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Author Topic: Religion  (Read 12586 times)

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Mairi

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Re: Religion
« Reply #20 on: February 13, 2006, 01:40:28 PM »

What is is about this forum that always sparks religious debates?
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Bobber

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Re: Religion
« Reply #21 on: February 13, 2006, 01:46:29 PM »

Religion is a good subject for a debate in general. And for war.
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Mairi

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Re: Religion
« Reply #22 on: February 13, 2006, 03:47:39 PM »

Humans are inherently evil. You can't go blaming religion for war. There ware plenty of non-religious people who make judgements, do terrible things and kill.

Besides, what about religions like Quakerism and Jainism that are 100% pacifist?
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Bobber

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Re: Religion
« Reply #23 on: February 13, 2006, 03:55:01 PM »

Of course there's been other reasons for war than just religious ones. But the strange thing is that most (all?) religions claim peace and understanding, and still there's been a lot of killing with religious reasons. That fact that people are pacifist, cannot prevent them from getting involved in a war, obviously because of other reasons. The people of Tibet are mostly religious buddhists with no agression towards anybody, but still the country was occupied by the Chinese. And still is.
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Mairi

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Re: Religion
« Reply #24 on: February 13, 2006, 04:00:29 PM »

That's because we're only human. No one's perfect. Well, there was this one guy... but we killed him.
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Indica

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Re: Religion
« Reply #25 on: February 13, 2006, 05:21:00 PM »

he was perfect - perfect fiction.
But that's just one opinion...


But I respect and sort of admire how strong faith can be seen on the forum. Maybe I was taught about in all the wrong ways.
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somedude210

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Re: Religion
« Reply #26 on: February 13, 2006, 05:46:48 PM »

Quote from: Mairi
That's because we're only human. No one's perfect. Well, there was this one guy... but we killed him.

hmm, i think ill be an ass and question his perfectism:

how was he perfect? he got angered and (supposedly) made love to a hooker and impregnanted her. if thats what it takes to be perfect then most of the politicians in washington are beyond perfect....whoa, i think i just died a little inside... ;D
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Sondra

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Re: Religion
« Reply #27 on: February 13, 2006, 06:25:12 PM »

Again, the point is he was NOT perfect. He was human. He was one of us. He was tempted just like we all are because he WAS a man. I'm not even religious, but this is basic stuff here.

And there's no point in trying to prove he exists just as there is not point in proving that he doesn't. It's unprovable and a waste of time. You either believe you're the beginning and end of the world or you believe there's something higher than yourself. And sometimes you have doubts either way. That's all there is to it.


"If Jesus comes out of his house and is not scared by his shadow it means the next 1000 years will be full of peace and love." -South Park tv reporter.


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Mairi

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Re: Religion
« Reply #28 on: February 13, 2006, 07:02:34 PM »

True, Sandra. He was born human and died human, not like something out of Marvel comics.
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Mairi

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Re: Religion
« Reply #29 on: February 13, 2006, 07:05:37 PM »

Speaking of which, I highly recommend the novel "Lamb" by Christopher Moore, which is an absolutely HILARIOUS book about Jesus' childhood and teen years, narrated by his best friend Biff.
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somedude210

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Re: Religion
« Reply #30 on: February 14, 2006, 03:03:42 AM »

is it just me thats noticing that american government has a stronger religious backing now, which hasnt really been seen since the fundamentalist movement in the 20s? so doe that mean, in our longer list of hypocritical crap done by this government, are we slowly becoming a religious state...which we're trying to eradicate in the rest of the world?

oy, cant we all just get f***ing along?
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Mean_Mr_Mustard

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Re: Religion
« Reply #31 on: February 14, 2006, 03:28:05 AM »

Quote from: Mairi
Humans are inherently evil. You can't go blaming religion for war. There ware plenty of non-religious people who make judgements, do terrible things and kill.

Besides, what about religions like Quakerism and Jainism that are 100% pacifist?

That is if you think Evil exists. The Bible says Killing and rape is evil but why?

