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Author Topic: And I Love Her - 2nd chord  (Read 3562 times)

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fendertele

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Re: And I Love Her - 2nd chord
« Reply #20 on: March 08, 2009, 10:14:19 PM »

E6 only for the intro

then C#m for verse
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Pilzkopf

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Re: And I Love Her - 2nd chord
« Reply #21 on: March 08, 2009, 11:07:02 PM »

Quote from: 568

 I wonder if the middle eight was written a lot later, it seems more in line with typical pop chording...


It was written later, apparently. I say "apparently" because there is an early version on YouTube by the Quarrymen, recorded in 1960 in Paul's front room in Liverpool, which has a different middle eight. I don't know if he's given it the seal of authenticity, but I have to say it's pretty awful. It doesn't even sound much like him. If it is, then he must have become a much more polished singer in the following two years, and the Quarrymen's playing must have improved by the same amount. But judge for yourself.

zKrMXhl7dkQ


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alexis

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Re: And I Love Her - 2nd chord
« Reply #22 on: March 09, 2009, 01:12:49 AM »

Quote from: 1943

It was written later, apparently. I say "apparently" because there is an early version on YouTube by the Quarrymen, recorded in 1960 in Paul's front room in Liverpool, which has a different middle eight. I don't know if he's given it the seal of authenticity, but I have to say it's pretty awful. It doesn't even sound much like him. If it is, then he must have become a much more polished singer in the following two years, and the Quarrymen's playing must have improved by the same amount. But judge for yourself.

zKrMXhl7dkQ



Wow, that was incredible, thank you Pilz!

There's really so much to say about that recording:

1) They mixed up so many styles in one tune there (Rockabilly lead, pop guitar lick between verses, and of course the wistful song itself), "let's try this, and then let's try that, and maybe this will work well too" ... this was like the sonic equivalent of watching a top pedigree Golden Retreiver puppy,  all excited trying to run in 4 different directions at once - you know he's going to turn out a champ, but it's kind of funny watching him as he grows into that!

2) The middle eight - different, but you know, I think it has a lot of similarities ... starts on the IV anyway, can't tell if it goes to the iv (like the recorded version) or just to the V.

3) They were already comfortable with the "3 and out" song ending they used so much later on (like 8 Days a Week, and a zillion others).

4) Sounds like they recorded it about a 3rd or 4th below the final version, basically in the "John" vocal zone. Was Paul singing high stuff by then? (I kind of have it in the back of my head that he did Little Richard from basically the beginning ...?).

Thanks again for this, Pilz, I hadn't heard it before somehow. Great!
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Re: And I Love Her - 2nd chord
« Reply #23 on: March 09, 2009, 11:26:47 AM »

3. Magical Mystery Tour

Roll uuuuuuup......Roll up for the mystery tour...
E.....................G........................A

While the chord is still E, the vocals are bang on harmonically, with John (I think it's him) holding E. But when the G chord arrives he doesn't follow it. He stays put on E. Meantime John/George goes from Ab to A. But both E and A belong to the chord of Amaj, which hasn't arrived yet, and neither note belongs to G. It's a double discord, yet it's perfect. When Amaj finally arrives, it's as if it's been pulled into position by the vocals.
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alexis

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Re: And I Love Her - 2nd chord
« Reply #24 on: March 09, 2009, 03:16:24 PM »

Quote from: 1943
3. Magical Mystery Tour

Roll uuuuuuup......Roll up for the mystery tour...
E.....................G........................A

While the chord is still E, the vocals are bang on harmonically, with John (I think it's him) holding E. But when the G chord arrives he doesn't follow it. He stays put on E. Meantime John/George goes from Ab to A. But both E and A belong to the chord of Amaj, which hasn't arrived yet, and neither note belongs to G. It's a double discord, yet it's perfect. When Amaj finally arrives, it's as if it's been pulled into position by the vocals.

OK, great, thanks pilz, I'll listen when I get home (no youtube at work).

BTW - do they do this sort of thing in their 3 part harmony of "This Boy"? I've seen sheet music from a normally reliable transcriptionist or whatever they're called ("The Complete Beatles"), where it looks like they vocally anticipate or delay the notes from another chord, rather than the one that the guitars are playing. It was too hard for me to figure out the last time I looked, and frankly I didn't hear much of that listening to the recording. Do you have any thoughts or observations on that one?

