Michael Jackson's Influence

Started by mr vandebilt, Dec 26, 2008, 04:28 PM

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Jane

You need another opinion from a different part of the world to be more objective: Michael Jackson was a great act of the 80s, his music was most welcome and most embraced, he introduced new sounds, he was a banner of the 80s. Some people consider him to have been the most original, unlike the others act. Irrespective of the fact whether we consider his music good or bad nowadays, he was great. Please, do not beat me for that, I know you...

DaveRam

Come the end of the 70's i don't think their was that much original left to do ?
Yes the 80's were bigger and brighter , but i think that was more to do with having a bigger light bulb and better sound system .
And it's even more true now with even better technology ,with some of these shows today the video screens are the star and not the performer  ?

maccafan

I'm a huge very big fan of Michael Jackson and he indeed did break down some barriers! The first black act to really rival the Beatles in worldwide popularity!

He took dance to a whole new level, people like Fred Astaire, Gene Kelly, Sammy Davis Jr. all said so, and that's some pretty heavy endorsement! All the young male pop stars now incorporate Jacksons style of dance in their moves.

Same thing with music videos, he took them to the next level.


As for his singing, if you can't hear how good this man can sing, I can't help you, but I suggest you listen to his song The Lady In My Life!

DaveRam

Quote from: 1580I'm a huge very big fan of Michael Jackson and he indeed did break down some barriers! The first black act to really rival the Beatles in worldwide popularity!

He took dance to a whole new level, people like Fred Astaire, Gene Kelly, Sammy Davis Jr. all said so, and that's some pretty heavy endorsement! All the young male pop stars now incorporate Jacksons style of dance in their moves.

Same thing with music videos, he took them to the next level.


As for his singing, if you can't hear how good this man can sing, I can't help you, but I suggest you listen to his song The Lady In My Life!

The Beatles did have a "Rival" in the 60's it was called "Tamla Motown" , it was known as "The Hit Factory"
The Supremes contempories of The Beatles had 12 # 1 singles on Billboard .
"Holland Dozier Holland" Motown's crack songwriting team penned more top 10 records than Lennon & McCartney and wrote 19 # 1 singles , The Beatles wrote 20 # 1 singles .
And although Michael Jackson did sell mega amounts of records , R&B was in very good shape long before his success
The 60's Tamla Motown Acts not only sold massive amounts , but they were at the forfront of breaking down real barriers in society .

Geoff

Quote from: 971

The Beatles did have a "Rival" in the 60's it was called "Tamla Motown" , it was known as "The Hit Factory"
The Supremes contempories of The Beatles had 12 # 1 singles on Billboard .
"Holland Dozier Holland" Motown's crack songwriting team penned more top 10 records than Lennon & McCartney and wrote 19 # 1 singles , The Beatles wrote 20 # 1 singles .
And although Michael Jackson did sell mega amounts of records , R&B was in very good shape long before his success
The 60's Tamla Motown Acts not only sold massive amounts , but they were at the forfront of breaking down real barriers in society .

Agree, and wasn't Jackson's accomplishment more to break down "the race barrier" on MTV?  :)

mr vandebilt

Quote from: 971

The Beatles did have a "Rival" in the 60's it was called "Tamla Motown" , it was known as "The Hit Factory"
The Supremes contempories of The Beatles had 12 # 1 singles on Billboard .
"Holland Dozier Holland" Motown's crack songwriting team penned more top 10 records than Lennon & McCartney and wrote 19 # 1 singles , The Beatles wrote 20 # 1 singles .
And although Michael Jackson did sell mega amounts of records , R&B was in very good shape long before his success
The 60's Tamla Motown Acts not only sold massive amounts , but they were at the forfront of breaking down real barriers in society .


When Jimmy Mack was a hit in 1967 did your average fan say, ' yay Holland Dozier Holland have done it again  their my favourite songwriting team'. Did teenagers across the world dream of one day writing songs so someone else can get rich and famous. I think if your honest with yourself you'll realize that the majority of people wouldnt know or care who write the songs for the motown acts.

They were good/great writers but their sphere of influence is only a fraction of what the Beatles/Elvis/jacksons was.