Also certain things that could be called evil maybe just part of a culture, in ancient Greece it was common for older men to have sex with young boys were they evil or was it just part of the culture? Why are all of those things above attributed to some "Evil force"

Of course I dont endorse or agree with any of the above things but not because I find them Evil.

1. Killing - I dont want to be killed, I know the pain it will cause people besides the person I kill so I dont do it (Also I have never had an urge to Kill)

2. Rape - I know how it feels do be forced to do something that you dont want to do, I also know the psycological damage it can do to the person and I dont like to cause people pain.

All I am saying is, I dont need to explanation like "That is evil dont do that or that person is evil" I do or dont do things I know how it would feel if it happened to me and also I dont like to cause people pain.

Sorry for rambling on, I just dont like the idea of "Evil" Instead of telling people "Dont do that its evil" Try to explain why not to do that.


Oh btw, wasnt the point of Jesus being sent to earth for him to die? Didnt god send him purposly to die for our sins?
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Sondra

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Re: Religion
« Reply #32 on: February 14, 2006, 04:03:52 AM »

It was also common at one point to buy and sell people. Was that okay because it was part of the culture? Eventually human goodness wins out against mans nature to want to have power over everything and everyone else. If you want to call it evil, fine. That's just a word and doesn't just conjur up religion.
I think you don't do those things you say you know would not feel good to you, because you know it's wrong, wrong, and terribly wrong. You know there are consequences. Whether it be religion or law, that's what keeps us civilized. Some humans need something or someone to put them in their place. If they didn't have those boundries, then who knows what you'd get. Hitler?
You can put down religion but you have to see the good in it too. It's not all what the media is telling you it is. Not every believer in God is out to convert you and tell you how to live. Most couldn't care a less what we do with our lives. And the United States if far from becoming a religious state. No matter what CNN implies.

Also, I think most people understand the reasons why not to rape and kill without it being explained to them. If they need it explained, and think it's okay otherwise, then maybe the word evil isn't too bad a description.
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Mean_Mr_Mustard

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Re: Religion
« Reply #33 on: February 14, 2006, 04:15:57 AM »

I am just saying why blame everything on an invisible "Evil Force"

I dont not do those things because of the Consequences, I do them because I have no urge and I know how it would feel. I dont need to be scared into not doing something because it is "Evil"

I never said having sex with young boys like the Greeks did was not because of some "Evil Force" And the reason people had slaves was not because of some "Evil Force"

I was mostly talking about Children when I said the explanation thing. If you just tell your Children "DONT DO IT ITS WRONG" They wont understand why, explain why.

For instance my friends Girlfriend will just send her son for timeout when he does something wrong and yell at him. How does that help him if you dont explain why what he did was bad?

Quote
You can put down religion but you have to see the good in it too. It's not all what the media is telling you it is. Not every believer in God is out to convert you and tell you how to live. Most couldn't care a less what we do with our lives. And the United States if far from becoming a religious state. No matter what CNN implies.

I never implied any of this, I was talking about "Evil" as in some powerful evil force.
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Sondra

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Re: Religion
« Reply #34 on: February 14, 2006, 04:23:09 AM »

Who ever said it was an evil force? It's people who have no respect for human rights. People who know the difference between good and bad and choose to do wrong anyway. People use the word evil to describe horrible acts, that's all. What better word is there for someone responsible for gassing millions of men, women and children? It has nothing to do with some evil force taking over just because you may call that person evil. To say that would take all responsibility off of the person committing the acts of crime and hatred.

And you don't think consequences keep you from doing certain things you might otherwise not thing twice about? You're conditioned not to in certain cases. Of course most people don't have the urge to kill or rape, but there are other things our society says is wrong and we abide by them because of law, religion, fear, etc.
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Sondra

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Re: Religion
« Reply #35 on: February 14, 2006, 04:26:18 AM »

Quote from: Mean_Mr_Mustard
I am just saying why blame everything on an invisible "Evil Force"

I dont not do those things because of the Consequences, I do them because I have no urge and I know how it would feel. I dont need to be scared into not doing something because it is "Evil"

I never said having sex with young boys like the Greeks did was not because of some "Evil Force" And the reason people had slaves was not because of some "Evil Force"

I was mostly talking about Children when I said the explanation thing. If you just tell your Children "DONT DO IT ITS WRONG" They wont understand why, explain why.

