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Author Topic: Microscope: Imagine  (Read 3624 times)

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Re: Microscope: Imagine
« Reply #40 on: March 05, 2013, 01:50:03 AM »

Imagine

Conversations used to come to a halt when this song came on the radio in late 1971.  The war in Viet Nam had escalated and spilled over into Cambodia and Laos.  Friday television news programs ended with an honor roll for the dead and that segment lengthened every week.

Imagine was an anthem; a beautiful song written by John which rightly took its place amongst other notable anti-war songs.
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Re: Microscope: Imagine
« Reply #41 on: March 05, 2013, 01:59:49 AM »

Todd, have another listen to Imagine.  Listen to what happens 15 seconds into the song.
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tkitna

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Re: Microscope: Imagine
« Reply #42 on: March 05, 2013, 02:07:06 AM »

Todd, have another listen to Imagine.  Listen to what happens 15 seconds into the song.

I'm at work right now, but what are you referring too?

It was George on the guitar. Hmmm. Never bothered to look that up before. Was surprised to see Jim Keltner and Jim Gordon playing the drums on some tracks. For some reason, I thought Alan White played on all of it. Cool stuff.

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Re: Microscope: Imagine
« Reply #43 on: March 05, 2013, 02:09:38 AM »

When you're at home, then.  I'll let you find out for yourself.
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tkitna

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Re: Microscope: Imagine
« Reply #44 on: March 06, 2013, 10:36:55 PM »

When you're at home, then.  I'll let you find out for yourself.


Clue me in Barry. What am I listening for? All I hear is John saying the words that turns me off in the first place.

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Re: Microscope: Imagine
« Reply #45 on: March 08, 2013, 03:55:23 AM »

I think I agree with tkitna on every aspect of his review. We definatly agree on Imagine. I saw a video documentary years ago that showed George playing slide on this album so I'd say it was him.

Having revisited both The Plastic Ono band and Imagine albums recently I get the feeling that they fit into a similar catagory (though totally different in content) as Rubber Soul and Revolver as being extensions of the same album only obviously these two are from Johns solo career. Similar themes are found in both records only with Imagine Johns outlook seems to have changed and at more times is looking outward and forward. I enjoyed most of this record and I agree with someone that it probably is John's best solo album.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2013, 01:20:58 PM by Dcazz »
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Re: Microscope: Imagine
« Reply #46 on: March 08, 2013, 04:04:15 AM »

Clue me in Barry. What am I listening for? All I hear is John saying the words that turns me off in the first place.



Todd, when I listened to Imagine on the LP for the first time, I thought I mistakingly bought a MONO album.  Fifteen seconds into the song, it changed to full stereo.
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Re: Microscope: Imagine
« Reply #47 on: March 08, 2013, 04:28:55 PM »



I think this is the right one!
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tkitna

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Re: Microscope: Imagine
« Reply #48 on: March 09, 2013, 01:30:38 AM »

Todd, when I listened to Imagine on the LP for the first time, I thought I mistakingly bought a MONO album.  Fifteen seconds into the song, it changed to full stereo.

I didnt pick that up, but I wasnt listening for it either. Now i'm intrigued. I only have cd versions of the album and song though so it could be different. Thanks for pointing that out.

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Re: Microscope: Imagine
« Reply #49 on: March 11, 2013, 03:47:14 AM »

The song "Imagine" is usually misunderstood by religious people. When John proposes us to imagine that there's no heaven or hell he's not saying that they don't exist (beyond his own belief), he's saying that we shouldn't be moved by an after-death prize or punishment, we should be good to our brothers because that's good for itself, and good actions bring a prize on their own. When John imagines no religion he's talking about the source of fear and war, not about its message, which is actually the same message he's preaching in this song. John is just telling us to live for today because we should try to make heaven on earth, even though that's not possible, in part because of that fake religious people that do the opposite of what religion says. In fact, the message of "Imagine" is much more Christian than what many self-called Christians preach with their acts.

"Now the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace." (James 3:18)
« Last Edit: March 11, 2013, 03:52:18 AM by Hombre_de_ningun_lugar »
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tkitna

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Re: Microscope: Imagine
« Reply #50 on: March 11, 2013, 05:11:50 AM »

he's saying that we shouldn't be moved by an after-death prize or punishment,

I feel thats wrong and thats all the more reason why we shouldnt imagine that there's no heaven or hell. I know what point John was trying to make, but I feel the song could have worked just as easily if people imagined and believed in them also. We should be moved by our existence after life. The price is too big not to. Thats as far as i'll go and again, its nothing more then my opinion and beliefs.

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Re: Microscope: Imagine
« Reply #51 on: March 11, 2013, 12:44:17 PM »

I feel thats wrong and thats all the more reason why we shouldnt imagine that there's no heaven or hell. I know what point John was trying to make, but I feel the song could have worked just as easily if people imagined and believed in them also. We should be moved by our existence after life. The price is too big not to. Thats as far as i'll go and again, its nothing more then my opinion and beliefs.