The fact is most of the Motown acts were being financially ripped off, the music was pigeonholed as a 'black' genre.  Jackson broke down barriers as he was a pop/mainstream act.

Stupidly i have now had more posts about Jackson then i have about the Beatles. :'(  




tkitna

Quote from: 1699
When Jimmy Mack was a hit in 1967 did your average fan say, ' yay Holland Dozier Holland have done it again  their my favourite songwriting team'.

I understand what your saying and agree, but the average fan is pretty ignorant when it comes to music. For example, my brother would be an average fan. He doesnt care who sings, writes, or plays what. He just knows that if he likes the song,,,,he likes the song. When Micheal was big in the 80's, I admit that I was an average fan. All I knew was he made an album named 'Thriller', it was big, and he was a huge act at the time. It took me later in life to step back and say 'whoah'. Mike didnt write a whole lot of stuff back then. He basically was a farce in my eyes. Again though, the average fan doesnt know who Quincy Jones is either and they dont care so your point is very valid

QuoteDid teenagers across the world dream of one day writing songs so someone else can get rich and famous. I think if your honest with yourself you'll realize that the majority of people wouldnt know or care who write the songs for the motown acts.

Your right, but this doesnt downplay the fact that the people getting all this respect and credit for these tunes dont really deserve it.

QuoteThey were good/great writers but their sphere of influence is only a fraction of what the Beatles/Elvis/jacksons was.

Only because they werent a household name and thats partialy due to Berry Gordy from screwing them with royalties and credits. Ironicaly, their influence was enough that two of the artists you mentioned actually recorded their songs.

QuoteThe fact is most of the Motown acts were being financially ripped off, the music was pigeonholed as a 'black' genre.  Jackson broke down barriers as he was a pop/mainstream act.

Yeah, Motown was looked upon as 'Black' music. I still look at it as that for the most part. As for Jackson breaking down the barriers, I feel you are giving him way to much credit here. Hell, Benny Goodman did more for breaking down the racial barrier than Michael Jackson ever did and he was white.








DaveRam

Quote from: 1699


When Jimmy Mack was a hit in 1967 did your average fan say, ' yay Holland Dozier Holland have done it again  their my favourite songwriting team'. Did teenagers across the world dream of one day writing songs so someone else can get rich and famous. I think if your honest with yourself you'll realize that the majority of people wouldnt know or care who write the songs for the motown acts.

They were good/great writers but their sphere of influence is only a fraction of what the Beatles/Elvis/jacksons was.

The fact is most of the Motown acts were being financially ripped off, the music was pigeonholed as a 'black' genre.  Jackson broke down barriers as he was a pop/mainstream act.

Stupidly i have now had more posts about Jackson then i have about the Beatles. :'(  




I grew up in the North of England during the 60' and 70's and  their was big "Northern Soul" scene , so the people i knew were very knowledgable about Soul Music as we called it .
Soul Music was the music of the working man , all the working mens clubs i used to go to in my teens played nothing else but Soul.
Their were massive clubs like the famous "Wigan Casino" which drew thousands of young people from all over the north to all night events or weekend events .
My singles collection had many 60's 70's Motown records in it as well as other rarer soul records .
People knew who Holland Dozier Holland were and Motown was a much loved and respected label , now i know the North of England is not the world , but  Soul /Motown  was massive , much more popular than The Beatles .
"Soft Cells" million selling Northern Soul cover of Gloria Jones  "Tainted Love" came out of that movement .
So far from Michael Jackson coming along to enlighten us all about R&B , we already knew and loved it .


DaveRam

Also "Ready Steady Go" the famous 60's music programme in the UK introduced British people to Motown they did a special hosted by Dusty Springfield , many of the 60's Motown acts appeared on it .
This show was watched by millions and helped to showcase these Motown acts in the UK , this was a good 15 year before Michael Jackson's Thriller and MTV .

DaveRam

Just been on youtube and they have the  "Ready Steady Go Sound Of Motown Special From 1965 "
This is well worth a watch it's fantastic , part five is brilliant you won't see a line-up like this that often .
Now this is barrier breaking music show , can't see why MTV took so long ,us Brits certainly led the way in the 60's .
And i think looking at "Smoky Robinson" singing Mickey's Monkey it pretty much maps out Michael Jackson's career , the voice the moves all borrowed from Smokey , god this guy was good ????
Dusty Springfield what a legend ?

