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Author Topic: Abbey Road Is The Jewel In The Beatles Crown ?  (Read 6995 times)

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The Swine

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Re: Abbey Road Is The Jewel In The Beatles Crown ?
« Reply #40 on: December 21, 2010, 02:46:03 PM »

You can make a case every Beatles album was a progression and it broke some ground.

nice post. can you do it for help!?
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Musicfan67

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Re: Abbey Road Is The Jewel In The Beatles Crown ?
« Reply #41 on: December 21, 2010, 02:59:45 PM »

First time post here.  Personally I think that albums like Revolver and Rubber Soul (in particular the US version) have been far more influential than Abbey Road.  I don't see very many albums with the kind of structure that Abbey Road has (though I'm sure that they exist).  To me, the mini-opera seems to be a rather crucial part of the record, and I don't see that as being a blueprint for the modern pop/rock album.  In terms of the song lengths (which someone mentioned here), I would agree that the length of the tracks are somewhat more in line with contemporary length, but I am not so sure I am convinced that the current average running time of pop songs are a consequence of Abbey Road.  After all, only four of the seventeen songs go over 3 and a half minutes.  I think too that the progression of the song length was more of a growing trend that the Beatles were following rather than establishing.  After all, the Rolling Stones had eclipsed the ten minute mark as far back as 1966.  Blues and folk music never restricted themselves much to the 3 minute pop song; and I think that the rising popularity of Dylan throughout the sixties gave pop acts like the Beatles more freedom to broaden their scope.

This is not meant to be judgemental, incidentally.  I think that Abbey Road is a great album but I am not sure that I find it to be as crucial or significant a Beatles album as Revolver or Rubber Soul (or, in my opinion, The White Album and Sgt. Pepper).  However it may be their most iconic album cover, which is amusing given the amount of work that went into Pepper.

One thing you are missing with Bob Dylan as compared to the Beatles. Bob Dylan was still restricted to popular music forms and the Beatles went way beyond pop music at times. I’m not talking about a length of a song though the Beatles did release an 8 minute track avant collage “Revolution #9” and over 5 minute classical Indian song “Within You Without You”.

Take “Blue Jay Way” the use of dissonance even surpasses some of what the Velvet Underground were doing at the time. The track is totally based on Indian ragas with no guitars, backward tape, and a lone cello not exactly something you would even hear on the Doors first album. There plenty of other examples like this during this period.

As for the Abbey Road Medley it’s a bunch of finished and unfinished songs, put together in medley form to create an operatic structure. The thing is it’s not a really opera because there is no narrative theme. So again the Beatles are really bending the conventional concepts of an extended form of music. So I agree I can’t see its influence everywhere in music but I can appreciate what they were doing.
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Musicfan67

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Re: Abbey Road Is The Jewel In The Beatles Crown ?
« Reply #42 on: December 21, 2010, 03:20:07 PM »

nice post. can you do it for help!?

Help has some great songs but it has songs that I can do without. I know I was talking about this song on another thread here. Take "Ticket To Ride' the drone, the drum pattern which is proto type for "Tomorrow Never Knows", and the slow heavy sound might be their first step towards hard rock and psychedelic rock.

The Beatles were going away from the basic rock guitar set up with some of the tracks. You have "Yesterday" one of the most covered songs and you can hear it's influence on Left Banke and on the Rolling Stones "As Tears Go By'. Songs like "You've Got to Hide Your Love Away", and "I've Just Seen a Face" are all acoustics instruments. Country Rock influences on "Act Naturally, and "Another Girl".  I've Just Seen a Face" is basically a country song in the pace of blues grass music. "Help" has two melodies being sung at the same time in a proto-type folk rock song.

Bizarre guitar sounds on "It's Only Love" and all those volume swell guitar sounds "I Need You". Most of all it's one of the first folk and country rock albums IMO. Though I can say the same thing for Beatles For Sale though.
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nimrod

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Re: Abbey Road Is The Jewel In The Beatles Crown ?
« Reply #43 on: December 22, 2010, 01:26:59 AM »

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Technically Abbey Road is their best album vocally and instrumentally.

