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Author Topic: Why do some John people dislike Paul so much?  (Read 6129 times)

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Penny Lane

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Why do some John people dislike Paul so much?
« on: March 20, 2009, 12:48:49 AM »

I hope a thread like this hasn't been posted before (I checked back a couple of pages and didn't see anything).

Sometimes (a lot of times?) I get the strong feeling that some Lennon fans really hate Paul.  Like, in comparison to John, Paul just can't match up in terms of his years as a Beatle, his music, his personality, his charitable work, etc.  To some John people, Paul was a pretty singing head while John was the edgy "core" of the Beatles.  No matter what, Paul will always be inferior to them.

My point in starting this thread is NOT to pit John against Paul, as this has been done way too many times and is just tiresome and immature.  I just want to ask the Lennon fans here:  Do you dislike Paul?  Do you think he is inferior to John?  And WHY?  I'd like to know.  Thanks. :o
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Penny Lane

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Re: Why do some John people dislike Paul so much?
« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2009, 01:04:12 AM »

All right...  And here are my personal thoughts on the issue...

I've done a lot of Beatle reading/research and I feel that John and Paul were 50/50 during their Beatle years.  During some periods, one personality may have dominated the group more than the other (and sometimes too much...*cough* Paul), but overall, they were equally great.  It really stuns me to hear some people say that "Lennon was the Beatles", like he was the be-all and end-all of the group.  Like, honestly?  No!  IMO, if you're a Beatles fan and you say that, it comes off sounding woefully ignorant.  Sorry if I sound harsh, but this is the kind of mentality that I just cannot understand.
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JimmyMcCullochFan

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Re: Why do some John people dislike Paul so much?
« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2009, 03:42:14 AM »

Maybe they are in the "Paul broke up the Beatles. John can't do no wrong crowd"?
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HeyJude18

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Re: Why do some John people dislike Paul so much?
« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2009, 04:51:26 AM »

Ok, so I'm a John fan but I have no sort of dislike for Paul.  I found that in his later songs with the Beatles (Abbey Road/Let It Be) that they were somewhat over the top or just plain silly.  John's songs on the other hand seemed to have a little more substance to them.  Then again, I like Paul's earlier stuff with the Beatles and then 1970-on.  That's just my opinion though.
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JimmyMcCullochFan

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Re: Why do some John people dislike Paul so much?
« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2009, 04:57:05 AM »

Quote from: 1447
Ok, so I'm a John fan but I have no sort of dislike for Paul.  I found that in his later songs with the Beatles (Abbey Road/Let It Be) that they were somewhat over the top or just plain silly.  John's songs on the other hand seemed to have a little more substance to them.  Then again, I like Paul's earlier stuff with the Beatles and then 1970-on.  That's just my opinion though.

What's your opinion on Two of Us, Let It Be, Golden Slumbers and You Never Give Me Your Money?
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Penny Lane

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Re: Why do some John people dislike Paul so much?
« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2009, 08:44:10 AM »

Quote from: 1447
I found that in his later songs with the Beatles (Abbey Road/Let It Be) that they were somewhat over the top or just plain silly.

I hope you won't fault Paul with the production for "The Long and Winding Road" (the originally released version)...that always sounded bad to me but we should blame Phil Spector.   :P

I do respect your opinion, though, but IMO, Paul did some great work during the late Beatles period.
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DaveRam

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Re: Why do some John people dislike Paul so much?
« Reply #6 on: March 20, 2009, 09:19:59 AM »

It's easy to dislike someone who's successful , good looking , is a good singer and  as a gift for melody and is filthy  rich to boot .
Makes me want to vomit  (wink1)
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HeyJude18

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Re: Why do some John people dislike Paul so much?
« Reply #7 on: March 20, 2009, 01:23:10 PM »

JMF - I think they're good but Let It Be has turned into too much of a sort of anthem, the catch all song for everything.

Penny - Oh I do blame Phil Spector...  he ruined what was supposed to be just a nice simple little song (judging by Let It Be... Naked)
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Kevin

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Re: Why do some John people dislike Paul so much?
« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2009, 01:59:29 PM »

Quote from: 1447
JMF - I think they're good but Let It Be has turned into too much of a sort of anthem, the catch all song for everything.


A bit like Imagine?
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Kevin

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Re: Why do some John people dislike Paul so much?
« Reply #9 on: March 20, 2009, 03:22:11 PM »

Quote from: 1447
I found that in his later songs with the Beatles (Abbey Road/Let It Be) that they were somewhat over the top or just plain silly.  John's songs on the other hand seemed to have a little more substance to them.  

