's ringo for me every time.pete best really did get a very raw deal with what happened.i'm very glad that with the anthology series he got what he deserved after so many years being out in the cold.his part in history is very safe if you ask me.the guy was a beatle....not many can say that.(i've met pete briefly,and he is a very,very nice feller).
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pc31

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Re: Pete Best kicked out for money
« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2012, 02:22:57 AM »

pete was sacked becoz he was the only one that fit in it....i would say they got rid of mona by getting rid of randolf...

Toejam

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Re: Pete Best kicked out for money
« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2012, 08:47:32 AM »

pete was sacked becoz he was the only one that fit in it....i would say they got rid of mona by getting rid of randolf...

Pete shoulda sacked John and Paul! ha ha ha
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TomMo

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Re: Pete Best kicked out for money
« Reply #10 on: June 19, 2012, 02:01:00 AM »

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BeatlesAtTheirBest

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Re: Pete Best kicked out for money
« Reply #11 on: June 19, 2012, 02:23:36 AM »




I don't think Bedfords comments are some kind of great break through.  Of course money played a part.  They kicked Ken Brown out of the Quarry Men and quit the Casbah because they wanted his money on a night he was sick.  Kicked Allan Williams to the curb the first chance they got to avoid paying him a commision.  Lennon stole the harmonica & guitar he was playing.  They even stole the sound systen the took to Hamburg from Liverpool Art School.

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TomMo

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Re: Pete Best kicked out for money
« Reply #12 on: June 19, 2012, 10:59:36 PM »




You got me, copper. I plead guilty. I must be the only one who ever tried to "hotlink a copyrighted cartoon without permission".

The ironic thing is that such acts usually serve as promotion for the copyright owner.

 ;sorry
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Ahme

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Re: Pete Best kicked out for money
« Reply #13 on: June 20, 2012, 12:07:35 PM »

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TomMo

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Re: Pete Best kicked out for money
« Reply #14 on: June 21, 2012, 01:25:44 AM »




This isn't the one I tried to post...but it's better. Let's see how long it stays up.
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nimrod

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Re: Pete Best kicked out for money
« Reply #15 on: March 10, 2014, 12:13:07 PM »

Hmmm
I just read in Mark Lewisohns book that Ringo joined on full 1/4 share of the money right from the word go.

He states it very definitely, The Beatles wanted Ringo in so bad and they went out of their way to make him a Beatle right from the the start.

He also goes into the very specific reasons why Pete was sacked, and money isn't mentioned.
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Pothos

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Re: Pete Best kicked out for money
« Reply #16 on: March 10, 2014, 12:53:34 PM »

Does Lewisohon go into any detail about how Ringo was recruited from Rory Storm and the Hurricanes. In Tom Egbers book (allowing for translation issues) the story is as follows.

John and Paul turn up at Butlin's Skegness for Ringo. They tell Johnny Guitar who is sharing a caravan with Ringo and who has just woken up that they want Ringo to join the Beatles. Ringo agrees on the spot.

All hell let's loose; Johnny G, Ringo, John and Paul go in search of Rory who has to be contacted by tanoy.  After tracking his down and after Rory thinking that this is at first a joke he is furious and after asking about the Pete Best situation he is told that Best is still not aware of his sacking which is happening later that day.  Rory is staggered by the events and cannot get over Ringo wanting to go or the actions of the others but realises he cannot stop any of it and this is going to impact on his band as they have still shows at the camp to honour. This all occurs on Wednesday August 15th 1962 at approx at 10 am. 

Ringo put his notice in to leave 48 hours later. Johnny G is furious and a row breaks out during the last 48 hoursin relation to everything from who owes who for stage wear and caravan fees. Also Rory did ask Best to join RSATH but Best was in a state of shock. The book paints an image of an angry set of lads feeling dumped on and that they knew about the sacking before Best did or at least the book implies that). RSATH seemed horrified at how Best was dropped.

A mess from beginning to end.

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nimrod

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Re: Pete Best kicked out for money
« Reply #17 on: March 10, 2014, 10:22:37 PM »

Does Lewisohon go into any detail about how Ringo was recruited from Rory Storm and the Hurricanes. In Tom Egbers book (allowing for translation issues) the story is as follows.


Yes and it didn't happen quite like that according to ML, it was George who instigated Ringo joining, he asked Ringo to join even before he went to Skegness, at this point Ringo was only a kind of stand in drummer with RSATH having already left them to do the gig in France.

I like how he analysed it thus;

John brought Paul in, Paul brought George in, George brought Ringo in.

What seems to be rubbish though is the theory that Pete was sacked for money reasons, the reason he was sacked eventually was that he never socialised with J.P & G and never really spoke to them much, mostly though his drumming was poor, his timing was out and he didn't have much of a range of beats that The Beatles needed, when he was ill for a couple of bookings Ringo stood in and they noticed a huge difference in the tightness of the band.

The final straw came though when George Martin told them he would always have to use a session drummer on their tracks, they had this vision of a non Beatle playing with them, someone they didn't know....maybe even some middle aged guy or different guys playing on ALL theyre recordings into the future, they certainly didn't want that, so George Martin more or less confirmed what they already knew - Pete wasn't good enough and couldn't keep time. Pete was a goner from that moment.

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Pothos

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Re: Pete Best kicked out for money
« Reply #18 on: March 10, 2014, 10:53:36 PM »

That is something that I think in the Tom Egbers book rings true though. Rory seemed to have a if you want a break from the band then have one policy and Ringo had played with other acts as had Lu.  In fact Ringo had essentially left the band a couple of times but had come back and although things at times were strained he was a valued member of the band.

What stuck out about the Skegness business is that he left during their residency and it is obvious that he was a very well regarded drummer on the scene but in the Tom Egbers version John and Paul recruited Ringo while Epstein sacked Best. The reason is never mentioned although RSATH are just stunned at the events let alone losing Ringo.
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nimrod

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Re: Pete Best kicked out for money
« Reply #19 on: March 10, 2014, 11:16:35 PM »

That is something that I think in the Tom Egbers book rings true though. Rory seemed to have a if you want a break from the band then have one policy and Ringo had played with other acts as had Lu.  In fact Ringo had essentially left the band a couple of times but had come back and although things at times were strained he was a valued member of the band.

What stuck out about the Skegness business is that he left during their residency and it is obvious that he was a very well regarded drummer on the scene but in the Tom Egbers version John and Paul recruited Ringo while Epstein sacked Best. The reason is never mentioned although RSATH are just stunned at the events let alone losing Ringo.

Yes there are different versions of all this

Ive always been sceptical of books on the subject of The Beatles, theres bound to be a lot of 'cashing in' on the worlds biggest ever act and a lot of poetic license has been printed

With Mark Lewisohn I tend to trust what he writes, I think if he cant find something out he will say its unknown ie no record. I like that, he doesn't create things.
For instance he mentions J & P going to Skegness on a Sunday, but he says there is no proof of this, and why would they hitchhike or go on public transport (taking forever) when the main instigator of getting Ringo in (George) had a Ford Anglia car who would've surely drove them there ?

Also according to ML Ringo left Butlins the following Saturday so he didn't leave them in the lurch (in 48 hours).
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