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Author Topic: Congrats California on legalising gay marriage!  (Read 7831 times)

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Joost

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Re: Congrats California on legalising gay marriage!
« Reply #60 on: July 03, 2008, 11:54:16 AM »

Quote from: 666
You are everything that is wrong with this world.

Let's try to stick to arguments and avoid personal attacks... I think's it's been a healthy discussion so far.
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legthi

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Re: Congrats California on legalising gay marriage!
« Reply #61 on: July 03, 2008, 11:58:04 AM »

Quote from: 56

Let's try to stick to arguments and avoid personal attacks... I think's it's been a healthy discussion so far.

Joost how can you say that, when what tkitna said could easily be interpreted as an insult or a personal attack towards me, or any other member of the board?? I can take that out of my post if you like, but that would not make us fair, and from you're comments I feel you probably even agree with me on this one.
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Joost

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Re: Congrats California on legalising gay marriage!
« Reply #62 on: July 03, 2008, 12:09:35 PM »

Quote from: 666
Joost how can you say that, when what tkitna said could easily be interpreted as an insult or a personal attack towards me, or any other member of the board?? I can take that out of my post if you like, but that would not make us fair, and from you're comments I feel you probably even agree with me on this one.

I obviously very strongly disagree with some of Tkitna's opinions. However, you can respect a person even if you don't respect his opinions. For as far as I can remember, Tkitna has never resorted to nasty personal attacks or petty name calling on this board, so I think he deserves a civilized discussion.
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Joost

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Re: Congrats California on legalising gay marriage!
« Reply #63 on: July 03, 2008, 12:11:41 PM »

Plus, I don't really feel like getting into the type of 'discussions' we used to have here when Wayne L was still around.
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legthi

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Re: Congrats California on legalising gay marriage!
« Reply #64 on: July 03, 2008, 12:25:52 PM »

I'd actually be less insulted if Tkitna did call me petty names, because then it wouldn't mean anything as he doesn't know me personally, - I may as well be anybody.
What he stated was actually far worse than this in my opinion, and I see it as a completely unnessecary attack, as he demonstrated in his post what he did when he encountered a homosexual. I'm sorry but that's really offensive. I believe there would be uproar if I said I do the same thing to black people in my home - this is really no different.             what he said was far worse than my comments.
Oh and just for the record, i'm not gay myself...just tolerant and sane ;)
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Joost

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Re: Congrats California on legalising gay marriage!
« Reply #65 on: July 03, 2008, 12:37:48 PM »

Quote from: 666
what he said was far worse than my comments.

No, what you said wasn't worse. But why make it personal? I'd rather keep this discussion substancial. Whenever you disagree with someone, isn't it more interesting to know what his reasons are than to just let him know that he's not making sense?
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DaveRam

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Re: Congrats California on legalising gay marriage!
« Reply #66 on: July 03, 2008, 12:38:00 PM »

This Liberal Christian is ok with what tkitna said , it's a view held by many , i just don't agree with it .
He's been honest .
He asked the gay person to leave his house , he did'nt kill them , which indicates to me he's not totally rabid .


(jumping)
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legthi

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Re: Congrats California on legalising gay marriage!
« Reply #67 on: July 03, 2008, 12:51:09 PM »

Yeah we all have freedom of speech and can speak our opinions, but tkitna can't dish out that rubbish all over the board and not expect someone to pick up on it, or try and get back at them for it. Ok I regret saying what I did about him (although I still believe it), even though it was no more personal than what he said. It wasn't! I'm trying not to make this personal, but thats hard to do when he demonstrates hate and discrimination in his post(s) that so clearly offends many people. I'm done with all the personal stuff, but my original points remain.

