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Author Topic: Anti-Americans  (Read 14294 times)

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Sondra

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Re: Anti-Americans
« Reply #160 on: November 08, 2008, 05:43:27 AM »

Quote from: 1620

For some Americans, yes--which is probably one of the reasons why people are in debt.  Some people just love their flashy cars, big flat-screen TV's and fancy cell phones, even if they can't really afford those things.  But this is not true for every American, of course.  It just depends on who you are and where your priorities lie.


Some people are in debt because of medical expenses or because they had to take out loans to fund their education or a million other reasons. It's not always because they needed a flashy car.
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An Apple Beatle

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Re: Anti-Americans
« Reply #161 on: November 08, 2008, 07:16:38 AM »

I reckon some of the stereotyping comes/came from shows such as the O.C. , Dallas, Dynasty, Sex & the City, Reality progs etc. Maybe that leaves impressions of a nation in peoples minds?

Not trying to get too serious. We got Coronation Street, Eastenders & Hollyoaks amongst our efforts in the UK.  ;D
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Sondra

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Re: Anti-Americans
« Reply #162 on: November 08, 2008, 07:33:46 AM »

Quote from: 15
I reckon some of the stereotyping comes/came from shows such as the O.C. , Dallas, Dynasty, Sex & the City, Reality progs etc. Maybe that leaves impressions of a nation in peoples minds?

Not trying to get too serious. We got Coronation Street, Eastenders & Hollyoaks amongst our efforts in the UK.  ;D

Who would base their opinions of a nation based on shows made for the sole purpose of entertainment? And there have been just as many shows depicting the working class over the years as well. If not more. So what, does that mean people only choose to focus on the negative portrayals then? Then I'd question the mentality going on if that's the case.

BTW, the shows you mentioned are so obviously exaggerated. I mean do the uber rich actually  have mud fights in fountains wearing their best sequence dresses and diamonds?  ??)
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An Apple Beatle

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Re: Anti-Americans
« Reply #163 on: November 08, 2008, 08:21:14 AM »

I think your missing the point. I'm just saying it must have a bearing (Some of the stereotyping). TV is still the main form of media in the world no? Especially the last 50/60 years. I'd say a lot of under 30's do base their opinions of a nation from TV. Sad but true.

Dallas & Dynasty were dated descriptions but at one time broadcast in almost as many languages as the bible. From youngster to oldster, TV is where a lot of opinion is formed subliminally or not I'm afraid to say.

They don't seem to franchise the American working class shows round the world though? I can't think of an example. I dunno..I'm only suggesting not implying. Obviously still grates you, so I'll say no more as I think we have been here before and I'm too fleeting to write comprehensive theorums on it all. It really dosn't bother me that much.
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An Apple Beatle

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Re: Anti-Americans
« Reply #164 on: November 08, 2008, 08:30:05 AM »

Actually, would My Name Is Earl be considered working class? I love that show.....I'll go on...Wonder Years (When I was a kid) Different Strokes, Cosby Show, The Fall Guy, The A-Team were all faves....Revealing my age more. heheheh

Not out to vex you or America Sandra, I obviously miss points too. :)
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Sondra

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Re: Anti-Americans
« Reply #165 on: November 08, 2008, 09:17:24 AM »

Quote from: 15
I think your missing the point. I'm just saying it must have a bearing (Some of the stereotyping). TV is still the main form of media in the world no? Especially the last 50/60 years. I'd say a lot of under 30's do base their opinions of a nation from TV. Sad but true.

Dallas & Dynasty were dated descriptions but at one time broadcast in almost as many languages as the bible. From youngster to oldster, TV is where a lot of opinion is formed subliminally or not I'm afraid to say.

They don't seem to franchise the American working class shows round the world though? I can't think of an example. I dunno..I'm only suggesting not implying. Obviously still grates you, so I'll say no more as I think we have been here before and I'm too fleeting to write comprehensive theorums on it all. It really dosn't bother me that much.
It  doesn't bother me. I enjoy discussing it because it gives me a better understanding of where people are coming from. And basically, I'm only giving my own point of view on things, so it's not like I believe whatever I say is complete fact. Just my take on things. I don't know, I enjoy these discussions, but people always seem to get annoyed so easily or think I'm annoyed or that I'm trying to aggravate them. Which I'm not! I just find this topic fascinating. That's all. Just trying to understand it. People can tell me to shut up if they want. I'll do whatever it is that pleases you...  ;)

