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Author Topic: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road  (Read 7261 times)

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alexis

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Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
« Reply #40 on: November 27, 2008, 04:45:33 AM »

Quote from: 1062
John was always trying to tap an altered state of consciousness to achieve creative thinking. It began with beer. Then on to the Vick inhaler strip that Royston Ellis introduced us too. Then on to Captogen and Preludin, then Transcendental Meditation, then LSD, then Primal Scream etc

Precious invaluable observations ... thanks Bill!

BTW - Vick's inhaler strip...?

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fendertele

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Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
« Reply #41 on: November 27, 2008, 02:17:38 PM »

Quote from: 568

Precious invaluable observations ... thanks Bill!

BTW - Vick's inhaler strip...?


Im gonna sound a little niave here but is vicks inhaler strap something similiar to vicks vapo rub ? only its strapped to youre face and gets you high if breathed in over long periods ?
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Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
« Reply #42 on: December 30, 2008, 09:35:50 PM »

but The Kinks really look like they were The Beatles wannabe band, isn't it? those hairdos etc but their music were truly different. during 1964, The Kinks really were better than The Beatles with their "you really got me" (luv that song) but what they have done after that? ohh sorry I'm off topic like always ;D no I don't think he was inspired by The Kinks. The Kinks were inspired by... by both, John and The Beatles. I don't see any marked sign by The Kinks on "polythene pam" or "mean mr mustard"
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Bobber

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Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
« Reply #43 on: December 31, 2008, 10:30:04 AM »

Quote from: 1458
... but what they have done after that? .

Oh dear.
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fendertele

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Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
« Reply #44 on: December 31, 2008, 11:35:50 AM »

Quote from: 63

Oh dear.

 ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Bobber

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Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
« Reply #45 on: December 31, 2008, 11:40:03 AM »

Quote from: 758

 ;D ;D ;D ;D

I didn't mean to make a joke.  :)
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Geoff

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Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
« Reply #46 on: December 31, 2008, 12:14:54 PM »

Quote from: 1458
but what they have done after that?

Well, let's see, there was.... Never mind; have it your way.  ;D

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Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
« Reply #47 on: December 31, 2008, 02:21:58 PM »

yeah whatsoever  :P
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Out Of Me Head

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Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
« Reply #48 on: March 27, 2009, 10:30:48 PM »

Around the time of Abbey Road Lennon said he wasnt interested in "writing about council estates and the provinces", Ray Davies did little else.
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adamzero

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Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
« Reply #49 on: March 28, 2009, 04:35:39 AM »

I think the Kinks influence was pretty profound--especially in the Rubber Soul, Revolver, Sgt Pepper era (with some Syd Barrett influencing songs like "Lucy in the Sky" and "Being for the Benefit of Mr Kite"--the eccentric British irony is palpable in "I'm Only Sleeping" and "Rain"--not to mention modern city slice-of-life portraits which Ray developed on "Face to Face" and "Something New".  I also see Syd Barrett as a huge influence (as much as Dylan) on John's side-trip into psychedelia (which he eschewed by the time of his solo career).   Paul must have felt Ray's influence too in "Lovely Rita" and "When I'm 64"--both very English in their humor.  

Ray was a force to be reckoned with.  
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Pegasus

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Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
« Reply #50 on: May 08, 2009, 05:46:42 PM »

It's SO EASY to have hindsight of course....(Like The Titanic slowing down a bit...)

After the Fractured but Brilliant "White Album" they SHOULD have taken a GOOD REST from each other...and gone off to do their respective "Own things"....that way they COULD have, er, "Come Together" again later...when each was ready to work as "The Beatles" again.... in hindsight !

Instead they in retrospect unwisely  DIVED straight  into the Abortive "Get Back" project....(Later aka "Le it Be")....and effectively the strain heightened previously controlled longtime simmering issues....plus Yoko's quiet ever-presence...that was DEAFENING...and thus they  "Broke up" in front of the rolling cameras..

