Wait. How did Yoko earn it? Oh yeah. She married a Beatle. I'm gonna repost a Stern Show conversation from few years back because I think it explains her perfectly. She's done nothing but exploit his image and make millions off of being the widow Lennon. That's just my opinion.
Here's the conversation which is actually kinda funny:
Howard: So what’s in the news? Robin: Oh lot’s of things, lots of things. First of all you know that they’re doing a musical, a John Lennon musical? Did you hear anything about this? They’ve been working on it for a while and apparently, you know, you gotta deal with Yoko Ono… Howard: Ohhhh... (Robin laughs) Artie: That’s fun. Robin: …if you’re going to do something about John Lennon… Howard: (in mock Asian accent) I know, I know what John rikes. Artie: Oh that’s gotta be a nightmare. Robin: And in the paper today they’re saying you know obviously that it’s a flawed production and it’s having some problems and Yoko’s right in there with both hands… Howard: and feet. Robin: Up to her old tricks with last ditch efforts to save the seriously flawed bio musical about her late husband. Howard: All these plays on Broadway have the worst friggin’ music. How could you screw up John Lennon music? Artie: It’s Lennon man. Howard: You should be able to create some sort of interesting play. Artie: Something entertaining. Howard: Yeah. Artie: You know. They did it with Billy Joel! Howard: Yeah, that show’s still running! Artie: Right. Robin: She’s even driven the director away. So, you know, she’s trying to control everything. You know, these people who really have done Broadway, and know how to do Broadway, they’re trying to work on the thing… Howard: Right. Robin: …and Yoko’s… Howard: Well, she’s… Robin: …there trying to uh, turn all the screws. Howard: Don’t you think at some point she’d say to herself, you know I’ve never been a part of anything commercially successful, why would I think I could do this? Robin: Right. Howard: That doesn’t slow her down? Robin: Let me listen to the experts! Howard: Yeah, maybe there are people that know what’s going on and they can honor my husband in some way. Robin: This latest one only lasted two days! (laughing) What a nightmare she must be. Howard: She’s probably like (in mock accent again) I’m about peace and love! No you’re not. If you can’t get along with a bunch of theatrical people who are you know creatives. You’re not about peace and love. You’re a big pain in the a**. Artie: Marrying John Lennon. That was a commercial success. Howard: Oh my God. I would have married him. Artie: Good move. Robin: That’s the only success she’s made of her life. Howard: Mmm. That’s her best move yeah. Robin: Yeah. Artie: That’s a good one. Financially. (Laughs) Robin: So she’s still milking it. You know she’s holding on tooth and nail to that legacy. Howard: (mock accent) Beatles reader. Artie: laughing. Howard: Thank you.
You call that funny?? I don't, but then we're all entitled to our opinion. Let me have mine.
here's a sample of it :
like Linda McCartney, Yoko RECORDED music with her late husband. She was an abstract artist LONG BEFORE she even met John. Heather on the other hand was (and still is I suppose)an opportunistic goldigger who, by her own admission, wasn't much into the Beatles. Any mean-spirited criticism leveled at Yoko usually originates in racism OR the vast misconception that she was the one that ended the Beatles. The former cause is an abhorrence, while the latter is nothing more than a proven lie. Prejudice it seems has a long shelf life. Everyone loves to trash Yoko, but I'd love to see them do it if John were still alive--and to his face. I think it's a safe bet to say that gutless, phony wonders like H. S. and his ilk wouldn't.
*also : I never watch Howard Stern --it always has been a cesspool of corruption (case in point, the dialogue above posted from that aforementioned show. All haters in my opinion). My high regard for ALL the ex-Beatle wives (w/ the notable exception of Mills remains intact)I will not pursue this issue. It sickens the hell out of me.
I think you're simplifying things a bit. Yoko's art is definitely debatable and she really wasn't a name until she met and had a trist with Lennon. As for the recording, Lennon wanted to record with somebody. Anybody. He NEEDED to. He even admitted to that. That doesn't make Yoko talented. How many Yoko songs are considered classics? Same goes for Linda. The husbands just wanted to keep the wives close. An argument could be made for Heather stating that at least she had her own things going on and didn't try to make a name for herself by suddenly becoming a recording artist because she married one of the most famous musicians on the planet. I wouldn't say that, but some could. As for the "Any mean-spirited criticism leveled at Yoko usually originates in racism OR the vast misconception that she was the one that ended the Beatles." Again, that's a very simplistic view as to why you think people critisize Yoko. She's done plenty to deserve critisism. She's also done some great stuff too, but someone can start that thread if they want. I think she's exploited Lennon's image and continues to turn him into some sort of product. I think she has treated his family poorly and hasn't been very cooperative or giving to the other members of his former band. Until recently anyway. And I'm basing this on the actual people who have actually had to deal with these issues over the years. So those are some of my critisisms of her. Now to say I or anyone else critisize her because we think she broke up the band is just insulting. There were MANY factors that went into the break up and we're all intelligent enought ot know that. Give us some credit. As for the racism. If you're basing that on the Stern thing, well, yeah, he was being racist by mocking her accent, but that's not why I posted it. I think what they were discussing and the sentiment of the conversation conveys how people feel about her perfectly. Some of it may have not been politically correct, but we're all pretty much adults and should be able to deal with it. As for the Stern show itself. Most people who critisize it have never really heard it and any mean-spirited criticism leveled at Stern usually originates in blind hatred OR the vast misconception that he does nothing but lesbian dating. But to each his own.
