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Author Topic: 1966: The Contradiction  (Read 4876 times)

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aspinall_lover

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Re: 1966: The Contradiction
« Reply #40 on: September 17, 2008, 07:10:54 PM »

I've read all post here and agree with most things.  The Beatles started with Rubber Soul and then did Revolver, as George said, "they could be volume 1 and volume 2".........and these songs were gettng more sophisticated, not along the lines of "She Loves You" and "I Wanna Hold your Hand".  They did singles, "Paperback Writer" and "Rain" which wasn't anything like their earlier work.  And then the scene in London was changing.  You had groups like Pink Floyd up and coming, Cream just a year away, Hendrix around the corner............and all that "trippy" club scene then.
I think the Beatles wanted to kinda get into that "groove", but I think Brian Epstein still wanted to "run the show" as several years before.
I know the Beatles got to the point where they hated touring.  I mean, they go to all these countries and NEVER got to see anything but an airplane, back of a limo, hotel room, back stage, on stage and that all over again.  That's not a life to enjoy by no means.  Then of course, they couldn't hear what they were playing on stage.  Like what was stated earlier, the "Jesus thing", the "Manilla mayhem" was just the icing on the cake.  They were tired, hated doing all those "lovey-dovey" songs and wanted to spend more time in the studio experimenting with sounds and instruments.  
So as a long re-hash of all of this, 1966 was a turning point in the Beatles' saga.  And MHO......if they kept touring like they did, there would be no Sgt. Pepper.  They wouldn't have had time for work needed on the album.  Brian would have kept them going like the loveable "mop-tops".  The Beatles were getting older and wiser and wanted something different.
These are just my thoughts and opinions.............and info I gathered from the many books I've read on them......
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dcowboys107

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Re: 1966: The Contradiction
« Reply #41 on: September 17, 2008, 08:05:45 PM »

Quote
Here's a possible set list:

First Half:

Paperback Writer
And Your Bird Can Sing
The Word
If I Needed Someone
Norwegian Wood
For No One
I'm Only Sleeping
I'm Looking Through You
Dr. Robert
Rain
Drive My Car


Second Half

Strawberry Fields Forever
Sgt. Pepper (Entire Album)


Encore

Penny Lane
Love You To
Tomorrow Never Knows

I'm not sure their voices could handle the strain of that many songs. If you listen to their Bukodan concert it seems (especially George on "If I Needed Someone") that their voices were pretty beat.  I would stay with Rubber Soul and Revolver session tracks.
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The Swine

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Re: 1966: The Contradiction
« Reply #42 on: November 19, 2008, 08:32:08 AM »

if there had not been a turning point they would have ended up like the rolling stones
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mysterymagic

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Re: 1966: The Contradiction
« Reply #43 on: November 19, 2008, 04:10:14 PM »

Quote from: 748
if there had not been a turning point they would have ended up like the rolling stones


I would say the stones progressed brilliantly as the beatles broke apart.  Sure they burned out eventually but the early 70's live shows were top notch imo.

While I agree that the beatles needed a break from the touring they should have definetly gave it another go after the mania died down.  I agree that they just became lazy and sick of one another.  I really think if they had gotten out of the studio and tightened up a live show it could have been spectacular!  And who knows, it could have revitalized them as a group.
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BlueMeanie

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Re: 1966: The Contradiction
« Reply #44 on: November 19, 2008, 06:58:33 PM »

Quote from: 1349

I would say the stones progressed brilliantly as the beatles broke apart.  Sure they burned out eventually but the early 70's live shows were top notch imo.


I've seldom read such rubbish. The Stones were awful live.
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mysterymagic

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Re: 1966: The Contradiction
« Reply #45 on: November 19, 2008, 07:11:33 PM »

Quote from: 483

I've seldom read such rubbish. The Stones were awful live.

Ouch.  Sorry, BlueMeanie but I think there live shows were very good, especially 71-73.
Just my opinion.

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ShesCominDownFastYesSheIs

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Re: 1966: The Contradiction
« Reply #46 on: November 19, 2008, 07:44:06 PM »

I gotta say that I've always been critical of the Beatles choosing not to play Revolver songs on their 1966 tour. Obviously songs like Love You To and Tomorrow Never Knows couldn't be performed live. Perhaps Yellow Submarine and Eleanor Rigby could have been reworked for a live performance....but I'm not sure that would have sounded too good. But I don't see why they never attempted tunes like Taxman, She Said She Said,  Here There and Everywhere, or And Your Bird Can Sing live.
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Geoff

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Re: 1966: The Contradiction
« Reply #47 on: November 20, 2008, 04:08:39 AM »

Quote from: 1349
I would say the stones progressed brilliantly as the beatles broke apart.  Sure they burned out eventually but the early 70's live shows were top notch imo.

I think that the Stones' '72 tour was extensively recorded and that a live album drawn from it was planned. I'd be very interested to hear that and compare it with 1970's Ya-Ya's and 1977's Love You Live.  :)

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adamzero

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Re: 1966: The Contradiction
« Reply #48 on: November 20, 2008, 04:38:23 AM »

Quote from: 1349

Ouch.  Sorry, BlueMeanie but I think there live shows were very good, especially 71-73.
Just my opinion.


