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Author Topic: Anti-Americans  (Read 14551 times)

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maninthequeue

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Re: Anti-Americans
« Reply #60 on: November 13, 2007, 03:30:08 PM »

Quote from: 483

Very true. Look no further than the unity showed by the people of London during The Blitz in WWII. Or the massive home support of the British Troops during the Faulklands conflict. People pull together when in conflict, and close ranks when under attack. It becomes a very patriotic time, for any nation, and any critisism is taken to heart. Such a mass outpouring of patriotism is often perceived as brashness and arrogance, and generally, Americans have been wrongly critisised in that department.

Britain suffers from two separate, but linked complexes; inferiority, and identity. The Empire is gone, Britain is not 'Great' anymore. We lost The War of Independence, and relied heavily on America to support us in two European Wars. In place of it's Empire, Britain now finds itself under the watchful eye of the EU. Something it has never really come to terms with, or for that matter, fully embraced. They fear they'll start to lose their identity if they change their currency to Euro's (the Danes are the same in this respect), drink half litres instead of pints, and travel in kilometres instead of miles. It doesn't want to let go of it's once great past, and rely on other nations, even in partnership.

America, on the other hand, is a confident, thriving, multi-cultural society. That it sometimes pushes it's weight a little too much is to be understood, not critisised. Should we ignore the plight of people in countries led by dictatoship? Should we really think that it's out of our hands, and none of our business? Maybe we should be thanking the most powerful nation on Earth for having the balls to try to do something about it.

Jealousy is a very bad thing, and the Brits have it in spadefulls when it comes to America. They seem to have forgotten what they were like in the past, and indeed seem to have no inkling as to how they are perceived by the rest of Europe. It's time some people grew up and realised that actually, we have a lot to thank America for.

As a Brit I think this is a great piece of analysis. However, we do know how we are perceived by the rest of Europe, especially every May when the Eurovision Song Contest occurs.  :)

However, the criticism that us Brits uses against America has often been interpreted as inclusive when it has been more specific.

For example we generally like America more when you have a Democrat as President largely due to their policies & ideologies being a lot more similar to ours in the UK.

However, a large percentage of our nation have a major problem when it comes to a Republican administration. We have a problem with their religious Christian right wing theological beliefs such as anti-abortion/birth control/sex education, anti-divorce, anti-Homosexuality, anti-Scientific viewpoint (such as stem cell research) on Creation and the origin of species. we have a problem with their laissez-faire screw the rest of the world with regards global warming and the impact that human activity clearly has on climate change by ignoring the Kyoto Protocols.

Whilst at the time of the (illegal) War in Iraq, 63% of Brits were against it. As a result of "Puppy" Blair following George "W" Bush into this dreadful war leading to the deaths of thousands of innocent people and a few thousands of the allies troops, it was to cost Tony Blair his Prime Ministership. Which is a great pity as his former Chancellor (Gordon Brown) has shown in his first few months as PM that he is not up to the job.

To many Brits we don't hate America, but we hate George W Bush and his administration especially Donald Rumsfeld, but hey like a bad/sick John Wayne Western film parody he was only finishing off his daddy's work.

Never mind if the Bush Administration really wanted to do something about the "War on Terror" then it should have been paying a far closer eye on the military dictatorship in Pakistan, but ignored the vastly increasing Al Qaeda involvement in Pakistan because they are an ally of the US of A. Plus if America are the good guys then what are you doing having a Guantanamo Bay which is something that belongs to Hitler's Nazi Germany of Stalin's Communist Russia?

Kevin

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Re: Anti-Americans
« Reply #61 on: November 13, 2007, 03:49:34 PM »

I can't understand how Brits can get sniffy about the US and Iraq. We are a democratic nation yet our troops have taken part in the invasion and occupation. We could have voted out "Puppet" Blair but we didn't. We are just as culpable as any american. He lied to us and still we sat back and waiting for him to choose his moment of departure. The war didn't cost him his job. Don't pretend Brits took some kind of morale stand that was beyond the americans. We are just as guilty.

In some ways Britains actions are worse, by participation we have given morale standing to the whole stupid affair. And for what? And maybe if you are  to liken Bush to Stalin or Hitler then you should liken Blair/Brown to Mussolini: the gulliable stooge to a real super powers ambitions, giving an air of respectability  to an underhanded interprise, trying to be a big boy but punching far above his weight.

It's hard to decide what shames me the most. Helping a big guy beat up a defenceless non threatening kid, or running away and abandon him the moment you think he might be loosing.

Brits didn't build Guantanamo Bay but we helped provide the environment in which it could be used. If we hadn't been the only nation to willingly fully support america no matter what it did, if america had had to stand alone, the place probably wouldn't exist.
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pc31

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Re: Anti-Americans
« Reply #62 on: November 16, 2007, 11:44:58 AM »

i think bush thought his iran war would bolster his image to americans but it failed....
it is a pity that crisis binds us further....