BTW, I've heard much worse dialogue going on around here than in the above HS conversation. I've heard much worse racist comments too. It's called human nature and you can rise above it and understand that people sometimes have those kinds of thoughts. Plus, it's in part NY humor. Maybe not your thing.
When trawling through the archives of The Times I did find one reference to pre-John Yoko. It concerned some "happening" she was staging in 1966. The article seemed to treat the whole thing a bit tongue-in-cheek. I don't think you can call her art "debatable." It may not be to everyone's liking, but it seems she was well regarded in her field.
As for the recording, Lennon wanted to record with somebody. Anybody. He NEEDED to. He even admitted to that. That doesn't make Yoko talented. How many Yoko songs are considered classics? As for the "Any mean-spirited criticism leveled at Yoko usually originates in racism OR the vast misconception that she was the one that ended the Beatles." Again, that's a very simplistic view as to why you think people critisize Yoko. She's done plenty to deserve critisism.
Now to say I or anyone else critisize her because we think she broke up the band is just insulting. There were MANY factors that went into the break up and we're all intelligent enought ot know that. Plus, it's in part NY humor. Maybe not your thing.
you're gauge if someone is talented is how many "classics" they rack up ? Now who's being simplistic... ? Yoko's art can hardly be characterized in Western terms--keep in mind she comes from the Orient. She's an avant-garde artist, where deviance from convention is the norm. This was precisely the reason John was attracted to her in the first place (from many things I read over the years) John, as we all know, could be regarded as probably the most daring or unabashedly "rebellious" Beatle (I mean in terms of self-expression), and he's always had a streak of the iconoclast in him (which is one of the reasons I respected him so much). Naturally, he'd be drawn to a true "outside the box" thinker like Ono. The Beatles music has always been more accessible to the Occidental mind, but in addition to his love for "roots" r&r, John, being the complex soul that he was, also was driven to social reform..which means he sometimes had to fight the intractable status quo--the stock and trade of non-conformist artists since time immemorial. Unlike the other three Beatles, John lived comfortably in two worlds, the world of mainstream pop (which The Fab revolutionized), and the strange, abstract world of post-modern expressionism. Paul, I must give credit, made a few tenuous sojourns into these "outer regions", but in the end, he was still a glorified song and dance man (which in no way I am demeaning, he's brilliant) What John "needed" was not only a wife, but a kindred and starry-eyed utopian like himself.. To imply that Yoko is some kind of opportunist is, I feel, very wrong. Yes, it's true that she could be very demanding (and even unreasonable, earning her the unenviable appelation of "The DragonLady"--another obvious an unwarranted swipe at her far-Eastern heritage). What was so wrong with being merely pro-active in trying to protect John's estate and legacy by ANY means at her disposal ? it seems to me there's a simple reason why she did this...she loved him. She was his wife and artistic soul mate. I don't defend her because I understand all her art--I certainly do not (in fact, some of it defies analysis), but she nonetheless has the right to express it. Musically, her voice is virtually UNLISTENABLE--(I agree w/ most ppl on that point), but many of her graphic and conceptual art I find pleasing and thought-provoking. She's always been a highly intelligent and talented woman, but grasping her work can be challenging (but isnt that what great art requires? THOUGHT? ) It's an acquired taste. John knew this from the start. If you think I take a "simplistic" view on why I think ppl criticize Yoko, it's because the comments I've always heard about her were based on ethnic bigotry and NOT on her supposed "actions" regarding the his estate or art. Your Howard Stern excerpt is a glaring case in point. Mocking her accent? Intelligent criticism? I think not. As far as not getting NY humor...I beg to differ w/ you, I'm from NY myself and Woody Allen is my fave comedian. Trust me, Stern is no Allen. This difference is Woody would'nt engage in that type of sordid ethnic mockery for a cheap laugh. He's better than that. Same can't be said of Howard, can it ? If I recall correctly, didn't he even make fun of one of his erstwhile "side-kicks" "Stuttering John"? Typical. Nothing sacred to that crew, not even handicaps. Give me Woody any day, at least there you can find INTELLECT and self-effacing satire. With Stern all you get is scatology. Making fun of Yoko Ono isn't funny, considering the fact that the woman lost her husband--someone we all loved dearly--so tragically...but then, I guess I'm outta line, aren't I ? *rolls eyes* It's better we just agree to disagree. I'm not gonna do a "Rodney King" number on you, but I'd rather not fight w/ppl in here. I grew up w/ The Beatles and the one piece of philosophy I gleaned from them after all these years was "do more lovin', less hatin'". I don't hate Mills, I disrespect her. Yoko is another story, IMO.