I agree.  The STP tour of '72 may have started out rough, but was one of their best ever.  Get Yer Ya-Yas Out from '70 has also been called one of the best live albums ever (by no less than Lester Bangs).  I think the addition of Mick Taylor and Bobby Keys gave them a pretty strong instrumental line-up.  After Mick and Bobby left, I think they fell off in the mid to late 70s (e.g., Love You Live--a needless document, not to mention every other Stones live album since).  

I still go back to my original statement.  I think John's voice/personality/guitar "charged" the Beatles.  The bass/drums were important, but they followed where Johnny led.  Ringo was not Mitch Mitchell or Keith Moon or John Bonham.  Paul's bass was important--particularly in the studio.  But live he didn't (or couldn't) play the bass parts of songs like "Paperback Writer" (I think the bass part is as difficult to sing and play, as the harmony singing).  Just a thought.
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An Apple Beatle

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Re: 1966: The Contradiction
« Reply #49 on: November 20, 2008, 11:44:58 AM »

Quote from: 9
Paul's bass was important--particularly in the studio.  But live he didn't (or couldn't) play the bass parts of songs like "Paperback Writer" (I think the bass part is as difficult to sing and play, as the harmony singing).  Just a thought.

I'd say Paul has harder tunes than this to sing and play bass on (e.g And Your Bird Can Sing, 2nd verse of Taxman), though admittedly most would be post-touring Beatle tunes. (E.g Penny Lane, Getting Better). With Paperback Writer, they greatly compromised their large vocal harmony live, as none of them would be able to re-create that studio layered vocal effect. Most of the time, Paul's bass would have been recorded whilst he was not singing, allowing for more trickery and phrasing than he could muster when also vocalizing. The Poly-rhythms start to get in the way. lol
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Kevin

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Re: 1966: The Contradiction
« Reply #50 on: November 20, 2008, 11:59:12 AM »

Quote from: 1349


I would say the stones progressed brilliantly as the beatles broke apart.  

I would go with that. I'd even say by 69 they were the better band, with a distinctive sound and far more relevant to the yoof of the day. From Beggars banquet to Exile On Main street tthey were the greatest band in the world.
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Kevin

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Re: 1966: The Contradiction
« Reply #51 on: November 20, 2008, 12:05:43 PM »

Re The Beatles live thing - it shows what an irrelevance (in the terms of modern concerts anyway) their gigs had become. It was do your 20 minutes and run. Quite a few bands had to cope with the inferior gear and screaming girls. The Who were determined to be heard and co-invented larger amps. The Stones came back and the audience seems to have changed, or at least grown up. It is sad that The beatles just surrendered.
I know the excuses they gave, but I've always thought that after seeing Dylan and Hendrix live they must have realised The Beatlemania game was very passe, rock was changing and they had to adapt or stop. Unfortunately they chose the latter.
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mysterymagic

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Re: 1966: The Contradiction
« Reply #52 on: November 20, 2008, 03:41:02 PM »

Quote from: 1161
I think that the Stones' '72 tour was extensively recorded and that a live album drawn from it was planned. I'd be very interested to hear that and compare it with 1970's Ya-Ya's and 1977's Love You Live.  :)


Geoff, and anyone else interested, try this on for size.  It is the best '72 STP boot I have come across(so far).  But be warned, when the files were converted for the download a break was added at the end of each track so they will have to be edited for seamless playback.  But the sound quality makes up for this inconvenience imo.

http://live-bootleg.blogspot.com/2007/03/rolling-stones-you-can-do-that-baby.html

Back to the original topic -sorry- I wish the Beatles had tried to adapt and go back to touring.  At least given it a good try.
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jjs

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Re: 1966: The Contradiction
« Reply #53 on: November 24, 2008, 06:21:25 PM »

According to the texts, By mid '68, Paul knew that not touring was part of the band's internal problems, and he wanted them to go out on the road again. John didn't want to. From the subtleties in everything I've read, the reason was that the tours just became all around bad experiences during Beatlemania. This is likely what bothered John and possibly George about touring. Paul was desperate to play live shows, and suggested a few alternatives to an all-out tour, which the others thought were unworkable (one of which was just showing up at colleges or small venues and playing, something Paul eventually did with Wings).

Imagine being suffocated by that out-of-control hysteria every day, culminating every night in a show where you can't even hear yourself play.  I don't think we can imagine how unpleasant such a thing might be.



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Modernjazz89

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Re: 1966: The Contradiction
« Reply #54 on: November 25, 2008, 04:20:49 PM »

The  hysteria got to them from what I hear. The  whole Beatles as popular as Jesus comment did not help. They wanted to concentrate on music and not deal with the hysteria. The Beatles musically were a lot more complicated than the Stones.   When experts marvel at how a song can contains passages in 4/4, 3/4, 5/4, etc., and "strange" modes like the mixolydian, Dorian and Lydian. The Beatles sense of adventure with melodies and chord progressions, The Beatles also expanded rock's view in terms of style and musical texture.
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