Was G. Martin wrong, or did Ringo get better really quickly?

[alexis]

^^

Devil's advocate here - no telling how much growth potential Pete Best had in him in June, 1962, might be as fair to label him a mediocre drummer as it would be to do the same to Ringo from the same time. Bottom line is: George Martin, canned 'em both, contemporary accounts didn't seem to scream that Pete Best was anything but good enough to be on stage with the Beatles, and listening to the Decca tapes don't really show any problems with Pete Best's drumming at all.

OK, enough pot-stirring. Here's a wiki-factoid - Did you all know that the Decca audition was 15 songs recorded in about an hour of studio time?

Seems to me that any band that could play that many songs in a row without mistakes should be good enough to sign no matter what!!

(I'm in a band that some people think is pretty good to dance and drink to, and it took us 14 hours to do record 8 songs in a studio, and it was full of mistakes. So I'm VERY impressed. Who are those boys?).

[Bobber]

They had played the songs for hundreds of times. Shouldn't be too big a problem to do that one more time. Pete's drums on the Decca Tapes sound as if he's as bored as the other three. Paul's voice is pretty good to me, the rest is not really.

[Jane]

Pete's drums on the Decca Tapes sound as if he's as bored as the other three.

They all were nervous. They seem bored which actually is tight and reserved. Just didn`t give vent to.

[tkitna]

To be honest, I probably wouldnt have signed them either. The audition was all wrong. I think the song selection stunk and they were all tired when they did it anyways from being up all night. Theres nothing there that indicates they were going to be anything special. I have to give Dick Rowe a pass on that one.

[tkitna]

Bottom line is: George Martin, canned 'em both,

Not playing on two songs is hardly being canned. Martin later said he regretted that decision. He never said he regretted canning pete though.

Seems to me that any band that could play that many songs in a row without mistakes should be good enough to sign no matter what!!

Even if the songs sucked?

[Jane]

Not playing on two songs is hardly being canned. Martin later said he regretted that decision. He never said he regretted canning pete though.

He would never say it even if he did regret. I remember Bill Harry wrote that Martin and Ringo kind of wink to each other as regards the subject why Pete was dismissed. I believe nobody would tell the truth, they would leave as it is. But Martin did say he wondered why Pete had been dismissed. He just meant him out for studio recording.

[alexis]

Not playing on two songs is hardly being canned. Martin later said he regretted that decision. He never said he regretted canning pete though.

Even if the songs sucked?

Here's the song list, from wiki:

   1. "Like Dreamers Do" (Lennon/McCartney)
   2. "Money (That's What I Want)" (Gordy/Bradford)
   3. "Till There Was You" (Meredith Wilson)
   4. "The Sheik of Araby" (Smith/Wheeler/Snyder)
   5. "To Know Her Is to Love Her" (Phil Spector)
   6. "Take Good Care of My Baby" (King/Goffin)
   7. "Memphis, Tennessee" (Chuck Berry)
   8. "Sure to Fall (In Love with You)" (Cantrell/Claunch/Perkins)
   9. "Hello Little Girl" (Lennon/McCartney)
  10. "Three Cool Cats" (Leiber/Stoller)
  11. "Crying, Waiting, Hoping" (Buddy Holly)
  12. "Love of the Loved" (Lennon/McCartney)
  13. "September in the Rain" (Warren/Dubin)
  14. "Bésame Mucho" (Consuelo Velázquez)
  15. "Searchin'" (Leiber/Stoller)

Of these 15: 3 made it on to official Beatles Albums, and of the others:
-This version of "To Know Her is to Love Her" might be the best ever recorded in my book.
- Three Lennon-McCartney originals. 
- The really cute "Sheik of Araby" (IMO).
- Great harmonies on "Take Good Care of my Baby" - Goffin-King influence huge here!

Sure there were some clunkers on this set list, but I wouldn't go all out and say the songs sucked. But more to the point I was trying to make, it's not easy to be good at such diverse styles (Latin rhythms in "Besame ...", Chuck Berry and "Money" rockers, Phil Spector 3 part harmony Ballad, straight up Goffin-King pop), and to record them all virtually flawlessly in one hour (which I would think means about one take each) is pretty impressive.

I would have been intrigued enough to think of signing them. Makes me wonder - what did George Martin listen when he decided to bring them in for a trial recording - these very same Decca tapes?

P.S. Anyone got a link to "Love of the Loved" - I can't remember hearing that ...

[tkitna]

Of these 15: 3 made it on to official Beatles Albums

'Till There Was You' (love that tune), and 'Money' (most other bands do it better imo),,,,what other one am I missing?

it's not easy to be good at such diverse styles (Latin rhythms in "Besame ...", Chuck Berry and "Money" rockers, Phil Spector 3 part harmony Ballad, straight up Goffin-King pop),

I think it hurt them in this case. Probably seemed like they had no direction or identity.

Makes me wonder - what did George Martin listen when he decided to bring them in for a trial recording - these very same Decca tapes?

Yes, he listened to the Decca tape and he thought it was pretty lousy too. The only thing that saved the Beatles was John and Pauls voices and Epsteins begging. Also, lets try to remember that Martin was a showtune man and not much of a pop band person so the Beatles were scrapping the bottem of the barrel at this point. It just happened to work out.

[Ged]

I thought it was quite simply that Ringo was not tried and tested, new on the scene as far as George Martin was concerned and so he set up his own session drummer as he'd not heard Ringo play and didn't want to chance it. He palyed on the album version of the same song recorded later though.

[Kevin]

To be honest, I probably wouldnt have signed them either. The audition was all wrong. I think the song selection stunk and they were all tired when they did it anyways from being up all night. Theres nothing there that indicates they were going to be anything special. I have to give Dick Rowe a pass on that one.

My understanding has always been - and there's a quote floating out there somewhere - that George Martin was looking for a "blank canvas" to work with. He wanted a band who's sound he could mould. And lets face it - he found it with The Beatles. They were keen, likeable, looked good, and as everyone seems to agree, were without a definable sound or direction.

[tkitna]

My understanding has always been - and there's a quote floating out there somewhere - that George Martin was looking for a "blank canvas" to work with. He wanted a band who's sound he could mould. And lets face it - he found it with The Beatles. They were keen, likeable, looked good, and as everyone seems to agree, were without a definable sound or direction.

Your probably right, but I have always thought that Martin was appointed to the Beatles and wasnt real thrilled about it. Should be easy enough to find out, but i'm busy looking up songs I have to learn for church Sunday so give me a little time on this one.