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Author Topic: Big Bang v Big Man (or Woman)  (Read 12710 times)

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Jane

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Re: Big Bang v Big Man (or Woman)
« Reply #20 on: June 11, 2009, 06:38:56 PM »

Quote from: 1997
Well, you can't deny Jesus's words, they actually exist. Whoever said those words of wisdom is my God, and it seems that Jesus did. Actually, according to the Bible, God is the Word.

It seems that this is true. Seems, because I am also being careful like Hombre.
It is not that universe was created first, about which Kevin wonders. It is that WORD came first. Not material things, but spiritual things or thing. First WORD and thus REASON. Then Reasonable creation of everything. Material things.

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Hombre_de_ningun_lugar

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Re: Big Bang v Big Man (or Woman)
« Reply #21 on: June 11, 2009, 06:47:43 PM »

Quote from: 1393

It seems that this is true. Seems, because I am also being careful like Hombre.
It is not that universe was created first, about which Kevin wonders. It is that WORD came first. Not material things, but spiritual things or thing. First WORD and thus REASON. Then Reasonable creation of everything. Material things.


You're right, Jane. Nothing can exist without the Word. Everything we can feel with our physical senses could be an illusion, but we certainly know that the Word is real because it's inside us.
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Mairi

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Re: Big Bang v Big Man (or Woman)
« Reply #22 on: June 11, 2009, 09:29:19 PM »

I may be in the minority when I say this, but I think there can be a happy medium between religion and science. The bible has been translated and re-translated so many times, who are we to take it literally? When it's said that it took seven years for God to make the earth, maybe that was just symbolic. Maybe that really meant millions of years.

In any case, I do believe in something bigger. I studied philosophy this year and it really made me question some of my beliefs, while at the same time affirming some others. It's too bad that so many people have to see these things in black and white. Even Pope John Paul II believed in evolution, unless The Simpsons has been lying to me.
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alexis

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Re: Big Bang v Big Man (or Woman)
« Reply #23 on: June 11, 2009, 09:29:19 PM »

Quote from: 1997

You're right, Jane. Nothing can exist without the Word. Everything we can feel with our physical senses could be an illusion, but we certainly know that the Word is real because it's inside us.


Ain't it ironic that it was John who wrote: "The Word is Love".

I believe in the God of the Bible. I also believe that the half-naked savage in the bush who prays to a god of Life and Peace is worshipping the same thing. I believe that our scientists are discovering the workings of God's universe. I believe that man and dinosaurs roamed the earth together, just a few thousand years after it was created: http://creationmuseum.org/  
 http://creationmuseum.org/whats-here/exhibits/

OK, I don't believe that last one. But I do believe that we all have homework here on earth, and that is to try to be as good to each other as we can. Realistically, at least for me, that means more like trying to fail miserably at that task as little as possible. I do believe in the biblical Jesus, and in life after death, and I'm pretty sure I believe in some version of Heaven if you're good (with permanent front row seats at all Beatles venues, including Quarry Bank High School, and gigging with the boys in various hotel rooms in 1964).  But I don't believe that people who don't share these beliefs are necessarily condemned to an eternity of Wayne Newton.

I can't justify these things, but they are there. I kind of think it doesn't really matter if someone believes these things or not, so long as they practice Love of fellow man. Jesus, ...?..., Ghandi, MLK, they are all tapping into the same thing. And somehow the Beatles felt Love was the key to life also. To me, that's pretty cool.

BTW, I follow the string theory and expanding universe stuff closely too. My theory is that every thing that has happened since the beginning of time also occured in an infinite number of different ways in an infinite number of different universes. So in one universe, I'm going to hit "Post" in about 1 minute. In another I say this is all too silly to commit to the internet, and I hit delete. In yet another, just before I hit send, I'm struck down by a flaming pie. Taken too far, this kind of thinking can make you crazy because then it really doesn't matter what we do, because an infinite number of other "us"-es will do it differently, covering all the bases.

And sometimes I think we are all one fraction of some sort of a translational rotation from anywhere, or anytime. Sort of like one of George's songs. Whoops, this is sounding a bit like one of those nutcase posters who like to visit now and then. Maybe I should just delete all this ...
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Alexis

Hombre_de_ningun_lugar

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Re: Big Bang v Big Man (or Woman)
« Reply #24 on: June 11, 2009, 10:06:33 PM »

Quote from: 218
I may be in the minority when I say this, but I think there can be a happy medium between religion and science. The bible has been translated and re-translated so many times, who are we to take it literally? When it's said that it took seven years for God to make the earth, maybe that was just symbolic. Maybe that really meant millions of years.

In any case, I do believe in something bigger. I studied philosophy this year and it really made me question some of my beliefs, while at the same time affirming some others. It's too bad that so many people have to see these things in black and white. Even Pope John Paul II believed in evolution, unless The Simpsons has been lying to me.

