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Author Topic: George & Paul's relationship after The Beatles  (Read 4791 times)

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JohnEric

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George & Paul's relationship after The Beatles
« on: October 03, 2012, 05:29:10 PM »

I know there was a post about John and Paul making up prior to John’s death… I have a similar question about George and Paul.

I do know they made their peace in the last few years of George’s life (as George attended Linda McCartney’s memorial, and Paul visited George just weeks before his death). But if you notice in the Anthology video and book, George very seldom references McCartney alone, but goes on and on about John.

I also remember George stating that he would join another group with John and/or Ringo, but never again with Paul.

Did they have personal problems outside the Apple contract, etc.? Was their relationship ever that bad, if so what happened?

Like I said George seemed to almost worship John, but seemed to have little interest in Paul after The Beatles.

Thanks…
John
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RubberSol

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Re: George & Paul's relationship after The Beatles
« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2012, 02:20:18 AM »

Honestly, I think that Paul could be very hard to work with; maybe a bit too controlling  5dp . He also sued the other Beatles to dissolve the group around 1970. They were probably more like close acquaintances around the '00s, and made up before George's death thankfully. I can't blame him for saying that he wouldn't want to be in another group with Paul if I was in his shoes, though.
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Klang

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Re: George & Paul's relationship after The Beatles
« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2012, 01:24:38 PM »


But...y'know...how bad could it be if you end up being part of what many consider to be the greatest band ever?

Just saying, were I in those shoes I wouldn't turn down the opportunity to do it.

Guess I really can't figure out the reasoning.

 :)

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nimrod

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Re: George & Paul's relationship after The Beatles
« Reply #3 on: October 06, 2012, 12:11:55 AM »

It came out on the Let It Be film, George grew very frustrated with Paul..

apparently, sometimes Paul would get to the studio first because he lived round the corner (and he was a workaholic) and put down a lead guitar solo before George even got there, I think Pauls controlling of what George should play really annoyed him.

in the movie he says "I'll play whatever it is you want me to play or I wont play at all, whatever makes you happy..'

I think George had had enough of Paul controlling by then. He'd rather go off and play with Eric Clapton and other friends.




although it has to be said that John was very upset not to be mentioned in Georges book 'I Me Mine'
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DizzymissLizzy909

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Re: George & Paul's relationship after The Beatles
« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2012, 05:41:16 PM »

I can see how George could be bitter about some of the things Paul did while they were still in the Beatles. Don't get me wrong, I love Paul to death, but I know I couldn't work with him.

During some of the interviews in Anthology I felt there was still some tension between George and Paul. I don't know if that's my imagination, but it felt there was still some distance there. I hope they did get closer before George passed away, like Paul has hinted at.

I really do like that Paul often does 'Something' in honor of George during his concerts though. That's a sweet tribute to an old friend.   
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nonemoreblack

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Re: George & Paul's relationship after The Beatles
« Reply #5 on: December 18, 2012, 07:58:14 AM »

I actually think George had a much better relationship with Paul than he did with John. I'm sure he got annoyed with him and felt bitter about how bossy he could be, but Paul was also the only one who George told about his mother's brain tumor. They were like brothers, so I think George felt more comfortable publicly criticizing Paul, whereas with John he never really knew where he stood with him. John was a pretty sh*tty friend to George and constantly put him down, but despite that George hero-worshipped him for a long time.

Also, he mentioned John several times in his book, moreso than anyone else, actually.
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Bobber

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Re: George & Paul's relationship after The Beatles
« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2012, 07:59:07 PM »

It came out on the Let It Be film, George grew very frustrated with Paul..

in the movie he says "I'll play whatever it is you want me to play or I wont play at all, whatever makes you happy..'


Things like these happen in every band that is together for a longer time. I believe through the years, this remark has been blown out of proportion way too much. It's no big deal really.
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nimrod

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Re: George & Paul's relationship after The Beatles
« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2012, 10:35:50 PM »

I actually think George had a much better relationship with Paul than he did with John. I'm sure he got annoyed with him and felt bitter about how bossy he could be, but Paul was also the only one who George told about his mother's brain tumor. They were like brothers, so I think George felt more comfortable publicly criticizing Paul, whereas with John he never really knew where he stood with him. John was a pretty sh*tty friend to George and constantly put him down, but despite that George hero-worshipped him for a long time.