As to your other comment that I was somehow implying that people IN HERE subscribed to idea that Yoko broke up the band, you're WRONG, I was speaking in terms of the LARGER SOCIETY in which huge segments still blame Yoko for the unthinkable. I've been VERY IMPRESSED w/ the ppl at this site(at least most of them) and their overwhelming detailed knowledge of the Beatles is nothing short of inspiring. For a Fab freak like myself, it's like a second home. I was only defending Yoko on basic principles. Not how many "classics" she had or didn't have. I just think Mills had ulterior motives. Even her own father substantiated this. Yoko is just a creative being who happened by chance to find "the other half of her soul" when John casually strolled into that gallery one day long ago in London. More power to her I say. As for Linda, Olivia and Barbara, the same respect and affection is extended.
In short, I try to be understanding towards Yoko because John obviously saw admirable things in her...so, as a sign of respect for him, I give her the benefit of the doubt. I don't find that such a hard thing to do.
It's one way I honor the memory of Lennon himself.
When trawling through the archives of The Times I did find one reference to pre-John Yoko. It concerned some "happening" she was staging in 1966. The article seemed to treat the whole thing a bit tongue-in-cheek. I don't think you can call her art "debatable." It may not be to everyone's liking, but it seems she was well regarded in her field.
All art is debatable. Art is subjective and not everyone agrees on what makes great art. To this day people still debate about Andy Warhol's Campbell's Soup cans as being art. Some get it and some don't, but it's still debatable. Needless to say, I think Yoko's “art” is just as debatable. If not more so. Is the happening you're speaking of the one where she has her clothes cut off? You don't find that debatable? And if the article was tongue and cheek then were they taking her seriously? Where's the proof that she was well regarded among her community? George Harrison would even warn John about her reputation in the NY artist's community and to watch out for her. I mean, there are many opinions of her and her art therefore I find it very debatable.
you're gauge if someone is talented is how many "classics" they rack up ? Now who's being simplistic... ? Yoko's art can hardly be characterized in Western terms--keep in mind she comes from the Orient. She's an avant-garde artist, where deviance from convention is the norm. This was precisely the reason John was attracted to her in the first place (from many things I read over the years) John, as we all know, could be regarded as probably the most daring or unabashedly "rebellious" Beatle (I mean in terms of self-expression), and he's always had a streak of the iconoclast in him (which is one of the reasons I respected him so much). Naturally, he'd be drawn to a true "outside the box" thinker like Ono. The Beatles music has always been more accessible to the Occidental mind, but in addition to his love for "roots" r&r, John, being the complex soul that he was, also was driven to social reform..which means he sometimes had to fight the intractable status quo--the stock and trade of non-conformist artists since time immemorial. Unlike the other three Beatles, John lived comfortably in two worlds, the world of mainstream pop (which The Fab revolutionized), and the strange, abstract world of post-modern expressionism. Paul, I must give credit, made a few tenuous sojourns into these "outer regions", but in the end, he was still a glorified song and dance man (which in no way I am demeaning, he's brilliant) What John "needed" was not only a wife, but a kindred and starry-eyed utopian like himself.. To imply that Yoko is some kind of opportunist is, I feel, very wrong. Yes, it's true that she could be very demanding (and even unreasonable, earning her the unenviable appelation of "The DragonLady"--another obvious an unwarranted swipe at her far-Eastern heritage). What was so wrong with being merely pro-active in trying to protect John's estate and legacy by ANY means at her disposal ? it seems to me there's a simple reason why she did this...she loved him. She was his wife and artistic soul mate. I don't defend her because I understand all her art--I certainly do not (in fact, some of it defies analysis), but she nonetheless has the right to express it. Musically, her voice is virtually UNLISTENABLE--(I agree w/ most ppl on that point), but many of her graphic and conceptual art I find pleasing and thought-provoking. She's always been a highly intelligent and talented woman, but grasping her work can be challenging (but isnt that what great art requires? THOUGHT? ) It's an acquired taste. John knew this from the start. If you think I take a "simplistic" view on why I think ppl criticize Yoko, it's because the comments I've always heard about her were based on ethnic bigotry and NOT on her supposed "actions" regarding the his estate or art. Your Howard Stern excerpt is a glaring