I respect your opinion and share your belief. However, "imagine" is not the same than "believe", it's just a supposition. If we don't care about trying to make a better world in this life because there's a heaven waiting for us, then we're not really acting as true believers, because the fruits of salvation should be manifested in this life too. I do believe and know that there's a heaven and a hell, but I love Jesus's message so much that I would act the same way if that prize and that punishment would not exist. What I really mean (and I think John meant) is that we shouldn't be moved by fear, we should be moved by love, as good actions carry their own prize and sins carry their own punishment. We start living heaven or hell here, in this life. So I see heaven and hell more as a consequence than as a reason of the way I act.

"Love has been perfected among us in this: that we may have boldness in the day of judgment; because as He is, so are we in this world. There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment. But he who fears has not been made perfect in love. We love Him because He first loved us." (1 John 4:17-19)
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Re: Microscope: Imagine
« Reply #52 on: March 11, 2013, 06:21:27 PM »

Not a religious person at all, but I think Hombre expressed his thoughts very well and I agree with his interpretation of the song, especially this:

The song "Imagine" is usually misunderstood by religious people. When John proposes us to imagine that there's no heaven or hell he's not saying that they don't exist (beyond his own belief), he's saying that we shouldn't be moved by an after-death prize or punishment, we should be good to our brothers because that's good for itself, and good actions bring a prize on their own. When John imagines no religion he's talking about the source of fear and war, not about its message, which is actually the same message he's preaching in this song.

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Re: Microscope: Imagine
« Reply #53 on: March 15, 2013, 05:25:53 PM »

The song "Imagine" is usually misunderstood by religious people. When John proposes us to imagine that there's no heaven or hell he's not saying that they don't exist (beyond his own belief), he's saying that we shouldn't be moved by an after-death prize or punishment, we should be good to our brothers because that's good for itself, and good actions bring a prize on their own. When John imagines no religion he's talking about the source of fear and war, not about its message, which is actually the same message he's preaching in this song. John is just telling us to live for today because we should try to make heaven on earth, even though that's not possible, in part because of that fake religious people that do the opposite of what religion says. In fact, the message of "Imagine" is much more Christian than what many self-called Christians preach with their acts.

"Now the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace." (James 3:18)

Really? Surely what you meant to say was that "what I think John meant was...."
because surely it's just as likely that he meant what he said - that a world without religion may be a better place.
Now I'm not saying my interpretation is any more valid than yours. It just amazes me when folk manage to turn wishful thinking into fact, or pass off opinion as a truth.
There must be some Lennon quotes out there to give us some hint as to what was in his head at the time.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2013, 05:28:52 PM by Kevin »
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Hombre_de_ningun_lugar

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Re: Microscope: Imagine
« Reply #54 on: March 15, 2013, 07:08:29 PM »

Really? Surely what you meant to say was that "what I think John meant was...."
because surely it's just as likely that he meant what he said - that a world without religion may be a better place.
Now I'm not saying my interpretation is any more valid than yours. It just amazes me when folk manage to turn wishful thinking into fact, or pass off opinion as a truth.
There must be some Lennon quotes out there to give us some hint as to what was in his head at the time.

Actually that's my interpretation of the song. It really doesn't matter what John meant. But I guess that John thought that the world would be better without religion as a source of fear and war, not as a source of a message of love. In fact, the world dreamed by John in the song looks a lot like the Sermon of the Mount preached by Jesus Christ: don't worry about tomorrow ("living for today"); give a hand to whom needs it ("sharing all the world"); love the enemies ("living life in peace").
« Last Edit: March 15, 2013, 07:13:35 PM by Hombre_de_ningun_lugar »
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Re: Microscope: Imagine
« Reply #55 on: March 15, 2013, 07:12:12 PM »

Actually that's my interpretation of the song.

That's all I wanted to hear. Thank you.
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Hombre_de_ningun_lugar

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Re: Microscope: Imagine
« Reply #56 on: March 15, 2013, 07:14:17 PM »

That's all I wanted to hear. Thank you.

You're welcome. Any interpretation is valid anyway.
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Re: Microscope: Imagine
« Reply #57 on: March 15, 2013, 07:32:28 PM »

You're welcome. Any interpretation is valid anyway.

Even Charles Manson's?
« Last Edit: March 15, 2013, 07:37:48 PM by Kevin »
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Hombre_de_ningun_lugar

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Re: Microscope: Imagine
« Reply #58 on: March 15, 2013, 11:19:46 PM »

Even Charles Manson's?

At least it was valid for himself, though surely I don't agree with him, as you may not agree with me or I would not agree with you.

Anyway, I think my interpretation is still quite straight, because the problem of religion is not the teachings but the religious people who do the opposite of what they supposedly believe. Even Jesus talk about those pharisees who acted that way. John is not preaching something new actually, but I like the message.
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