BlueMeanie

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Re: Anti-Americans
« Reply #63 on: November 16, 2007, 11:50:22 AM »

There has to be a case for Bush being the worst President ever, doesn't there? Fist of all he's the son of George Bush Snr. Second, he takes America into two wars it can't win - Iraq, and Afganistsan. And thirdly, the economy is going tits up. What else is left for him to ruin?
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Kevin

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Re: Anti-Americans
« Reply #64 on: November 16, 2007, 12:06:03 PM »

Quote from: 483
There has to be a case for Bush being the worst President ever, doesn't there? Fist of all he's the son of George Bush Snr. Second, he takes America into two wars it can't win - Iraq, and Afganistsan. And thirdly, the economy is going tits up. What else is left for him to ruin?

Every night he and Blair must thank God* for 9/11. Without that they would have no excuse for their ill-advised attempts at foreign policy.
I can't single Bush out for any special stupidity award when Blair ( and therefore this country) has willingly been right beside him every step of the way.
And to be honest, it doesn't seem that long ago that Reagan was the warmongering-idiot-with-a-nuclear-arsenal that I was supposed to despise and ridicule. Now he's generally regarded as having won the Cold War.

* Or Mossad. Not sure how much "in the loop" these two are.

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BlueMeanie

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Re: Anti-Americans
« Reply #65 on: November 16, 2007, 12:32:58 PM »

Quote from: 185

Every night he and Blair must thank God* for 9/11. Without that they would have no excuse for their ill-advised attempts at foreign policy.
I can't single Bush out for any special stupidity award when Blair ( and therefore this country) has willingly been right beside him every step of the way.
 

True. It's very tiring being the American President's b****. I'm just glad I haven't had to live in England for most of Blairs' leadership.

I can't help thinking how utterly gutted the paid up, 'socialist worker' type Labour voter must be, 10 years on from the euphoria of that election win. New Labour, my arse. Never having been a Labour voter myself, half of me thinks it's hillarious, and the other half finds it quite sad.
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Kevin

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Re: Anti-Americans
« Reply #66 on: November 16, 2007, 12:45:17 PM »

Quote from: 483
I can't help thinking how utterly gutted the paid up, 'socialist worker' type Labour voter must be, 10 years on from the euphoria of that election win. New Labour, my arse. Never having been a Labour voter myself, half of me thinks it's hillarious, and the other half finds it quite sad.

I feel your pain.
Personally, I do get some warped pleasure everytime (and anywhere)  the Left gets in to power and  becomes the same power-crazy clique-ridden control freaks they've spent their whole lives villifying to half empty community halls or the odd passer-by who stopped because they thought they were selling poppies.
At least The Right is honest.
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BlueMeanie

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Re: Anti-Americans
« Reply #67 on: November 16, 2007, 12:57:50 PM »

Quote from: 185
At least The Right is honest.

Well that's a sweeping statement that we'll save for another time! But yes, the right actually say what yhey're going to do, and attempt to do it. The left has always been full of empty, unrealistic, daydreamlike promises that they know they can't fulfill. The Labour party only got the votes because New Labour stands for Liberal Democrat. Indeed, there is no reason for the Lib Dem's to exist anymore.
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harihead

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Re: Anti-Americans
« Reply #68 on: November 16, 2007, 05:21:39 PM »

Quote from: 483
There has to be a case for Bush being the worst President ever, doesn't there? Fist of all he's the son of George Bush Snr. Second, he takes America into two wars it can't win - Iraq, and Afganistsan. And thirdly, the economy is going tits up. What else is left for him to ruin?
Don't forget our civil liberties! The current administration has done more to savage our rights and screw up the Constitution than any other. Yes, the race to make the President a dictator started before this administration, but our Congress is doing everything in its power to accelerate the process. The balance between the 3 branches of government is all caflooey. The President can't be a major dick on his own. The American people allowed that to happen by letting Congress be the self-centered weiners they mostly turn out to be. (Even my favorite Congressman joined the Dark Side so he can get into the Senate, wah!)

So the President can spy on the American people and toss people in jail without charge for as long as he wants, and the American people say, "More! Take away my right to protest, too! Because if I say anything against the President, I must be un-American!" When this administration is the least American thing to come down the pike since the Confederate States said, "We're leaving." At least they were up front about it.
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harihead

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Re: Anti-Americans
« Reply #69 on: November 16, 2007, 05:26:36 PM »

Now this is interesting. My post was just censored.
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Kevin

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Re: Anti-Americans
« Reply #70 on: November 16, 2007, 05:28:24 PM »

Quote from: 551
So the President can spy on the American people and toss people in jail without charge for as long as he wants, and the American people say, "More! Take away my right to protest, too! Because if I say anything against the President, I must be un-American!"

I think it's hard to judge whether in a hundred years from now history will regard the Bush administration as exceptionally stupid or amazingly clever.
The you-are-either-with-us-or-against-us thing was a stroke of genius. No room for doubters now. And to have an enemy that's some beardie foreign chap who only pops up in videos (and who lives in the most US-vital area in the world!) =  A+ effort. They couldn't have come up with a better opponent if they'd invented him themselves.
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BlueMeanie

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Re: Anti-Americans
« Reply #71 on: November 16, 2007, 05:31:45 PM »

Quote from: 185
They couldn't have come up with a better opponent if they'd invented him themselves.