BTW, I see your point about television tainting people's opinions of other cultures/countries. I know this happens. I just think the people who do form opinions based solely on tv shows are a bit ignorant and somewhat lazy. This goes for people of any country. It's the same thing as making sweeping generalizations about entire nations of people based on what others have told them instead of actual experiences with the people in question. I cannot TELL you how many times I have heard or read the sentence: Americans are fat and stupid and know nothing about other countries. Or something similar. Yeah, that does irk me. It's ignorant. I wonder how many Americans those people have actually interacted with. And they should look around at the people in their own backyard. Have they no fatties or dummies themselves?? I mean, to label and entire nation in such a way? And now it's the whole materialistic thing too? ALL humans have these flaws! That's the problem. We always want to separate ourselves when really we're all basically the same.

And while we're on the subject of historical ignorance, what up with that Churchill poll? Should I now believe all Brits are ignorant of their own history or should I take it with a grain of salt and realize that THE MEDIA SPINS! They're always going to run with the most sensationalized story and most of the time it's the least accurate. I hate those 24 hour bogus news channels and newspapers that dabble in entertainment news. They've really poisoned a lot of people. Again, this is just my opinion. I'll shut up now.  :B

Report: 1 in 4 Britons Think Winston Churchill Never Existed
Daily Mail | 2-4-08 | Rebecca Camber

One in four Britons don't believe wartime Prime Minister Winston Churchill existed, according to a recent survey. Churchill is compared to Florence Nightingale and Sir Walter Raleigh, seen by many survey respondents as a mythical person, the London Daily Mail reported Monday. The survey, conducted with 3,000 respondents to test their general knowledge, reported other historical figures such as Indian leader Mahatma Gandhi, Cleopatra and the Duke of Wellington were made up for books and films, the Mail reported. The survey, by UKTV Gold, also found that Sherlock Holmes was a real person.
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An Apple Beatle

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Re: Anti-Americans
« Reply #166 on: November 08, 2008, 09:38:34 AM »

^ Heheh..well you disprove the fat & stupid theory yourself Sandra. ;)

That Daily Mail thing is hilarious! The only myth is the media myth. lol
Totally agree with you, I do keep thinking I'm winding you up when I don't mean to...and yes we are all the same.

Let's have a beer and talk Beatles instead. (beer) heheh
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DaveRam

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Re: Anti-Americans
« Reply #167 on: November 08, 2008, 10:06:22 AM »

Not many British people know Churchill's mother was an American .
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BlueMeanie

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Re: Anti-Americans
« Reply #168 on: November 08, 2008, 10:45:11 AM »

Quote from: 971
Not many British people know Churchill's mother was an American .

Even the national anthem is sung to an American tune.
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An Apple Beatle

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Re: Anti-Americans
« Reply #169 on: November 08, 2008, 11:16:39 AM »

Quote from: 483

Even the national anthem is sung to an American tune.

No! Not according to Wickipedia. It's ours...all ours! lol

It's so old, they have all forgotten where it originated.  ;D
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python

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Re: Anti-Americans
« Reply #170 on: November 08, 2008, 11:59:51 AM »

Well,I know who Churchill is.He was,in my opinion,a great leader in the War,but got elected out in the next election.The people didnt want a Tory  in any more and rightly so.And .Sherlock Holmes as a real person.That one made me laugh.
The National Anthem should be changed.Its all about the Queen,anyway.Jerusalem,would be better.
Time for Brit bashing now,is it?
Im not really a patriot as such,but dumbing us down,isnt really on.Im not a imperialist nor do I wish for a return to the days of the British Empire(as if it could happen,anyway).Im proud of my working class roots and I want the workers to stand together,no matter what country they live in.
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pc31

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Re: Anti-Americans
« Reply #171 on: November 08, 2008, 06:07:17 PM »

Quote from: 483

Even the national anthem is sung to an American tune.
rick is right it was yours first.......

alexis

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Re: Anti-Americans
« Reply #172 on: November 08, 2008, 06:45:54 PM »

Quote from: 284
rick is right it was yours first.......


Isn't ours (USA) based on an old British drinking tune?
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Re: Anti-Americans
« Reply #173 on: November 08, 2008, 08:02:52 PM »

Quote from: 216

Some people are in debt because of medical expenses or because they had to take out loans to fund their education or a million other reasons. It's not always because they needed a flashy car.

