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Author Topic: What do YOU think?  (Read 7384 times)

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Mairi

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Re: What do YOU think?
« Reply #40 on: January 12, 2005, 05:20:01 PM »

Quote
Why do Paul's fans hate any attempt to have a serious discussion about him, that touches any criticism?

What about Lennon fans? Neither Paul nor John had an untarnished record, no siree, but Lennon revisonists always want to paint over the facts and turn John into some kind of saint, and make Paul the bad guy. John's a great guy, but you can't say he was better than Paul because they were both equal. That's what Paul says himself. John? He called Paul's solo work "rubbish". Paul has always been the one to uphold the Beatles' name. I guess after Joh died he aquired some sort of halo, like he never did anything wrong.
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Indica

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Re: What do YOU think?
« Reply #41 on: January 12, 2005, 05:41:46 PM »

Exactly.
I hate to say it, and I think John's great, but after the shocking loss in 1980, Lennons face and name was set into stone, an untoucable Music Hero, with the purity that would make any rocker feel sick! Its happened to so many...maybe if Hendrix hadn't died, he might of done some horrible disco/guitar funk.. or.. Jim Morrison, hugely over-rated in my opinion. I know its all sad, to dwell on speculation, but you have to be a realist sometimes.
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Ssarah

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Re: What do YOU think?
« Reply #42 on: January 12, 2005, 06:44:12 PM »

The Beatles were GREAT but I feel like 90% of the people not just worship the beatles, but paul george ringo and john.  I feel that people have built them up to be the most perfect people in the whole world. It's just not true! They all have their faults, they all can be pricks...and they all can be SELFISH!
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Beatle Ssarah on the forum,
Everyday she posts some more on.
Sometimes triv and sometimes questions,
Chooses tracks and lists the best uns!

Ydoll Gwyn

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Re: What do YOU think?
« Reply #43 on: January 12, 2005, 09:13:48 PM »

[quote by=tkitna link=Blah.pl?b=mccartney,m=1105079361,s=39 date=1105514968]

Sorry about that. Maria was a member that used to belong here that had very similiar ideas to your own as well as writing styles. I liked Maria, but she left and hasent returned yet. I thought you may have been her under a different alias. I wont make the comparison again.

[/quote]

Cool & understood. 'Sides, I'm male! Gwyn is a Cornish male first name. Don't ask what Ydoll means - that's a LONG story.
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Ydoll Gwyn

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Re: What do YOU think?
« Reply #44 on: January 12, 2005, 09:23:53 PM »

People, if you think me a John apologist, you have it wrong. Certainly, I feel that in the Beatles, John Lennon was the ONE, until he surrendered the role in 1967. Though he was still very creative, it is easy to see in hindsight that was the beginning of the end of the Beatles. Paul is not a group leader: he is an organizer, which is not the same thing. The group declined fast because John and George did not want to be organized!

I have little liking for John's & Paul's solo ventures. John burned himself out with the genius of POB. Imagine (I posted a crit of IMAGINE in the JL section) was disappointing. SINYC and MIND GAMES were dreadful. WALLS & BRIDGES was fair, but no great shakes. ROCK N ROLL wasn't inspired rock n roll: for me that's John's saddest album. DF and M&H - least said, soonest mended.

And Paul - some good songs, but no sustained, one whole album's worth of good material. If Paul had not been a Beatle, he would not have the reputation he enjoys today. Same with John.
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Indica

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Re: What do YOU think?
« Reply #45 on: January 12, 2005, 11:48:06 PM »

..the first part of your response is just...ridiculous. How can you believe such nonsense?
Surrended the role? listen, in the early stage, they played 'eyeball to eyeball' ..on twin beds..in which ever Hotel room.  You cant just round of a year, saying..well Paul took control on March 2nd 1967..
John and George did not want to be organized* ..they are not rabbits..this is not a pen. I feel the reasons for the break up were slightly more complex. It all boils down to money..its Human nature.
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Ydoll Gwyn

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Re: What do YOU think?
« Reply #46 on: January 13, 2005, 12:28:46 AM »

I'm not following you. I didn't narrow it down to a day! If you know anything about the Beatles history, you must know that Paul was the "driving force" behind Pepper (though ironically, John's Pepper work is better imo). That's 1967. You must also know that a strong trait in Paul's character is the need to organize - be "bossy" if you like. Remember in later years John would often comment in interviews how Paul would declare "Time for an album or whatever", and John would have to come up with some songs! Mag Myst Tour (1967!) is certainly down to Paul's push and organization.

Of course the reasons for the break-up were more complex. What I DID say was that, in hindsight, that was the beginning of the end.
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Indica

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Re: What do YOU think?
« Reply #47 on: January 13, 2005, 12:36:47 AM »

yes, but it wasn't him being bossy, he was working on the level of their earlier period..thats all. Maybe he was the driving force in Pepper, but at that time, John was still very active in The Beatles recording career etc.
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Mairi

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Re: What do YOU think?
« Reply #48 on: January 13, 2005, 12:57:46 AM »

If he was the drivking force in Pepper, I consider that a good thing. If Paul hadn't tried to organize the group they probably would have crumbled soon before they did. John was too preoccupied with other things (namely drugs and Yoko) to care about music at the time.
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Ydoll Gwyn

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Re: What do YOU think?
« Reply #49 on: January 13, 2005, 01:21:25 AM »

[quote by=IndicaWalrus link=Blah.pl?b=mccartney,m=1105079361,s=47 date=1105576607]yes, but it wasn't him being bossy, he was working on the level of their earlier period..thats all. Maybe he was the driving force in Pepper, but at that time, John was still very active in The Beatles recording career etc.
[/quote]

Oh yes, for sure John was still active in the Beatles recording career. That would only dwindle in late 1968, 1969.
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Indica

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Re: What do YOU think?
« Reply #50 on: January 13, 2005, 01:40:38 AM »

I love his works in 68-69.
Stuff like Come Together, Dear Prudence, Yer Blues, I Want You etc.
It was the attitude, and behaviour.
Mccartney obviously had classics, but the attitude..was..spot on, for a band with such supremecy and force as The Beatles.


