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Author Topic: Israel vs The Rest  (Read 11472 times)

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pc31

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Re: Israel vs The Rest
« Reply #20 on: December 31, 2008, 03:27:23 AM »

i respect the right of a mass to rally to a flag....clanism is the hobby of man....wisdom is desired....freedom taken for granted....i also think only concerned parties should be concerned.....to the deciders go the decsions....from the voters come the votes...and to all come desires...our commonality should bind us as a species but it will never happen unless individualism is destroyed,we've come too far to stumble back so why do we???
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blackmath

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Re: Israel vs The Rest
« Reply #21 on: December 31, 2008, 06:52:04 AM »

I don't care if they have the right to exist or not. I mean of course everybody in the world has the right to exist. BUT the thing is they are killing innocent people and people around the world are protesting. I really hope some of you just think about what's happening in Gaza, people are being killed for no reason, and it could've been you and your family, but no, you're the lucky kind. You can sit home celebrating christmas, getting presents. You're the chosen one, lucky you. Please do a research or watch the news please. It's not as simple as saying "Yes, they should exist, I don't see a reason why not". I'm not attacking someone in particular here btw. I like this forum and people in it but I couldn't just sit saying nothing. Have an open mind, please.
Or just think, what would John do. ;)
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Bobber

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Re: Israel vs The Rest
« Reply #22 on: December 31, 2008, 10:17:09 AM »

^My point towards the Israeli's I've met in my life is that I wanted to discuss the thing with them. Just to see things from both sides. I think I CAN see things from both sides, but it was a disappointment to see people so stubborn.
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Jane

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Re: Israel vs The Rest
« Reply #23 on: December 31, 2008, 01:55:42 PM »

Quote from: 610
The way I see it, every country has the right to exist...

The same statement as mine. I agree with the poster!  :)
Anyway, first, substantiate your position and we will follow suit, after all you`re the leader!  ;)
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Wordno

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Re: Israel vs The Rest
« Reply #24 on: January 01, 2009, 03:10:18 AM »

Quote from: 1810
I
We are here to stay and nothing can be done about this now. Arabs need to face this, the rest of the world needs to face this. you can't just kick 7 million people out of their home all of a sudden.  

.

I had to laugh at this comment. It can be done. Just ask the Palestinian's who were there before you.

I hate to sound hateful but it's funny to see how pretentious Israelis are. It's like they erased the part in history where all those Palestinian's were kicked out of there homes and put into refugee camps. Israelis always act like the victims for everything. The reason why arabs and palestinian's hate you is because the people who lived in israel before you were kicked out of their homes for being at the wrong place at the wrong time. I work in a mall and at my mall there are Israelis who work at a kiosk selling lotion and while they're fairly nice people, they are still arrogant and pretentious beyond belief. Their opinions were all the same. "We're the victims, feel bad for us.".
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alexis

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Re: Israel vs The Rest
« Reply #25 on: January 01, 2009, 07:07:10 AM »

I think people may be letting their experiences with individual Israelis color their judgment about what the original topic was about - does Israel have the right to exist.

All you who have written above about your unpleasant experiences with Israelis ... I'm wondering how you feel about whether Israel has a right to exist?
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Alexis

blackmath

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Re: Israel vs The Rest
« Reply #26 on: January 01, 2009, 08:42:03 AM »

Alexis: I've never known an Israeli. Never. And you seem to be only paying attention to the second part of Wordno's post. I have to quote

Quote
The reason why arabs and palestinian's hate you is because the people who lived in israel before you were kicked out of their homes for being at the wrong place at the wrong time.


True story. And anyway, how could it be a coincidence all these people meeting stubborn Israelis? And I have to repeat, I don't care if they're stubborn or not, they kicked Palestinians out of their homes long ago and are still torturing them, killing all those innocent people. Disgusting. But I do have to admit that it's not like I dislike all of the Israelis. Only those who think what they did/do was/is right. Now that's disgusting.

http://peoplesgeography.files.wordpress.com/2006/11/gaza_swimming_pool-by-latuff.jpg
Duh?
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python

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Re: Israel vs The Rest
« Reply #27 on: January 01, 2009, 10:12:56 AM »

The deaths of innocent people is what sticks in my throat.Awful.
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Kaleidoscope_Eyes

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Re: Israel vs The Rest
« Reply #28 on: January 01, 2009, 12:07:19 PM »

"The Rest" have all voted for Israel's independence, so why question it?
Israel is existing, Palestine is existing. The problem is that the Arabs in Palestine want some of Israel because in old times that land belonged to them. And that's fact, no one disputes that. But we also had the British mandate and then vote and how long has passed? So really, every country has the right to exist , its just the problem with insane corrupted dictators.

