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Author Topic: The Summer Of 1960  (Read 10544 times)

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Kevin

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Re: The Summer Of 1960
« Reply #20 on: July 25, 2006, 03:16:10 PM »

I haven't read his book in decades, but didn't Mr W have a hand in many pies - strippers, steel bands, rock bands? Probably would have sent his gran if he it could make him a buck?
Did he pass other bands over to send The B's, or were they all he had left?
(I used to know this once)
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Bobber

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Re: The Summer Of 1960
« Reply #21 on: July 25, 2006, 04:59:21 PM »

Derry and the Seniors were the first to go to Hamburg and then Bruno Koschmider asked for another band. Williams asked Rory Storm, but he and his band were busy doing the Butlins summercamp. Gerry and The Pacemakers were asked, but they didn't dare to go I think. So then came the Beatles. It's true that Allan Williams was quite a 'trader', but on the other hand, in this particular case, I think he was well aware of the business that could come out of Hamburg. The Beatles might have been his last choice however.
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Bobber

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Re: The Summer Of 1960
« Reply #22 on: September 04, 2006, 09:19:12 AM »

Just an excerpt from an interview with Roy Young, as found on the Tony Sheridan World Wide Forum...: http://com3.runboard.com/bthetonysheridanforum


TONY COPPLE: In Allan Williams biography, the Beatles first manager makes the following statement: "The Beatles would go to the Top Ten Club...to watch Tony Sheridan, that great singer-guitarist, at work...He was more or less their idol in those days and they admit to hearing a lot from his style and technique." How accurate is Williams statement? Did they learn a lot too, from Tony Sheridan?

ROY YOUNG: Absolutely! I was always bewildered by the fact that they never made a big thing about that because I know John and George -- you'd always see them there in the front watching Tony's every move, you know. They'd copied him. They really did copy a lot of his moves: styling; the way of play(ing); you know, the stand; and especially John stood just like Tony. And yet I've never heard too much of them ever mentioning much of it before they died, you know, which quite amazed me, you know.

TONY COPPLE: Yeah. Let's talk about Tony Sheridan's stage presence specifically. Is it true that when Tony was on stage performing, he had his legs spread apart and held his guitar like a Tommy-Gun as he sang? You know, the Lennon style... because it's -

ROY YOUNG: (Roy interrupts and says with fondness): No! That's the Sheridan style! Yeah! Oh, yeah.

TONY COPPLE: ...it is reported that John Lennon began incorporating the Tommy-Gun stance when he returned to Liverpool from Hamburg, something he didn't do before in previous shows.

ROY YOUNG: Right, right...that's true.
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Kevin

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Re: The Summer Of 1960
« Reply #23 on: September 04, 2006, 02:04:52 PM »

You're doing good work here Bobber. I wish I knew more about this period so I could contribute.
Everything I've ever read (and its not nearly as much as you guys) has had TS merely as a footnote. And people say you can't rewrite history.
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Bobber

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Re: The Summer Of 1960
« Reply #24 on: September 04, 2006, 02:48:38 PM »

Quote from: 185
You're doing good work here Bobber. I wish I knew more about this period so I could contribute.
Everything I've ever read (and its not nearly as much as you guys) has had TS merely as a footnote. And people say you can't rewrite history.

Thanks. I feel it's a shame Tony is only a footnote. It's undeniable imo that his influence on the early Beatles was big.
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The End

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Re: The Summer Of 1960
« Reply #25 on: September 05, 2006, 12:02:23 PM »

I've seen a few pics of Tony Sheridan playing guitar and standing in a fairly similar way to the famous Lennon stance. But nothing I've seen pictorially is conclusive (for me anyway).

But I do not doubt that he was a huge influence on the early Beatle sound and their musicianship because he really was (and still is) an excellent guitarist.

Bobber

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Re: The Summer Of 1960
« Reply #26 on: September 05, 2006, 12:05:15 PM »

Agreed. We will never know what and even if The Beatles copied things like that. And even if they did, did they do it on purpose?
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Bobber

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Re: The Summer Of 1960
« Reply #27 on: March 16, 2007, 09:25:45 PM »

I thought this great thread deserved a bump...
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BlueMeanie

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Re: The Summer Of 1960
« Reply #28 on: March 17, 2007, 09:19:52 AM »

Quote from: 63
I thought this great thread deserved a bump...

