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Author Topic: Imagine The Beatles...  (Read 250 times)

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nimrod

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Imagine The Beatles...
« on: May 27, 2014, 01:06:48 PM »

without Paul, Paul being replaced by a Bass player who can sing well but doesn't write songs, what would they be like ?
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Moogmodule

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Re: Imagine The Beatles...
« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2014, 05:20:44 AM »

Ok. I'll give it a go

You'd have to think that, without Paul as collaboration/competition John's writing wouldn't have developed as quickly or been as prolific. They'd have still been the hot post -Hamburg performers but when it came time to make the transition from concert group to recording they might have had less quantity and quality to draw from.

I doubt at that stage the George would have been a Paul substitute as a collaborator. Maybe a bit later.

This being the case the group might have been more susceptible to having their recording repertoire managed by George Martin.  Maybe some covers as singles.

Perhaps they would have been like the Stones. Reliant mostly on covers for early albums (albeit with some John contributions from the start) and then moved more to originals as George developed. George might have developed a bit quicker with only one other songwriter in the group rather than the intimidating glass ceiling of Lennon and McCartney.

Of course without Paul's work ethic and creativity there'd have been no Sgt Pepper and probably less work overall.

I think they'd could still have been a popular and successful group. But much amongst the pack rather than leading it. And remembered more for Lennons singing and the energy of the band than for a huge repertoire of modern classics. We might now more be talking about the underestimated quality of John's writing , overshadowed by the bands original covers of classic pop and rock and roll.



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tkitna

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Re: Imagine The Beatles...
« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2014, 08:10:17 AM »

They would be like the Plastic Ono Band with Klaus Voorman.

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Re: Imagine The Beatles...
« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2014, 11:05:33 PM »

Well, that's the long and short of it.   ;D
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nimrod

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Re: Imagine The Beatles...
« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2014, 11:27:34 PM »

They would be like the Plastic Ono Band with Klaus Voorman.

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well, not really, for one thing, Klaus doesn't sing
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oldbrownshoe

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Re: Imagine The Beatles...
« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2014, 12:13:16 AM »

Not the most popular opinion in these parts but the most crucial question is 'when' all this might have happened.

The personnel, despite all the acres of print on Pete Best, is almost irrelevant, though probably not to him.

If John, Paul, George and Ringo had all been born ten years later, they'd have no more chance of being the greatest ever pop group (which they are) than all the various post-60s groups have had (and they're not!). 

The greatest pop group could only have happened in the greatest era for pop music.....the 60s.

10 years before and, in Britain at least, they simply wouldn't have existed.
10 years after, and they'd have been The Boomtown Rats.
Someone else born in the early 40s would have been The Beatles.....probably The Stones.
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nimrod

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Re: Imagine The Beatles...
« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2014, 03:16:26 AM »

Someone else born in the early 40s would have been The Beatles.....probably The Stones.

I don't think the Stones, they always had a different fan base to the fabs, it was one or 'tuther....

For me, The Kinks were strong contenders, I see the Kinks as a sort of Beatles without Paul, plenty of hits & thought provoking songs capturing the essence of everyday lifes, Shangri La, Sunny Afternoon, Waterloo Sunset, Autumn Almanac

But the one I really thought had the mega talent of a John Lennon was Syd Barrett, he could write a 3 chord hit seemingly at the drop of a hat, he was the reason had a record contract AND he could write surrealism as per Lennon, Astronome Domine, The Gnome, Scarecrow, Lucifer Sam, brilliantly talented man..

But then again there was Marc Bolan.
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Moogmodule

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Re: Imagine The Beatles...
« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2014, 03:54:23 AM »

I don't think the Stones, they always had a different fan base to the fabs, it was one or 'tuther....

For me, The Kinks were strong contenders, I see the Kinks as a sort of Beatles without Paul, plenty of hits & thought provoking songs capturing the essence of everyday lifes, Shangri La, Sunny Afternoon, Waterloo Sunset, Autumn Almanac

But the one I really thought had the mega talent of a John Lennon was Syd Barrett, he could write a 3 chord hit seemingly at the drop of a hat, he was the reason had a record contract AND he could write surrealism as per Lennon, Astronome Domine, The Gnome, Scarecrow, Lucifer Sam, brilliantly talented man..

But then again there was Marc Bolan.

I think you're criminally disregarding Herman's Hermits in all this Nim.
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nimrod

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Re: Imagine The Beatles...
« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2014, 04:22:27 AM »

I think you're criminally disregarding Herman's Hermits in all this Nim.

I don't know if you've seen the documentary about them but he admits that whilst they were perfect for early/mid 60's, when things started to change in 67 they didn't have the wherewithal to keep up , in other words they didn't or couldn't change, so they became destined to the cabaret circuit, like The Hollies/Searchers/Tremeloes etc etc
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Casbah

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Re: Imagine The Beatles...
« Reply #9 on: May 29, 2014, 06:35:54 AM »

Im going to assume this is all happening right from the get go, so I'd say everything, the growing hype and hysteria would've been the same right up to 1963.
 But what happens next? Without Paul, SLY and IWTHYH don't get written. No America. No Beatlemania.
Or maybe they keep their rougher image and belt out rockers and win that way? Lots of bands already doing that but the Beatles were very good at it, so maybe.
I think George and John would probably collaborate musically on some things with John writing the lyrics.

Not sure if I am reading too much into this but does Paul still have creative influence or is he merely the bass player?
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Moogmodule

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Re: Imagine The Beatles...
« Reply #10 on: May 29, 2014, 08:43:45 AM »

Im going to assume this is all happening right from the get go, so I'd say everything, the growing hype and hysteria would've been the same right up to 1963.
 But what happens next? Without Paul, SLY and IWTHYH don't get written. No America. No Beatlemania.


That's right. And so maybe what was the British Invasion became a niche college movement in the US. More of a stealth takeover. 
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Moogmodule

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Re: Imagine The Beatles...
« Reply #11 on: May 29, 2014, 09:07:24 AM »


If John, Paul, George and Ringo had all been born ten years later, they'd have no more chance of being the greatest ever pop group (which they are) than all the various post-60s groups have had (and they're not!). 

The greatest pop group could only have happened in the greatest era  for pop music....the 60s


I think that's pretty accurate. There was a convergence of factors that created the breeding ground for the youth movement which the Beatles led. The Lewisohn book for instance underlines how important things like ending compulsory national service were in the UK for creating the fertile environment for rock bands to develop and stay together. Other things like increasing middle class wealth all played a part. Even the assassination of JFK could be seen as creating a mood in the US that was looking for something joyful and life affirming. The Beatles filled that role beautifully.
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Beatlemaniac64

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Imagine The Beatles...
« Reply #12 on: July 03, 2014, 03:59:16 AM »

Another point is that Paul also added a lot to the Beatles besides musically. He helped with their image, and with winning girls over. The moment the Beatles first played on the Ed Sullivan Show, the camera was on Paul.  I just feel like he kind of signifies their look and their way about them. He's the glue that helped hold the band together. The Beatles would've been much different without him, and maybe would have attracted a bit of a different audience. So hard to tell.
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