I find it very hard to believe that people would actually, and seriously, ask whether Israel have the right to exist... but then again with the stuff they write in the papers....
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Octie

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Re: Israel vs The Rest
« Reply #29 on: January 01, 2009, 02:16:11 PM »

Quote from: 63
Why would they? Just because the Israeli's share a religion?
... and a language, and culture... isn't that enough for people to exist as a country? It is sufficient for other countries in the world, as far as I know. In addition to which:
Quote from: 1810
There was vote and the rest of the world decided on Israel's foundation.
So yeah, we have the right to exist by law.
Exactly. Israel exists by law, not just due to "an ancient book". Is this not a valid right for existence?

Quote from: 63
Palestina?
It, too, exists. And as far as I can see no-one here questioned its right to do so.


Quote from: 1610
The deaths of innocent people is what sticks in my throat.Awful.
There have been deaths of innocent people on both sides, and yes, this is awful.


Quote from: 403
Israelis always act like the victims for everything. The reason why arabs and palestinian's hate you is because the people who lived in israel before you were kicked out of their homes for being at the wrong place at the wrong time. I work in a mall and at my mall there are Israelis who work at a kiosk selling lotion and while they're fairly nice people, they are still arrogant and pretentious beyond belief. Their opinions were all the same. "We're the victims, feel bad for us.".
Pretending to be victims... I'm sorry, but in my experience it's usually the other way around. At least down here, the newspaper tends to be quite one-sided about the situation. They tend to concentrate on the way Israel retailiates after being attacked, rather than on the fact that they were attacked first, and so had to defend themselves (and I beleive a contry has the right to defend itself when, for example, it is being bombed by missiles). Innocent Israeli citizens die too, but this tends to be ignored/talked down. For example, back when I lived in Israel there were suicide bombers blowing themselves up in shopping centres and buses, so Israeli citizens are also victims of this conflict.


As to who was there before whom... that is not such an easy question, depends how far into history you look. In addition to which, as Alexis said:
Quote from: 568
As far as I see, the reasoning given for invalidity of Israel's claim to exist are that 1) We were here first (Palestinians), 2) It's a false country, set up by political partition, ignoring native and cultural issues on the ground at the time.

Either or both may or may not be true, but if they are used as grounds to deny Israel's existence, then I can't think offhand of any country that  is exempt from similar claims of invalid political existence. Native Americans, Druid Dudes of the British Isles, (Irish Catholics in Northern Ireland? ... claiming ignorance here as to whether that is even a good example), Aborigines down under ... they may all have as legitimate a claim to the lands that were once theirs, and were taken by force and usually pretty ugly behavior besides.
I agree. Different countries/nations have been fighting and conquering each other in the past, and the result is the countries that we have now. I reckon at some point you've got to put a freeze on the "border re-drawing" activity.

I really hope the conflict gets resolved and that Israelis and Palestinians can coexist side by side.

Sorry about the long post you guys. No offence at all intended to any member.
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BlueMeanie

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Re: Israel vs The Rest
« Reply #30 on: January 01, 2009, 05:44:02 PM »

Quote from: 610
Sorry about the long post you guys. No offence at all intended to any member.

No offence taken, I'm sure. Your personal experience is a valued contribution, and you put your points across well. How long were you and KE in Israel?
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alexis

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Re: Israel vs The Rest
« Reply #31 on: January 01, 2009, 06:47:12 PM »

Quote from: 706
Alexis: I've never known an Israeli. Never. And you seem to be only paying attention to the second part of Wordno's post. I have to quote



True story. And anyway, how could it be a coincidence all these people meeting stubborn Israelis? And I have to repeat, I don't care if they're stubborn or not, they kicked Palestinians out of their homes long ago and are still torturing them, killing all those innocent people. Disgusting. But I do have to admit that it's not like I dislike all of the Israelis. Only those who think what they did/do was/is right. Now that's disgusting.

http://peoplesgeography.files.wordpress.com/2006/11/gaza_swimming_pool-by-latuff.jpg
Duh?