Thanks!
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Re: And I Love Her - 2nd chord
« Reply #25 on: March 09, 2009, 06:30:04 PM »

I listened to This Boy again, not having heard it for a while. No, I didn't hear any of that. Of course there were a lot of mild discords, in the sense of there being maj 7ths in there, but nothing like the raucous discord of MMT. It struck me, though, that TB is the closest they got to reproducing the poppier American sounds of the late 50s. It reminds me a bit of Juliet by the Four Pennies (I know they were a British band, but they were borrowing that style too). It was the Beatles unbuttoned, waxing old-fashioned and sentimental.

Going back to MMT, I love the way they use A major as the pivot chord between the alternating sections. While still in E, it's the subdominant, but it's also the dominant of a different key, D. No matter how many times I've heard it, it always comes as a shock when they bounce off A major and hit that D chord, going right into not just a new key, but a new rhythm. It's logical but still hair-raising. Traaaang! ".....The magical mystery tour is coming to take you away".
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Re: And I Love Her - 2nd chord
« Reply #26 on: March 19, 2009, 05:42:32 PM »

Hey Pilzkopf...Nice having you around. I am useless at recognising the theory of chord relativity. I purely rely on my ear. Nice to read your accounts. :)
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Pilzkopf

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Re: And I Love Her - 2nd chord
« Reply #27 on: March 20, 2009, 07:14:34 PM »

^Well, I rely on my ear mostly, AppleBeatle. I have read a couple of books on harmony and counterpoint, etc, but quite a long time ago now. I rarely look at published guitar tabs or chords, because they're quite often wrong, especially on the internet. Training your ear is the best way, IMO. And Beatles is the best song pool to test yourself against. (And after them, Kate Bush.)
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Re: And I Love Her - 2nd chord
« Reply #28 on: March 20, 2009, 08:58:11 PM »

I got a Beatle duo gig coming up tomorrow night as it goes and just been learning some harmonies for Here Comes the Sun, Free As A Bird and Dear Prudence....PLenty to choose from but normally it's you take one line, I'll pick another.  They still deceive you off using the obvious, the subtle cheeky blighters. Fun, Fun, Fun, here we come. heheheh It's a grand pool indeed.  :)
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Pilzkopf

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Re: And I Love Her - 2nd chord
« Reply #29 on: March 20, 2009, 10:33:04 PM »

Well, blag your way through the bits you're not sure of by playing softer and singing louder. :K) Let us know how it goes.
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Re: And I Love Her - 2nd chord
« Reply #30 on: March 22, 2009, 12:58:13 PM »

It was good but a bit intimate (CAfe/restaurant - fully booked) so I couldnay crank up the PA. Still was fun though and got to play a lot more of the subdued numbers. After all our practise we forgot to do Here Comes The Sun....Scandalous. heheh

If they could alter the lighting a bit and make a better performers area it could be a nice regular Beatle gig. Lots of memorobilia to look at as you play which is refreshing.
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alexis

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Re: And I Love Her - 2nd chord
« Reply #31 on: March 22, 2009, 06:29:19 PM »

Hey Apple - Glad the gig went well! Next time, give the sedate diners a little pick me up - crank it to "11" and give them a little Helter Skelter or Revolution!

Something you said in a previous post caught my ear. You were talking about the Beatles harmonies, and you said "... They still deceive you off using the obvious, the subtle cheeky blighters...". Were saying something like, "Just when you think you've got them figured out they throw in a little unexpected twist ..."?

If so, which examples did you have in mind?

Thanks, Apple, I'm just a nut when it comes to the Beatles chords and harmonies, etc. (like it wasn't obvious, duh)!
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Re: And I Love Her - 2nd chord
« Reply #32 on: March 25, 2009, 12:24:38 PM »

Well...Baby's In Black springs straight to mind.  The words ' see's the mistake' that Macca sings is all the same note where naturally you would just follow the notes down.

I shall add to this as the lighbulb hits me....Gotta get back on with things for now. :)
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alexis

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Re: And I Love Her - 2nd chord
« Reply #33 on: May 16, 2009, 02:50:21 AM »

Quote from: 1943
Quote from: 568

OK, great, thanks pilz, I'll listen when I get home (no youtube at work).

BTW - do they do this sort of thing in their 3 part harmony of "This Boy"? I've seen sheet music from a normally reliable transcriptionist or whatever they're called ("The Complete Beatles"), where it looks like they vocally anticipate or delay the notes from another chord, rather than the one that the guitars are playing. It was too hard for me to figure out the last time I looked, and frankly I didn't hear much of that listening to the recording. Do you have any thoughts or observations on that one?

