A treasury and a place to meet people of all ages with various interests from all over the World
Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length

Author Topic: should the big 3 be bailed out?  (Read 1829 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

pc31

  • Special Member
  • Sun King
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 11717
  • WE SOUL OUR SOULS FOR ROCK AND ROLL!!!!
    • the moondogs
should the big 3 be bailed out?
« on: December 16, 2008, 04:19:15 AM »

wheres your head?

DaveRam

  • A Thousand Pages
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2894
Re: should the big 3 be bailed out?
« Reply #1 on: December 16, 2008, 11:43:24 AM »

I think yes but with strings attached , i don't think the motor car industry in America is very green , i would like to see them switch to more fuel efficent cars and that takes investment , so on this question i say yes .
Logged

Geoff

  • A Thousand Pages
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2133
  • One Thing I Can Tell You Is You Got To Be Free
Re: should the big 3 be bailed out?
« Reply #2 on: December 16, 2008, 01:09:58 PM »

Hands up anyone who owns a Big 3 vehicle?
Logged

HeyJude18

  • A Thousand Pages
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 2182
  • "Love and Peace are eternal" - John Lennon
    • le blog
Re: should the big 3 be bailed out?
« Reply #3 on: December 16, 2008, 01:35:53 PM »

My parents have a Dodge mini-van...  but my car's Toyota, and I love it though.  As someone who is planning on buying a car in a few years I don''t think that I would be inclined to buy one of the big three.  Before our Toyota we've only ever had domestic cars and my parents have had so many problems with them.  As for all of those that say that buying something other than the 3 will take jobs from North America, I just have to say that's so not true.  The new Toyota plant has opened and it definately created more jobs (unfortunately many more have been lost), not to mention it has increased the housing market in the area (with all the big-shots coming over).  I don't really have much more to say on the topic, I don't know much about the situation.
Logged

RAIN-ed on: July 17, 2010; STARR-strucked: July 23, 2010; PAUL-inated: August 8, 2010

pc31

  • Special Member
  • Sun King
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 11717
  • WE SOUL OUR SOULS FOR ROCK AND ROLL!!!!
    • the moondogs
Re: should the big 3 be bailed out?
« Reply #4 on: December 16, 2008, 02:33:40 PM »

i think they should have regulations on production numbers..as for a bail out ...i say no...let them fail,it gets me goat that stickers prices are so high....do they think we got that sort of money??why are they so high?

Bobber

  • Administrator
  • Sun King
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 13618
Re: should the big 3 be bailed out?
« Reply #5 on: December 16, 2008, 02:47:02 PM »

If the administration is helping out the big 3, why in the world would they not help a roofer for instance?
Logged

Bobber

  • Administrator
  • Sun King
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 13618
Re: should the big 3 be bailed out?
« Reply #6 on: December 16, 2008, 02:48:42 PM »

Or they should try to sell more records!

Logged

pc31

  • Special Member
  • Sun King
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 11717
  • WE SOUL OUR SOULS FOR ROCK AND ROLL!!!!
    • the moondogs
Re: should the big 3 be bailed out?
« Reply #7 on: December 16, 2008, 02:53:04 PM »

i can't believe they didn't see it coming....every year the prices go up......

alexis

  • A Thousand Pages
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1860
Re: should the big 3 be bailed out?
« Reply #8 on: December 16, 2008, 05:15:52 PM »

Quote from: 63
Or they should try to sell more records!



 ;D ;D ;D ;D

Logged
I love John,
I love Paul,
And George and Ringo,
I love them all!

Alexis

Bobber

  • Administrator
  • Sun King
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 13618
Re: should the big 3 be bailed out?
« Reply #9 on: December 17, 2008, 08:19:31 AM »

Quote from: 284
i can't believe they didn't see it coming....every year the prices go up......

They have been making profit after profit after profit for years and years. And now the money's all gone? I find that very hard to believe. I'm saving money for bad times. Why can't companies like this do that?
Logged

Geoff

  • A Thousand Pages
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2133
  • One Thing I Can Tell You Is You Got To Be Free
Re: should the big 3 be bailed out?
« Reply #10 on: December 18, 2008, 03:48:14 PM »

This would be a no-brainer at any other time, I think, but the question you have to ask is whether we can afford the dislocation involved in a Chapter 11 for the auto industry right now.



