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Author Topic: John and Sgt. Pepper  (Read 4197 times)

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Sgt. Pepper 45822

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Re: John and Sgt. Pepper
« Reply #20 on: May 04, 2008, 04:16:11 AM »

True. I guess he changed styles after he met Yoko and considered the things he created in the other style crap. I guess I can see what he meant, but I completely disagree with it.
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harihead

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Re: John and Sgt. Pepper
« Reply #21 on: May 04, 2008, 07:01:17 PM »

Quote from: 1313
A great man, but sometimes outside perspective is perhaps more reliable.
Yes, very well put. John often liked to overstate or misstate something in an interview, just to make his point. So his statements, while colorful, do not necessarily reflect more than his mood of the moment.

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Geoff

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Re: John and Sgt. Pepper
« Reply #22 on: May 04, 2008, 07:55:07 PM »

Quote from: 551
Yes, very well put. John often liked to overstate or misstate something in an interview, just to make his point. So his statements, while colorful, do not necessarily reflect more than his mood of the moment.

Absolutely. John was also a natural iconoclast who liked upending people's assumptions about himself, The Beatles, and everything else. Remember this from "And Your Bird Can Sing?"

You say you've seen the seven wonders
And your bird is green
But you can't see me
you can't see me


That's John. He's probably talking about an affair he had or something like that, but those last two lines are a self description, and how he liked it, I think: You don't get me.

A lot of his post-Beatles declarations are also those of a man trying to separate himself from his own past and from a media-created image he had come to detest. The end of his marriage to Cynthia just might be an overlooked factor here as well, although of course by no means the whole story: it's startling how little she is mentioned (if at all) in his seventies interviews. You get the feeling that from about 1968 onward (the year his marriage broke up), John really wanted to recreate himself, personally and professionally, with the past firmly relegated to the status of unsatisfactory prologue. It's all John-and-Yoko, here and now; don't talk to me about Paul, Cynthia, or The Beatles. He's by no means the first person who's tried to do this, but he's one of the few who's had to try to pull it off in the full glare of the media with all of them wanting to know when he was going to go back to the very past (The Beatles) he was trying to rid himself of. Put that way, maybe it's not surprising how stark some of his statements were. :)
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MeAndMyMonkey

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Re: John and Sgt. Pepper
« Reply #23 on: May 05, 2008, 04:20:20 AM »

Quote from: 937
Also, Who had a bigger part in the Making of Sgt. Pepper, Paul or John?

I'm not sure about the rest of your questions but on this one I think it's quite clearly Paul. He was behind the initial idea and wrote a larger portion of songs (although John's contributions were great of course.) From everything I read Paul was much more into the whole concept of it.
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MeAndMyMonkey

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Re: John and Sgt. Pepper
« Reply #24 on: May 05, 2008, 04:23:12 AM »

Quote from: 937
So then is it safe to say that a large portion of the psychadelicness (most likely not even close to a word) of Sgt Pepper isn't so much they trippy music but the trippy lyrics??

No, I disagree with this entirely. The music/arrangements/production are all extremely psychedelic. People sometimes get the wrong idea of what that really means. But the music in the Sgt Pepper album is very imaginative. It causes the mind to wander in mysterious ways ;)
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ShesCominDownFastYesSheIs

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Re: John and Sgt. Pepper
« Reply #25 on: May 06, 2008, 07:31:13 PM »

Quote from: 1320

I'm not sure about the rest of your questions but on this one I think it's quite clearly Paul. He was behind the initial idea and wrote a larger portion of songs (although John's contributions were great of course.) From everything I read Paul was much more into the whole concept of it.

I agree, and not just for the concept stuff. John really only wrote 4 of the 13 songs (Lucy, Mr. Kite, Good Morning, A Day in the Life),  George had Within You Without You, leaving 8 of the songs written by Paul. I also think (but am not sure) that Paul had a lot to do with the orchestra arrangement on A Day in the Life. and though Paul's songs on the album are all great, Mr. Kite and Within You are my favorites.

Magical Mystery Tour is similar. of the six songs, only one is John's....but it's the album's masterpiece, I am the Walrus.
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Kevin

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Re: John and Sgt. Pepper
« Reply #26 on: May 07, 2008, 08:44:43 AM »

If we accept that the whole idea of Pepper was Macca's idea then he should be given credit as "The Man who saved The Beatles."
We all know 1966 had not been good for the band. Paperback Writer had been their worst performing single (in Beatle terms.) since Please Please Me. Worse, for the first time ever they were unable to follow it up with a ready made single and had to release album tracks as single.
Revolver was their worst performing album to date and had met with a lukewarm reception from fans. Again, unable for the first time to follow it up with their traditional second album, they had to release a greatest hits package instead.
Concert attendances were down. (44,000 at Shea in 66 compared to 56,000 in 65 - a drop of 20%) and the band had been forced off the road by adverse reactions and poor performances. Epstein was constantly having to issue denials that the band was falling apart.
Pepper reinvented The Beatles and saved their career. Without that magnificent high occurring just as everything seemed to be going wrong it's hard to imagine that they could have gone on for much longer.
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sewi

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Re: John and Sgt. Pepper
« Reply #27 on: May 07, 2008, 09:05:53 AM »