Thanks!
I listened to This Boy again, not having heard it for a while. No, I didn't hear any of that. Of course there were a lot of mild discords, in the sense of there being maj 7ths in there, but nothing like the raucous discord of MMT. It struck me, though, that TB is the closest they got to reproducing the poppier American sounds of the late 50s. It reminds me a bit of Juliet by the Four Pennies (I know they were a British band, but they were borrowing that style too). It was the Beatles unbuttoned, waxing old-fashioned and sentimental...


Hey Pilz, you still around  :)

I've been looking at this song closely lately, working on these harmonies hoping to get my band to sing this, and I think I can explain a little better what I meant about their voice chords not matching up with the instrument chords. It's really just in one spot, but it makes it hard to fake the song unless you really know what's going on:

"This boy, woudn't MIND the pain". The word  "MIND" is sung over an A(7) chord, but the three voices are singing a ... G chord  (John G/George B/Paul D)! I suppose one could call this an A11, but I don't know if that is the best way to describe it. You're right it's not as egregious a departure from the staid musical conventions of the more formally trained as some of their other songs (MMT!), but it still blows me away that these boys, barely out of their teens, can do that!
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Re: And I Love Her - 2nd chord
« Reply #34 on: May 17, 2009, 01:29:07 PM »

They are very good at keeping it varied and again I put this down to Hamburg days. It's also about them bends in the PAYEEAIN, SAAAAAYEEAME and the glorious ahhh's in the chorus. Hitting the MIND correct, launches right into it superbly. Lush chordal effect and always enjoy the rare moments of getting 3 of us to do it. Normally I perform it in the duo but it is quite rare nowadays for more of the upbeat numbers.
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Re: And I Love Her - 2nd chord
« Reply #35 on: May 17, 2009, 01:36:57 PM »

Another great decieving harmony then....


It's Getting Better All the Time. I would perform this song a lot more if the whole band could get this nailed. The 2 main lines in the I USED TO BE CRUEL section are amongst the best of Beatle harmony and still gets me everytime. Both lines are equally a joy...Would be happy singing either. Im waiting for the band to nail the 'I Can't Complain' bits as it's a mouthful trying to sing main and backing line. lol
One other line is getting a good  Better, better, beeeeeeter going...until then we do a cracking verse. heheh

Eleanor Rigby is another that people often get wrong and far more subtle than the ears first believe.

That's enough for today. heheh
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alexis

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Re: And I Love Her - 2nd chord
« Reply #36 on: May 17, 2009, 08:11:52 PM »

Love reading your posts, Apple. You clearly know what you speak about - keep it coming please!

I've toyed with the Eleanor Rigby harmony a bit (you mean the chorus, right?), but just in the car and such, I have noticed that I am never quite satisfied. You've peaked my interest - that may be my next project!
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Re: And I Love Her - 2nd chord
« Reply #37 on: September 18, 2009, 01:24:14 AM »

I listened to This Boy again, not having heard it for a while. No, I didn't hear any of that. Of course there were a lot of mild discords, in the sense of there being maj 7ths in there, but nothing like the raucous discord of MMT. It struck me, though, that TB is the closest they got to reproducing the poppier American sounds of the late 50s. It reminds me a bit of Juliet by the Four Pennies (I know they were a British band, but they were borrowing that style too). It was the Beatles unbuttoned, waxing old-fashioned and sentimental...



Hey Pilz, you still around  :)

I've been looking at this song closely lately, working on these harmonies hoping to get my band to sing this, and I think I can explain a little better what I meant about their voice chords not matching up with the instrument chords. It's really just in one spot, but it makes it hard to fake the song unless you really know what's going on:

"This boy, woudn't MIND the pain". The word  "MIND" is sung over an A(7) chord, but the three voices are singing a ... G chord  (John G/George B/Paul D)! I suppose one could call this an A11, but I don't know if that is the best way to describe it. You're right it's not as egregious a departure from the staid musical conventions of the more formally trained as some of their other songs (MMT!), but it still blows me away that these boys, barely out of their teens, can do that!

Sorry to reply so late. I took a sabbatical from all forums for a while. But I is back.

First, what key are you playing in? Projecting back from your A7, it sounds like D, but the reason I ask is that I went to look at tabs on the internet, and they're even worse than I remember. I went through half a dozen faulty versions, where it was obvious that each had blindly copied the mistakes of the others. And a couple were transposed into other keys. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but just to check - is it D?

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