And daveram, I'm not a liberal christian myself so none of the religious stuff tkitna said applies to me, or even means anything. If someone wants to quote scriptures written by PEOPLE as 'proof' why something is wrong, fair enough, go ahead, but don't expect any of us to take it seriously.
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Joost

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Re: Congrats California on legalising gay marriage!
« Reply #68 on: July 03, 2008, 01:05:35 PM »

Quote from: 666
And daveram, I'm not a liberal christian myself

Of course you aren't, cause you're board member #666.  ;D
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DaveRam

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Re: Congrats California on legalising gay marriage!
« Reply #69 on: July 03, 2008, 01:57:27 PM »

This not so goody goody liberal christian as rolled a fat one  (smoking3) , i don't think people will ever agree on this one .
All i know is i'm not changing my view i love my gay friends (thumbsup)
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Joost

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Re: Congrats California on legalising gay marriage!
« Reply #70 on: July 03, 2008, 02:12:43 PM »

Quote from: 971
i love my gay friends (thumbsup)

And just how much do you love your gay friends, Dave?  ;D
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        




Sorry for that.  :B

Hey, it wasn't worse than the 'thumbs up' comment, right?

Right?  :P
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Sondra

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Re: Congrats California on legalising gay marriage!
« Reply #71 on: July 03, 2008, 03:22:28 PM »

Quote from: 373
Lets end this with a little bit of humor.

     


I really wanted to see what you thought about what I was trying to say in my post. I know it was long winded and boring, but I thought if we're going to use a certain book as a standard of belief than we should look at more than just one passage. What do you make of the rest of it? I mean, do you see my point as valid or not? And if not, why? I'm only just wondering. I mean, we can end the discussion and I understand, but I was just curious as to your thoughts. Which I will respect no matter what I personally feel myself.  :)
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An Apple Beatle

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Re: Congrats California on legalising gay marriage!
« Reply #72 on: July 03, 2008, 03:23:28 PM »

I think both Joost and Tkitna have handled their differences with dignity and at the same time presented views which can enlighten both sides. A lesson in itself to be had. :)
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Sondra

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Re: Congrats California on legalising gay marriage!
« Reply #73 on: July 03, 2008, 03:54:20 PM »

Quote from: 666

And daveram, I'm not a liberal christian myself so none of the religious stuff tkitna said applies to me, or even means anything. If someone wants to quote scriptures written by PEOPLE as 'proof' why something is wrong, fair enough, go ahead, but don't expect any of us to take it seriously.

This is where I think a lot of people fall short. Of course you don't have to believe in the bible or any religious work, but it behooves all of us to have an awareness of what people believe in and have some level of respect for it. To say people won't take it seriously is not the answer. How can a discussion ever be had or an agreement ever be made? I'm speaking globally here now.

"It is the duty of every cultured man or woman to read sympathetically the scriptures of the world. If we are to respect others' religions as we would have them respect our own, a friendly study of the world's religions is a sacred duty."-Gandhi

Anyway, I personally think this discussion has been very healthy and I'm glad to have been able to read everyone's comments.  :)
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tkitna

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Re: Congrats California on legalising gay marriage!
« Reply #74 on: July 03, 2008, 04:27:39 PM »

Quote from: 666
Yeah we all have freedom of speech and can speak our opinions, but tkitna can't dish out that rubbish all over the board and not expect someone to pick up on it, or try and get back at them for it. Ok I regret saying what I did about him (although I still believe it), even though it was no more personal than what he said. It wasn't! I'm trying not to make this personal, but thats hard to do when he demonstrates hate and discrimination in his post(s) that so clearly offends many people. I'm done with all the personal stuff, but my original points remain.