Good call. I'm going to read up more on this period. I always thought TS was an 'also ran'.
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pc31

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Re: The Summer Of 1960
« Reply #29 on: March 17, 2007, 10:59:54 AM »

Quote from: 63
This is the picture:

, to be found on Johnny Gentle's website: http://www.johnnygentle.com. It says 'Scotland Tour', but it does not look like any of the Beatles in the background there. I'm not sure if Johnny did another Scotland tour after the one in May 1960.
that is me in the picture with my head cut off....from a previous life....i remember johnny saying if you die now you can be reborne.... :P

Kevin

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Re: The Summer Of 1960
« Reply #30 on: March 17, 2007, 11:08:50 AM »

That girl's doing a happy little number on his finger. Pain or promise?
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alexis

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Re: The Summer Of 1960
« Reply #31 on: June 13, 2007, 01:42:27 PM »

I agree, Bobber ... though it has been ages since I've listened to the songs from " ... Spring 1960", I do remember thinking they were quite raw - so how in the world did they get good enough in a few months to even be considered to go to Hamburg?

I'm pretty sure the answer is the one that John has said all along - a man came from outer space in a flaming pie and gave them all magical powers (except for Stu). The rest is history!

I would love to know more about that Scotland tour ...

GREAT THREAD!

P.S. pc31 ... is that really you in the pic? If so, you are instantly elevated to demigod status, at least. Can you get Tony Sheridan to comment on this forum? Or how about ... Sir Paul?!!!
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Alexis

Bobber

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Re: The Summer Of 1960
« Reply #32 on: June 13, 2007, 01:48:02 PM »

Quote from: 568
P.S. pc31 ... is that really you in the pic? If so, you are instantly elevated to demigod status, at least. Can you get Tony Sheridan to comment on this forum? Or how about ... Sir Paul?!!!

You mean pc's avatar? He'd wish! It's John Lennon!

I might be talking to Tony Sheridan in September actually. Anything you'd like to know? Oh, and I'll do some digging on the Scotland tour.
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alexis

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Re: The Summer Of 1960
« Reply #33 on: June 13, 2007, 02:01:37 PM »

Quote from: 63

You mean pc's avatar? He'd wish! It's John Lennon!

Actually, see pc31's post # 29 of this thread ... he is on stage with Tony Sheridan!

Quote from: 63
I might be talking to Tony Sheridan in September actually. Anything you'd like to know? Oh, and I'll do some digging on the Scotland tour.  


Well, in thinking about what I'd ask you to talk to him about, I see that if I actually met any of the Beatles, I would be struck completely mute. Even now, wondering what I'd ask you to ask Tony Sheridan about, I can't form a coherent thought!! I suppose I might ask ... was Paul the MUSICAL band leader then, acknowledging that John was clearly the alpha guy. The reason I'm wondering is that over the past few years, as I've seen and heard more of their early live shows, I've been wondering more and more whether it was actually Paul that ran the stage show - doing the countdown for example (even in the most important gig of their lives at the time, the Ed Sullivan show, as well as many others), making eye contact with Ringo and George to cue them in when they had their special bits in songs. From the footage I've seen, it's rare that John did much of that, except to look at Paul now and then.

Or maybe I'd ask about Bettina from the Cavern Club album ... was that John's German waitress/bartender girlfriend? Was Paul making a play for her from the stage?


And if you're TALKING to Tony Sheridan ... I'm mute with awe! And ... can you get Paul to listen to my songs? :-)
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Alexis

Bobber

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Re: The Summer Of 1960
« Reply #34 on: June 13, 2007, 02:28:07 PM »

Quote from: 568

Actually, see pc31's post # 29 of this thread ... he is on stage with Tony Sheridan!
Ah, I see! I missed that!

Quote from: 568
Well, in thinking about what I'd ask you to talk to him about, I see that if I actually met any of the Beatles, I would be struck completely mute. Even now, wondering what I'd ask you to ask Tony Sheridan about, I can't form a coherent thought!! I suppose I might ask ... was Paul the MUSICAL band leader then, acknowledging that John was clearly the alpha guy. The reason I'm wondering is that over the past few years, as I've seen and heard more of their early live shows, I've been wondering more and more whether it was actually Paul that ran the stage show - doing the countdown for example (even in the most important gig of their lives at the time, the Ed Sullivan show, as well as many others), making eye contact with Ringo and George to cue them in when they had their special bits in songs. From the footage I've seen, it's rare that John did much of that, except to look at Paul now and then.