Yes, I do know that.  That is why in my post I said:  "For some Americans, yes--which is probably one of the reasons why people are in debt."  Not all debts come from frivolous spending.  I was just referring to people who continue to live beyond their means by wanting to "keep up with the Joneses."

 ;) ;)

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Sondra

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Re: Anti-Americans
« Reply #174 on: November 08, 2008, 08:14:51 PM »

Quote from: 1610
Well,I know who Churchill is.He was,in my opinion,a great leader in the War,but got elected out in the next election.The people didnt want a Tory  in any more and rightly so.And .Sherlock Holmes as a real person.That one made me laugh.
The National Anthem should be changed.Its all about the Queen,anyway.Jerusalem,would be better.
Time for Brit bashing now,is it?
.

I posted that article as an example of how the media can spin things. NOT to bash. Which I stated when I posted it. But I do notice that people don't get nearly as upset when articles against Americans are posted.

And the article is just silly. Who knows who they polled and if the people even answered accurately.  It wouldn't surprise me if some of the people purposely answered wrong just to mess with the pollsters for bothering to ask them such stupid questions in the first place. British humor you know. I mean just this sentence makes me suspect:

The survey, by UKTV Gold, also found that Sherlock Holmes was a real person.

I mean come on. That's hysterical.
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Sondra

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Re: Anti-Americans
« Reply #175 on: November 08, 2008, 08:16:00 PM »

Quote from: 1620

Yes, I do know that.  That is why in my post I said:  "For some Americans, yes--which is probably one of the reasons why people are in debt."  Not all debts come from frivolous spending.  I was just referring to people who continue to live beyond their means by wanting to "keep up with the Joneses."

 ;) ;)


Of course. And I was just adding to it just to clarify. Just trying to keep things fair.  :)
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Jane

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Re: Anti-Americans
« Reply #176 on: November 08, 2008, 10:28:42 PM »

Quote from: 216
It  doesn't bother me. I enjoy discussing it because it gives me a better understanding of where people are coming from. And basically, I'm only giving my own point of view on things, so it's not like I believe whatever I say is complete fact. Just my take on things. I don't know, I enjoy these discussions, but people always seem to get annoyed so easily or think I'm annoyed or that I'm trying to aggravate them. Which I'm not! I just find this topic fascinating. That's all. Just trying to understand it. People can tell me to shut up if they want. I'll do whatever it is that pleases you...  ;)

BTW, I see your point about television tainting people's opinions of other cultures/countries. I know this happens. I just think the people who do form opinions based solely on tv shows are a bit ignorant and somewhat lazy. This goes for people of any country. It's the same thing as making sweeping generalizations about entire nations of people based on what others have told them instead of actual experiences with the people in question. I cannot TELL you how many times I have heard or read the sentence: Americans are fat and stupid and know nothing about other countries. Or something similar. Yeah, that does irk me. It's ignorant. I wonder how many Americans those people have actually interacted with. And they should look around at the people in their own backyard. Have they no fatties or dummies themselves?? I mean, to label and entire nation in such a way? And now it's the whole materialistic thing too? ALL humans have these flaws! That's the problem. We always want to separate ourselves when really we're all basically the same.

And while we're on the subject of historical ignorance, what up with that Churchill poll? Should I now believe all Brits are ignorant of their own history or should I take it with a grain of salt and realize that THE MEDIA SPINS! They're always going to run with the most sensationalized story and most of the time it's the least accurate. I hate those 24 hour bogus news channels and newspapers that dabble in entertainment news. They've really poisoned a lot of people. Again, this is just my opinion. I'll shut up now.  :B

Report: 1 in 4 Britons Think Winston Churchill Never Existed
Daily Mail | 2-4-08 | Rebecca Camber

One in four Britons don't believe wartime Prime Minister Winston Churchill existed, according to a recent survey. Churchill is compared to Florence Nightingale and Sir Walter Raleigh, seen by many survey respondents as a mythical person, the London Daily Mail reported Monday. The survey, conducted with 3,000 respondents to test their general knowledge, reported other historical figures such as Indian leader Mahatma Gandhi, Cleopatra and the Duke of Wellington were made up for books and films, the Mail reported. The survey, by UKTV Gold, also found that Sherlock Holmes was a real person.

