Just thought he should have his thread in 5th Beatles.

At The Beatles exhibition in Liverpool they show the letter Brian wrote just before his death. It was like a resignation letter. Very sad to read as it goes.

Heres a pic I got of it.

Cool! I vaguely remember something like that 9 years ago unless they recently put in the exhibit.

An article from The Guardian of August 28th, 1967

The Beatles' Diaghilev dies at 32

Stanley Reynolds
Monday August 28, 1967
The Guardian

Mr Brian Epstein, who built up the Beatles, Cilla Black, and others to international fame, was found dead in bed in his home in Belgravia, London, yesterday. He was 32.

Police were called by the housekeeper. A friend of Mr Epstein said: "He has been unwell for some months."

The Beatles were in Bangor where they were initiated into the cult of the Himalayan mystic, Maharishi Mahesh Yogi. Paul McCartney and his friend Jane Asher, the actress, left for London after hearing the news. Mr McCartney, looking pale and distressed, said: "It is a great shock and I am upset."

John Lennon said: "The Maharishi told us not to be too overwhelmed by grief. I have lost only a few people who were very close to me. This is one of those occasions, but I feel my course of meditation here has helped me overcome my grief more easily than before."

Brian Epstein was considered as the Svengali who, by magic, created the Beatles and the resulting beat music boom. But he always denied [this] and their long-running success has proved him right. He was far more the Diaghilev of pop music than a Svengali.

Indeed, his personal tastes were for the exotic, artistic, and classical. He loved classical music and enjoyed talking about it, which he could do in some depth. He was shy and sensitive.

The sensitive side of his nature was, perhaps, the source of his melancholy. At times he seemed like a character enmeshed in an elaborate ironic Nabokovian plot: the modern artist-business man beset by the thoroughly old-fashioned vulgarities of the Philistine.

Born in 1935, Epstein had a conventional middle-class Jewish background. At 16 he started in his father's furniture shop, and broke this off for a time to study at the Royal Academy of Dramatic Art, but became very successful in it as the manager of the family business record department.

In October, 1961. Customers, he said, kept asking for a record called "Mr Bonnie," which the Beatles had recorded in Germany for an obscure company. The Beatles were appearing at the Cavern Club, just round the corner from his shop. The rest of this story is well known.

Less well known or appreciated are Epstein's attempts to broaden his own scope as an impresario. In 1965 he bought the Saville Theatre. Unfortunately, he lost money with many of his productions there, particularly James Baldwin's play "The Amen Corner."

All this added to his melancholy; he suffered from poor health, and the death of his father, with whom he was extremely close, was another blow.

I have a question about Brian. In Shout! i read that his "ex-lover broke the $3000 silence bond". But that will mean that everyone will know that the exlover was also homosexual and that was still illegal in Britain. So why would he do that? Just for the money? Also, what happened to someone who was homosexual then?

Quoted from Kaleidoscope_Eyes

Also, what happened to someone who was homosexual then?

They burned in hell.
No really - I'll think you'll find that being homosexual wasn't illegal, but comitting a homosexual act (sodomy, listening to Barbara Streisand) was.
It's like drug laws now - Pete Doherty can't be busted for saying he takes drugs, police need to catch him in the act.

Pete Doherty should be arrested for being Pete Doherty.

A new 'Doherty Court Act' should be created.

All in favour - "Hear, hear!" ...

Cheers for the Photo App - Can anyone find a blow up version of the resignation letter(?)

On another note - how impressive is the level of journalism in regards to the Guardian article!

Pete Doherty is a Freak!!!!!!!!!!!!!     Back to topic, for once. Brian, whatever he was, was Smart enough to listen to the kids about the Beatles and ask for that record.

Quoted from Revolution

Brian, whatever he was, was Smart enough to listen to the kids about the Beatles and ask for that record.

I agree, if it wasn't for him... I love the man!

Thank god Brian was at the cavern that day!!
Brian saw something in the fabs & gave them a chance!
(like the rutles - they had something,  "i think it was the trousers!")

Pete Doherty and Kate Moss are being turned into media martyrs. Why do the papers pick on them when everyone knows that showbusiness is run on celebrity sherbert? They're just scapegoats, loads of other high profile people do all sorts of things, the police know about it, they just don't do a thing about it unless the papes want to pick on them. Then they have to investigate due to public outcry. They have to be seen to be doing the 'right' thing.

