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Author Topic: Did John get in trouble?  (Read 439 times)

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Catro

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Did John get in trouble?
« on: June 05, 2014, 11:02:47 AM »

I'm just watching Elvis Costello on Sky Arts, and he is telling the story of how his dad performed on the Royal Command Performance on the same bill as The Beatles.
His interviewer said that John got into trouble with his "rattle you jewellery" comments, and Elvis agreed.
This is the first time I've ever heard about John getting into trouble with this. I always thought it accepted as part of their famous "scouse humour"!
Has anyone else ever heard this?
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Kangaroo Kev

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Re: Did John get in trouble?
« Reply #1 on: June 05, 2014, 12:39:50 PM »

I'm just watching Elvis Costello on Sky Arts, and he is telling the story of how his dad performed on the Royal Command Performance on the same bill as The Beatles.
His interviewer said that John got into trouble with his "rattle you jewellery" comments, and Elvis agreed.
This is the first time I've ever heard about John getting into trouble with this. I always thought it accepted as part of their famous "scouse humour"!
Has anyone else ever heard this?

He probably did, but do you know what, I bet he didn't give a sh*t.
John would've hated doing that gig for all the dignitaries and upper class snobs in the audience, that's one thing I liked about him, he didn't kow tow to the establishment, I don't think he would have ever accepted a knighthood
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Dcazz

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Re: Did John get in trouble?
« Reply #2 on: June 05, 2014, 04:39:59 PM »

You can almost see Brian Epstein with his elbows crossed and his hand over his face thinking about how he's going to handle this one! Lol!
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oldbrownshoe

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Re: Did John get in trouble?
« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2014, 05:03:40 PM »

The part of the establishment which had the highest snob count in the early/mid-60s (and even today) was probably the art world, and Lennon wasn't exactly backward in coming forward there.

Ditto The Stones.
See the Guinness family, Tara Browne ('A Day In The Life'), Miles, Jane Asher, Robert Fraser etc. etc.

I'm sure Lennon's initial take on Brian Epstein and George Martin could have been confrontational and, while not exactly snobs, they were definitely posh (more posh than Ringo!), and almost certainly more posh than 90% of that Royal Command audience.

My mum appeared in the Royal Command many, many, many years before The Beatles and her recollection is that most of the audience where family members of the performers (two tickets per performer), and it would have been the same in 1963, and they all would have 'dressed up' for the night. 

I don't think John was being deliberately spiteful because, mercifully, in 1963, the casual antagonism we take for granted today, and not too many years after 1963, was not so prevalent or acceptable. 
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Moogmodule

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Re: Did John get in trouble?
« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2014, 09:06:09 PM »

I can't recall reading anything that John got into trouble for his comment. Rather it just came across as cheeky in a witty way. He'd apparently told Brian that he'd just tell them to "rattle their f@&#ing jewellery" before the concert so Brian was probably just relieved John turned it into a harmless one liner.
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Kangaroo Kev

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Re: Did John get in trouble?
« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2014, 10:17:52 PM »

I can't recall reading anything that John got into trouble for his comment. Rather it just came across as cheeky in a witty way. He'd apparently told Brian that he'd just tell them to "rattle their f@&#ing jewellery" before the concert so Brian was probably just relieved John turned it into a harmless one liner.

It kinda makes you wonder who he was supposably in trouble with ? surely not the fawning Brian, John would've just told him to .......
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Moogmodule

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Re: Did John get in trouble?
« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2014, 10:18:25 PM »

He probably did, but do you know what, I bet he didn't give a sh*t.
John would've hated doing that gig for all the dignitaries and upper class snobs in the audience, that's one thing I liked about him, he didn't kow tow to the establishment, I don't think he would have ever accepted a knighthood

I wonder a bit about that at the time. Lennon was definitely anti establishment but he was also pretty ambitious. He seemed happy to play the game at that stage of their careers.  And I recall interviews of him at the time he got the MBE was that he was hardly sounding objecting. Although admittedly that could have been talking points given by Brian.

A lot of his criticism of the sort of stuff the Beatles did during Beatlemania seemed to come later when he had his ultra rebel thing going on.  If there's records of what he said at the time of these events it might give more if a clue to his real state of mind about stuff like the Royal performance. 
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Kangaroo Kev

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Re: Did John get in trouble?
« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2014, 10:46:17 PM »

I wonder a bit about that at the time. Lennon was definitely anti establishment but he was also pretty ambitious. He seemed happy to play the game at that stage of their careers.  And I recall interviews of him at the time he got the MBE was that he was hardly sounding objecting. Although admittedly that could have been talking points given by Brian.