Quote from: 185
If we accept that the whole idea of Pepper was Macca's idea then he should be given credit as "The Man who saved The Beatles."
We all know 1966 had not been good for the band. Paperback Writer had been their worst performing single (in Beatle terms.) since Please Please Me. Worse, for the first time ever they were unable to follow it up with a ready made single and had to release album tracks as single.
Revolver was their worst performing album to date and had met with a lukewarm reception from fans. Again, unable for the first time to follow it up with their traditional second album, they had to release a greatest hits package instead.
Concert attendances were down. (44,000 at Shea in 66 compared to 56,000 in 65 - a drop of 20%) and the band had been forced off the road by adverse reactions and poor performances. Epstein was constantly having to issue denials that the band was falling apart.
Pepper reinvented The Beatles and saved their career. Without that magnificent high occurring just as everything seemed to be going wrong it's hard to imagine that they could have gone on for much longer.

They could be tired by that time:tours,recording sessions,movies... I am not sure but I think that they all thanked for the holidays they had that summer-autumn.They need them.After that they became The Beatles again.Some of their best songs were recorded the following year:Strawberry Fields Forever,Penny Lane,Lucy In The Sky,A Day In The Life,All You Need Is Love are all classics.Great post,Kevin.
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Kevin

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Re: John and Sgt. Pepper
« Reply #28 on: May 08, 2008, 09:35:51 AM »

Quote from: 564

They could be tired by that time:tours,recording sessions,movies... I am not sure but I think that they all thanked for the holidays they had that summer-autumn.They need them.After that they became The Beatles again.Some of their best songs were recorded the following year:Strawberry Fields Forever,Penny Lane,Lucy In The Sky,A Day In The Life,All You Need Is Love are all classics.Great post,Kevin.

Yes - in retrospect it all worked out fabulousy well. However I don't think that optimistic view would have held in autumn 1966. If they hadn't come up with the Pepper "concept" (that at least appeared to be revolutionary and new), but released just another Revolver-like album the future might not have been so rosy. Pepper reinvented The Beatles from cuddly moptops to hippy guru's. I don't think they would have achieved that feat if they had released a "normal" album, regardless of how good the songs might have been.
Just when they seemed to be imploding they released what many (not I) regard as the greatest album of all time, and one that completely changed the course of music. Perfect timing, and it seems thanks mostly to Paul.
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Bobber

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Re: John and Sgt. Pepper
« Reply #29 on: May 13, 2008, 08:08:26 AM »

That's an interesting point of view.
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bruno232

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Re: John and Sgt. Pepper
« Reply #30 on: May 20, 2008, 03:11:37 PM »

Quote from: 532

I agree, and not just for the concept stuff. John really only wrote 4 of the 13 songs (Lucy, Mr. Kite, Good Morning, A Day in the Life),  George had Within You Without You, leaving 8 of the songs written by Paul. I also think (but am not sure) that Paul had a lot to do with the orchestra arrangement on A Day in the Life. and though Paul's songs on the album are all great, Mr. Kite and Within You are my favorites.

Magical Mystery Tour is similar. of the six songs, only one is John's....but it's the album's masterpiece, I am the Walrus.

I don't agree on this one, on Sgt. Pepper's some songs are real collaborations. At the time Lennon thought it was the best they ever had done and even afterwards he described the sessions as a time when he and Paul "really worked together". Sgt. Pepper's, the reprise, when I"m 64, She's Leaving home, lovely rita and fixing a hole are Paul's songs, whereas with a little help from my friends, getting better and, especially, A day in the life are clear examples of collaboration. Being for the benefite of mr. kite, good morning good morning, lucy in the sky... are Lennon songs, which makes the opposition between "pure" Mc Cartney and "pure" Lennon songs 5:3 (I'm not counting the reprise as a separate song). Bear in mind that, if PL/SFF was on the album - as was intended - when i'm 64 and lovely rita would have been sacrificied, making the equation 4:4.
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Geoff

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Re: John and Sgt. Pepper
« Reply #31 on: May 20, 2008, 03:42:24 PM »

Have a look at Hunter Davies' The Beatles. He's got some reportage from one or two of the songwriting sessions for Sgt Pepper and maybe more as well. I think the book itself was written around the time of Pepper or shortly thereafter.
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Beatlemania31

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Re: John and Sgt. Pepper
« Reply #32 on: June 27, 2008, 06:09:01 AM »

According to Geoff Emerick, John hated it and said it was the worst piece of s h i t they'd ever made.
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roscoe

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Re: John and Sgt. Pepper
« Reply #33 on: June 03, 2009, 04:41:18 AM »

' Sgt Pepper is the biggest load of crap that we have ever done'-- John
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JimmyMcCullochFan

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Re: John and Sgt. Pepper
« Reply #34 on: June 03, 2009, 05:44:39 AM »

Link?
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roscoe

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Re: John and Sgt. Pepper
« Reply #35 on: June 03, 2009, 07:16:36 AM »

The quote is in either Emerick or Rec The Beatles.
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fendertele

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Re: John and Sgt. Pepper
« Reply #36 on: June 03, 2009, 11:55:02 AM »

lol we??
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