I dont agree with you there, The White Album was much more challenging than Abbey Rd in both respects

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It's really on "Rain", "Paper Back Writer" and "Tomorrow Never Knows" is where the production and ideas shine through. You have boosted bass and drums right up front

but boosted bass and drums were done mainly because they were jealous of the sound The Stones were getting in American studio's so it wasnt a new concept by The Beatles, Paul always complained that you could actually hear the bass on early Stones records

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and the Abbey Road Medley both influence on heavy metal and progressive rock respectively

I honestly think Pepper was THE biggest influence on prog, in fact some prog sites categorise it as Proto Prog
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Musicfan67

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Re: Abbey Road Is The Jewel In The Beatles Crown ?
« Reply #44 on: December 22, 2010, 01:17:22 PM »

I dont agree with you there, The White Album was much more challenging than Abbey Rd in both respects

but boosted bass and drums were done mainly because they were jealous of the sound The Stones were getting in American studio's so it wasnt a new concept by The Beatles, Paul always complained that you could actually hear the bass on early Stones records

I honestly think Pepper was THE biggest influence on prog, in fact some prog sites categorise it as Proto Prog


Maybe they were jealous of what the Rolling Stones were doing. Though the techniques the Beatles were using on Revolver were different and more influential. Though, I would like you to give an example prior to the Rolling Stones catalog where the drums and bass are as loud and as up-front as "Rain" and "Tomorrow Never Knows".

Technically on Abbey Road I think George Harrison guitar work, and the Beatles vocal harmonies listen to “Because” are better that what you hear on the White Album. It’s like giving some one an A and A+ grade. They were both great.

Of course Abbey Road is closer to prog than Sgt. Peppers its more than two years older than Sgt. Pepper so you would think they progressed. As for Sgt Pepper many consider it the first prog album. I consider “A Day in the Life” as prog rather than Frank Zappa Varese influenced composing melding of 50’s rock and roll of his prior two albums.



www.dprp.net/proghistory/1967.html
« Last Edit: December 22, 2010, 01:21:30 PM by Musicfan67 »
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nimrod

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Re: Abbey Road Is The Jewel In The Beatles Crown ?
« Reply #45 on: December 23, 2010, 02:09:59 AM »

Quote
I would like you to give an example prior to the Rolling Stones catalog where the drums and bass are as loud and as up-front as "Rain" and "Tomorrow Never Knows".

Im thinking Satisfaction and 19th Nervous Breakdown for two, both 65 where you could hear prominant bass (but maybe Paul insisted on it being even more prominant for Rain)

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Of course Abbey Road is closer to prog than Sgt. Peppers its more than two years older than Sgt. Pepper so you would think they progressed
Thats what I dont agree with, by 1969, King Crimson had released the first full blown prog album (in the Court) so the genre was established and Abbey Rd was more 'Rock' than 'Prog Rock', although parts of it were Symphonic and Arty..
Pepper was Art Rock, sometimes referred to as Proto Prog, but it was more Prog than Abbey Rd IMO, because, first of all it was a concept album with gatefold 'artistic' cover art, it had prog elements (think the intro to Fixing A Hole) songs with differing time signatures (Mr Kite, Day In The Life), a large variety of instrumentation, mellotron, sitars, Indian percussive instruments, full symphony orchestra etc


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nimrod

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Re: Abbey Road Is The Jewel In The Beatles Crown ?
« Reply #46 on: September 28, 2013, 10:11:55 AM »

Maybe they were jealous of what the Rolling Stones were doing. Though the techniques the Beatles were using on Revolver were different and more influential. Though, I would like you to give an example prior to the Rolling Stones catalog where the drums and bass are as loud and as up-front as "Rain" and "Tomorrow Never Knows".

Technically on Abbey Road I think George Harrison guitar work, and the Beatles vocal harmonies listen to “Because” are better that what you hear on the White Album. It’s like giving some one an A and A+ grade. They were both great.

Of course Abbey Road is closer to prog than Sgt. Peppers its more than two years older than Sgt. Pepper so you would think they progressed. As for Sgt Pepper many consider it the first prog album. I consider “A Day in the Life” as prog rather than Frank Zappa Varese influenced composing melding of 50’s rock and roll of his prior two albums.



www.dprp.net/proghistory/1967.html



hey musicfan67, wherever you are, you never finished our (interesting for me) discussion from 2010, I like your posts, please post again if you still with us :)
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