Hey Legthi, I apologize if I offended you (which is apparent). Actually, at the time of my story that I had posted earlier about asking that person to leave, it was more due to fear than hate and discrimination. I didnt know how to react and I didnt want my kids around it. Yes, I feel strongly about my stance and just like this thread, society also pushes me to change my thoughts. Why is that? Am I so wrong as to not to accept that lifestyle?

tkitna

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Re: Congrats California on legalising gay marriage!
« Reply #75 on: July 03, 2008, 04:43:30 PM »

Quote from: 216

I really wanted to see what you thought about what I was trying to say in my post. I know it was long winded and boring, but I thought if we're going to use a certain book as a standard of belief than we should look at more than just one passage. What do you make of the rest of it? I mean, do you see my point as valid or not? And if not, why? I'm only just wondering. I mean, we can end the discussion and I understand, but I was just curious as to your thoughts. Which I will respect no matter what I personally feel myself.  :)

Sandra, you brought up very valid points. As for my religious beliefs, I for some reason, have always taken the Old Testament as the actual meanings of God. I was taught that God, although an image of peace and love, was also stern to people who did not obey his will. The New Testament to me was always the teachings of Jesus who in turn took Gods lessons and (in another words) lightened them up. Meaning that people werent good enough to really follow the strict order that God commanded. As if they would fail regardless so Jesus added some loopholes in the rules. Even being Gods son, Jesus was allowed to be punished also, but alas, for our sins. I'm almost guaranteed to be wrong, but i've always felt deep down that it was better to follow Gods rules than the messengers even if it was Jesus, but thats my own personal ideal.  

DaveRam

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Re: Congrats California on legalising gay marriage!
« Reply #76 on: July 03, 2008, 04:53:22 PM »

Quote from: 56

And just how much do you love your gay friends, Dave?  ;D
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        




Sorry for that.  :B

I love them a lot Joost . I had three but Andy who was my best friend was batterd to death in January of 2000
A kinder more centle person you could'nt  wish to meet .
To this day i can't believe people can be so cruel .
He was a smashing bloke , he was a record collector  i met him at a record fair , he knew more about music than anyone i ever knew .
The sad thing is , these kind of discussion's always paint gay people as somekind of perverts . I just don't see that  , he liked  men , where as i like women .
It was his preference and i  won't judge anyone on that , all i know is i miss him as do his family and friends

He would have laughed at this discussion he thought we were the queer buggers and reading through this he was probably right
(smile)
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harihead

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Re: Congrats California on legalising gay marriage!
« Reply #77 on: July 03, 2008, 05:25:28 PM »

DaveRam, I'm so sorry to hear about your friend. I think many het people would be shocked by the number of gay people that are in their lives at this very moment and they don't know it-- decent, delightful people. I think the harm in denying they exist is the same harm in invalidating anyone for who they are, such as calling me dumb because I'm a woman (or any other male or female gender-bashing, or any racial epithet). These people are here and deserve to have the same ability to live their lives freely as people of another orientation. I only hope that, as people who are unused to the idea get more exposure to it, they will cease to be shocked and start to realize that gay people are just folks, same as them.  
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All you've got to do is choose love.  That's how I live it now.  I learned a long time ago, I can feed the birds in my garden.  I can't feed them all. -- Ringo Starr, Rolling Stone magazine, May 2007<br />

DaveRam

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Re: Congrats California on legalising gay marriage!
« Reply #78 on: July 03, 2008, 05:54:42 PM »

It was such a shock to lose a friend in that way harihead , i had some really great drunken times with him and boy could he drink .
(smile)
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Joost

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Re: Congrats California on legalising gay marriage!
« Reply #79 on: July 03, 2008, 05:58:27 PM »

Quote from: 373
Am I so wrong as to not to accept that lifestyle?

I think it depends on the way you 'don't accept' it. If you throw someone out of your house just because he's homosexual, than yes, I think that's wrong. Cause then you're treating him like he's some kind of lesser human being who's not worthy of being in your presence. If you really can't accept it, than a better way of 'not accepting it' could have been for instance saying something like "Look, I don't understand or approve of whatever it is you do in your bedroom and to be honest it makes me feel uncomfortable, so I would appreciate it if you could try to avoid confronting me with it and then we're cool". Some homosexuals probably wouldn't accept that because they don't want to keep hiding who they are, some others would probably appreciate your honesty and see it as a reasonable compromise.
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