A lot of his criticism of the sort of stuff the Beatles did during Beatlemania seemed to come later when he had his ultra rebel thing going on.  If there's records of what he said at the time of these events it might give more if a clue to his real state of mind about stuff like the Royal performance.

Yes he definitely was happy to play the game early on and recognised that the Royal Command thingy was very important due to the size of the TV audience, but he has said in later interviews quite a few times how much he hated it all...............selling out.

I suppose it must have been quite hard for him, ditching his John The Rocker image which he was at heart and suddenly wearing suits, becoming almost a b-- --  (oops nearly said boy band  ha2ha)  and bowing to dignitaries but as you say he was also ambitious
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Hello Goodbye

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Re: Did John get in trouble?
« Reply #8 on: June 06, 2014, 03:00:01 AM »

I suppose it must have been quite hard for him, ditching his John The Rocker image which he was at heart and suddenly wearing suits, becoming almost a b-- --  (oops nearly said boy band  ha2ha)  and bowing to dignitaries but as you say he was also ambitious


Cheeky.   ;)















 :)








 :(
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oldbrownshoe

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Re: Did John get in trouble?
« Reply #9 on: June 06, 2014, 06:24:10 AM »

Eppy's influence on the group can never be overstated.

He realised that the group he saw at The Cavern would not be an easy sell (make that 'it would be an impossible sell') to the big-wigs in London, and he was right. Leather gear = no record sales.
THE BEATLES had to fit into the market, it was never going to be a case of the record industry of 1962 going out of its way to accommodate The Beatles.

The fat guys with cigars in Denmark Street (think Larry Parnes) wanted ready-made, easy-on-the-eye, artists not mavericks, which is why the well-groomed Cliff sold records in the pre-Fabs' era while the leather-clad Vince Taylor didn't.

Of course, this negative turned out to be a positive as The Beatles had loads to rebel against when they did break through. Timing is everything, in The Beatles' case it's the most important ingredient, and no other act before or since had the same luck or luxury.
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Moogmodule

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Re: Did John get in trouble?
« Reply #10 on: June 06, 2014, 11:06:29 AM »

Eppy's influence on the group can never be overstated.

He realised that the group he saw at The Cavern would not be an easy sell (make that 'it would be an impossible sell') to the big-wigs in London, and he was right. Leather gear = no record sales.
THE BEATLES had to fit into the market, it was never going to be a case of the record industry of 1962 going out of its way to accommodate The Beatles.

The fat guys with cigars in Denmark Street (think Larry Parnes) wanted ready-made, easy-on-the-eye, artists not mavericks, which is why the well-groomed Cliff sold records in the pre-Fabs' era while the leather-clad Vince Taylor didn't.

Of course, this negative turned out to be a positive as The Beatles had loads to rebel against when they did break through. Timing is everything, in The Beatles' case it's the most important ingredient, and no other act before or since had the same luck or luxury.

One of the things the Lewisohn book really drives home is the casual contempt Londoners had for "The North". I suppose it's hard for us in other countries and different eras to understand but it really seems that the northern parts of England at the time were really looked down on. George Martin himself was quoted as wondering what good musically could come from Liverpool.
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Kevin

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Re: Did John get in trouble?
« Reply #11 on: June 07, 2014, 12:03:42 AM »

He probably did, but do you know what, I bet he didn't give a sh*t.
John would've hated doing that gig for all the dignitaries and upper class snobs in the audience, that's one thing I liked about him, he didn't kow tow to the establishment, I don't think he would have ever accepted a knighthood
Come come. John spent 4 years "kowtowing to the establishment" . Playing the royal variety, accepting his awards for his books, bowing to the queen, shaking hands with prime ministers, accepting his mbe, driving a rolls Royce, living in a nice big millionaires mansion. The Beatles WERE the establishment.
If we believe everything John said after he fact then he hated everybody. And his excuse that he wasn't allowed to say or do anything...I mean c'mon..what's his name from one direction is showing more balls than John did in beatlemania.
They said all along that what they wanted was fame and money, and like most else would they grabbed it with both hands.
John didn't give a sh*t? The guy who beat the crap out of someone for insinuating he was gay.  The guy who didn't talk to george for god knows how many years because he didn't get a mention in his bloody book? The guy who put his face in his hands and wept over the jesus thing.  The guy who freaked because someone called him fat? The guy who vomited before going on stage? Sorry. It seems John gave one hell of a sh*t
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Kangaroo Kev

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Re: Did John get in trouble?
« Reply #12 on: June 07, 2014, 12:35:35 AM »

One of the things the Lewisohn book really drives home is the casual contempt Londoners had for "The North". I suppose it's hard for us in other countries and different eras to understand but it really seems that the northern parts of England at the time were really looked down on. George Martin himself was quoted as wondering what good musically could come from Liverpool.