[size=18]Pan Am Dies, America Lives[/size]
By ROGER COHEN
Published: December 17, 2008 / New York Times

I used to live in Miami and fly Pan Am to South America to cover this and that: the fall of Pinochet, uprisings in Argentina, one gazillion percent inflation in Brazil. Lest we forget, things really have gotten better in the Americas.

But it
Logged

harihead

  • A Thousand Pages
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 2339
  • Keep spreading the love
Re: should the big 3 be bailed out?
« Reply #11 on: December 21, 2008, 03:35:00 PM »

Great question, and a tough one. My inclination is to say "no". We supposedly live in a capitalist country, until someone with enough power (paid-for Congressmen) gets into trouble, then we become socialist-- socializing the debt while keep profit private. I'm sick of it.

Yes, I understand right _now_ is a terrible time for the automakers. On the other hand, the union bears some responsibility. They've been protecting their way of doing business just as the head-in-the-sand execs, who wouldn't know an innovation if it roared past them like the jet Hitler didn't see the point of in WWII, continue to sell us tin cans that are worthless in all the developing markets of the world that don't have good roads. There _are_ alternatives to the horseless carriage dreamed up in another age.

I am sick of the rich being protected at the expense of the poor. I am furious at the condoned theft that allows execs to get away with being complete turds while poor people are put in jail for stealing $50, and made to work as slaves for corporations who now own the prisons and can now acquire labor for 80 cents a day. We have really gone too far already in the lack of social responsibility dept, and our society is disintegrating because of it.

Add to that the powerful American myth, "I'm my own man!" I'm independent, I don't need to care about anybody else and I can take care of myself, thank you! Such pride in isolation-- and the cost is personal relationships-- we live in a terribly lonely society where no one gets much support-- and it's simply not true. I think the Buddhists are on the right track with their belief that everyone and everything is connected.

I think the auto industry failing would be a terrible blow to America's already reeling economy. I'm still inclined to say, "So be it." We went down the wrong path, in my opinion. And we're all so complacent, even fearful. I don't think people will change until they realize they have a better role to play in society then building their personal fortress and putting their fingers in their ears.

Squishy enough post for you? :)
Logged
All you've got to do is choose love.  That's how I live it now.  I learned a long time ago, I can feed the birds in my garden.  I can't feed them all. -- Ringo Starr, Rolling Stone magazine, May 2007<br />

An Apple Beatle

  • That Means a Lot
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 5614
  • Be yourself, no matter what they say.
    • The studio
Re: should the big 3 be bailed out?
« Reply #12 on: December 21, 2008, 03:48:36 PM »

Let em collapse and bring on the hydro powered auto-industry, cutting carbon emmisions. Job done...Nice post H. :)
Logged
http://www.4sitemusic.com/studio
USE THE SEARCH FUNCTION ON THIS FORUM! CLICK HERE!

Geoff

  • A Thousand Pages
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2133
  • One Thing I Can Tell You Is You Got To Be Free
Re: should the big 3 be bailed out?
« Reply #13 on: December 21, 2008, 10:14:28 PM »

The Bush Administration has essentially kicked the ball down field to Obama, who will have to decide what to do about the auto industry in the spring, and I suspect the decision he makes then will be based more on an assessment of the overall state of the economy and what the collapse (controlled or otherwise) of the auto industry might mean for it at that time than it will the actual merits of salvaging the auto industry and any probability that the Big 3 can reform their corporate cultures so that they can eventually become competitive car makers again.
Logged

pc31

  • Special Member
  • Sun King
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 11717
  • WE SOUL OUR SOULS FOR ROCK AND ROLL!!!!
    • the moondogs
Re: should the big 3 be bailed out?
« Reply #14 on: December 23, 2008, 12:25:38 AM »

they shouldn't help them out...look at all the cars on the road not to mention the ones on lots already and in the junk yards...why can't we just repair them and drive what is already made???the cost of a brand new vehicle seems to be different than it was b4 you need a fist full of dollars to buy one...look at how long it takes to pay one off now adays compared to the late 60s.........why has the cost of living sky rocketed past my pay??????is every other country in this bad of shape??????will i ever own the 5 acres i live on free and clear???chances are no because i will still be paying land taxes...why am i being taxed on land i own?????didn't some people leave england to come here to escape too many taxes??????and now they tell us years later taxes are a reality with we must deal with....hippocrats every fecking one of them..us?for ged about it!!!

