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Author Topic: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road  (Read 7531 times)

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pc31

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Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
« Reply #60 on: May 13, 2009, 01:29:46 AM »

Quote from: 2092
that's strange as I heard George Harrison himself actually say that  Eric DID write it with him in a Radio One interview back in the Seventies....and Eric REFUSED then to then take a label credit

So is George a Liar...?  
either george or you!!!
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tkitna

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Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
« Reply #61 on: May 13, 2009, 06:42:03 AM »

Quote from: 284
either george or you!!!



glass onion

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Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
« Reply #62 on: May 13, 2009, 09:38:11 AM »

not sure if paul could have been inspired by ray davies in his writing of 'when i'm 64'-didnt paul write that in about 1961-62?then kept it back until the year his dad turned 64?
also,the reason the beatles went ahead 'straight away'after the white album(actually a couple of months at least)with the get back project-paul really thought that the band were coming to an end anyway.so perhaps he could get them cajoled and 'up' again with a fresh new 'live' project?we all know how it ended up,but still a good idea?i think so.it just goes to show how much rot had actually set in already.for anyone who has not read the book,purchase'get back;the beatles' let it be disaster'by doug sulphy.absolutely vital if you are interested in this phase of the beatles career.
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Kevin

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Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
« Reply #63 on: May 13, 2009, 04:11:52 PM »

Quote from: 1594
not sure if paul could have been inspired by ray davies in his writing of 'when i'm 64'-didnt paul write that in about 1961-62?then kept it back until the year his dad turned 64?

Again I thought it was more to do with production/arrangement. Paul was playing WI64 early on, but was it arranged in that "flapper" way? It's easy to imagine it as a straight song, Paul hearing The kinks and thinking that arrangement would suit, so it's possible, regardless of the songs age. George Martin had produced acts that used that twenties sound before the Beatles.
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glass onion

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Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
« Reply #64 on: May 13, 2009, 07:42:18 PM »

ah,good point kevin.could be mate,could be.
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pc31

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Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
« Reply #65 on: May 18, 2009, 07:49:37 PM »

quIzJUBPv14
not the hollies only carl...

adamzero

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Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
« Reply #66 on: May 18, 2009, 10:26:54 PM »

D'oh!  I should have remembered that Paul wrote "64" long before Sgt. Pepper or Ray Davies' rise to fame.   But thanks to Kevin for seeing a possible connection.  

I always wondered if Paul had the whole thing written (like "the Vera, Chuck and Dave" thing) when he was 15 years old.  

I do think that John was very susceptible to influences (Dylan, Chuck Berry, etc.).  I think he wrote "I Am the Walrus" just to write a Dylan song (better than Dylan).  And once he had achieved that, he moved on.  I wonder who influenced his minimalist style of POB (Lou Reed, Velvets?)--that is, beside Yoko.  
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Pegasus

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Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
« Reply #68 on: May 19, 2009, 08:31:31 AM »

The songwriting collaboration between George Harrison & Eric Clapton on "Badge" DIRECTLY influenced and played a part in George composing  "Here Comes The Sun"....Harrison even made a NOTE to himself re including a bridge section chord sequence based directly from their song "Badge"  this when composing the Beatles song...

Go to Wikipedia, type in "Here Comes The Sun", it says:
Quote;
"The song, one of Harrison's best known Beatles contributions alongside "Something", ORIGINATED  from a Songwriting Collaboration between Harrison and close friend ERIC CLAPTON called "Badge"....it features a similar  Arpeggiated Guitar Riff on the Bridge section..."

the Link is:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/here_comes_the_sun

...or just go into wikipedia and type in the song's title...

During the writing of the song Harrison actually made a note to himself to BASE the Bridge of "Here Comes The Sun" directly on the Bridge from their co-written song "Badge"

check this Link:

http://www.answers.com/topic/here-comes-the-sun-vocal-classical-work

Further acknowledgement that Eric Clapton duly collaborated on "Here Comes The Sun" via "Badge"  can be found using this Link:

http:// www.musicouch.com/Genres/Rock/The-Beatles-George-Harrison-The-Silent-Beatle.543061

(Scroll down to "Here Comes the Sun" by the "Abbey Road" album cover photo)

with further mention of the Genesis of "Here Comes The Sun" at this Link:

 http://thebeatlescd.com/herecomesthesun.html

while on an Eric Clapton websites further mention is made on this link:

http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Eric_Clapton

On "Badge" George Harrison plays an Electric guitar "Chiming bell" style intro to the bridge section...written by George & Eric Clapton...that George made a note to himself of to RE-UTILISE in the intro to the bridge section of "Here Comes The Sun"....played on an Acoustic guitar by George just prior to the line: "Sun Sun Sun here it Comes"

If you listen to the two songs these gutair lines ARE very similar...