Or maybe I'd ask about Bettina from the Cavern Club album ... was that John's German waitress/bartender girlfriend? Was Paul making a play for her from the stage?


And if you're TALKING to Tony Sheridan ... I'm mute with awe! And ... can you get Paul to listen to my songs? :-)

It's not unusual that the bassplayer is in some way the musical leader in the band. In fact, it's the guy who is getting the rhythm section (drums/bass) together with the other instruments. It's not unusual either that bassplayers are good producers: they have good ears and can put things together and in line. So yeah, Paul could very well have been some kind of leader on stage.
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alexis

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Re: The Summer Of 1960
« Reply #35 on: June 13, 2007, 04:03:23 PM »

Quote from: 63
Ah, I see! I missed that!



It's not unusual that the bassplayer is in some way the musical leader in the band. In fact, it's the guy who is getting the rhythm section (drums/bass) together with the other instruments. It's not unusual either that bassplayers are good producers: they have good ears and can put things together and in line. So yeah, Paul could very well have been some kind of leader on stage.


(In best John voice) ... "What about my songs, then?"
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Alexis

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Re: The Summer Of 1960
« Reply #36 on: June 13, 2007, 09:02:53 PM »

Quote from: 35
I think these recordings illustrate how quickly The Beatles' playing improved that year.

Most of the rambling instrumentals come from April on the "Astrid Kirchherr tape" and, indeed, are pretty bad. However, they sound more like exercises than actual attempts to play concise songs. Because Stu's playing is SO bad, I often wonder if this wasn't recorded earlier than April.

In May they went on the Johnny Gentle Tour. This seems to have honed their abilities a bit which is evident on the more concise songs heard on the "Hans Walter-Braun tape" from July 1960. Sure, Stu's still plodding along but John, Paul and George have tightened up considerably.

And, within a year, they would record an album with Tony Sheridan. Not a bad pace.


(Well, while waiting for Paul to call me about my songs ...)

Back on topic - yes it was an incredible pace. I had never thought much about it, but I believe you and Bobber are spot on ... this was a magical year for them.

Does anyone know much about the Johnny Gentle tour? I've read that bit in last Christmas' book (John dragging an injured drummer (car wreck) out of hospital to make him play so they didn't miss a gig ... it's like he knew destiny demanded they didn't slow down!), but I haven't heard much about what happened musically.

I wonder if Paul has a site to ask him questions. I bet he hasn't been asked that one too often!

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zipp

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Re: The Summer Of 1960
« Reply #37 on: June 14, 2007, 10:00:05 AM »

I've recently seen a DVD with an interview with Tony Sheridan.He's an extremely articulate guy and I'm sure he had an immense influence.
Wasn't he on the TV show 65Special that the Beatles watched religiously?
Didn't he have a problem being on time?
Maybe you can ask him about that.
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alexis

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Re: The Summer Of 1960
« Reply #38 on: June 14, 2007, 01:27:06 PM »

Quote from: 410
I've recently seen a DVD with an interview with Tony Sheridan.He's an extremely articulate guy and I'm sure he had an immense influence.
Wasn't he on the TV show 65Special that the Beatles watched religiously?
Didn't he have a problem being on time?
Maybe you can ask him about that.


Hi Zipp -

Maybe I will!

Comparing them, I see that you have the British label at the top of the photo and I've got the American. Comparing further, does it look like your's is closer up than mine? I'm jealous!

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BlueMeanie

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Re: The Summer Of 1960
« Reply #39 on: June 14, 2007, 01:42:52 PM »

Quote from: 568

Comparing them, I see that you have the British label at the top of the photo and I've got the American. Comparing further, does it look like your's is closer up than mine? I'm jealous!

From memory I think the image on the American Meet The Beatles was slightly smaller than the UK With The Beatles. It's also slightly more contrasty because I believe Capitol reproduced the cover by actually photographing a WTB cover. Someone may correct me on this!
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