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Author Topic: John and Sgt. Pepper  (Read 4278 times)

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Beatles

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John and Sgt. Pepper
« on: April 05, 2008, 05:04:31 PM »

Hi guys I have a big question for you Beatle people who seem to know everything there is about the Beatles.

After Sgt. Pepper, how did John feel about Sgt Pepper?  Did he like it, love it or just kinda hate it?

 I know Paul dug it but Ive heard some different stuff from John. In interviews he never was particularly fond of its songs, and in Geoff Emerick's book it says John said to Paul that he thought Sgt Pepper was the biggest piece of Sh*t they ever made, but that was just to make him mad.  

Also, Who had a bigger part in the Making of Sgt. Pepper, Paul or John?
I think im goin for Paul, but I wanna know what you think.
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HeatherBoo

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Re: John and Sgt. Pepper
« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2008, 08:27:12 PM »

I am certainly no expert, but I think I remember reading somewhere that the concept of the album was mostly Paul's idea.  I don't really know how John felt about it.  Please correct me someone if I am wrong.  Was this about the time that Paul and John started having issues?
That album is known for being the best of the Beatles and maybe even of all time.  Never was one of my favorites though.
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Sgt. Pepper 45822

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Re: John and Sgt. Pepper
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2008, 12:24:08 AM »

I thought George Martin said that John had told him once that he would have re-done every song. I think I heard that on anthology dvd's, but I don't remember. Not too sure....
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Sondra

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Re: John and Sgt. Pepper
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2008, 01:14:33 AM »

I think John was starting to get into heavy drugs at this point, not feeling confident, was unhappy and really gave Paul a lot of control. I could be off on the drug thing, but remember how whacked out he looked at that promotion party?
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tkitna

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Re: John and Sgt. Pepper
« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2008, 02:49:31 AM »

I'm pretty sure John was onboard with the Sgt. Peppers concept and heavily involved (his song writing was in top form at the time), but he also had issues with LSD at the time. If I remember right, I think it was during some work on 'A Day In The Life' that John had a bad trip and ran to the rooftop of the studio to get away from everybody. I think Paul had to talk him down, but it didnt seem to hamper his creative process at the time. He was writing gems such as 'A Benefit For Mr. Kite', 'A Day In The Life', 'Strawberry Fields', and others.

He definately didnt alienate himself as they all did shortly after.

fendertele

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Re: John and Sgt. Pepper
« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2008, 03:01:50 AM »

Quote from: 373
I'm pretty sure John was onboard with the Sgt. Peppers concept and heavily involved (his song writing was in top form at the time), but he also had issues with LSD at the time. If I remember right, I think it was during some work on 'A Day In The Life' that John had a bad trip and ran to the rooftop of the studio to get away from everybody. I think Paul had to talk him down, but it didnt seem to hamper his creative process at the time. He was writing gems such as 'A Benefit For Mr. Kite', 'A Day In The Life', 'Strawberry Fields', and others.

He definetely didnt alienate himself as they all did shortly after.

i too also think that the sgt peppers and MMT period was when john was writing his best music, but i also think that although it was his best, he didn't enjoy writing this style of music and it was probably more writing to fit in with Macca's music and idea of how the album should sound ? more so than his favoured style, take Good Morning Good Morning it is very Macca.

im in a band were its not my usual style of playing very jam/strokes sounding and i usually write more bluesy/funky stuff but ive been told that my guitar playing on our songs is better than my own favoured stuff.

so maybe Lennon could have hated what others deemed some of his best work ? as it just wasnt hsi favoured style.
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PaulieBear

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Re: John and Sgt. Pepper
« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2008, 03:10:07 AM »

I remember reading somewhere that the whole band/ concept album was Paul's Idea. Even if Jon didn't like the album in my opinion Lucy in the Sky is one of the best. Good effort by both even if John didn't like it very much.
but not matter what it's one of my favorite albums.
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tkitna

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Re: John and Sgt. Pepper
« Reply #7 on: April 06, 2008, 03:22:25 AM »

Quote from: 758

i too also think that the sgt peppers and MMT period was when john was writing his best music, but i also think that although it was his best, he didn't enjoy writing this style of music and it was probably more writing to fit in with Macca's music and idea of how the album should sound ?