Actually the evidences that support the evolution theory also support the biblical narration of the creation. Just see the order the things were created: light; plants; animals in the sea; animals on the earth; humanity.
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Hombre_de_ningun_lugar

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Re: Big Bang v Big Man (or Woman)
« Reply #25 on: June 11, 2009, 10:07:48 PM »

Quote from: 568
Ain't it ironic that it was John who wrote: "The Word is Love".

I always thought that "The Word" was about the Bible, even if John didn't mean that.
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fendertele

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Re: Big Bang v Big Man (or Woman)
« Reply #26 on: June 11, 2009, 10:22:56 PM »

Quote from: 218
I may be in the minority when I say this, but I think there can be a happy medium between religion and science. The bible has been translated and re-translated so many times, who are we to take it literally? When it's said that it took seven years for God to make the earth, maybe that was just symbolic. Maybe that really meant millions of years.

In any case, I do believe in something bigger. I studied philosophy this year and it really made me question some of my beliefs, while at the same time affirming some others. It's too bad that so many people have to see these things in black and white. Even Pope John Paul II believed in evolution, unless The Simpsons has been lying to me.


This is what i was going for earlier, that both Scientists and Religion figures will ignore the others beliefs even if it makes more sense than there own, blind faith/ignorance. I belive we were created by a greater being but i dont believe in the whole Adam and Eve stuff, i also believe we did evolve and we may have also came from a big bang, but that bang was planned.

So i too believe in the big cross over and wish that both Science and Religion could also recognise that both there beliefs are flawed and work together for a greater explanation
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Mairi

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Re: Big Bang v Big Man (or Woman)
« Reply #27 on: June 12, 2009, 12:07:25 AM »

Well said fendertele!
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Sondra

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Re: Big Bang v Big Man (or Woman)
« Reply #28 on: June 13, 2009, 06:09:42 PM »

I would love to believe there was a higher power looking out for us, but human nature tells me it was just our ego that created "him." But really, there are things just too big for us to understand, so who am I to say anything is or isn't.
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pc31

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Re: Big Bang v Big Man (or Woman)
« Reply #29 on: June 13, 2009, 06:25:44 PM »

well a controlled bang is what i like  ;)....there was some sort of randomess in the beginning...i don't think the bang theory applies as an experiment...the only way they can measure distance is from point of origin...that means here...anything measured would seem to be traveling away from us...i side with science because religion is too organized....choas is how nature reacts to castrophy....the bang if occurred was a natural occurence,as natural as it was random....i can't believe the planned part...as for life else wheres...yes...this universe could be full of life and we are the ignorant ones,ig being not advanced enough to percieve,be it with a guage,machine,faith,will or some other device.....we can only see what we realize is real.....i believe that jesus was on this earth as for him being an offspring of a devine god,i don't believe it...but it sure gives an uncanny faith to those who believe it,so why dis it...it helps develope faith which is what rationality needs...you can have faith with out it,i do.....as for god...i believe in surperior life but not to the god sense...the words are great wisdoms but time is so old already..noone knows where it all comes from...gifts and comforts collected for survival do deserve some type off homage...but why should the church recieve it...i can deliver my extra spoils better than they...
the missing link seems to be a truth type deal but for whose race really????the saline solution i was in for nine months in my moms belly tells me water is involved in my total being..we are mostly water...with all the things we depend on water for,can you believe how we abuse it???water to me is a god...not to be sacrelidge because i do intend it most times...i would like to discuss this without the church because i believe in evolution not creation......if it was creation,it was scientific....evolution is a tricky word tho..things change to adapt...can you say it evolved if it happened for adapability?
conditions shape evolution factors so they are not actual evolutions...
definitions from human reality is only useable by us...our reality is just ours...other life forms besides our will have no use for them...confused? live with honor is all i can say...be true to your word...

pc31

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Re: Big Bang v Big Man (or Woman)
« Reply #30 on: June 13, 2009, 06:28:00 PM »

Quote from: 216
I would love to believe there was a higher power looking out for us, but human nature tells me it was just our ego that created "him." But really, there are things just too big for us to understand, so who am I to say anything is or isn't.
fence walker!!! ;)

Jane

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Re: Big Bang v Big Man (or Woman)
« Reply #31 on: June 14, 2009, 05:10:32 PM »

Our mind is imperfect. It is incomparable with the Higher Mind or Reason (or God), which created everything. That is why we will never be able to understand God or our world to the full. No matter how hard we try to do it, no matter how much we try to develop science and combine it with religion, we will fail to understand it all. That is why we speak about faith. Understanding refers to science, faith, belief refer to religion. And a person is free to choose. It`s up to a person to believe or not, because nobody is able to explain where everything came from or prove the existense of God. But the paradox is that great scientists, physicists, mathematicians were and are religious people. At one point they come to accepting religion. This has always perplexed me. And it is true that even Darvin was religious. Which means that religion and science do not contradict each other but complement.
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DaveRam

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Re: Big Bang v Big Man (or Woman)
« Reply #32 on: June 15, 2009, 09:44:17 AM »

Why does it after to be a big bang , it could just as easy have been a small bang or a slight ripple in time that sparked it all off  ?
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Kevin

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Re: Big Bang v Big Man (or Woman)
« Reply #33 on: June 15, 2009, 09:48:33 AM »

Quote from: 971
Why does it after to be a big bang , it could just as easy have been a small bang or a slight ripple in time ?