Sandra, the problem is that you take things too close to heart or too personally, and read between the lines something that is not there at all and get offended. (otherwise you wouldn`t have written - tell me to shut up...) Like when you were reading my posts. There`s nothing, just people`s interest and curiosity. Look, your reaction to posts is defensive and you flatly reject any minor kind of criticism even if it`s quite fair. All nations have drawbacks, and certainly there is something in their way of life that could be criticised. And my impression is that you think it`s your duty to fight back all the "attacks", but believe me nobody is attacking you or saying that there`s something wrong about the American people. Posters only give their vision of things. So don`t be sarcastic. But I can understand you, we are all so touchy.
The stereotype about Americans being fat is nearly justified, because nowhere in the world are there as many really fat people as in the USA. If you disagree with it, then tell me what other countries you have been to. My point is based on facts and reality, cause i`ve been to very many countries, Europe, Latin America and the USA itself (I can spesify it in more detail if you like). And I`ve seen with my own eyes many fat people walking the streets in America. Stupid? Well, there certainly aren`t more stupid people in the USA than in any other country. But ignorance maybe a reasonable point. The reason for that is geographical, being separated by the ocean from the rest of the world, especially Europe and Asia. American people are just not interested in what is going on across the Atlantic, it seems to them to be so far away, beyond reach. Besides the USA practised the policy of isolationism for a long time up to World War 2 (not now, when they are everywhere), so Americans are used to neglecting the old world in general. This doesn`t refer to educated cultured people, but unfortunately there are many not very educated ones. And stereotypes usually refer to ordinary, or rather, common people.
I think the situation with Britain is different. Since you talk about Britain. Britons and common Britons do know. I happened to speak to ordinary people in the shops for example or even in the streets when asking the way. They asked some nice questions, got interested, shared some ideas. A lot, by the way, complained about what was happening to the country.
Now about materialism. In other countries people are also materialistic. But in the USA it is considered to be a value, a virtue. Don`t get annoyed. Read the quote: "The achievement of material success is probably the most widely respected form of self-improvement in the USA. Many scholars believe that the nation`s Protestant heritage is largely responsible for bringing this about. The idea of mixing materialism and religion may seem contradictory; religion is considered to be concerned with spiritual matters, not material possessions...The belief in hard work in pursuit of material gain is often referred to as "the Protestant work ethic", or "the Puritan work ethic". American authors - L.Allan, L.Mouat. Do you agree with it? Is it connected with religion? Or maybe this striving has declined with the decline of religious beliefs? Very interesting.
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Sondra

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Re: Anti-Americans
« Reply #177 on: November 08, 2008, 11:01:33 PM »

Quote from: 1393

Sandra, the problem is that you take things too close to heart or too personally, and read between the lines something that is not there at all and get offended. (otherwise you wouldn`t have written - tell me to shut up...) Like when you were reading my posts. There`s nothing, just people`s interest and curiosity. Look, your reaction to posts is defensive and you flatly reject any minor kind of criticism even if it`s quite fair. All nations have drawbacks, and certainly there is something in their way of life that could be criticised. And my impression is that you think it`s your duty to fight back all the "attacks", but believe me nobody is attacking you or saying that there`s something wrong about the American people. Posters only give their vision of things. So don`t be sarcastic. But I can understand you, we are all so touchy.
The stereotype about Americans being fat is nearly justified, because nowhere in the world are there as many really fat people as in the USA. If you disagree with it, then tell me what other countries you have been to. My point is based on facts and reality, cause i`ve been to very many countries, Europe, Latin America and the USA itself (I can spesify it in more detail if you like). And I`ve seen with my own eyes many fat people walking the streets in America. Stupid? Well, there certainly aren`t more stupid people in the USA than in any other country. But ignorance maybe a reasonable point. The reason for that is geographical, being separated by the ocean from the rest of the world, especially Europe and Asia. American people are just not interested in what is going on across the Atlantic, it seems to them to be so far away, beyond reach. Besides the USA practised the policy of isolationism for a long time up to World War 2 (not now, when they are everywhere), so Americans are used to neglecting the old world in general. This doesn`t refer to educated cultured people, but unfortunately there are many not very educated ones. And stereotypes usually refer to ordinary, or rather, common people.
I think the situation with Britain is different. Since you talk about Britain. Britons and common Britons do know. I happened to speak to ordinary people in the shops for example or even in the streets when asking the way. They asked some nice questions, got interested, shared some ideas. A lot, by the way, complained about what was happening to the country.
Now about materialism. In other countries people are also materialistic. But in the USA it is considered to be a value, a virtue. Don`t get annoyed. Read the quote: "The achievement of material success is probably the most widely respected form of self-improvement in the USA. Many scholars believe that the nation`s Protestant heritage is largely responsible for bringing this about. The idea of mixing materialism and religion may seem contradictory; religion is considered to be concerned with spiritual matters, not material possessions...The belief in hard work in pursuit of material gain is often referred to as "the Protestant work ethic", or "the Puritan work ethic". American authors - L.Allan, L.Mouat. Do you agree with it? Is it connected with religion? Or maybe this striving has declined with the decline of religious beliefs? Very interesting.