Bobber

  • Administrator
  • Sun King
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 13618
Re: should the big 3 be bailed out?
« Reply #15 on: December 23, 2008, 08:37:11 AM »

Quote from: 284
they shouldn't help them out...look at all the cars on the road not to mention the ones on lots already and in the junk yards...why can't we just repair them and drive what is already made???the cost of a brand new vehicle seems to be different than it was b4 you need a fist full of dollars to buy one...look at how long it takes to pay one off now adays compared to the late 60s.........why has the cost of living sky rocketed past my pay??????is every other country in this bad of shape??????will i ever own the 5 acres i live on free and clear???chances are no because i will still be paying land taxes...why am i being taxed on land i own?????didn't some people leave england to come here to escape too many taxes??????and now they tell us years later taxes are a reality with we must deal with....hippocrats every fecking one of them..us?for ged about it!!!

It happens all the time. There's loads of houses for sale, but still they're building new ones to keep the market alive. And companies like these have been making millions and millions of profits. Where has all that gone? Or am I just being plain stupid?
Logged

pc31

  • Special Member
  • Sun King
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 11717
  • WE SOUL OUR SOULS FOR ROCK AND ROLL!!!!
    • the moondogs
Re: should the big 3 be bailed out?
« Reply #16 on: December 24, 2008, 02:26:13 AM »

no...we are just sensible...and practical...

harihead

  • A Thousand Pages
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 2339
  • Keep spreading the love
Re: should the big 3 be bailed out?
« Reply #17 on: December 24, 2008, 05:05:48 AM »

Capitalism is based on "growth". It's sort of a pyramid scheme, actually. That's why they have to keep building new houses and cars. We don't like in a sustainable society, and there are no plans to make it into one. To me, capitalism is only valuable when it goes to finance something _real_. But we have such a system of tax breaks and incentives and subsidies, no one can sort it out anymore. It's not doing what it was supposed to be doing. Stop subsidizing one thing, and something else collapses. It's beyond anyone's comprehension now.

It will be tough, but I say, time to let it fail. Sometimes that's the only way to fix things.

That said, I think Obama will take whatever course of action he deems will hurt the fewest people, so that might mean stringing the auto industry along. But they really make crap and have no new ideas, and the field ought to be cleared to make room for people who do.
Logged
All you've got to do is choose love.  That's how I live it now.  I learned a long time ago, I can feed the birds in my garden.  I can't feed them all. -- Ringo Starr, Rolling Stone magazine, May 2007<br />

Bobber

  • Administrator
  • Sun King
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 13618
Re: should the big 3 be bailed out?
« Reply #18 on: December 24, 2008, 09:20:20 AM »

So, we WERE right when we were young. The system sucks.  ;D
Logged

pc31

  • Special Member
  • Sun King
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 11717
  • WE SOUL OUR SOULS FOR ROCK AND ROLL!!!!
    • the moondogs
Re: should the big 3 be bailed out?
« Reply #19 on: December 26, 2008, 04:48:23 PM »

Quote from: 551
Capitalism is based on "growth". It's sort of a pyramid scheme, actually. That's why they have to keep building new houses and cars. We don't like in a sustainable society, and there are no plans to make it into one. To me, capitalism is only valuable when it goes to finance something _real_. But we have such a system of tax breaks and incentives and subsidies, no one can sort it out anymore. It's not doing what it was supposed to be doing. Stop subsidizing one thing, and something else collapses. It's beyond anyone's comprehension now.

It will be tough, but I say, time to let it fail. Sometimes that's the only way to fix things.

That said, I think Obama will take whatever course of action he deems will hurt the fewest people, so that might mean stringing the auto industry along. But they really make crap and have no new ideas, and the field ought to be cleared to make room for people who do.
you always were the sensible one.... ;)
 

Page created in 0.446 seconds with 27 queries.