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Author Topic: The Present  (Read 13914 times)

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alexis

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Re: The Present
« Reply #20 on: March 03, 2009, 12:40:15 PM »

Quote from: 1789
wtf? another jehovah witness? i read the thing and it has not made me a better man than i already am. but then im not into this kind of stuff at all. religion is for the poor man.

No, Bobber, this thing. If you think this is not so bad, I'd ask you to consider what you would think if it referred to sexual orientation or race - would it be acceptable on this forum then?

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Alexis

BlueMeanie

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Re: The Present
« Reply #21 on: March 03, 2009, 12:53:35 PM »

Quote from: 568

No, Bobber, this thing. If you think this is not so bad, I'd ask you to consider what you would think if it referred to sexual orientation or race - would it be acceptable on this forum then?


Swine is taking the p*ss. I'm sorry, but if you're going to join a Beatles discussion forum, and the first thing you post is some old crap like this, then you shouldn't expect to be taken seriously. If you join in with the forum, get to know people, then post something like this you'll have better luck.
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Bobber

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Re: The Present
« Reply #22 on: March 03, 2009, 01:06:34 PM »

Quote from: 568

No, Bobber, this thing. If you think this is not so bad, I'd ask you to consider what you would think if it referred to sexual orientation or race - would it be acceptable on this forum then?


The point is that it doesn't refer to that. Actually, I think Swine's got a point here. It is usually poor people that fill the churches, not the rich ones. But then there's a lot more poor people of course. Poor people pray harder for better times than the rich do in my humble opinion.
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alexis

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Re: The Present
« Reply #23 on: March 03, 2009, 03:31:15 PM »

Quote from: 483

Swine is taking the p*ss. I'm sorry, but if you're going to join a Beatles discussion forum, and the first thing you post is some old crap like this, then you shouldn't expect to be taken seriously. If you join in with the forum, get to know people, then post something like this you'll have better luck.



Quote from: 63

The point is that it doesn't refer to that. Actually, I think Swine's got a point here. It is usually poor people that fill the churches, not the rich ones. But then there's a lot more poor people of course. Poor people pray harder for better times than the rich do in my humble opinion.

Even if the intent was to "take the p*ss out of" the new poster, the words could easily be taken as belittling by a group of people.  What if it were instead said "Being gay is for poor losers who don't fit in to society", or "Black people cause a lot of crime". Would these statements be OK to post if the purpose was just to tweak a new poster?

I'm just asking for sensitivity, especially from the moderators, towards groups that may have value systems. Isn't that the true meaning of "Love"?

**Climbs off soapbox, at least somewhat embarassed, to work on a third harmony to "Norwegian Wood"**


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BlueMeanie

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Re: The Present
« Reply #24 on: March 03, 2009, 03:48:13 PM »

^ Fair point, we all know what Swine is like though, and it's all tongue in cheek. I'll go back to my original assertion that you should get to know the folks on any forum before you start posting stuff like this. Then you'll be less surprised by the responses you get from certain people, and you'll understand them better. We would all expect Swine to pop up and say something contraversial like that.
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Swine

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Re: The Present
« Reply #25 on: March 03, 2009, 03:50:25 PM »

i was talking to myself
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Living One

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Re: The Present
« Reply #26 on: March 03, 2009, 04:40:39 PM »

Well it seems we have drifted off topic a bit.  I'll try to get some conversation started with quotes from "The Present."

Page 209:

"They were like the God
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BlueMeanie

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Re: The Present
« Reply #27 on: March 03, 2009, 05:19:47 PM »

Quote from: 1915
The sign: There is a sign in their songs to let us know the songs are not just for a girl. The sign is the word "friend" which is not a way that you would address a girl you are singing a love song too."