Now there's a thought.
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Kevin

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Re: Anti-Americans
« Reply #72 on: November 16, 2007, 05:33:23 PM »

In Britain we've got a whole heap of new anti-terrorism laws. The government says we needn't worry because they won't effect "normal people."
At the last Labour Party Conference (Convention), a 60 plus grey-haired party member who was voicing his opinion was removed from the auditorium for heckling. He was kept from attending the rest of the conference by...you guessed it....the new anti-terrorism laws.
We are also now longer allowed to protest anywhere near Parliament. Too much media attention if you protest with Big Ben as a nice backdrop for the cameras I suppose.
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BlueMeanie

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Re: Anti-Americans
« Reply #73 on: November 16, 2007, 05:33:50 PM »

Quote from: 551
Now this is interesting. My post was just censored.

You can switch censorship off. 'Disable Censored Words' in Board settings, in your profile. Does that mean you've been spared our swearing in the past? We'll have to make up for lost time! ;D
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BlueMeanie

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Re: Anti-Americans
« Reply #74 on: November 16, 2007, 05:36:28 PM »

Quote from: 551
Now this is interesting. My post was just censored.

You can switch censorship off. 'Disable Censored Words' in Board settings, in your profile. Does that mean you've been spared our swearing in the past? We'll have to make up for lost time! ;D
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Kevin

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Re: Anti-Americans
« Reply #75 on: November 16, 2007, 05:43:00 PM »

Quote from: 551
Now this is interesting. My post was just censored.

Might have been me. I'm not used to being able to modify other peoples post, and more than once I've hit "modify" instead of "quote."
And I generally abbreviate the quotes to the bit that's relevant to my own post.
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harihead

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Re: Anti-Americans
« Reply #76 on: November 16, 2007, 05:50:14 PM »

Oh, good grief. Okay, I'll fix the profile. And here I just thought you all were reasonably well-spoken people! Boy, is the bloom off the rose bush! (Actually, it shows that I only swear when I'm mad. I knew I should never get into a political discussion here.)

Since I am, Kevin, we have the same thing here. Bush crowds are hand-picked (yes, you may now use the Hitler salute). Every once in a while a human with dissenting views makes it through security and asks all those questions the press aren't allowed to ask because they'll lose their jobs. Media censorship is a _fact_ in this country. (I work in media; I know.) Anyway, this guy or gal will get through, speak their peace, and be celebrated on YouTube for a few days after they're carted out. But what the rest of the world must see is happy Americans just loving this amazing dangerously unbalanced dickweed of a protodictator. (Let's see if your censorship program flags that.)
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harihead

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Re: Anti-Americans
« Reply #77 on: November 16, 2007, 05:57:44 PM »

Quote from: 185
Might have been me. I'm not used to being able to modify other peoples post, and more than once I've hit "modify" instead of "quote."
And I generally abbreviate the quotes to the bit that's relevant to my own post.

Now I'm puzzled. The Censorship option _is_ off (clear). Kevin, did you change my words? What I tried to say is that The President can't be a major dick on his own. That's D-I-C-K (in case I get censored again.)

What it now says is "The President can't be a major private on his own."

I tried to edit the post for a missing word right after and couldn't. So who was revising this? The site? Kevin? An American toady cleaning up my post for the President?

Are we all clear what  I called our anti-social diagnosible absolutely impeachable creep that for some unfathomable reason (read that as "stolen election") got elected to the highest office in the land and is now doing his best to dismantle was used to be the greatest Democratic Republic on the planet? Are we clear where I stand on this?
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All you've got to do is choose love.  That's how I live it now.  I learned a long time ago, I can feed the birds in my garden.  I can't feed them all. -- Ringo Starr, Rolling Stone magazine, May 2007<br />

BlueMeanie

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Re: Anti-Americans
« Reply #78 on: November 16, 2007, 08:17:16 PM »

Quote from: 551
Are we all clear what  I called our anti-social diagnosible absolutely impeachable creep that for some unfathomable reason (read that as "stolen election") got elected to the highest office in the land and is now doing his best to dismantle was used to be the greatest Democratic Republic on the planet? Are we clear where I stand on this?

I think I understand. ;D
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Sondra

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Re: Anti-Americans
« Reply #79 on: November 16, 2007, 08:27:54 PM »

Quote from: 551

Now I'm puzzled. The Censorship option _is_ off (clear). Kevin, did you change my words? What I tried to say is that The President can't be a major dick on his own. That's D-I-C-K (in case I get censored again.)

What it now says is "The President can't be a major private on his own."

I tried to edit the post for a missing word right after and couldn't. So who was revising this? The site? Kevin? An American toady cleaning up my post for the President?

Are we all clear what  I called our anti-social diagnosible absolutely impeachable creep that for some unfathomable reason (read that as "stolen election") got elected to the highest office in the land and is now doing his best to dismantle was used to be the greatest Democratic Republic on the planet? Are we clear where I stand on this?

For some reason d i c k always comes out as private. As in private part. So no need for paranoia. Censored or not I really find it hard to follow what your logic is. I'm not being an ass, I guess I'm just stupid. But then I do get turned off when names like Hitler are bandied about so lightly.
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