I dont know if I agree with this or not. First of all, what are we considering the style to be? Psychadelic? If so, I think that John was all about it. He was always more into that style than Paul ("Tomorrow Never Knows', 'She Said She Said', 'Strawberry Fields', 'I Am The Walrus'). Hell, i'll go as far as saying that Paul had issues writing that type of music. For an album that was psychadelic, Paul was still giving us 'When I'm 64' and 'She's Leaving Home'.

Can you better explain your point incase i'm missing something?

Geoff

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Re: John and Sgt. Pepper
« Reply #8 on: April 06, 2008, 03:27:48 AM »

You can probably find some John quotes about Sgt Pepper in Lennon Remembers or The Playboy Interviews With John Lennon and Yoko Ono for starters. Naturally I haven't got either with me here, but I think when he was asked which of The Beatles' albums he liked, John favored Rubber Soul, Revolver, Sgt Pepper, The Beatles and Please Please Me. The Sgt Pepper concept was very much Paul's idea, arrived at once the sessions were underway, and John said at least once that his own songs had nothing to do with that.

The Lennon Remembers interviews are (or were) available as podcasts on iTunes, and can probably be found on other sites as well.
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Beatles

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Re: John and Sgt. Pepper
« Reply #9 on: April 06, 2008, 03:42:14 AM »

Quote from: 373

I dont know if I agree with this or not. First of all, what are we considering the style to be? Psychadelic? If so, I think that John was all about it. He was always more into that style than Paul ("Tomorrow Never Knows', 'She Said She Said', 'Strawberry Fields', 'I Am The Walrus'). Hell, i'll go as far as saying that Paul had issues writing that type of music. For an album that was psychadelic, Paul was still giving us 'When I'm 64' and 'She's Leaving Home'.

Can you better explain your point incase i'm missing something?


You make a really good point, the thing is, the only ones Im on board for you is She said and I Am the walrus.  Tomorrow never know was written on backdrop of the tape loops that PAUL had made. Also, strawberry fields wasn't really written as somethin of psychadelia, I believe(feel free to correct me if Im wrong), cuz you know John only came in singing the song on guitar chords, and Im pretty sure that Paul came up with the opening sequence. Of course, that doesn't mean he arranged the whole song, only the sounds on SSF arent completely John and that obviously everyone had a say in the music.
 And another thing is that like you Sgt Pepper is well known as their psychadelic album, but the thing is, Paul actually has more songs on their than John, and if this is true and it is still the psychadelic album then Pauls stuff would also be considered in that vein.
(I Might very well be wrong)
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tkitna

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Re: John and Sgt. Pepper
« Reply #10 on: April 06, 2008, 07:38:44 AM »

Quote from: 937

You make a really good point, the thing is, the only ones Im on board for you is She said and I Am the walrus.  Tomorrow never know was written on backdrop of the tape loops that PAUL had made.

Yeah, its no secret that Paul dabbled with the tape loops first, but i'm sure it was Johns idea even if Paul supplied the loops. I'm sure George Martin had his hand in it also.

Quote
Also, strawberry fields wasn't really written as somethin of psychadelia, I believe(feel free to correct me if Im wrong), cuz you know John only came in singing the song on guitar chords, and Im pretty sure that Paul came up with the opening sequence. Of course, that doesn't mean he arranged the whole song, only the sounds on SSF arent completely John and that obviously everyone had a say in the music.

John also had the idea to add the layer of the organ on top of the guitar too. We all know how many takes this took with George Martins aid. I would think its only natural that he started off with the guitar as he was creating the song. Sure Paul had input, but in hindsight, do we consider 'Getting Better' a John song because he added the 'Cant get no worse' section to it?

Quote
And another thing is that like you Sgt Pepper is well known as their psychadelic album, but the thing is, Paul actually has more songs on their than John, and if this is true and it is still the psychadelic album then Pauls stuff would also be considered in that vein.
(I Might very well be wrong)

Paul has more songs on the album, but not more psychedelic songs.

1. Sgt. Peppers - Paul (Nothing more than a rocker except for maybe the added crowd noise. Starts the album off to set up the whole concept theme in which the album fails to deliver on)

2. With A Little Help From My Friends - Ringo (keeping with the concept that is lost immediately after. Paul probably wrote most of it, but i'm not sure off the top of my head. Not psychedelic.)