You assume a lot. I've said a million times I'm not annoyed and I certainly don't take anything said here personally. I find it quite funny that people assume a person is upset just because they want to delve into a discussion and feel like presenting the other side. Wrong or right. Have you never participated in a heated debate? I enjoy it. Maybe you don't. But don't make assumptions that I am taking things personal or that I am upset. As you say, we both may be seeing things that aren't there. Once again, I'm not annoyed or defensive. Just posting my point of view. This is a public forum no?  I'm only playing devil's advocate. Too many people just go along with these stereotypes and never question them.  I'm questioning them. I also don't believe your statement that I "flatly reject any minor kind of criticism even if it`s quite fair." We've only been talking about very specific things which I am questioning not disagreeing with. I disagree with the BROAD generalizations. That's all. And you made a few. You also asked some questions which I chose to answer from my experiences as an American living in America. So because they didn't gel with what you were saying, I was not accepting criticism? I was only presenting my perspective on things. Sorry, I just didn't see it your way about the whole class and elitism thing.

I've criticized things about my country and its people from time to time, but it's done so much that, yeah, sometimes I go the opposite way. Just cuz I feel like keeping it fair and balanced. Maybe that's a school teacher thing. When I see just as many threads criticizing various other countries, I'll chill out. Equal opportunity bashing right?

Oh, and when I said tell me to shut up, I was joking.  ::) Hence the emoticons and reference to Paul and George's argument. ("whatever it is that pleases you..) Sorry you missed that and assumed I was angry or something. Even with the winking face which indicates: I'M JOKING. Ha ha.  ;) ;) ;)

And just because someone has traveled somewhere a couple of times doesn't make them an expert on the people in that country. It would depend where you went, who you happened to see and what your mind set was going in. I can talk to ten different Europeans and get ten different experiences on how they felt about America or anywhere else. It's subjective. We tend to see what we expect and ignore the rest. If I'm visiting England for instance, I'm not gonna be on the look out for fat people. I'm gonna be enjoying the culture. But I'm sure if I went there looking for all those fat Englishmen, I'd probably find a bunch. But whatever. That's a very typical response.

I'm done now though because at this point I'm just repeating myself. You may believe whatever you want and that's okay. I can see you've made up your mind and missed my point about most of us really being very similar at heart and that believing in and perpetuating stereotypes is basically the reason why people will never truly understand each other. There's already a wall going in. I'm really coming from a positive place here.


Here's how happy I am:

 :) :) :) ;D ;D :) :) ;D ;D :) :) :)

Okay?

And I'm sorry if you take that as sarcastic. Yeah, sometimes I am, but I can't help it. Us New York types are bread that way. (Another stereotype for ya.) Besides, I find nothing wrong with a little sarcasm, so I apologize, but I won't take  your advice there.
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pc31

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Re: Anti-Americans
« Reply #178 on: November 09, 2008, 04:05:23 AM »

Quote from: 568


Isn't ours (USA) based on an old British drinking tune?

sh*t there was confusion this morning...our national anthem is not like theirs.....at all...the song america is,you know my country tis of thee is just like their national anthem...the national anthem we sing is singular...written by mr francis scott key while imprisoned....
is this it????? http://www.hymnsite.com/lyrics/umh697.sht

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Re: Anti-Americans
« Reply #179 on: November 09, 2008, 04:08:43 AM »

catfight!!!pssst.......oh my but jane you do make this topic more interesting...keep it up please....lolindignant uppity new yawkers are use to being told to shove it....so just tell her already....
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