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Author Topic: Rod Murray: bass  (Read 4172 times)

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Bobber

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Rod Murray: bass
« on: February 28, 2009, 09:42:24 AM »

I bumped into this the other day. It looks as if the choice for Stuart to become the Beatles'  bassplayer was quite random. It could have been Rod Murray as well. This quote was taken from liverpoolecho.co.uk, an article about a new exhibition on Stu's art.

Quote
Those looking for evidence here of Stuart Sutcliffe
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Xose

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Re: Rod Murray: bass
« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2009, 12:03:49 PM »

Quote from: 63
I bumped into this the other day. It looks as if the choice for Stuart to become the Beatles'  bassplayer was quite random. It could have been Rod Murray as well. This quote was taken from liverpoolecho.co.uk, an article about a new exhibition on Stu's art...

Good point!! ;)

It's time to pulverize son many Beatles related myths...

Best!! ;)

Xose
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Bobber

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Re: Rod Murray: bass
« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2009, 12:10:51 PM »

I noticed this story in Bill Harry's encyclopedia as well by the way.
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Xose

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Re: Rod Murray: bass
« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2009, 12:14:02 PM »

Quote from: 63
I noticed this story in Bill Harry's encyclopedia as well by the way.

Oh I see...

Which entry??

Thank you in advance!! ;)

Xose
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Bobber

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Re: Rod Murray: bass
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2009, 12:26:56 PM »

Under Rod Murray.
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Xose

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Re: Rod Murray: bass
« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2009, 01:21:53 PM »

Quote from: 63
Under Rod Murray.

(confused) (confused) (confused)

Rod Murray?? My copy of Bill Harry's The Beatles Encyclopedia has no entry for Rod Murray. It contains an entry for 'Murray, Mitch' (=pp. 786-787) and, after that one, jumps to 'Museum Hall, Henderson Street, Bridge of Allan, Stiringshire, Scotland' (=page 787)... :-/

Maybe Bill can solve the mistery...

Xose
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Bobber

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Re: Rod Murray: bass
« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2009, 01:28:19 PM »

I see I have the 1992 first American edition.
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Xose

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Re: Rod Murray: bass
« Reply #7 on: February 28, 2009, 01:36:09 PM »

Quote from: 63
I see I have the 1992 first American edition.

Mine is 2000 Virgin Publishing Ltd. English edition. Why are they 'so' different?? (confused)

Xose

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Bill Harry

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Re: Rod Murray: bass
« Reply #8 on: February 28, 2009, 06:31:15 PM »

Virgin just scrubbed 40,000 words out of the revised edition because of the huge length. When published it was twelve hundred pages. They said that the printer couldn't produce a book with more pages than that and they then had to scrub the rest, otherwise it would have been about fifteen hundred pages in length.
I just e-mailed Rod the other day, he still has that unfinished bass guitar he was making. Lots of stories that appear in the media as if they are new, have been revealed in my books for the past thirty years. Rod was actually Stu's best friend at the college, not John.
Here's a short item about Rod which was in my 'John Lennon Encyclopedia.'

MURRAY, ROD. A youth from the West Derby area of Liverpool. He enrolled at Liverpool College of Art in 1958. Rod befriended Stuart Sutcliffe and eventually invited Stuart to share a flat he rented at 8 Gambier Terrace. John Lennon also began staying at the flat on a regular basis.
     John, Stu, Rod and Bill Harry used to get together on a regular basis and at one time Harry suggested they called themselves
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Xose

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Re: Rod Murray: bass
« Reply #9 on: February 28, 2009, 07:55:54 PM »

Quote from: 1062
Virgin just scrubbed 40,000 words out of the revised edition because of the huge length. When published it was twelve hundred pages. They said that the printer couldn't produce a book with more pages than that and they then had to scrub the rest, otherwise it would have been about fifteen hundred pages in length.
I just e-mailed Rod the other day, he still has that unfinished bass guitar he was making. Lots of stories that appear in the media as if they are new, have been revealed in my books for the past thirty years. Rod was actually Stu's best friend at the college, not John.
Here's a short item about Rod which was in my 'John Lennon Encyclopedia.'...

