So its been three years since the twin towers were destroyed. (I understand for those not in the U.S. it might not make much of a difference in your life)

What pisses me off to no end is that not only did we lose so many lives because of the towers collapsing but now we have to send people over to Iraq and more are losing lives still because of it.  I didn't lose anyone in the towers close to me but on 9-11 I hung out with 6 guys all going to Iraq on the 6th of October..... for two years.  Here I have been hanging out with friends for about 7 months, they have been there for me, visited me in the hospital, hell every single one of them sent me flowers.  And whats really sad is there is a good chance one might not even come back and Im extreamly close with one of them.  And what blows my mind is three are 18 two are 19 and one is 22.    It is just nutts thinking someone my age is going to possibly lose their life. But I guess war has always been like that.

Honestly I am being extreamly selfish. These boys signed up knowing what they were doing but wanting to  help their country and here I am complaining when they arn't.


Sorry, guess I had to rant just a little bit.   

You're friends are not in Iraq because of 9/11.  However i understand your frustration, I lost an older friend in Iraq myself.  War truly is a horrible thing.

It would be easier to support the war if we were sure of the motives of us being over there. It's become unclear to many. Anyway, I think 911 affected the world. We're certainly not the only ones fighting over there.  You know, I never thought I'd see our county go to war in my lifetime. It shows just how safe we all felt. Boy were we wrong.

I may not be American but 9-11 did affect Canadians. Our soldiers were sent to Afghanistan. We had four of them killed in a friendly fire incident. One of those soldiers killed was the husband of one of my coworkers. I too think that 9-11 affected the world.

If it was my decision I would order our troops to go over there and take out every single government building, all the tv, radio towers etc and then tell them to elect a new leader and rebuild.

Quoted from Ssarah, posted September 14, 2004, 4:31am at here

If it was my decision I would order our troops to go over there and take out every single government building, all the tv, radio towers etc and then tell them to elect a new leader and rebuild.

LOL...you know, that just could work!

The American Way of thinking....nothing like it.

American Way of thinking?  Actually I have heard more people say things like....lets just Nuke um like we did Japan. etc.    But really...its not the peoples fault in Iraq its their government. 

You're not being guilty for not wanting your friends sent to Iraq.  People in this country sign up for military service knowing they can be sent to war, but they do it under the promise that they won't be sent into combat unless it's absolutely necessary to protect OUR freedom.  And what are they doing to protect OUR freedom?  Absolutely nothing.  They're dying to secure the financial assets of the Bush family alone, and that's no reason for more than a thousand American soldiers to die. 

Vote Kerry 2004!!!

Bush isn't my favorite person but I think we do need to do something about Iraq's government. I think he is just doing it the wrong way perhaps your right---to secure the financial assets of the Bush family.    I think we could do it quicker and even if we do happen to kill some innocent people in Iraq...in the long run we will lose less then if we do what we are doing now. 

But I think if we warned them hey, we are going the bomb the hell out of your government buildings so stay in your house I dont think many innocent would die. I just can't see why they are being sent there for two years? Can anyone explain that to me? Does the Army really think this "War" will be going on that long?

Quoted from Ssarah, posted September 13, 2004, 6:46pm at here

So its been three years since the twin towers were destroyed. (I understand for those not in the U.S. it might not make much of a difference in your life) 

Wrong... I live in the Netherlands and after 9-11 I lost my job TWICE within a year. because 9-11 had a terrible effect on our economy as well.

Yeah I understand it effected lots of people, I just didn't want anyone to feel obligated or feel like they had to care or act like they had to care. It's a touchy subject.

What really pisses me off about the American attitude towards 9-11 and the war for oi... oops, I mean "war on terror" (which was to my opinion a direct result of 9-11), is that Americans only talk about the Americans that died on 9-11 and the Americans that died in Iraq, while they simply forget about the much higher number of INNOCENT citizens of Iraq and Afghanistan that got killed after 9-11... America just doesn't seem to care about that and that makes me sick.

I know not all Americans are like that though, and don't get me wrong, this is no personal attack on anyone here and I absolutely don't want to disrespect the victims of 9-11 and the war in Iraq...

I think part of that is when we were attacked it was a cheap shot... we wern't really expecting it.    When we went into this "War" everyone knew innocent people were going to die.  But I agree that innocent people being killed no matter where they live is bad.  That's why I think we should bomb their government, TV, Radio stations etc and pull out and give them a chance to elect a better leader that wont get their innocent people killed and to rebuild.

but surely there's a better way to help a contry than bomb it. if that happened they wouldnt go peacefully into a democratic election. it'd be marshall law an there would be chaos on the streets. chances are some other lunatic would get power. the war on terror's a good idea but terror is such an abstract concept. you can never get rid of it. some people would say israel is a terroist state. look wat happened in russia, america isnt getting involved in that. there's not really any al quada activity in iraq. most of them are based in the US.

Well if that happened we'd have to just scare the hell out of them.  make them see that they better now bomb anyone else. 