Ready Steady Go The Sound Of Motown 1965

Part one

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=hFdlgGLRoUQ

Part two

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=PpoAIDs604M

Part three

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=zYWTSKnU6lQ

Part four

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=5GisSw2TsGQ

Part five

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ufwxXvNy5DE

Jane

Guys, you shouldn`t think only about the USA and Britain, take the rest of the world into account as well, at least Europe. Who will know about Motown? I doubt anybody outside the outlined boundaries will know, I even doubt all the British will know. Only those experts. But M.J. is known to everybody, he was popular all over the world, this does say something, doesn`t it?

DaveRam

Quote from: 1580I'm a huge very big fan of Michael Jackson and he indeed did break down some barriers! The first black act to really rival the Beatles in worldwide popularity!

He took dance to a whole new level, people like Fred Astaire, Gene Kelly, Sammy Davis Jr. all said so, and that's some pretty heavy endorsement! All the young male pop stars now incorporate Jacksons style of dance in their moves.

Same thing with music videos, he took them to the next level.


As for his singing, if you can't hear how good this man can sing, I can't help you, but I suggest you listen to his song The Lady In My Life!


This is the guy who took dance to a whole new level "Jeffery Daniel's" of Shalamar , i think Michael Jackson should thank  him for showing him how to dance and do the moonwalk ?
This is the guy who did the famous "Moonwalk" first on Top Of The Pops in (1982) a year before Jackson's more famous shuffle at Motown 25 (1983)
Paul McCartney used Jeffery Daniel's dancing skills in Give My Regards To Broad Street , in the Silly Love Songs section .

Jeffery Daniel's the inventor of the Moonwalk

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=9ImkBve8OW8

J_Moondog

Quote from: 1393Guys, you shouldn`t think only about the USA and Britain, take the rest of the world into account as well, at least Europe. Who will know about Motown? I doubt anybody outside the outlined boundaries will know, I even doubt all the British will know. Only those experts. But M.J. is known to everybody, he was popular all over the world, this does say something, doesn`t it?

I have to say that I am somewhat taken aback by this opinion that appears to be permeating throughout this thread.  The influence and significance of Motown is vast.  I would say that taken as a whole, it is about as important as The Beatles - but significantly moreso for black communities and black music in general.  Motown music not only led to the development of the R&B scene in general (without Motown there would have been no Who, Animals, Kinks, Small Faces, US garage rock - or, had they existed, they would have been entirely unrecognizable as we know them today).  There would have been no disco - a scene which changed the face of pop music as we know it.  There would have no hip hop, which is probably the last significant new scene in popular music.  Take Motown away from the annals of history, and you would probably change the entire direction of music.  I would even wager to say (and we are all speaking hypothetically here) that The Beatles would have been impacted more if Motown disappeared than would Motown have been impacted had The Beatles disappeared.

An Apple Beatle

Motown has influenced my attitude towards music making considerably....Like what your saying Mr. Moondog.  8)
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mr vandebilt

Quote from: 1832

I have to say that I am somewhat taken aback by this opinion that appears to be permeating throughout this thread.  The influence and significance of Motown is vast.  I would say that taken as a whole, it is about as important as The Beatles - but significantly moreso for black communities and black music in general.  Motown music not only led to the development of the R&B scene in general (without Motown there would have been no Who, Animals, Kinks, Small Faces, US garage rock - or, had they existed, they would have been entirely unrecognizable as we know them today).  There would have been no disco - a scene which changed the face of pop music as we know it.  There would have no hip hop, which is probably the last significant new scene in popular music.  Take Motown away from the annals of history, and you would probably change the entire direction of music.  I would even wager to say (and we are all speaking hypothetically here) that The Beatles would have been impacted more if Motown disappeared than would Motown have been impacted had The Beatles disappeared.


No one is disputing the talent and influence Motown has had. Admitting Jackson was influential dosent discredit any other artist. Its not a competition. Motown had a huge influence but Jackson in his prime was regarded as an equal to Elvis/beatles/the Krankies