But ... couldn't the same sort of thing be said about the countries each of us hail from? And to be honest, I don't think the atrocities are as 1-sided as they sound in your post; thoughts of Palestinian suicide bombers in malls, beaches, and schools come to mind. Not to mention Katusha rockets being fired into Israeli cities from civilian zones.

It's pointless, I believe, to try proceed as if there were one right party, with the other being wrong. I think the only way to solve these things is to have both parties be willing to sit with each other and say something like "For the lives of our children and grandchildren we will give up something which we have previously sworn to never give up - if you will do the same". Or something like that ...
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Re: Israel vs The Rest
« Reply #32 on: January 02, 2009, 01:49:11 PM »

Re "stubborn Isrealis" - I met quite a few while travelling (especially India) and did find them particularly hard to get along with. I have the same experience with pre Mandella South Africans, and put it down to the fact that these people had grown up in what is practically a seige culture - no wonder they appear insular and arrogant. It's a trait they need to survive.
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Bobber

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Re: Israel vs The Rest
« Reply #33 on: January 02, 2009, 07:33:04 PM »

Quote from: 610
... and a language, and culture... isn't that enough for people to exist as a country? It is sufficient for other countries in the world, as far as I know. In addition to which:
It should be enough maybe. But there's enough nations that don't have that luxury.

Quote from: 610

It, too, exists. And as far as I can see no-one here questioned its right to do so.
You can hardly call that existing.

Quote from: 610
There have been deaths of innocent people on both sides, and yes, this is awful.


Pretending to be victims... I'm sorry, but in my experience it's usually the other way around. At least down here, the newspaper tends to be quite one-sided about the situation. They tend to concentrate on the way Israel retailiates after being attacked, rather than on the fact that they were attacked first, and so had to defend themselves (and I beleive a contry has the right to defend itself when, for example, it is being bombed by missiles). Innocent Israeli citizens die too, but this tends to be ignored/talked down. For example, back when I lived in Israel there were suicide bombers blowing themselves up in shopping centres and buses, so Israeli citizens are also victims of this conflict.
[/quote]

Well, maybe that's a matter of, what we call, the chicken and the egg. What was there first?
Quote from: 610
I really hope the conflict gets resolved and that Israelis and Palestinians can coexist side by side.
Amen to that!
Quote from: 610
Sorry about the long post you guys. No offence at all intended to any member.
No offence taken. Just a healthy discussion as far as I'm concerned.
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Jane

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Re: Israel vs The Rest
« Reply #34 on: January 02, 2009, 09:10:58 PM »

I don`t think any solution would be found in the near future. Different politicians and leaders (Bill Clinton before his retirement) tried to resolve the situation but in vain. Unfortunately we have to wait for a new generation of leaders to come to power, for a new mind-set to be formed, maybe then...
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Sondra

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Re: Israel vs The Rest
« Reply #35 on: January 02, 2009, 11:03:10 PM »

Most Americans seem to automatically take the Israeli's side. Is this brainwashing?
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Re: Israel vs The Rest
« Reply #36 on: January 03, 2009, 03:46:03 AM »

I wouldn't know about that. It is portrayed over here (UK) that Israel and America are politically close.
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Bobber

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Re: Israel vs The Rest
« Reply #37 on: January 03, 2009, 08:35:04 AM »

The country with the most Jews in the world is... the USA. Not Israel!
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Sondra

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Re: Israel vs The Rest
« Reply #38 on: January 03, 2009, 09:32:44 AM »

Quote from: 63
The country with the most Jews in the world is... the USA. Not Israel!

Hmm, wonder why that is?  :X And yes, I suppose that has something to do with it!
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Jane

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Re: Israel vs The Rest
« Reply #39 on: January 03, 2009, 09:03:50 PM »

Quote from: 15
I wouldn't know about that. It is portrayed over here (UK) that Israel and America are politically close.

Then it is portrayed like that everywhere, which means it is true.
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