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Author Topic: You've Got To Hide Your Love Away + Brian Epstein  (Read 4926 times)

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Kaleidoscope_Eyes

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Re: You've Got To Hide Your Love Away + Brian Epstein
« Reply #20 on: June 07, 2007, 04:26:27 AM »

Quote from: 551
Of course this is just my interpretation.

I completely agree with your interpretation.

You know, i have always wondered why the Beatles never wrote a song about Epstein (a thank you song or a "we are missing you" type of song). I think i know the answer but... i stil wonder
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harihead

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Re: You've Got To Hide Your Love Away + Brian Epstein
« Reply #21 on: June 07, 2007, 03:18:40 PM »

Quote from: 596
You know, i have always wondered why the Beatles never wrote a song about Epstein (a thank you song or a "we are missing you" type of song). I think i know the answer but... i stil wonder
Ooh, I have to say, I never thought about it. Would you mind sharing your speculation? Cheers. :)

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All you've got to do is choose love.  That's how I live it now.  I learned a long time ago, I can feed the birds in my garden.  I can't feed them all. -- Ringo Starr, Rolling Stone magazine, May 2007<br />

Kaleidoscope_Eyes

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Re: You've Got To Hide Your Love Away + Brian Epstein
« Reply #22 on: June 07, 2007, 10:36:54 PM »

my speculations... hmmm... *to tell the truth i forgot what i had in mind yesterday* but i'd imagine John not writing about Eppy becuase it was too painful perhaps? Or he had other things to worry about, like it-aint-working-with-cyn situation. You know, maybe they still felt uneasy writing a sincere song about a homosexual....? Oh I dunno... But they could have done it later....
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DarkSweetLady

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Re: You've Got To Hide Your Love Away + Brian Epstein
« Reply #23 on: June 07, 2007, 11:44:00 PM »

I've heard it before...

  I'm pretty sure it was written about him... because of his "preference"...

8)
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The Fox Drummer

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Re: You've Got To Hide Your Love Away + Brian Epstein
« Reply #24 on: June 11, 2007, 05:48:15 PM »

Quote from: 551
So it's not surprising to me if John was intrigued by homosexuality or experimented with it.

Yeah, I definitely agree with this. John, as was previously mentioned, has always come off as 'sexually confused' to me, so I think that it might have been possible that he experimented with it for personal reasons - because he was frustrated with his current relationship, because he wanted to try something different, because he was just curious, perhaps. I wouldn't put it past him, really - I don't think he'd be very squeamish about anything having to do with sex ;), and if he and Brian did actually end up doing anything (and I do think this is debatable, I was just citing the Spanish vacation as a possibility), it was Brian, after all, someone he knew and trusted.

I think if John was privately intrigued by homosexuality, it would make sense that he would write a song about it with Brian in mind, as the closest person to them who was gay. (And then disguise it, of course, by doing some switching of pronouns, because the other way around could be potentially disasterous at the time).
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Bobber

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Re: You've Got To Hide Your Love Away + Brian Epstein
« Reply #25 on: June 11, 2007, 07:42:10 PM »

I think John was the kind of guy that went out to beat up gays.
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The Fox Drummer

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Re: You've Got To Hide Your Love Away + Brian Epstein
« Reply #26 on: June 11, 2007, 07:56:20 PM »

Well, he certainly gave Brian quite a bit of flak, but that was verbal only...do you mean physically? Because I definitely wouldn't write him down as that kind of person.
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DarkSweetLady

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Re: You've Got To Hide Your Love Away + Brian Epstein
« Reply #27 on: June 12, 2007, 01:17:34 AM »

i kind of agree with Bobber.... at least in his early years.... before the whole PEACE thing....


    maybe he just tolerated brian b/c he was a good manager....

i can't even begin to try and explain john'smind....

8)
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Bobber

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Re: You've Got To Hide Your Love Away + Brian Epstein
« Reply #28 on: June 12, 2007, 08:01:51 AM »

Quote from: 668
i kind of agree with Bobber.... at least in his early years.... before the whole PEACE thing....
maybe he just tolerated brian b/c he was a good manager....
i can't even begin to try and explain john'smind....
8)

Certainly in the early Beatles days, John Lennon could be a terrible pain in the ass. Even Stuart Sutcliffe suffered John's neverending sarcasm. And John could be physically violent too. He even beat up his own girlfriend once.
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Kevin

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Re: You've Got To Hide Your Love Away + Brian Epstein
« Reply #29 on: June 12, 2007, 08:24:22 AM »

I love this "John was intrigued" by homosexuality stuff. I think you're allowing John a bit of grace denied to others. Intrigued?
Re his homophobia (physical and verbal) have you heard the saying "sir - you doth protest to much!"
I quote: "Hompohobia....attitudes serving an ego defensive function lower a person's anxiety resulting from her or his unconscious psychological conflicts, such as those surrounding sexuality or gender."

I think it would be very much in keeping with John's character to use his wit and sarcasm (and violence) to mask an uncomfortable truth.
ASnd it's not as if Brian was an isolated incident. Was john still intrigued in '66 when he climbed into bed with very openly gay Mr Royston and "Pam?"