I have mixed feelings towards Brian. He made The Beatles big, but maybe he also ruined them. He put them into suits because that would sell better towards the record companies and all that. Also he reduced their show to an almost meaningless half an hour. Just thirty minutes. I'm still amazed that people were happy with that, but maybe I should compare it to modern concerts. Brian turned their concerts into a routine instead of an inspiration. God knows what more could have come out of their talents if it had had the change to go wherever they wanted to go.

It's a strange situation. It many respects they seem like Elvis in that they handed their soles over to their manager. Yet they had the power to say "no more" in 1966. Why didn't they speak up earlier? Should Brian have seen it coming and done something about it? But maybe it's all just hindsight - the world was different then and Brian and the band were learning as they went along. There was no precedent for what they were doing.

Quoted from Bobber

[...] Also he reduced their show to an almost meaningless half an hour. Just thirty minutes. I'm still amazed that people were happy with that, but maybe I should compare it to modern concerts. Brian turned their concerts into a routine instead of an inspiration. [...]

My thoughts too   ... those people were happy with almost nothing but seeing them for a while   ... but I want to believe that that was done by Brian because of their sketchdule: radio, recording sessions and later they were touring through US and Europe and even went to Australia and Japan and somewhere else and starred in films ... by the way, how long their shows at The Cavern used to be by 1962? ...

As Kevin said: "There was no precedent for what they were doing"

Quoted from raxo

by the way, how long their shows at The Cavern used to be by 1962? ...

I think that was more than half an hour, even tho Mr Epstein was in charge then. The Star Club in December 1962 was probably one of the last venues to see them for a real full concert. Maybe early 1963 in some local places round Liverpool.

Quoted from Bobber

I think that was more than half an hour, even tho Mr Epstein was in charge then. The Star Club in December 1962 was probably one of the last venues to see them for a real full concert. Maybe early 1963 in some local places round Liverpool.

I'm sure that it was more than half an hour ... I think it could be about an hour or ... then a break? ... and finalley another show of about an hour ... I've got no clue but that was always what I'd imagined ...

About The Star Club, I think it was more or less the same: an hour or some more, a break (for a striptease number or something else ) and more after that ... maybe those famous 8 hours were counting the moment the began the evening till the moment the played their last song in the night or in the early morning!LOL) breaks included ... just a theory   ...

Quoted Text

John Lennon said: "The Maharishi told us not to be too overwhelmed by grief. I have lost only a few people who were very close to me."

Ugh, that got me in the heart. "Only a few people"-- yeah, like his mom. Talk about putting a positive spin on it...

Back on topic. I don't know the length of the Star Club shows specifically, but most of the earlier Hamburg shows described the band as doing 45 minutes on, then a 15-minute break. Of course, the band was badgered to keep playing and shorten their break!

About Brian's shows being so short, from what I read, it was what "professional" groups did on their tours. A tour meant several acts going around the country, and each group did 10 or 15 minutes depending on their status, until the headliner who did--whoa! 30 whole minutes! Or even 35! Bonanza!

So Brian just took that formula to make the Beatles look like all the other professional groups. They still did long shows for ballrooms etc. that they had previously booked, but this was considered a step down from playing theatres. It was the convention of the time, strange and disappointing as it now seems to us. We want our favorite artists to play for 2 hours at least! How cool that could have been. I bet all the girls would have stopped screaming, if only from exhaustion, during a long show, and then they could have heard some banter as well. What a loss for everyone!

The mistake was to think that they were not important enough on their own to make a big show by themselves with maybe another two or three acts ... so they would be able to play for an hour or so too as they surely did in The cavern or The Star Club or ballrooms ...

... did they think that poeple woldn't have paid to see them and that they needed more acts or it was because of how much that tours would have costed?

I think the promoters (and Brian) wre just trying to make as much money as possible with the minimum effort. If kids were prepared to part with their cash for a twenty minute show then that was good business. Quality just wasn't an issue.
I would have hoped that The Beatles themselves would have pushed for a better arrangement, but it doesn't seem to have bothered them. They seem to have been caught up in the circus like everyone else. the whole Beatlemania thing seems to have a momentum that no one was prepared (or able) to change. But their defense was that no one was listening anyway.
Sad that such a great live act should have been reduced to what seems a shameless self-parody (not their fault though.)
Beatlemania was a beast.