3. Lucy In The Sky With Diamonds - John (The epitome of psychedelic music)

4. Getting Better - Paul (pop/rock with a hint of psychadlia only due to the sitar)

5. Fixing A Hole - Paul (pop/rock again)

6. She's Leaving Home - Paul (adult contemporary)

7. Being For The Benefit Of Mr. Kite - John (another psychedelic number)

8. Within You Without You - George (His indian BS)

9. When I'm 64 - Paul (On the opposite side of the spectrum when psychadlia is mentioned. Cute tune written in the early days added because Pauls dad was turning 64. Lennon even said he could never dream about writing a song like this. Should have been left off the album as it sticks out like a sore thumb.)

10. Lovely Rita - Paul (Closest thing Paul offered to psychedlia on the album and its not. More of a pop tune although its my favorite on the record.)

11. Good Morning Good Morning - John (Quick paced pop/rock. The animals at the end doesnt garner a psychedelic tag to me.)

12. A Day In The Life - John (Somewhat psychedelic tune mostly in part to Johns ahhhh's. Dont let Al see this. Pauls middle section actually hampers the classification further.)

13. Reprise - Paul (Rocker that tries to recature the concept but it was to late as we all know.)

There we have it. Regardless of the collaborations, its clear to me that John had the psychedelic edge even with Paul having more songs. If 'Strawberry Fields' was added,,,,,,,,.

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Re: John and Sgt. Pepper
« Reply #11 on: April 06, 2008, 07:44:01 AM »

I Shall concede the point! ??)

yet I dont see how its seen as the psychadelic album if onlyt 3 out of 13 are like that
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tkitna

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Re: John and Sgt. Pepper
« Reply #12 on: April 06, 2008, 08:09:02 AM »

Quote from: 937
I Shall concede the point! ??)

yet I dont see how its seen as the psychadelic album if onlyt 3 out of 13 are like that

Dont concede. Everybody is entitled to thier own opinions and just because I offered mine doesnt mean that i'm even close to being right. Its all in good fun for the debate though.

I'm not sure how Peppers is viewed as a psychedelic album either if you really sit down and think about it, but yet it is.

Ehhh, somebody with a clearer mind than mine will step in and set me straight though.

DaveRam

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Re: John and Sgt. Pepper
« Reply #13 on: April 06, 2008, 09:29:37 AM »

I think the feel of Sgt. Pepper is totally psychadelic through out , it's a montage of drug infussed ideas "Lovely Rita " is just as trippy as "Lucy " .
A miss conception with drug taking is that your high as a kite all the time , my experience is that you go up and down one minute your in la la - land - with tangerine trees and marmalade skies and the next your sitting on a sofa with a sister or two , it's still all the same trip just different .
It's like a strange continuum of the bizzare and the mundane , i just think John was able to capture the high time , but Paul was equally able to capture the low time , in effect what both give us is the perfect psychadelic trip on Sgt. Pepper , there's a wondrous synergy to the album (smoking3)
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fendertele

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Re: John and Sgt. Pepper
« Reply #14 on: April 06, 2008, 01:13:52 PM »

Quote from: 373

Yeah, its no secret that Paul dabbled with the tape loops first, but i'm sure it was Johns idea even if Paul supplied the loops. I'm sure George Martin had his hand in it also.



John also had the idea to add the layer of the organ on top of the guitar too. We all know how many takes this took with George Martins aid. I would think its only natural that he started off with the guitar as he was creating the song. Sure Paul had input, but in hindsight, do we consider 'Getting Better' a John song because he added the 'Cant get no worse' section to it?

Paul has more songs on the album, but not more psychedelic songs.

1. Sgt. Peppers - Paul (Nothing more than a rocker except for maybe the added crowd noise. Starts the album off to set up the whole concept theme in which the album fails to deliver on)

2. With A Little Help From My Friends - Ringo (keeping with the concept that is lost immediately after. Paul probably wrote most of it, but i'm not sure off the top of my head. Not psychedelic.)

3. Lucy In The Sky With Diamonds - John (The epitome of psychedelic music)

4. Getting Better - Paul (pop/rock with a hint of psychadlia only due to the sitar)

5. Fixing A Hole - Paul (pop/rock again)

6. She's Leaving Home - Paul (adult contemporary)

7. Being For The Benefit Of Mr. Kite - John (another psychedelic number)

8. Within You Without You - George (His indian BS)

9. When I'm 64 - Paul (On the opposite side of the spectrum when psychadlia is mentioned. Cute tune written in the early days added because Pauls dad was turning 64. Lennon even said he could never dream about writing a song like this. Should have been left off the album as it sticks out like a sore thumb.)

10. Lovely Rita - Paul (Closest thing Paul offered to psychedlia on the album and its not. More of a pop tune although its my favorite on the record.)