Ive Got a Feeling..Mccartney's vocal..sums it up for me :)
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Ydoll Gwyn

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Re: What do YOU think?
« Reply #51 on: January 13, 2005, 07:17:50 PM »

I said John's activity would dwindle in late 1968, 1969. That's late 1968. Therefore, Dear Prudence and Yer Blues don't count.

John's contributions to the Beatles (as opposed to Plastic Ono Band) WRITTEN after the White Album are:
Don't Let me Down (good track)
Dig A Pony (fair)
Everybody Had A Hard Year (uh, ended up as part of I've Got A Feeling)
Come Together (excellent)
I Want You (good)
Because (poor, only the harmony singing is worth while)
Sun King (obvious filler, poor)
Ballad Of J & Y (fair)

This seems to be VERY thin for two albums' worth of conributions.

Other songs were earlier rejects (Mustard, Pam), or recorded earlier (Universe, Bulldog), or not released (eg Suzy Parker).

And what does this mean?

"Ive Got a Feeling..Mccartney's vocal..sums it up for me"

Sums what up?

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Indica

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Re: What do YOU think?
« Reply #52 on: January 13, 2005, 11:52:02 PM »

Sums up Mccartney being a force of the Beatles that was pure, raw and striving. A contrast to the sly, corporate and hating personality he often gets stamped with.

Dear Prudence - Recorded in August 1968 (thus late 68)
Yer Blues - Recorded 13th 14th August -68..thus late.

Maybe Earlier Rejects, but the approach changed.
Its like One After 909, it was reformed, and makes a great version. I wouldn't class earlier songs as rejects, in such a way as it harms Johns Input nature.
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Ydoll Gwyn

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Re: What do YOU think?
« Reply #53 on: January 13, 2005, 11:59:12 PM »

[quote by=IndicaWalrus link=Blah.pl?b=mccartney,m=1105079361,s=52 date=1105660322]Sums up Mccartney being a force of the Beatles that was pure, raw and striving. A contrast to the sly, corporate and hating personality he often gets stamped with.
[/quote]

Pure? Raw? Striving? Surely you jest, sire.

Sly, corporate, and hating personality? Sly and corporate - oh yes. Hating? That's going too far, I agree. A better word would be bitter or resentful.
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Ydoll Gwyn

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Re: What do YOU think?
« Reply #54 on: January 14, 2005, 12:03:12 AM »

[quote by=IndicaWalrus link=Blah.pl?b=mccartney,m=1105079361,s=52 date=1105660322]Its like One After 909, it was reformed, and makes a great version. I wouldn't class earlier songs as rejects, in such a way as it harms Johns Input nature.[/quote]

But that's the point. They had been rejects! And they had to look backwards for material because there was little up ahead.
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Indica

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Re: What do YOU think?
« Reply #55 on: January 14, 2005, 12:09:14 AM »

listen, the obvious repeated cliche trashy Journalism of Mccarney being the Businessman is blinding you. If anything it was Lennon, with his 'divine' appreciation of Klien...and look what that got them.
Yeah, they might of being shelved* for later, but ehat they done with them, with the even more advanced recording abilities shows that they were wise to put them aside.
Little uphead in terms of the Beatles being a creative 4..but not in terms of individual works..which is what the Beatles were at that point.
Look at Harrison, and what he had in stock.
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pc31

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Re: What do YOU think?
« Reply #56 on: January 14, 2005, 12:31:55 AM »

[quote by=Ydoll_Gwyn link=Blah.pl?b=mccartney,m=1105079361,s=54 date=1105660992]

But that's the point. They had been rejects! And they had to look backwards for material because there was little up ahead.[/quote]
look backwards???????they looked back because what they had done together worked before,and they could fathom why it didn't still work.if they still knew how to relate to each other with business aside then it could've worked.but they were to worried about "SELF".if anything killed the beatles it was they were for the most part full of themselves at the end.a clash of egos,boys becoming men,men becoming boys either way the dream ended much too quickly for the rest of us.
sometimes it seems shellfish(lobsterish?) to have wanted them to reunite,when we all know dang diddley well they didn't get along that well anymore.
how can you create something artisic if you hate someone involved?its like tk and dumbo doing a record....lol
i am a lennon fan firstly but think the get back concept was the last best idea the beatles had.and that was pauls idea.
so call it what you want....i call messing with the kid.

pc31

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Re: What do YOU think?
« Reply #57 on: January 14, 2005, 12:34:09 AM »

oh footnote to all "SELF" transformed into being all about business. and by the way indy i think you used one of my quotes.MY LAWYER WILL BE CONTACTING YOU!!! lol

Harrison

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Re: What do YOU think?
« Reply #58 on: January 14, 2005, 03:15:48 AM »

Meh, I don't care.
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Lenny Pane

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Re: What do YOU think?
« Reply #59 on: January 14, 2005, 10:59:05 AM »

[quote by=Ydoll_Gwyn link=Blah.pl?b=mccartney,m=1105079361,s=51 date=1105643870]John's contributions to the Beatles Don't Let me Down (good track)



[/quote]

Good Track ..... i think its a little more than good m8  :o

each to their own i guess  ;)

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