Because this is what the evidence indicates.
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DaveRam

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Re: Big Bang v Big Man (or Woman)
« Reply #34 on: June 15, 2009, 10:06:39 AM »

Quote from: 185

Because this is what the evidence indicates.

Some evidence maybe , but their is not enough matter in the universe according to some to support a big bang theory , think the boffin's are now talking about "String" theory as they could'nt make the big bang theory add up ?
Looks to me like they have'nt got a clue and God still holds the answer to the big question , maybe they should  just take the dog for a walk and get a life ?

(teeth1)
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Kevin

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Re: Big Bang v Big Man (or Woman)
« Reply #35 on: June 15, 2009, 10:18:16 AM »

Quote from: 971

Looks to me like they have'nt got a clue and God still holds the answer to the big question , maybe they should  just take the dog for a walk and get a life ?

(teeth1)

In the Big Cluedo Game that is life I don't think you can say God did it just because some of the other answers don't add up. I think to say "hmm - not enough matter in the universe to support The Big Bang (for which their is some compelling evidence) therefore it can't be true - therefore it must have been made by a supernatural being (for which the evidence is zilch) is a bit silly.
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Kevin

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Re: Big Bang v Big Man (or Woman)
« Reply #36 on: June 15, 2009, 10:32:40 AM »

One thing I want to push - whether or not The Big Bang or any other scientific answer about the universe's origins can be proven correct DOES NOT alter the fact that evolution proves beyond doubt that man is descended from a common ancestor of the ape.
And is it not a basic tenant of the bible that god created man in his own image? If it is so wrong on this one basic issue, how can you so unquestionably accept the rest of it? Don't you EVER go "hang on a bit...made woman out of a rib? That don't seem right????"
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DaveRam

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Re: Big Bang v Big Man (or Woman)
« Reply #37 on: June 15, 2009, 10:55:19 AM »

 ^^^^I think there is evidence to support Evolution Kevin , but thats more within our control to examine , we can dig things up and Carbon date things , it's Earth bound science ?
The Big Bang theory or String theory is about the wider universe and i'm not sure we have the tools to examine it , yes we have the Huble telescope and  the space station  and some great minds on Earth .
But until we do some serious deep space travel and collect and examine things , everthing is just Earth bound theory as far as i can see .
My feeling is we are still in the foothills when it comes to our knowledge of the universe .
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Kevin

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Re: Big Bang v Big Man (or Woman)
« Reply #38 on: June 15, 2009, 12:04:12 PM »

agree with that Dave.
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Hombre_de_ningun_lugar

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Re: Big Bang v Big Man (or Woman)
« Reply #39 on: June 15, 2009, 02:39:54 PM »

Quote from: 185
One thing I want to push - whether or not The Big Bang or any other scientific answer about the universe's origins can be proven correct DOES NOT alter the fact that evolution proves beyond doubt that man is descended from a common ancestor of the ape.
And is it not a basic tenant of the bible that god created man in his own image? If it is so wrong on this one basic issue, how can you so unquestionably accept the rest of it? Don't you EVER go "hang on a bit...made woman out of a rib? That don't seem right????"

I don't see why understanding the origin of the universe would deny the existence of God. I think it would just be a "technical explanation" of how God created everything.

About the evolution theory, it's not true that it was proven beyond doubt. The adaptation of a particular specie is certainly a solid theory, but the evolution from one specie to other still has some holes. If the evidence is that humans and monkeys have almost similar DNA chains (about 97% of coincidence), I could say that God used similar tools to create almost similar life. You can read the evidence in different ways.

Anyway, I don't think that the Bible would be descridited if the evolution theory were proven; just read the chapter 1 of Genesis: the order of things that were created is the same order according to the evolution theory. You must think that Genesis was written about 3500 years ago, to people from that time, so don't ask for scientific explanations. Thus, you shouldn't read the Bible so literally. And the Bible says that God created man in his own image because man was created to govern on Earth.

About the rib, the non-literal interpretation could be that God used part of the DNA information of man to create woman, since the Y chromosome of man has less information than the X chromosomes.

I could be a bit subjective in my opinion because of my faith (which is not blind but based on the light from words of wisdom), but everybody is subjective at one point. The subjective premise of atheists is that God does not exist: that's the most blind faith.
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