Yes your not wrong there moog, neither is ML, growing up as I did in Manchester there was always the north/south divide, people 'up north' were working class scum with no manners - cannon fodder, good at football but not much else (besides working in factories and down mines)
it still exists to a lesser degree

Its amazing, and testament to how good they were that the fabs overcame this
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Moogmodule

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Re: Did John get in trouble?
« Reply #13 on: June 07, 2014, 01:21:16 AM »

Yes your not wrong there moog, neither is ML, growing up as I did in Manchester there was always the north/south divide, people 'up north' were working class scum with no manners - cannon fodder, good at football but not much else (besides working in factories and down mines)
it still exists to a lesser degree

Its amazing, and testament to how good they were that the fabs overcame this

As a New South Welshmen it's now I'd be expected to make a joke about Queenslanders. 

It shows how elevated I am as a human being that I'll resist  ;D
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Kangaroo Kev

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Re: Did John get in trouble?
« Reply #14 on: June 07, 2014, 01:23:30 AM »

As a New South Welshmen it's now I'd be expected to make a joke about Queenslanders. 

It shows how elevated I am as a human being that I'll resist  ;D

Im glad you are an elevated human being moog, even though it must be pretty cold down there now in the rust belt  ha2ha
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Moogmodule

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Re: Did John get in trouble?
« Reply #15 on: June 07, 2014, 08:22:14 AM »

Come come. John spent 4 years "kowtowing to the establishment" . Playing the royal variety, accepting his awards for his books, bowing to the queen, shaking hands with prime ministers, accepting his mbe, driving a rolls Royce, living in a nice big millionaires mansion. The Beatles WERE the establishment.
If we believe everything John said after he fact then he hated everybody. And his excuse that he wasn't allowed to say or do anything...I mean c'mon..what's his name from one direction is showing more balls than John did in beatlemania.
They said all along that what they wanted was fame and money, and like most else would they grabbed it with both hands.
John didn't give a sh*t? The guy who beat the crap out of someone for insinuating he was gay.  The guy who didn't talk to george for god knows how many years because he didn't get a mention in his bloody book? The guy who put his face in his hands and wept over the jesus thing.  The guy who freaked because someone called him fat? The guy who vomited before going on stage? Sorry. It seems John gave one hell of a sh*t

I think there was a lot of Yoko-era revisionism by John. Like Yoko had made him feel embarrassed about his earlier career or something.

One thing that sticks out in clips of the early Beatles on various tv shows like Morecambe and Wise is how much John genuinely seems to be enjoying himself.




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oldbrownshoe

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Re: Did John get in trouble?
« Reply #16 on: June 07, 2014, 09:17:40 AM »

I think you're right, in the early days of Beatlemania John was having a blast.

Cynthia once said that she had the best years of John, and though that might have seemed a slightly barbed comment aimed at Yoko, I rather think she was right.

About the first time he looked shell-shocked or bitter was over the 'Jesus' comment on the last tour. I think that whole experience was one of the factors which informed his attitude for the rest of the decade, towards the press as much as anyone else.
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Moogmodule

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Re: Did John get in trouble?
« Reply #17 on: June 07, 2014, 09:59:28 AM »

I think you're right, in the early days of Beatlemania John was having a blast.

Cynthia once said that she had the best years of John, and though that might have seemed a slightly barbed comment aimed at Yoko, I rather think she was right.

About the first time he looked shell-shocked or bitter was over the 'Jesus' comment on the last tour. I think that whole experience was one of the factors which informed his attitude for the rest of the decade, towards the press as much as anyone else.

Not wanting to turn this into an anti-Yoko session but there's a story from Johns lost weekend separation from Yoko, which was actually an active and creative time for John, that Mick Jagger said that the old John was back.  He meant it in a good way.
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In My Life

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Re: Did John get in trouble?
« Reply #18 on: June 07, 2014, 04:01:09 PM »

I think there was a lot of Yoko-era revisionism by John. Like Yoko had made him feel embarrassed about his earlier career or something.

I've always thought that too.
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Re: Did John get in trouble?
« Reply #19 on: June 07, 2014, 09:30:21 PM »

Not wanting to turn this into an anti-Yoko session but there's a story from Johns lost weekend separation from Yoko, which was actually an active and creative time for John, that Mick Jagger said that the old John was back.  He meant it in a good way.


Yes, I can see it happening just that way, Moog.

We have a great anti-Yoko thread right here:  Its Yoko's fault--a fun game!

Feel free to join in!    ;D
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