I agree that Paul should be shot for Maxwell's Silver Hammer, which in my humble opinion is worsted only on Abbey Road by Octupus's Garden. But I think Paul more than redeemes himself with his part in the inception and crafting of the side two medley. Generally regarded as one of the Beatle's classic moments.  And to be honest I don't find either Polythene Pam or Mean Mr Mustard overly substantial (whatever that means.)
And let's face it, for Let It Be the best (or more importantly only) song John can stump up with is Dig A Pony? Paul carries that album, and although I do find the song Let It Be a tad over-wrought the rest of his contributions are fine.
 


 
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Re: Why do some John people dislike Paul so much?
« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2009, 09:45:02 PM »

I'm a John fan, and I really like Paul's work during The Beatles, but I really don't like his solo work while i love John's solo work (just a matter of taste) . But whilst The Beatles, I guess their input was 50/50 yeah.
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Mrs Lennon

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Re: Why do some John people dislike Paul so much?
« Reply #11 on: March 20, 2009, 09:56:01 PM »

Quote from: 1620
Do you dislike Paul?
              No.

Quote from: 1620
Do you think he is inferior to John?
              Not musical talent-wise.
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Penny Lane

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Re: Why do some John people dislike Paul so much?
« Reply #12 on: March 21, 2009, 01:12:51 AM »

Quote from: 185
And let's face it, for Let It Be the best (or more importantly only) song John can stump up with is Dig A Pony? Paul carries that album, and although I do find the song Let It Be a tad over-wrought the rest of his contributions are fine.

Wait a minute...  What about "Across the Universe" on that album?  One of John's finest moments?
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colleengirl95

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Re: Why do some John people dislike Paul so much?
« Reply #13 on: March 21, 2009, 02:05:39 AM »

Well for me as a John Lennon fan.... i don't dislike Paul at all. I mean when The Beatles were still together.... John and Paul really showed their musical talent so it was just equal .... for me that is like you've said 50/50. The two of them contributed a lot to the success of the band so it's equal .
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Jane

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Re: Why do some John people dislike Paul so much?
« Reply #14 on: March 21, 2009, 03:52:32 PM »

I love Paul, but I think I loved him more before I joined this forum. It was 50-50 between John and Paul. However, the aggressiveness of Paul`s fans and their aim to show John in the worst possible light here made me feel the unfairness of these strivings and made me think about John more, which helped me to get closer to him and to start loving him more. I am sure that today it`s vice versa, (if we agree that what Penny Lane said is true): John`s fans keep a low profile, while Paul`s come out everywhere trying to hurt with their comments. I can interprete it only in terms of jealousy. If it isn`t why don`t you let people love John?
Besides Rock is more dear to my heart than Pop, and John is much more Rock.
One idea - John perfectly fits the image of a rock star, while Paul doesn`t. He fits the image of a bourgeois pop star. He is more like Tom Jones, Cliff Richard, Leo Sayer, which is very good in itself, but farther from rock than Eric Clapton, Mick Jagger, John Lennon and Chris Martin are. Paul is very reasonable, even-tempered, well-balanced, a hands-on man, who always has a smile reserved for you, while the above heroes seem more natural, more open and even have a streak of "craziness" in them. I am not saying that one type is bad and the other is good, it`s all a matter of taste.
I am very sorry for these ideas, but I wanted to be honest with you. Honesty is the best policy.
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pc31

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Re: Why do some John people dislike Paul so much?
« Reply #15 on: March 21, 2009, 04:23:47 PM »

it is not that we hate him...we hate the fact paul fans go on and on about paul.... ;D

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Re: Why do some John people dislike Paul so much?
« Reply #16 on: March 21, 2009, 04:40:55 PM »

I have to say that I don't care overmuch for either of them personality-wise. John could be a nasty character in his private relations, in contrast to his grand public statements about how much better the world would be if only it had more people like him in it, etc, etc. And Paul the control-freak had an ego at least as big. And his "political" statements were naive beyond enduring. In fact all the Beatles were excruciating when they took on the preaching role. Think Bono - only worse. There ought to be a law setting limits on how rich you can be before you have to shut up about the world's problems. But when it comes to "Paul haters" and "John haters", I don't think the rivalry has much respect for facts. The mud-slinging is the same kind you get  between rival football teams. Insult for the sake of insult. Pointless.
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Penny Lane

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Re: Why do some John people dislike Paul so much?
« Reply #17 on: March 21, 2009, 08:14:24 PM »

Quote from: 1393
However, the aggressiveness of Paul`s fans and their aim to show John in the worst possible light here made me feel the unfairness of these strivings and made me think about John more, which helped me to get closer to him and to start loving him more. I am sure that today it`s vice versa, (if we agree that what Penny Lane said is true): John`s fans keep a low profile, while Paul`s come out everywhere trying to hurt with their comments. I can interprete it only in terms of jealousy. If it isn`t why don`t you let people love John?