Also, he mentioned John several times in his book, moreso than anyone else, actually.

he mustve thought George was ok as he asked him to play lead guitar on most of the Imagine album

I suppose a lot depends on whose book you read or who's version of events you listen too
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Hello Goodbye

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Re: George & Paul's relationship after The Beatles
« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2012, 02:32:53 AM »

Whew!  You're still there, Kev.  What a relief!!
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nimrod

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Re: George & Paul's relationship after The Beatles
« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2012, 04:43:34 AM »

Whew!  You're still there, Kev.  What a relief!!

haha
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Dcazz

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Re: George & Paul's relationship after The Beatles
« Reply #10 on: December 23, 2012, 02:48:54 AM »

I actually think George had a much better relationship with Paul than he did with John. I'm sure he got annoyed with him and felt bitter about how bossy he could be, but Paul was also the only one who George told about his mother's brain tumor. They were like brothers, so I think George felt more comfortable publicly criticizing Paul, whereas with John he never really knew where he stood with him. John was a pretty sh*tty friend to George and constantly put him down, but despite that George hero-worshipped him for a long time.

Also, he mentioned John several times in his book, moreso than anyone else, actually.
In one of my books which I remember a story that in the early 70's, I think when George was photo'd with Gerald Ford he met up with John and was so mad at him he slapped him across the face knocking off his glasses. John was incensed but walked away. As I remember the story this left quite a rift that lasted till his death. I wish I could find the book.
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Klang

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Re: George & Paul's relationship after The Beatles
« Reply #11 on: December 23, 2012, 12:29:54 PM »


The more I learn, the less I want to know.

 :-[

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nimrod

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Re: George & Paul's relationship after The Beatles
« Reply #12 on: December 23, 2012, 12:53:41 PM »

The more I learn, the less I want to know.

 :-[



Yes !!

They were just 4 happy moptops who became brilliant artists, we love their music, why do we need to know more ? ;)
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Klang

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Re: George & Paul's relationship after The Beatles
« Reply #13 on: December 24, 2012, 11:35:16 AM »


I guess it's a double-edged thing. Kind of like gawking at a train wreck. It's an awful thing, but one can't take their eyes off of it.

In the end I suppose I want to know all their is to know. It's just painful sometimes.

 :-\

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nonemoreblack

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Re: George & Paul's relationship after The Beatles
« Reply #14 on: January 04, 2013, 05:41:54 PM »

In one of my books which I remember a story that in the early 70's, I think when George was photo'd with Gerald Ford he met up with John and was so mad at him he slapped him across the face knocking off his glasses. John was incensed but walked away. As I remember the story this left quite a rift that lasted till his death. I wish I could find the book.

Yeah, that was May Pang's book. From what I understand, John had promised to help George out with his tour (when he was getting all those bad reviews) by appearing at his Madison Square Garden show but changed his mind and wasn't going to sign the legal papers for The Beatles to break up. That was the final straw for George after years of being used by him (usually against Paul), and he shouted something to the effect of, "I always did everything you asked me to, but when have you ever been there for me?!" John didn't leave though. George smacked his sunglasses away because he wanted him to look him in the face, and John sat there and listened because he saw George was in pain, and he knew what that felt like.

There was another fight they had previously, which I think is the real reason George walked out of the Let it Be sessions. There's recordings of the sessions and his "argument" with Paul. In context it really isn't much of an argument at all. They made a big effort to cover up the recording of the fight between John and George, so I imagine it was pretty serious. Something that had been building for a long time, since the Hamburg days. It's all a bit weird, and yes you have to take these things with a grain of salt. However, there's enough consistency between different sources to be able to connect the dots. I don't like finding out about this stuff either, but at the same time I feel bad that Paul often has to take the blame when there's more to the story and frustrated when Yoko tries to make out that John was the one who cared about George the most.

My guess is it was something like this: George's relationship with Paul = publicly not good, privately very good
                                                    George's relationship with John = publicly good, privately not so good
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nimrod

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Re: George & Paul's relationship after The Beatles
« Reply #15 on: January 04, 2013, 11:15:35 PM »

Yeah, that was May Pang's book. From what I understand, John had promised to help George out with his tour (when he was getting all those bad reviews) by appearing at his Madison Square Garden show but changed his mind and wasn't going to sign the legal papers for The Beatles to break up. That was the final straw for George after years of being used by him (usually against Paul), and he shouted something to the effect of, "I always did everything you asked me to, but when have you ever been there for me?!" John didn't leave though. George smacked his sunglasses away because he wanted him to look him in the face, and John sat there and listened because he saw George was in pain, and he knew what that felt like.

There was another fight they had previously, which I think is the real reason George walked out of the Let it Be sessions. There's recordings of the sessions and his "argument" with Paul. In context it really isn't much of an argument at all. They made a big effort to cover up the recording of the fight between John and George, so I imagine it was pretty serious. Something that had been building for a long time, since the Hamburg days. It's all a bit weird, and yes you have to take these things with a grain of salt. However, there's enough consistency between different sources to be able to connect the dots. I don't like finding out about this stuff either, but at the same time I feel bad that Paul often has to take the blame when there's more to the story and frustrated when Yoko tries to make out that John was the one who cared about George the most.