11. Good Morning Good Morning - John (Quick paced pop/rock. The animals at the end doesnt garner a psychedelic tag to me.)

12. A Day In The Life - John (Somewhat psychedelic tune mostly in part to Johns ahhhh's. Dont let Al see this. Pauls middle section actually hampers the classification further.)

13. Reprise - Paul (Rocker that tries to recature the concept but it was to late as we all know.)

There we have it. Regardless of the collaborations, its clear to me that John had the psychedelic edge even with Paul having more songs. If 'Strawberry Fields' was added,,,,,,,,.


I totally agree i have never said that john never wrote the most psychadelic tunes, what i said was that his change of songwriting i felt was forced due to what Macca was coming out with and this led to him writing psychadelic tunes ( unintentionally).

I dont think he set out to write psychadelic music when he wrote these songs on his guitar, he maybe set out to write weird lyrics more to confuse the folks who were always trying to find meaning in them, but i reckon his psychadelic songs came from him trying to write in the Style of Macca and failing (good morning good morning) and also developing his own good style ( Strawberry fields, I am the Walrus, benifit of mr kite, LSD) and thats probably why when he looked back at Sgt Pepper he doesn't have much appreciation for it and his own contribution as its a album full of Macca songs and songs he wrote in the style of Macca ? .
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fendertele

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Re: John and Sgt. Pepper
« Reply #15 on: April 06, 2008, 01:21:51 PM »

Quote from: 971
I think the feel of Sgt. Pepper is totally psychadelic through out , it's a montage of drug infussed ideas "Lovely Rita " is just as trippy as "Lucy " .
A miss conception with drug taking is that your high as a kite all the time , my experience is that you go up and down one minute your in la la - land - with tangerine trees and marmalade skies and the next your sitting on a sofa with a sister or two , it's still all the same trip just different .
It's like a strange continuum of the bizzare and the mundane , i just think John was able to capture the high time , but Paul was equally able to capture the low time , in effect what both give us is the perfect psychadelic trip on Sgt. Pepper , there's a wondrous synergy to the album (smoking3)

its great that in the sober state they capture the opposite feelings usually with john covering the low and macca the ever optimistic, yet as youve said when theyre tripping the each cover the opposite, very interesting point :)
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Sgt. Pepper 45822

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Re: John and Sgt. Pepper
« Reply #16 on: April 06, 2008, 09:22:02 PM »

I agree with the thought that john was just trying to confuse people. I think he thought some people took his music too seriously, and were trying to find more meaning to it than there really was, so he started screwing around and made songs that were just weird and wanted to see what meaning people found in it. Just to mess with people's minds. I think its fantastic.
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Re: John and Sgt. Pepper
« Reply #17 on: April 07, 2008, 05:52:55 AM »

So then is it safe to say that a large portion of the psychadelicness (most likely not even close to a word) of Sgt Pepper isn't so much they trippy music but the trippy lyrics??
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ShesCominDownFastYesSheIs

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Re: John and Sgt. Pepper
« Reply #18 on: April 27, 2008, 10:40:41 PM »

Quote from: 937
Hi guys I have a big question for you Beatle people who seem to know everything there is about the Beatles.

After Sgt. Pepper, how did John feel about Sgt Pepper?  Did he like it, love it or just kinda hate it?

 I know Paul dug it but Ive heard some different stuff from John. In interviews he never was particularly fond of its songs, and in Geoff Emerick's book it says John said to Paul that he thought Sgt Pepper was the biggest piece of Sh*t they ever made, but that was just to make him mad.  

Also, Who had a bigger part in the Making of Sgt. Pepper, Paul or John?
I think im goin for Paul, but I wanna know what you think.

John hated it because he hated everything about the Beatles....at least he made it seem that way in his interviews.
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Re: John and Sgt. Pepper
« Reply #19 on: May 04, 2008, 04:04:09 AM »

You've got to take Lennon's interview opinions with a pinch of salt sometimes. For example, he often insisted in interviews that he was creatively dead until he teamed up with Yoko. Yes, that's right John, cause before you teamed up with Ms Ono, you were involved in such creative dead ends as Revolver, Sgt Pepper, Strawberry Fields Forever and that well known dud, I Am The Walrus. But after this great union, you gave the world such creative milestones as The Wedding Album and filming a fly.  ;D

A great man, but sometimes outside perspective is perhaps more reliable.
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