The decision was then made  to go on on a HIGH (thanks Lads !) ....EACH Knew "Abbey Road" was the Band's Swansong....it even actually  closes with: "The End" - & NOT originally "Her Majesty"....which was later put on the "run out groove" section prior to issue.

John was influenced.... by Chuck Berry in bringing in "Old Flat Top" from "You Can't Catch Me" for "Come Together"...Later John did an "off the cuff" playout version of "Ya Ya" (with young Julian on Drums) on "Walls and Bridges" to pay off royalties to the Copyrite owners of that AND the Berry song...as a settlement when they objected to use of Chuck's character old "Flatty"  !

George MUST have heard James Taylor's APPLE recording: "Something in The Way She Moves"....one Hell of a Co-incidence if not.....the song WAS original tho'....and at long last...George  got the SINGLE off a Beatles album..

Overall of course  they were original....indeed  10c.c.'s 1972 hit "Oh Donna" owes a good bit to Paul's "Oh Darling"...yes ?

Badfinger's excellent 1975 song "Timeless"....clearly owes a debt to  John's "She's So Heavy" riff excercise...

They WERE Writing independantly by this stage tho'....most of the side two material - the collage - consisted of unfinished song ideas begun in India in 1968 - these never were completed as indvidual songs ....but flowed together quite magnificently....

There is a poignant moment in the 1971 Film "Imagine" where a (That time a "Friendly fan"....unlike in 1980  :() gate- crashes John's home....just to say how MUCH his song "Carry That Weight" touched his soul and he could identify with it........

John answers; "...It was PAUL who wrote that...!"  (- Er...WRONG  Mr. Fan !!  ;D)
 
Paul's "She Came in Through The Bathroom Window"...refers to a 1965 incident at a Moody Blues party that the "in Pop crowd" incl The Fab Four  all attended....when a persistant Girl fan shimmied up the drainpipe....got in via the open bathroom window...and climbed into Moodie Ray Thomas' bed...!

Paul also refers to a USA Yellow Cab driver he & Linda met in "You Never Give Me Your Money"

George & Eric Clapton actually co-wrote "Here Comes The Sun" & Cream's "Badge" together on a boosy sunny afternoon in Eric's garden...Eric later refused a songwriting credit on the Beatle song...while George duly played rhythm guitar as "L'Angelo Mysterioso" on the Cream song...of which George was writing the Lyrics on a pice of paper....he put BRIDGE for the instrumental portion....Clapton looking at it upside down,  from across the table, asked George  Why he put "BADGE" in the middle of the lyrics....hence the song's name !

George co-wrote "Octopus' Garden" with Ringo...knocking it into shape instrumentally ...again NOT taking a songwriting credit.

The "Abbey Road" album saw the Fab Four putting aside their personal frictions to "Finsh on a High"....knowing it was the Finale...thus purely as Musicians they were able to "Gell" as a Unit....performing as a Band - note NO totally  "Solo Paul" or "Solo John" efforts here...(aside from the jokey "Her Majesty") ....the others are always notably  in attendance...often as backing vocalists, several tracks feature close Lennon-McCartney-Harrison vocal harmonies......certainly as instrumentalists....thus there is a sense of Band unity often absent on the preceeding few Beatles albums....note how on "the End" George, John, & Paul take alternating guitar solos....then Ringo gets a rare drumming solo....it's their Encore number.

In a way the Belated issue of "Let it Be" - with the ONE final Beatles track...cut only by George, Paul, & Ringo ("I Me Mine") ....has obscured the True Importance of "Abbey Road" as the Beatles Swansong....
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Pegasus

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Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
« Reply #51 on: May 08, 2009, 06:09:11 PM »

One thing I would add re "Sgt Pepper..."

Syd Barrett did NOT influence songs on "Sgt Pepper" like "Lucy in the Sky..." etc

Pink Floyd (Barrett-Waters-Wright-Mason) were actually allowed to watch the Beatles Recording "Sgt.Pepper" by earlier Beatles recording Engineer Norman "Hurricane" Smith who was Pink Floyd's Producer...Floyd were then recent signings to EMI put on their Columbia label.