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Bobber

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Re: You've Got To Hide Your Love Away + Brian Epstein
« Reply #30 on: June 12, 2007, 10:49:35 AM »

Well, intrigued to say the least: http://dmbeatles.com/forums/b-songs/m-1106329907/s-0/

Oh, Kevin, you know I love you.
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harihead

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Re: You've Got To Hide Your Love Away + Brian Epstein
« Reply #31 on: June 12, 2007, 03:26:05 PM »

Quote from: 185
Was john still intrigued in '66 when he climbed into bed with very openly gay Mr Royston and "Pam?"
Well, my answer would be, Yes! ;D

I don't know anything about this incident, but considering the various wacky things John did throughout his life, this seems of a piece with it. Remember, I'm spectrum gal! Sexuality is a spectrum. Some people have no interest in their same gender, some have an interest, some have an attraction, some are only attracted to their same sex. I don't have a problem with it, personally. I have too many gay friends to feel the stigma some people seem to feel about being homosexual. I'm happy with John being anywhere on the spectrum he actually was. I'm only unhappy about the prejudices that make "homosexual" into a slur. I hope we've come a bit farther today in understanding and tolerance from when John was a young man. *hugs all around, irrespective of gender*
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All you've got to do is choose love.  That's how I live it now.  I learned a long time ago, I can feed the birds in my garden.  I can't feed them all. -- Ringo Starr, Rolling Stone magazine, May 2007<br />

Kevin

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Re: You've Got To Hide Your Love Away + Brian Epstein
« Reply #32 on: June 12, 2007, 03:32:44 PM »

^ I agree totally. This is not about making a judgement call.
I still don't think it's fair that John gets let off with being "intrigued" yet if anyone of us did the same we'd be tagged at best bisexual, at worse a screaming queen, or get called "Kevin the bus-driver f*cker" and forced to move town.....
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harihead

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Re: You've Got To Hide Your Love Away + Brian Epstein
« Reply #33 on: June 12, 2007, 04:46:58 PM »

Right, sorry. What I meant to imply with that "intrigued" business is that I still don't think we know to what degree John engaged in homosexual behavior. (Correct me if I'm wrong; my knowledge of John lore is incomplete.) He definitely asked Eppy about it when they vacationed-- "What makes this guy attractive?" and so on. Well, that's just curious. I've done the same. The Beatles definitely shared women and (at least when they were young) had sex in the same room, so this Pam business can be more of the same (as I don't know the details, I could be wrong).

I didn't mean to point to anyone here as being intolerant. It's just this idea that, if John in any way had any kind of homosexual encounter, he's gay. Which is just silly IMHO. I'm just personally trying to keep an open mind about it. If John considered himself straight, he'd be annoyed at being called gay (young John would actually attack you; we have proof!). Although perhaps today he'd take it as a compliment. You never know.

Quote from: 185
we'd be tagged at best bisexual, at worse a screaming queen, or get called "Kevin the bus-driver f*cker" and forced to move town.....
This is the attitude I'm referring to. People being tagged and branded with insulting names, and forced to move town when they have done nothing wrong and nothing that hurts anybody else. Really, this is one prejudice that just baffles me.
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All you've got to do is choose love.  That's how I live it now.  I learned a long time ago, I can feed the birds in my garden.  I can't feed them all. -- Ringo Starr, Rolling Stone magazine, May 2007<br />

Kevin

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Re: You've Got To Hide Your Love Away + Brian Epstein
« Reply #34 on: June 12, 2007, 04:56:33 PM »

Quote from: 551
This is the attitude I'm referring to. People being tagged and branded with insulting names, and forced to move town when they have done nothing wrong and nothing that hurts anybody else. Really, this is one prejudice that just baffles me.

I know. It really hurt.
I'm not for a moment suggesting John wasn't attracted to women (though it would not suprise me to find out he wasn't.)
I think I'm more battling against those who say "of course John was straight" as if it were impossible for a Beatle to be anything but.
And if I'm really honest, I probably want John to be bent. I get a nice warm feeling when the safe-white-middleclass-heterosexual world gets a little kick in the nuts. Nice for us to remember that we're not all square pegs in square holes.
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harihead

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Re: You've Got To Hide Your Love Away + Brian Epstein
« Reply #35 on: June 12, 2007, 05:10:47 PM »

 :)
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All you've got to do is choose love.  That's how I live it now.  I learned a long time ago, I can feed the birds in my garden.  I can't feed them all. -- Ringo Starr, Rolling Stone magazine, May 2007<br />

Bobber

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Re: You've Got To Hide Your Love Away + Brian Epstein
« Reply #36 on: June 23, 2007, 10:14:14 AM »

Quote from: 596

I completely agree with your interpretation.

You know, i have always wondered why the Beatles never wrote a song about Epstein (a thank you song or a "we are missing you" type of song). I think i know the answer but... i stil wonder

They played 'Brian Epstein's Blues', I think during the Let It Be sessions.
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Revolution

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Re: You've Got To Hide Your Love Away + Brian Epstein
« Reply #37 on: June 27, 2007, 03:22:33 AM »

John said he got a" handjob" from Brian on that vacation ,but that was as far as it went.
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Kaleidoscope_Eyes

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Re: You've Got To Hide Your Love Away + Brian Epstein
« Reply #38 on: June 27, 2007, 11:34:30 AM »

^ reference?
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Kevin

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Re: You've Got To Hide Your Love Away + Brian Epstein
« Reply #39 on: June 27, 2007, 11:47:36 AM »

Quote from: 596
^ reference?

Tonight I'll check my Big Book Of Homosexuals to see what I can find. It could be under I for intrigued or H for handjob.
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