I don't have a problem with John fans loving John.  I hope you don't think I'm trying to get people to like John less.  It's just that I think some people underrate the contributions made to the Beatles by Paul (and George and Ringo) in comparison to John, and I wanted to get more insight into that.
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Dr Robert

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Re: Why do some John people dislike Paul so much?
« Reply #18 on: March 21, 2009, 08:53:47 PM »

I'll bite, I guess.

If you look at the early songs that sort of defined the Beatles and that most fans would associate with Beatle popularity, they're overwhelmingly Lennon cuts (Please Please Me, Help!, Ticket to Ride, I Want to Hold Your Hand, Twist and Shout, A Hard Day's Night, I Feel Fine) with only a few exceptions. Paul was always a great songwriter, but it wasn't until Sgt. Pepper, I feel, that Paul emerged as a songwriting talent near or equal to the level of Lennon. Then, after Brian Epstein died, it all started to unravel. Paul felt it was his duty to "rally the troops" and made himself the unofficial Beatles leader. Lennon got tired of it, as did Harrison. As Lennon said in an interview, "We all got fed up with being side-men for Paul." Paul became more and more picky with his music and less open for input from his bandmates. If you look at Paul during the Let It Be sessions, he looks like an arrogant ass, and it all sort of comes to a climax with his arguing with George Harrison during the infamous scene about the guitar part of "I've Got A Feeling."

(If you want my opinion, I've Got A Feeling is George Harrison at his finest. Listen to the song, every second of it, focusing only on George's guitar. I truly believe it is one of the finest examples of great guitar work on any song. Any time I hear it, I want to give Paul the middle finger and say, "Stick it up your arse, Paul. George's work here is genius.")

Paul wanted so desperately to be the true leader of the Beatles. Perhaps better put, he wanted to be the true leader of ANY band. After Paul left the Beatles, he got his wish. He started a band where he was the headliner and the rest of the band members were only sidemen.

(As an aside, besides diehard McCartney fans, how many people can name any member of Wings besides Paul? I know I can't. But, funny enough, when Wings plays in concerts, the songs they play are overwhelmingly Beatles songs. That's interesting when you think that Paul was with the Beatles for only about 10 years and has been with Wings for nearly 40.)

So the beef we have with Paul, in a nutshell, is that once he became a great songwriter he tried to turn the rest of the Beatles into Wings. Though John is also guilty of this, I feel that he also stifled George to the point where it became unbearable for him to be a member of the band. His role in the Beatles was and always should have been a notch below John's, and once Paul tried to change that, the Beatles unraveled.

I should add that the above post is just my opinion, and I know there are glaring inaccuracies and biases in what I have just written. I just tried to sum up the "Anti-Paul group's" perception of McCartney as best as I could. If someone were to critique Lennon, they could write pages and pages about him and his relationship with Yoko and how detrimental it all was to the Beatles, and there would be little room for argument. It all depends on which band member you like more and whose side you tend to fall on. I am and always will be biased toward John and George.
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Jane

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Re: Why do some John people dislike Paul so much?
« Reply #19 on: March 21, 2009, 09:09:11 PM »

Quote from: 1620

I don't have a problem with John fans loving John.  I hope you don't think I'm trying to get people to like John less.  It's just that I think some people underrate the contributions made to the Beatles by Paul (and George and Ringo) in comparison to John, and I wanted to get more insight into that.

No, Penny Lane, not you, you are not trying to do it. I have never thought that the other Beatles contributions were less. For me they are one unit, which would have never succeeded with one element missing. I think that John`s fans treat all the Beatles equally, they know that John is better (not because he was better actually, but because they love him more, since they are his fans) and follow his legacy. Why don`t Paul`s fans follow suit? Relax and stop their percentage calculations to prove that Paul is better. That causes a negative reaction. John`s fans never calculate which of them did what and which of them made more films. If there`s another film about Macca`s concert they wouldn`t say a word. Why not have 100, 1000, 10000 films about Paul. Or his love affairs. They do not criticise Paul.
But Paul`s fans seem to be very jealous of everything connected with John and criticise him all the way. Put him down. Why? Relax. You know that Paul is better, for the same reason that John`s fans know John is better. Nobody is better, George was as great as each of our heroes, and Ringo is not trailing behind, BTW.  
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