8 HOUR SHOWS IN HAMBURG down to 30-mins shoes by 66. Crazy!!!!

what about his king features fiasco???face it the man was only in it for the money...

beatles dates has times and venues...its a red book...

Quoted from Andy Smith

8 HOUR SHOWS IN HAMBURG down to 30-mins shoes by 66. Crazy!!!!

I think Haiheads comments are bang on. The Stones were doing only 30 minute sets in 66 also.
I wonder who broke the mould?

Help for Bobber counting hours:

According to the new Elizabeth Partridge book about John Lennon, the Beatles played "over 500 hours" after their first trip to Hamburg.  Also according to her, the Beatles were initially hired to play 4 hours during the week and 6 hours during the weekends.  However, I have a feeling that the Hamburg sessions in particular could go much longer, depending on who was wanting them to play.  So this is a pretty loose estimate to start with.

I think what we really need is a time machine so we can go back and check. *begins construction*

Quoted from Kevin

The Stones were doing only 30 minute sets in 66 also.
I wonder who broke the mould?

Good info on the Stones. I'd like to learn the answer to this question, too.

Quoted from harihead

[...]
I think what we really need is a time machine so we can go back and check. *begins construction*

"Is there , even now, a machine to count such numbers?" Derek Taylor

P.S. I hope Bobber had it!  

Quoted from harihead

[...]
Good info on the Stones. I'd like to learn the answer to this question, too.

Some of these: Jimi Hendrix, Cream, Led Zeppelin? ... I've got no clue but it had to be by late 60s ...

Quoted from harihead

Good info on the Stones. I'd like to learn the answer to this question, too.

I tried to find sets for The Who on google but can't. I imagine Dylan was doing longer - but he comes from a folk background so it's probably not a fair comparison.
The underground bands like Floyd and The Grateful dead were doing monster sessions, but they weren't tours as such so again no fair.
The Doors were doing only 8 song sets in '68 on their European Tour. (which suprised me)
Maybe it was a technolgy thing - as sound systems improved and lights and pyrotechnics came in bands felt more able to put on a show - and all that expense and effort meant bands felt obliged to play more. Or maybe it was the gradual influence of bands like Pink Floyd raising the publics expectations.

Another thought - the average age of people who attended those '66 Stones and Beatles concerts was very young. They were happy just to scream. By the 70's bands were playing to people in their twenties, not their teenies. No screaming, higher expectations....
Like most things in life there's probably no  one simple answer.

I think that one of the main reasons could be that by mid 60s there were many bands in the same tour and it was a matter of time sharing the stage   ... and that didn't happen (or not so much) by late 60s/early 70s when tours with less bands were more than a common thing and a less risky busyNess to finance (seeing the gold mine that it seemed when the biggest groups played in stadiums, more rich people wanted to get more money too   ... so more different tours were offered) ... then the bands could play more songs than only their hits and so ...

Quoted from harihead

Help for Bobber counting hours:

According to the new Elizabeth Partridge book about John Lennon, the Beatles played "over 500 hours" after their first trip to Hamburg.  Also according to her, the Beatles were initially hired to play 4 hours during the week and 6 hours during the weekends.  However, I have a feeling that the Hamburg sessions in particular could go much longer, depending on who was wanting them to play.  So this is a pretty loose estimate to start with.

In the words of Python, "they use to work up 4 hours a day a week & when they got home, Brian Epstein
used to thrash them to sleep with his belt.  
And you try to tell the young bands of today what the beatles did.. and they won't believe ya!!

We used to dream of being thrashed to sleep with a belt...  

They used to get up half an hour before they went to bed to play in Hamburg... No one believes that, either.

Quoted from raxo

I think that one of the main reasons could be that by mid 60s there were many bands in the same tour and it was a matter of time sharing the stage   ... and that didn't happen (or not so much) by late 60s/early 70s when tours with less bands were more than a common thing and a less risky busyNess to finance (seeing the gold mine that it seemed when the biggest groups played in stadiums, more rich people wanted to get more money too   ... so more different tours were offered) ... then the bands could play more songs than only their hits and so ...

there was always 2 or more on a tour..........usually 5 or 6......

What a fantastic collection of posters, PC31. Thanks!

GREAT STUFF PC31!!