My guess is it was something like this: George's relationship with Paul = publicly not good, privately very good
                                                    George's relationship with John = publicly good, privately not so good

Doesnt make any sense, you dont ask someone you dont like to play lead guitar on your Imagine album and in the process spend days/weeks at your house in the countryside....John couldve had any lead guitarist on that album............and why would George even want John to help him out at Madison Square if he couldnt stand the sight of him ?
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nonemoreblack

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Re: George & Paul's relationship after The Beatles
« Reply #16 on: January 05, 2013, 12:06:52 AM »

It's not that they hated each other. You can tell by the way George talked about John after he died how much he loved him, and I'm sure John loved George too, but they did have some issues to work through. It's sad that John died before that was able to happen as I think they all would've become friends again eventually.

I don't want to pretend I know what happened or anything like that. I just find the whole Paul/George/John dynamic very interesting.
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zipp

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Re: George & Paul's relationship after The Beatles
« Reply #17 on: January 05, 2013, 05:19:00 PM »

A couple more things to be considered.

I think George was pleased once the Beatles ended because it gave him freedom with a lot less pressure. He was the one who once said being a Beatle was like having a toothache.

He probably knew that John was the main driving force behind the eventual separation even if Paul made the actual announcement. So that would explain his solidarity with John immedaitely after the break-up.

But when George wanted John to help him with the Bangladesh concert and John refused to appear without Yoko, things began to change. And later John was the one who didn't want to sign the papers ending the Beatles financial links, as has already been pointed out. So it kind of seemed that John was now the one taking away his freedom!

So in the end I don't think he really wanted to have much to do with either John or Paul. He really seems to be forcing himself in the Anthology project. You can see this when they have the little jam session and Paul is getting over enthusiastic. I also believe he was behind the decision not to go ahead with a Threetle version of Now and Then. Remember, George was the one who had said the Beatles could never get together again as long as John was dead.
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nonemoreblack

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Re: George & Paul's relationship after The Beatles
« Reply #18 on: January 09, 2013, 11:27:50 PM »

That's a great point, actually! George is a difficult guy to figure out. On the one hand, he really loved The Beatles and Paul and John (and of course Ringo), but at the same time he seemed the most traumatized by the whole thing. I forgot about the effect Yoko had on his relationship with John as well.

Here's an example of what I was talking about earlier. It's part of a transcript of the tapes of the Let It Be/Get Back sessions:

January 8th, 1969: George plays ‘I Me Mine’ to John for the first time. John snacks on food, opens Paul’s mail, and doesn’t pay much attention.
JOHN: Is that the end of it?

GEORGE: Yeah. It’s only that long—

JOHN: We can use it for a commercial. [laughs] So uh, yeah. It’s fine. And what do we do about that?

GEORGE: Um, well, it’s just a bit—

JOHN: It sounds so hard to do.

GEORGE: You see— No, it’s… no.

JOHN: I mean, for you.

GEORGE: No.

JOHN: [falsetto] I me mine… You know, all that singing.

The audio: http://amoralto.tumblr.com/post/39803804848/january-8th-1969-george-plays-i-me-mine-to

It's no wonder the poor guy felt so insecure.
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Dcazz

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Re: George & Paul's relationship after The Beatles
« Reply #19 on: January 16, 2013, 02:17:12 PM »

Yeah, that was May Pang's book. From what I understand, John had promised to help George out with his tour (when he was getting all those bad reviews) by appearing at his Madison Square Garden show but changed his mind and wasn't going to sign the legal papers for The Beatles to break up. That was the final straw for George after years of being used by him (usually against Paul), and he shouted something to the effect of, "I always did everything you asked me to, but when have you ever been there for me?!" John didn't leave though. George smacked his sunglasses away because he wanted him to look him in the face, and John sat there and listened because he saw George was in pain, and he knew what that felt like.

There was another fight they had previously, which I think is the real reason George walked out of the Let it Be sessions. There's recordings of the sessions and his "argument" with Paul. In context it really isn't much of an argument at all. They made a big effort to cover up the recording of the fight between John and George, so I imagine it was pretty serious. Something that had been building for a long time, since the Hamburg days. It's all a bit weird, and yes you have to take these things with a grain of salt. However, there's enough consistency between different sources to be able to connect the dots. I don't like finding out about this stuff either, but at the same time I feel bad that Paul often has to take the blame when there's more to the story and frustrated when Yoko tries to make out that John was the one who cared about George the most.

My guess is it was something like this: George's relationship with Paul = publicly not good, privately very good
                                                    George's relationship with John = publicly good, privately not so good
That's right. It's been years since I read the book and thank you for the memory jog and clarification. George must have been in a tough place back then. The reality is they're still people and have the same issues as everyone else.
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