Pink Floyd then used some of the Instruments The Beatles had used on "Sgt.Pepper" on their debut album "Piper At The Gates of Dawn"

Listen to Pink Floyd's "Paintbox" (1969), the tinkling piano conclusion echoes the fadeout on "Magical Mystery Tour"...as later the guitar riff on "Lunatic is on The Grass" from D.S.O.T.M. (1973) echoes the guitar  riff on "Dear Prudence" (1968)....as also does 10.c.c.'s guitar intro to "Feel The Benefit" on "Deceptive Bends" later in 1978...

I'm not sure it is accurate to say Syd Barrett influenced John Lennon in 1967...more likely the other way round going by "Tomorrow Never Knows" from 1966...and "Strawberry Fields Forever" (1967) - indeed Paul's "Penny Lane" is equally surreal....yes ?

John Lennon being introduced to the Mellotron by old friend Mike Pinder of The Moody Blues...(Manfred Mann also played on earlier on "Semi Detached Suburban Mr.James" in 1966...)

While re the Psychedelic clothing on "Sgt.Pepper" (1967 - Parlophone PMC / PCS 7027)....this was in fact influenced by the cover Art work of The Hollies earlier album "Evolution" (1967 - Parlophone PMC / PCS 7022) - The Beatles then using the SAME Artists Simon & Marijke (aka "The Fool")  for their psychedelic clothing  for Peter Blake's famous setting "Sgt.Pepper" cover  - as then did likewise Jimi Hendrix...using that Hollies album cover  photographer Karl Ferris... for the USA cover of his album "Are You Experienced ?"
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pc31

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Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
« Reply #52 on: May 10, 2009, 01:58:40 PM »

edric DID NOT help with here comes the sun...george wrote it while strolling around erics garden....with one of eric acoustic guitars...george was waiting for eric to come home...

Pegasus

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Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
« Reply #53 on: May 10, 2009, 06:48:43 PM »

that's strange as I heard George Harrison himself actually say that  Eric DID write it with him in a Radio One interview back in the Seventies....and Eric REFUSED then to then take a label credit

So is George a Liar...?  
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harihead

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Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
« Reply #54 on: May 10, 2009, 08:00:16 PM »

Eric might have contributed something-- I never heard this interview, so I can't comment on what George might have been thinking. It's common for musicians to contribute to each other's work and in those days, you couldn't easily share credit across labels (at least that was true in Eric and George's case). So musicians tended to reciprocate rather than openly acknowledge credit. I think it's going a bit far to say Eric "co-wrote" it with him, particularly as Eric was never a prolific songwriter. His contribution was probably on the order of Ringo contributing the "swans" line to "Badge".

Do you have a link for this interview? The 70s were a while ago. I'm enjoying your contributions to the forum, but that's a long time to remember exactly what George said. He was generally pretty open about sharing credit.

This is a bit of a tangent, but I have often shaken my head at the Beatles' fading memories. I have read interviews where John and Paul say the most ridiculous things-- like they met when they were 17 or equally silly mistakes. Of course they should know what year they wrote or released a song-- but they don't! They get it wrong an amazing number of times.

That said, I believe it was Hunter Davies (correct me?) who said that George had the best memory among the Beatles. (Don't worry; he gets lots of things wrong that we fans can correct him on, but he was less wrong on average than John and Paul.)
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Hombre_de_ningun_lugar

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Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
« Reply #55 on: May 11, 2009, 07:11:16 PM »

Quote from: 551
This is a bit of a tangent, but I have often shaken my head at the Beatles' fading memories. I have read interviews where John and Paul say the most ridiculous things-- like they met when they were 17 or equally silly mistakes. Of course they should know what year they wrote or released a song-- but they don't! They get it wrong an amazing number of times.