This ties in with what I heard George Harrison say in a 1976 Radio interview re how after he had come up with the main song walking around Eric's garden and watching the sun come up....Clapton & he then finalised the guitar parts together on their Acoustics....and Harrison later completed the song himself while on Holiday in Sardinia.

Eric Clapton COULD...if he had wanted to...have thus Legally  argued for a Co-Songwriting credit as George Harrison HAD openly made a NOTE to himself to duly INCLUDE  the Bridge section guitar lines from THEIR Co-written song "Badge" within "Here Comes The Sun".....however, as I remember George saying...WHEN he offered Eric a Co-writing credit...Eric flatly refused !


These various other websites...including Wikipedia ...all acknowledge the clear Link between "Here Comes the Sun" and Cream's song "Badge"....

I am NOT a Liar...and any  Beatle Historian with the most  basic knowledge...OUGHT to KNOW all this....yes ?
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Pegasus

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Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
« Reply #69 on: May 19, 2009, 09:04:45 AM »

Another point re Hendrix....

it was at the "Bag of Nails" club in London...and Clapton was already in Cream with Jack Bruce & Ginger Baker....whom he joined  from John Mayall's Bluesbreakers....thus John 'Mitch" Mitchell & Noel Redding were NOT about to "join Eric's Band" - as Eric's band was already together....Bruce & Baker from The Graham Bond Organisation were acknowledged as among the top British musicians in Sixties music at that time....Bruce had briefly been Bassist in Manfred Mann...playing on "Pretty Flamingo" (a UK Chart topper in 1966) just before they formed Cream...

at the "Bag of Nails" club Jimi Hendrix came onstage to jam with Cream....& played "Killing Floor" with the band !

Eric Clapton was not "Trying to hang out with the sixties crowd"...he was a famous part of it...Clapton was a well known figure in Britain  from being Guitarist with the Yardbirds from 1964-65 ....and then for the famous  "Bluesbreakers" album by John Mayall (known as the "Beano cover" album)  which had shot to the top three of the Album charts in Britain....Clapton was even given a seperate credit on the Album cover...
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pc31

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Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
« Reply #70 on: May 19, 2009, 11:51:35 AM »

there is only one guitar part on here comes the sun...it is for an accoustic...it may have arose ideally from previous endeavours but he didn't have anything directly to do with it,only indirectly....don't quote wiki..i can't accept that as a source..it is fallable..since our discussion or argument..i have been looking everywheres online for something to directly substantiate your claim but have not...the bridge on badge was georges' why shouldn't he be able to use it again?
the idea of collaberation seems to be lost on me because if you only gave a little help,i'd be damned if i'd share credit...music is a personal thing,i have known musicians that have songs that will never be published because they don't meet personal standards while others just put anything they have on the market...it is sad that when people pass on that things they would never have released get put out...based on what passes for collaberation gene vincent should get credit on badfingers baby blue then?
i refuse to discuss clapton much further because i am jaded by a multitude of things..i recently gained more respect for him with the george tribute he was a big part of but i still can't be considered a big fan of his...

Pegasus

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Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
« Reply #71 on: May 19, 2009, 03:51:00 PM »

The Bridge on "Badge" was Clapton's and Harrison's not just Harrison's....the song is Published by Dratleaf Music Ltd (Clapton) & Apple (Harrison)

Indeed George Harrison was on more than one occasion prone to "borrowing"..."If I Needed Someone" / "The Bells of Rhymney" (Byrds arrangement)

"Something" / James Taylor's "Something in The Way She Moves".....

and of course most famously: "My Sweet Lord" / "He's So Fine"....

Which George himself acknowledged with his jokey song "This Song"....

In fairness with "Badge" it was partly HIS song....and Look how many people have duly RIPPED OFF The Beatles !

Listen to "Dear Prudence"  guitar lines...then Pink Floyd's "Lunatic is on the Grass" (1973 - DSOTM) ....and 10c.c.'s "Feel The Benefit" guitar intro (on "Deceptive Bends" 1977) - sound familiar ?

While The Jam's riff on "Start"....compared to George's Riff on Taxman" ?

All the Links I listed back up what I said....whatever some may chose to believe...

Eric Clapton was the first "Name musician", as opposed to session men or orchestral players , (i.e. Andy White, Alan Civil etc)  to be specifically invited to play on a Beatles recording in 1968 on "While My Guitar Gently Weeps" ....