Blimey what a revelation!
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Kevin

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Re: The Present
« Reply #28 on: March 03, 2009, 05:27:04 PM »

I had a browse. Dear me - a lot of something about nothing. I think we get a lot of this around here (and there and everywhere) : if you really want to find or see something you will. All harmless really - I'll file it away with UFO's and Creationists.
I have to commend Jethro Tull on the way s/he conducts themselves.
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An Apple Beatle

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Re: The Present
« Reply #29 on: March 03, 2009, 06:21:09 PM »

Peace & Love  ;D
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Sondra

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Re: The Present
« Reply #30 on: March 04, 2009, 01:45:47 AM »

Quote from: 568





Even if the intent was to "take the p*ss out of" the new poster, the words could easily be taken as belittling by a group of people.  What if it were instead said "Being gay is for poor losers who don't fit in to society", or "Black people cause a lot of crime". Would these statements be OK to post if the purpose was just to tweak a new poster?

I'm just asking for sensitivity, especially from the moderators, towards groups that may have value systems. Isn't that the true meaning of "Love"?

**Climbs off soapbox, at least somewhat embarassed, to work on a third harmony to "Norwegian Wood"**



I don't think those analogies work. Religion is something that is chosen. Being gay or black is not. And why is saying religion is for the poor man an insult? What are we presuming about poor people then? Anyway, it's a very debatable statement isn't it?
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alexis

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Re: The Present
« Reply #31 on: March 04, 2009, 03:08:46 AM »

Quote from: 216

I don't think those analogies work. Religion is something that is chosen. Being gay or black is not. And why is saying religion is for the poor man an insult? What are we presuming about poor people then? Anyway, it's a very debatable statement isn't it?

OK, you're right, Sandra, the analogies don't work well, for the reason you mentioned. How about "Veganism is for hypocrites, at least for people who use medicine or vaccinate their kids, since it is almost all derived from animal testng". A debatable statement yes, but I would call it just what I called Swine's statement, provocative and it is certainly potentially insulting.

Here's a quote from Obama (well, a paraphrase really.'cos I can't remember it word for word): "The people in western Pennsylvania are poor, and have been for generations, and so they cling to their guns and their religion ...".

Just because a statement is debatable, doesn't mean it is not insulting and condescending. Obama realized that as soon as he said it, it was universally interpreted as such, and he apologized for it. If the economy hadn't tanked as much as it did, it might have cost him the state of Pennsylvania (along with Murtha's comments)!




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Sondra

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Re: The Present
« Reply #32 on: March 04, 2009, 03:35:09 AM »

Yeah, he apologized cuz he got caught saying it. But again, pointing out the arrogance of such a statement and challenging the person who made it to defend it seems like a better way of dealing with it than just being offended and forcing a fake apology. What does that solve other than encouraging people to continue to complain about any little thing and force people to closet their actual feelings. People get offended about EVERYTHING anymore. It's just one person's opinion. Let them prove it then if they feel that way. Let him speak his mind. I WANT to know what he really thinks! Not just what he knows we want him to think. Give me reality even if it isn't pretty.

In any case, I find it sad that all poor people are being looked down upon as ignorant in these cases, and would like someone to further explain their rationale in coming to that conclusion. And then if you feel these poor, misguided people are so bad off, what are you all doing about it besides looking down on them? Those who are so fortunate to be so enlightened should share their vast wisdom with these poor, dumb folk no? Anyway, Obama should certainly know better than to stereotype an ENTIRE group of people! Arrogance is what it comes down to. But he's a very religious person himself, so now what? He isn't taking issue with any religion, he was taking issue with those people's religion. The white trash. That's the real issue. Yeah, surprising he survived that faux pa.

Anyway, plenty of ignorant middle and upper class too. Personally, I find the state of this country's intelligence pretty depressing lately. People are more interested in TMZ, gossip rags, and reality shows than in actually contributing to society and doing their part to improve this place. Who can be bothered when they've got their DVR filled up with dumb shows to watch. God, they'd be contributing just demanding entertainment that isn't so base and mean spirited. I mean, what are we becoming the Roman Empire? Next up, throwing celebrities to the lions! Or are they already doing that? How many people are waiting for one of the addicts on Celebrity Rehab to kick off? Sad to say, but people would be riveted.  I find it disgusting. But let's rag on the poor and religious. Cuz it's easy.