That said, I believe it was Hunter Davies (correct me?) who said that George had the best memory among the Beatles. (Don't worry; he gets lots of things wrong that we fans can correct him on, but he was less wrong on average than John and Paul.)

What about this Paul McCartney 1984 interview? He said:

"I remember one time when we were making Help! in Austria. We'd been out skiing all day for the film and so we were all tired. I usually shared a room with George. But on this particular occasion, I was in with John. We were taking our huge skiing boots off and getting ready for the evening and stuff, and we had one of our cassettes. It was one of the albums, probably Revolver or Rubber Soul--I'm a bit hazy about which one. It may have been the one that had my song Here, There and Everywhere. There were three of my songs and three of John's songs on the side we were listening to. And for the first time ever, he just tossed it off, without saying anything definite, "Oh, I probably like your songs better than mine." And that was it! That was the height of praise I ever got off him.  Mumbles "I probably like your songs better than mine." Whoops! There was no one looking, so he could say it."

They were listening to Revolver or Rubber Soul while filming Help!? Maybe Paul's double (who replaced him after his death) wasn't very aware of such details. ;D
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Bobber

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Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
« Reply #56 on: May 11, 2009, 07:18:52 PM »

Sure. They always worked a year in advance.
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pc31

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Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
« Reply #57 on: May 11, 2009, 10:55:40 PM »

i woul;d love to hear this interview as well....i will seek one when he claims he wrote in erics garden while waiting for him...and the extent of georges part on badge was merely a misread title by eric and georges' harmony and guitar parts.....i think people give slow hand too much credit sometimes...i remember him promoting himself in with the in crowds during the 60s...trying to fit in where he didn't belong...what was really funny was that erics new band in the late 60s was gonna be mitch mitchell and noel redding but they went to a hendrix show and were so blown away they joined jimis band instead... ;D i do not believe edric had a number one album that year either... ;)
http://justanotherwillyloman.blogspot.com/2009/03/happy-spring-here-comes-sun.html

pc31

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Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
« Reply #58 on: May 11, 2009, 11:06:22 PM »

Here Comes The Sun
"Here Comes the Sun" is a song by George Harrison from The Beatles' 1969 album Abbey Road.
The song, one of Harrison's best-known Beatles contributions alongside "Something", had its genesis with a songwriting collaboration between Harrison and close friend Eric Clapton called "Badge," recorded by Clapton's group Cream, and featuring an arpeggiated guitar riff that is similar to the one that forms the bridge of "Here Comes the Sun". 1969 was a difficult year for Harrison: he was arrested for marijuana possession, he had his tonsils removed, and he had temporarily quit the band. The song was written while Harrison was away from all of these troubles.

Harrison stated in The Beatles Anthology:


"Here Comes The Sun was written at the time when Apple was getting like school, where we had to go and be businessmen: 'Sign this' and 'sign that'. Anyway, it seems as if winter in England goes on forever, by the time spring comes you really deserve it. So one day I decided I was going to sag off Apple and I went over to Eric Clapton's house. The relief of not having to go see all those dopey accountants was wonderful, and I walked around the garden with one of Eric's acoustic guitars and wrote Here Comes The Sun".

George Harrison: Acoustic Guitar, Vocals, Moog Synthesizer, Hammond Organ and Handclaps
Paul McCartney: Bass, Backing Vocals and Handclaps
Ringo Starr: Drums and Handclaps
Orchestration By George Martin
     it should be noted that john lennon DID NOT PLAY ON THE SONG.....

harihead

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Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
« Reply #59 on: May 12, 2009, 04:44:10 AM »

Quote from: 1997
They were listening to Revolver or Rubber Soul while filming Help!? Maybe Paul's double (who replaced him after his death) wasn't very aware of such details. ;D
LOL-- perfect! That is exactly what I meant, Hombre. Lovely find.


Quote from: 63
Sure. They always worked a year in advance.
This explains a great deal. That's why they seemed so brilliant-- they always had the benefit of hindsight.


PC31, thanks for the references!
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