We nuked Japan....they backed off...why? Because they were scared. We need to scare Iraq.  Survival of the fittest?

maybe. but would you like to live in a world were everyone was scared of getting nuked?

First and foremost let's not confuse 9-11 with the war in Iraq, they are completely diffrent. Little Bush went into office with an agenda and at the top of that agenda was Iraq, not al queerda. Memo's from the Clinton admin. talking about bin laden and the use of commercial airlines in terroism attacks on the USA Had been given to  "dubya" for his first cabinent meeting, only to be dismissed by "dubya". His only interest was in Iraq. These are not my opinions, they are facts from former cabinent members that attended that meeting. This was carried over from the bush sr admin. Sort of revenge, if you will.

Quoted from Ssarah, posted September 14, 2004, 6:42pm at here

Well if that happened we'd have to just scare the hell out of them.  make them see that they better now bomb anyone else.  


We nuked Japan....they backed off...why? Because they were scared. We need to scare Iraq.   Survival of the fittest?

Ssarah, we bombed Japan because we were ruuning out of resource's and men to fight. Remember we also were fighting in the European theatre also. Not to prove a point or to scare the hell out of anyone. It was a last resort.

Quoted from Kiss_My_Bad_Self, posted September 14, 2004, 8:05pm at here

maybe. but would you like to live in a world were everyone was scared of getting nuked?

This is exactlty what the "W" admin. wants you to think. If your scared you will re-elect him, just as cheney said if bush was not re-elected we were due to be"hit" again by al queerda. Once again making you think bush is the only one that can scare off that middle eastern "boogie man osamabinforgotten". This was the same b.s. reagan used about Russia in the early to late 80s. When in fact Russia was just as scared of us. If reagan was not in office Russia would  bomb the hell out us, only at that time voters believed the hype. Hopefully we can see through that bunch of garbage this time.

We nuked Japan....they backed off...why? Because they were scared. We need to scare Iraq.  Survival of the fittest?*



I genuinely believe the Americans (and English) are petrified of the far east, such an unbalanced diverse and 'different' culture. Mind-sets are different, and I feel when it comes to War...the likes of Japan etc are well-advised in the 'mad-house tactics'

I think that America should've stayed away from Iraq. America didn't and doesn't belong there. Sure Saddam was a very evil man that needed to be removed, but let's face it: there are a couple of dozen countries in the world that have a cruel and unjust dictator, and of all these dictators the US removed just one and that also happens to be the dictator of the richest of all those countries. Coincidence? I think not... There are plenty of poor African, Southern American and Asian countries with cruel dictators, and do you think Bush would even consider burning his fingers on any of them? Of course not. And a terrorist threat from Iraq? That was obviously a lie. Bush claimed he was absolutely sure there were chemical weapons in Iraq and to this day, he hasn't been able to show any convincing evidence to justify his suspicion.

It's time to accept that the Middle East has a culture of it's own and that the West has a culture of it's own, and that we're NEVER going to understand each other. We think their culture is evil, they think the same of our culture, and they're not going to change their minds no matter what and neither are we. Sure the Middle East has some really fucked up stuff going on, but that's something they're going to have to take care of by themselves, because it's obvious that they simply DON'T WANT us Western people running their countries, which I think it totally understandable (which by the way certainly doesn't mean that I'm trying to justify any terrorist actions).

The US government tries to make us believe that there is absolutely no way that we can stop terrorists. That's a lie, cause there is a way and they know it: we should get our asses out of those people's countries and stop interfering with their politics, and I can guarantee you that there'll be no more Al Qaida terrorism in the Western world. That's how it works in this world: if you don't want trouble with certain people, the best way to not get trouble is to leave them alone.

Quoted from Kiss_My_Bad_Self, posted September 14, 2004, 8:05pm at here

maybe. but would you like to live in a world were everyone was scared of getting nuked?

How do you think all those Iraqi's felt when Bush was bombing their cities to the ground? What kind of world do you think they want to live in?

Quoted from RICKENBACKER325, posted September 14, 2004, 8:34pm at here

First and foremost let's not confuse 9-11 with the war in Iraq, they are completely diffrent.

Even if they are, it's a fact that Bush used 9-11 as the main excuse to start the war in Iraq.

And I hate to say it (and please don't get me wrong), but in a way 9-11 was a blessing for Bush. Because 9-11 gave Bush a very powerful tool in his hands: it scared the sh*t out of the masses. And history has tought us that if there's one effective way to control the masses, it's to scare the sh*t out of them. Look at communism: be different and you'll be removed from society. So they stay in line. Look at Christianity: don't live by the bible and you'll burn in hell. So they stay in line. Look at the USA nowadays: don't re-elect Bush and terrorists will bomb your house. It's clear to see that Bush is using the terrorist threat to get anything he wants. Give up your privacy right, or the terrorists will get us! Let us bomb innocent civilians in far foreign countries, or the terrorists will get us! Re-elect me, or the terrorists will get us! Allow us to arrest Arabians living in the US without a valid reason, or the terrorists will get us!