Sorry, feeling a bit bummed tonight. Know I'm going overboard. :B
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alexis

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Re: The Present
« Reply #33 on: March 04, 2009, 03:44:19 AM »

Quote from: 216
Yeah, he apologized cuz he got caught saying it. But again, pointing out the arrogance of such a statement and challenging the person who made it to defend it seems like a better way of dealing with it than just being offended and forcing a fake apology. What does that solve other than encouraging people to continue to complain about any little thing and force people to closet their actual feelings. People get offended about EVERYTHING anymore. It's just one person's opinion. Let them prove it then if they feel that way. Let him speak his mind. I WANT to know what he really thinks! Not just what he knows we want him to think. Give me reality even if it isn't pretty.

In any case, I find it sad that all poor people are being looked down upon as ignorant in these cases, and would like someone to further explain their rationale in coming to that conclusion. And then if you feel these poor, misguided people are so bad off, what are you all doing about it besides looking down on them? Those who are so fortunate to be so enlightened should share their vast wisdom with these poor, dumb folk no? Anyway, Obama should certainly know better than to stereotype an ENTIRE group of people! Arrogance is what it comes down to. But he's a very religious person himself, so now what? He isn't taking issue with any religion, he was taking issue with those people's religion. The white trash. That's the real issue. Yeah, surprising he survived that faux pa.

Anyway, plenty of ignorant middle and upper class too. Personally, I find the state of this country's intelligence pretty depressing lately. People are more interested in TMZ, gossip rags, and reality shows than in actually contributing to society and doing their part to improve this place. Who can be bothered when they've got their DVR filled up with dumb shows to watch. God, they'd be contributing just demanding entertainment that isn't so base and mean spirited. I mean, what are we becoming the Roman Empire? Next up, throwing celebrities to the lions! Or are they already doing that? How many people are waiting for one of the addicts on Celebrity Rehab to kick off? Sad to say, but people would be riveted.  I find it disgusting. But let's rag on the poor and religious. Cuz it's easy.

Sorry, feeling a bit bummed tonight. Know I'm going overboard. :B

Sandra, don't feel bummed tonight, I think you are great, just because you are right that the world is going to hedoubletoothpick in a handbasket doesn't mean we can't also enjoy the beatiful things in life - the purple flowered tree thingies blooming (if you're still in NYC maybe it's the daffodils, but not for a few weeks  ;) ), a tiny infant cooing, seeing someone do something nice for someone else out of pure altruism, and those heaven-sent harmonies by two guys named John and Paul.

Hang in there, remember, New Yorkers are hard to keep down!!   :) :)
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I love John,
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Alexis

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Re: The Present
« Reply #34 on: March 04, 2009, 10:24:53 AM »

Quote from: 185
I have to commend Jethro Tull on the way s/he conducts themselves.

The way he/she conducted herself was to post this stuff on about 5 different forums here, and get him/herself banned. Having begged to be allowed back he/she proceeds to post the same crap. Can you understand the reaction now?
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pc31

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Re: The Present
« Reply #35 on: March 04, 2009, 11:38:32 AM »

call out the firing squad...religion is a topic we can't discuss with success here...

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Re: The Present
« Reply #36 on: March 04, 2009, 02:36:26 PM »

I think you can take the meanings too literally. I was recently arrested while doing it in the road. The policeman concerned was having none of it that I was a fanatical beatlepathic.  
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An Apple Beatle

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Re: The Present
« Reply #37 on: March 04, 2009, 03:44:30 PM »

Quote from: 284
call out the firing squad...religion is a topic we can't discuss with sucess here...

Stir it up...Little darling.
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Swine

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Re: The Present
« Reply #38 on: March 04, 2009, 03:57:59 PM »

Quote from: 284
call out the firing squad...religion is a topic we can't discuss with sucess here...

i didnt start the fire
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An Apple Beatle

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Re: The Present
« Reply #39 on: March 04, 2009, 04:03:06 PM »

Quote from: 1789

i didnt start the fire

It was always burning since the world's been turning eh?
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