Thank SO much for your explanation!! ;)

Best!! ;)

Xose
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alexis

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Re: Rod Murray: bass
« Reply #10 on: March 01, 2009, 05:57:12 AM »

I don't get it ... all the thousands of words about John and Stu BFF, soul mates, and the like, was just plain untrue?
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pc31

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Re: Rod Murray: bass
« Reply #11 on: March 01, 2009, 06:28:15 PM »

not entirely alex...myth poking seems to be a favorite pasttime for many...rewriting hiostory gets you known....

Ligger

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Re: Rod Murray: bass
« Reply #12 on: March 02, 2009, 03:06:48 AM »

It is interesting to watch Rod, himself, talk about the story.

He starts at about 0:30 just after Allan Williams:


Kh0sNwZ5vzw




The clip is from a 2003 documentary, The Beatles: A Long and Winding Road.
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alexis

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Re: Rod Murray: bass
« Reply #13 on: March 02, 2009, 05:15:51 AM »

Quote from: 1122
It is interesting to watch Rod, himself, talk about the story.

He starts at about 0:30 just after Alan Williams:


Kh0sNwZ5vzw



The clip is from a 2003 documentary, The Beatles: A Long and Winding Road.


Hey Ligger, this is a GREAT clip, thanks so much!

"Coffee Bar layabouts" ... how about that for an early description of the Fab Four!
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Bill Harry

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Re: Rod Murray: bass
« Reply #14 on: March 02, 2009, 11:19:22 AM »

Recent history does need re-writing - simply to get at the truth. It's the liggers who create these inaccurate stories and they need to be challenged. Look at that ridiculous story, for instance, that the Beatles got their name from 'The Wild One' movie, banned in Britain until 1968; or that Brian Epstein bought thousands of copies of 'Love Me Do'; or even the Beatles assertion that when they came back from Germany all the Liverpool groups were playing Shadows music; the disparagement of Alf Lennon because Aunt Mimi refused to have his interview used in the official biography; or that John Lennon was born in the middle of an air raid....and so it goes on, lots of myths that do need attending to. If its a choice between the truth and the myth, the myth generally wins out every time.
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alexis

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Re: Rod Murray: bass
« Reply #15 on: March 02, 2009, 01:49:56 PM »

Quote from: 1062
Recent history does need re-writing - simply to get at the truth. It's the liggers who create these inaccurate stories and they need to be challenged. Look at that ridiculous story, for instance, that the Beatles got their name from 'The Wild One' movie, banned in Britain until 1968; or that Brian Epstein bought thousands of copies of 'Love Me Do'; or even the Beatles assertion that when they came back from Germany all the Liverpool groups were playing Shadows music; the disparagement of Alf Lennon because Aunt Mimi refused to have his interview used in the official biography; or that John Lennon was born in the middle of an air raid....and so it goes on, lots of myths that do need attending to. If its a choice between the truth and the myth, the myth generally wins out every time.

And that, sir, is why we are so blessed to have Mr. Bill Harry on our forums!!  :)

Getting back to Rod Murray's narrative - I had never realized how directly Eddie Cochrane's death affected the arc of the Beatles career. As I understand it, to summarize the youtube - Eddie Cochrane dies in a car wreck in England (Liverpool?), Gene Vincent lives, but the promoter needs a new act to keep the bill full. So they audition some Liverpool groups, apparently one of the worst of who was the Beatles.

Does that sound right? Is this where they were chosen to do the Johnny Gentle tour? Is this where the photo of them playing, with Johnny Hutchinson drumming and John Lennon in white spat shoes doing a Buddy Holly guitar pose, comes from? And come to think of it, with Stu Sutcliff playing bass, was Rod Murray just in the audience for the audition?
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Bill Harry

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Re: Rod Murray: bass
« Reply #16 on: March 02, 2009, 02:46:26 PM »