Oh, I hope I'm not offending anyone here by the way... I just have very strong opinions about this subject and it's very hard for me not to give them because this subject is just too damn important.

And I don't hate the USA. Just it's government.

If they didn't send terrorists then we wouldn't have to bomb them... Ok so lets say 9-11 happened and we turn the other cheek say who gives a care. If we leave them alone they will leave us alone.... umm not the point is they didn't leave us alone in the first place. And then they will do it again...and again and again.  There are countrys with bad leaders that we leave alone you are right on that. But they are leaving us along as well. 

Its like a little kid... you have to tell them NO or they will do it again. You have to have some kind of punishment. We might not like their ways but atleast we don't have someone on every single one of our television channels saying... Iraq is bad... They are using TV and Radio over there to brain wash their people. 



<<Ssarah, we bombed Japan because we were ruuning out of resource's and men to fight. >>


If we had not bombed them even more people would have died. It ended the war and although it is brutal I think it was for the best.

Quoted from Biscuit_Power, posted September 14, 2004, 10:09pm at here

Oh, I hope I'm not offending anyone here by the way... I just have very strong opinions about this subject and it's very hard for me not to give them because this subject is just too damn important.

And I don't hate the USA. Just it's government.

Don't worry about it, I can debate something without getting personal.

9-11 was a blessing to the little sawed off prick bush, because everything else he did was in the toilet, loss of jobs, economy in deep recession, spriraling energy cost. and no way to see the light and the end of the tunnel. I think were saying the same thing just in differnet points. Also right after 9-11 if you disagreed with "dubya" you were unpatriotic, what I wanted to know was when did bush become the patriot that every other American was measured by? It was easy for him to use 9-11 as an excuse. When he could'nt link al queerda to saddam, it was weapons of mass destruction, oh wait they did not find any, then it was liberate the Iraqi people. Well we have seen how much they want us there. Insurgents have retaken three major cities back and were getting our boys killed every day to protect W's oil field assets with little or no help from those Iraqi people that were going to throw rose's at our feet when we got there. Ssarah, yes we had to bomb Japan to end WWII, if not, your right there massive casualties do to the prolonged effort. As I said it was the last resort.

I do believe there are people who want to be liberated. However those are the ones that are going to keep quiet and are scared.  The ones that are going to stand out are the ones who don't want to be liberated and who are going to plant the car bombs etc etc.  Thats why I think we should just bomb the gov. there and let them start all over.

^^Great plan, bomb the hell out of all their institutins and let them deal with it.  SSarah, can you even imagine someone doing that to us???  We would never recover fully. 

Ssarah, we already took out saddams government, there's no goverment to bomb! What we are dealing with now are loyalist to saddam and other muslim factions that want to control Iraq the same way as saddam did. Can you tell the difference between someone who's loyal to saddam and someone who's not just by looking at them? For that matter can you tell the difference between the muslim factions that want rule over Iraq from the ones that dont? To do what your saying we would have to kill them all and let God sort them out, to use a cliche'.

No but we could Level all the TV stations and Radio towers and their government buildings. 

Quoted from Herecomesyoursun, posted September 14, 2004, 10:46pm at here

^^Great plan, bomb the hell out of all their institutins and let them deal with it.  SSarah, can you even imagine someone doing that to us???  We would never recover fully. 

You're right, Japan never fully recovered either.

Quoted from Herecomesyoursun, posted September 14, 2004, 10:46pm at here

^^Great plan, bomb the hell out of all their institutins and let them deal with it.  SSarah, can you even imagine someone doing that to us???  We would never recover fully. 

SSarah I'll say it again.  Destroying the things that make up their society and letting them rebuild themselves would be total chaos.  I dont believe we should have gone in in the first place, and we sure as hell needed UN support to do it, and thats why its effed up now.

Oh sorry SSarah didnt see that last response.  And Japan and Iraq are very different.  Japan was not divided and full of chaotic insurgencies after its attack.

Quoted from Ssarah, posted September 14, 2004, 10:54pm at here

No but we could Level all the TV stations and Radio towers and their government buildings. 

What pupose would this serve? Since we have control over their radio and tv stations and we are presently the government there now. Remember al jeezqueera news does not originate from Iraq, but from Saudi Arabia also where the majority of the 9-11 hijackers were from and where bush sr. has his oil interests in, and lastly where the money to fund al queerda was linked coming from the royal family.

its a viciuos cycle aint it ric?



Bush must go

Also dont forget that everything we blow up, we are also paying to rebuild and when I say "we", I mean us the taxpayers. remember "w" promising that we were not going to be nation builders? How many billions is now "Dubya"?

Quoted from Herecomesyoursun, posted September 14, 2004, 11:06pm at here

its a viciuos cycle aint it ric?



Bush must go

AMEN!!! "Sun" AMEN!!!

You can't just leave them alone.... Or someone worse will come to power.  And the purpose of bombing the stations is so that we could get the hell out of there.  You can't ignore something and expect it to go away.