Eric Clapton, despite then being in a very bad way due to his drug problems, played Guitar for George Harrison at The Concert For Bangla Desh....supported John Lennon at "Live Peace in Toronto" ...and was the main force in helping Dhanni & Olivia Harrison to get everybody on board for "The Concert for George"


Songwriting Credits:
Regarding who takes credit on Songwriting...this varies tremendously....for example How MUCH did Lennon or McCartney contribute to each others songs after 1964...?

Was John Lennon really a co-writer on "Yesterday"...?  - yet his name appears first ...

Did Paul McCartney actually co-write "Give Peace A Chance"....? - per the "credits" YES ! - what do you think ?

How much did Norman Petty contribute to Buddy Holly songs for which he IS credited...?  - Nothing according to Holly's widow !

Mike Love of The Beach Boys won a Court case to INCLUDE his name on umpteen Brian Wilson songs he previously NEVER was credited on....

Matthew Fisher of Procol Harum WON a Court case to INCLUDE his name on "A Whiter Shade of Pale" credits - but then LOST it on Appeal....he lost only for leaving his claim so long...over 40 years....not for not being involved...

Brian Jones NEVER co-wrote Any Rolling Stones sixties songs "Officially" ...it was only ever Jagger-Richard (and the odd Bill Wyman song) ...yet how much do their songs up to 1968  really owe to Jones input....? - and how much has been so obviously "Missing" since 1968 in much of their later works...?

People can miss out on songwriting credits and Royalties for songs they WERE involved in....while others can get credits for songs they had NO input into whatsover...and very often it's a business thing.
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Pegasus

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Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
« Reply #72 on: May 19, 2009, 04:04:10 PM »

A guitar part can of course be BOTH for Acoustic & Electric guitar...not just one or the other...

For example The Shadows 1964 single "Genie With The Llight Brown Lamp" (1964) is an Electric guitar led instrumental....

However The Rare Mono version issued overseas was an Acoustic version of the number....with the Identical guitar melody...played on an Acoustic guitar.

George of course did an alternate Acoustic version of "While my Guitar Gently Weeps" (issued later on the "Anthology"), but preferred the Electric version, as played by Clapton, for release at the time of the "White Album".


while the gentler issued flowing version of "I'll Be Back" in 1964 began life as a Rockier Beat number....similarly "I'm Looking Through You" in 1965....compare the "Rubber Soul" & "Anthology" versions...

....as so too did  "Two Of Us" (Acoustic on the issued album "Let it Be"...but Electric in the film during the Abortive sessions...)
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Hombre_de_ningun_lugar

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Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
« Reply #73 on: May 19, 2009, 05:06:51 PM »

I always thought that the guitar on the bridge of "Here Comes The Sun" was very similar to the guitar on "Badge", but I think that's very little evidence to affirm that "Here Comes The Sun" was co-written with Eric Clapton.
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pc31

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Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
« Reply #74 on: May 19, 2009, 05:56:41 PM »

Quote from: 2092
that's strange as I heard George Harrison himself actually say that  Eric DID write it with him in a Radio One interview back in the Seventies....and Eric REFUSED then to then take a label credit
  
nothing you linked implies this directly...
all i find over and over is "Here Comes the Sun" was written on a beautiful spring day in 1969 when Mr. Harrison left the Beatles business office feeling frustrated by nitty-gritty accounting details.

He walked over to his friend Eric Clapton's house and strolled around the garden with a guitar in hand. The result was one of the most buoyantly joyful of his songs: "Little darling, it's been a long, cold, lonely winter/Little darling it feels like years since it's been here/Here comes the sun. Here comes the sun/And I say . . . It's alright."
look at this link john gets credit and he wasn't even there..http://www.beatleslyrics.eu/here-comes-sun.php
but the link says so,so it must be true!!!not!!! ;D

pc31

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pc31

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Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
« Reply #76 on: May 19, 2009, 06:40:54 PM »

i did learn something new about eric while searching...he was a bastard born out of wedlock...
it is mentioned on a few links...here is one http://www.electricguitarz.com/Eric-Clapton-Biography.html
thanks horseman... ;)

pc31

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Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
« Reply #77 on: May 19, 2009, 06:46:01 PM »

pc31

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Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
« Reply #78 on: May 19, 2009, 06:54:14 PM »

how about this dark hoarse was georges' nickname b4 the label was created....because of voice difficulties he had...

pc31

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Re: was lennon inspired by the kinks on abbey road
« Reply #79 on: May 19, 2009, 07:05:35 PM »

i found only one link maintaining eric was with george when it was written...a larry king interview....he didn't claim he helped at all tho...http://www.eric-clapton.co.uk/interviewsandarticles/larrykinglive2007.htm
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