This is the sequence of the story (incidentally, it was Dave Dee, who was a police cadet at the time, who attended the accident in which Eddie died). Larry Parnes had booked both Eddie and Gene into Liverpool Stadium for a concert, also to be co-promoted by Allan Williams.
It was decided that a new concert be arranged and that due to Eddie's death, the missing part of the bill would be filled by local groups.
This event took place on Tuesday May 3 1960. The groups Williams booked were Cass & the Cassanovas, Rory Storm & the Hurricanes and Gerry & the Pacemakers. Allan didn't book John's group (they weren't called the Beatles then) because he'd never booked them or had anything to do with them. Larry Parnes was pleased with the Liverpool groups and asked Allan to arrange an audition as he was looking fora backing band for Billy Fury. The audition took place at the WyvernClub on 10 May. Only four groups were booked for the audition: Cass & the Cassanovas, Derry & the Seniors, Gerry & the Pacemakers and Cliff Roberts & the Rockers. Once again, the group, now called the Silver Beetles, weren't on Allan's list because they were just among the many regulars at the Jacaranda club. It was Stuart who approached Allan asking if they could do the audition and he added them to it.
Parnes was also looking for bands to back Duffy Power, Johnny Gentle and others of his solo acts. Billy Fury also attended the audition.
The Silver Beetles drummer Tommy Moore turned up late and initially Johnny Hutchinson sat in with them. Parnes said that he didn't like the drummer being tardy, he was dressed differently from the others and was a lot older. He never had any comment to make about Stuart. Parnes booked the Silver Beetles to back Johnny Gentle on the short Scottish tour and of course, Allan got his agent's fee. He then booked them at his Jacaranda club to replace the Royal Caribbean Steel Band. He had an agency Jacaranda Enterprises in which he also booked groups such as Gerry & the Pacemakers and Derry & the Seniors and he began booking the Silver Beetles and Gerry onto the Grosvenor Ballroom Birkenhead and the Institute, Neston.
Because of the booking to back Duffy Power on tour, Derry & the Seniors turned professional. Then the gig was cancelled. Derry Wilkie and Howie Casey went to see Allan and he said he'd take them down to the Two I's in London. They got there, they played and by coincidence Bruno Koschmider was in the club at the time looking for groups to book for his club in Hamburg, having already booked the Jets, another band he'd seen at the Two I's.
Then Koshmider contacted Allan to ask him to send another Liverpool band. Allan asked Gerry & the Pacemakers, Gerry turned him down.
He then asked Rory Storm & the Hurricanes, but they had been booked for a Butlins season. In desperation, he homed in on the Silver Beetles. One could ask - if he was supposed to be the Beatles manager (rather than the agent), why didn't he make them his first choice to go to Hamburg?
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Bobber

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Re: Rod Murray: bass
« Reply #17 on: March 02, 2009, 03:35:37 PM »

Quote from: 1062
He never had any comment to make about Stuart.

There's another myth...
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Jane

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Re: Rod Murray: bass
« Reply #18 on: March 02, 2009, 09:49:14 PM »

Very interesting Mr. Bill Harry! Now that I am readind the book by Alan Clayson about Allan Williams and the bands... And you give this information!
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pc31

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Re: Rod Murray: bass
« Reply #19 on: March 03, 2009, 02:00:16 AM »

didn't i tell you it would help to have you on a forum bill??a myth buster.....sir willams m b.... ;D
one thing bothers me....i had read that parnes was into guys not girls....not to take anything away from anybody,eppy leaned that way too...was there alot of f**gery in the industry at the time??i suspect it was more rampant than revealed thru time....why is this fact kept so hushed???and who are the f**s bill????lol  ;Dkidding you don't have to answer this.... ;)
that's how we crossed paths you told me something at my awful moondog site was innaccurate.....the jets opened the door........who was the lead jet bill and why the hell wasn't joe brown involved?????roy young was there too who did he go over with??
and now to address the eddie c discussion...i think eddie was gonna be big...maybe bigger than elvis what's his face...he was set to film a movie and tour america...gene's career sadly was screwed in america so across the pond was the best thing for him...him and eddie were good friends...i feel for gene losing his best friend and the best thing to happen to his career...the devil must have really been after him....gene wanted eddie to stay in europe but eddie wanted to do the movie...he was gonna come back he even told gene that.....it's just a sad freaking tragedy....but at least we have his music and genes too....i think that they fit in perfect with the early rockers in england and may have inspired more bands than most people realize...
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