For instance my friends Girlfriend will just send her son for timeout when he does something wrong and yell at him. How does that help him if you dont explain why what he did was bad?



I never implied any of this, I was talking about "Evil" as in some powerful evil force.

I'm speaking in general of the way people seem to be feeling these days. Or are being made to feel. I hear it all the time. People regurgitating what the talking heads say on cable. I shouldn't have used 'you.' I meant a general you. Meaning myself at times too.
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Mean_Mr_Mustard

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Re: Religion
« Reply #36 on: February 14, 2006, 04:28:13 AM »

Yes, for example as I said I dont kill or rape, But I do not wear my seatbelt (against the law) because I know its only a way for them to get money. Poor example but I believe I can see through a bullsh*t law or what society tells me is right and wrong. I make up my own mind I dont just say "Oh no thats wrong better not do it" I ask myself why is this wrong and what could they gain from telling me this is wrong?

I know what you are saying though. I was soley talking about Evil as an "Evil Force" How extremly Religious people think of it.

I am sorry I have all these things floating around in my head but I am not very good at organizing them and writing them down.  :P
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Sondra

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Re: Religion
« Reply #37 on: February 14, 2006, 04:41:55 AM »

It's better to question than to be a sheep blindly following the crowd right off the cliff. People who can't argue and debate are unwilling to see any other side to things. I think that's unhealthy. I mean, who can be that certain about anything? A couple of people in my family are like that. It's like they are SO sure about everything, that they won't even bother listening to a differing point of view. I would never tell them I wasn't sure if God existed. I'd never hear the end of it. They still preach at me for voting for Kerry!
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Mean_Mr_Mustard

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Re: Religion
« Reply #38 on: February 14, 2006, 04:47:32 AM »

Quote from: Maccalvr
It's better to question than to be a sheep blindly following the crowd right off the cliff. People who can't argue and debate are unwilling to see any other side to things. I think that's unhealthy. I mean, who can be that certain about anything? A couple of people in my family are like that. It's like they are SO sure about everything, that they won't even bother listening to a differing point of view. I would never tell them I wasn't sure if God existed. I'd never hear the end of it. They still preach at me for voting for Kerry!

Yeah completly agree, Never take anything for granted question everything. Included yourself which I have started to after getting into Krishnamurti. Its interest to examine every little thing I do and then ask "Why do I do that?"  ;D

I am trying to even myself out on Social issues, be in the middle on everything. I may have my opinion of course but getting to hung up on it, and only socializing with people who have the same opinion makes it too hard to understand the other side of the issue. People need to realize that deep down we are all the same and have the same pain and fears, We are all scared of each other because we think we are so different.

Reminds me of the JL song Isolation. Everyone feels alone and is afraid of everyone else.  :(

Thats why I dont like things that divide is and tell us we are all different, it just makes people more scared.
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Mean_Mr_Mustard

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Re: Religion
« Reply #39 on: February 14, 2006, 04:56:40 AM »

I am sorry I am rambling on a lot now (or opening up) But basically I spend my whole day, my whole life thinking about how we can change the world and make it better. How everything is f***ed up and is makes me angry. I am 18 and I live with my mother and brother. I have never had a Job and my life and my mom is hung up on me getting one and getting on with my life. But I dont want that life, I dont want to live in this f***ed up place I want to try and change it, I dont want to get a job get money buy a house and work at a bullsh*t job my whole life. Worrying about Trivial bullsh*t like "I had a bad day at work today" I am too worried about people living homeless on the streets, people dying of aids and other diseases and people acting like its not happening or saying "There just lazy"

Sorry for rambling. Another thing that erks me though is Animal Rights people, I mean its fine to love and care about animals but look how passionate they are. There are humans that dont have homes and are dying in cruel ways. Should we not take care of them first?
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