case in point. Mocking her accent? Intelligent criticism? I think not. As far as not getting NY humor...I beg to differ w/ you, I'm from NY myself and Woody Allen is my fave comedian. Trust me, Stern is no Allen. This difference is Woody would'nt engage in that type of sordid ethnic mockery for a cheap laugh. He's better than that. Same can't be said of Howard, can it ? If I recall correctly, didn't he even make fun of one of his erstwhile "side-kicks" "Stuttering John"? Typical. Nothing sacred to that crew, not even handicaps. Give me Woody any day, at least there you can find INTELLECT and self-effacing satire. With Stern all you get is scatology. Making fun of Yoko Ono isn't funny, considering the fact that the woman lost her husband--someone we all loved dearly--so tragically...but then, I guess I'm outta line, aren't I ? *rolls eyes* It's better we just agree to disagree. I'm not gonna do a "Rodney King" number on you, but I'd rather not fight w/ppl in here. I grew up w/ The Beatles and the one piece of philosophy I gleaned from them after all these years was "do more lovin', less hatin'". I don't hate Mills, I disrespect her. Yoko is another story, IMO.
As to your other comment that I was somehow implying that people IN HERE subscribed to idea that Yoko broke up the band, you're WRONG, I was speaking in terms of the LARGER SOCIETY in which huge segments still blame Yoko for the unthinkable. I've been VERY IMPRESSED w/ the ppl at this site(at least most of them) and their overwhelming detailed knowledge of the Beatles is nothing short of inspiring. For a Fab freak like myself, it's like a second home. I was only defending Yoko on basic principles. Not how many "classics" she had or didn't have. I just think Mills had ulterior motives. Even her own father substantiated this. Yoko is just a creative being who happened by chance to find "the other half of her soul" when John casually strolled into that gallery one day long ago in London. More power to her I say. As for Linda, Olivia and Barbara, the same respect and affection is extended.
In short, I try to be understanding towards Yoko because John obviously saw admirable things in her...so, as a sign of respect for him, I give her the benefit of the doubt. I don't find that such a hard thing to do.
It's one way I honor the memory of Lennon himself.
Okay, I didn't mean to get you so angry or anything. You use the word fight. I was just trying to discuss. I mean, this is a discussion board, so I was discussing. You have to understand that on a Beatles board Yoko and her involvement with John IS going to come up from time to time AND we're not all going to agree. To calls somebody racist or imply that they're bashing her because of the break up is really just unfair and not very nice. People have many opinions on her mainly because of her behavior over the years. If it were just because of the break up, it would already have been forgotten. But she keeps herself in the news, she keeps herself attached to John and the Beatles in such a way that she is still a topic of discussion among Beatles fans.
BTW, next month she's unveiling an Imagine Peace Tower that she says she and John discussed in 1965. It's an interesting story if anyone wants to google it.
As for the NY humor. Woody Allen is not the be all end all of the kind of humor that comes out of NY. Mainly I'm speaking of the NYC area. And if morals are an issue for you, than again, I wouldn't really reference Woody Allen. But then what he did and whether it was wrong or right is also debatable I guess. Also, you've never heard Woody do ethnic humor?? I must be thinking of a different Woody Allen. Have you seen What's Up, Tiger Lily? Anyway, to describe what I mean about NY humor is difficult because it won 't come off right. I'm not talking about the pseudo intellectual stuff, I'm talking about the everyday sarcastic, somewhat negative in tone and sometimes ethnic humor that comes from the culture and uniqueness of that city. A lot of people find New Yorkers rude, but that isn't true. It's because they're not used to the way they speak to each other. Same goes with certain forms of humor. So some people may get offended because they don't understand it.
Anyway, I don't expect you to like Howard Stern as most people automatically don't. Even though most have only heard very, very small bits of his show and misuderstand how and why he uses ethnicity and disabilities in his humor. But whatever. I didn't post the thing to recruit Stern fans. I posted it as an example as to the general publics feelings of Yoko. And I'm sorry, but it's a fact that she is not all that beloved. I hear Yoko jokes on sitcoms, in movies, on talk shows and so on. It's sad, but it's sort of become her legacy. Now I think that in SOME part she's responsible for some of it. Not all of course because she was unfairly judged from the beginning, but then she really never did anything to disprove people's misconceptions of her and as I've said before I think she exploits her dead husbands image and I think she treats certain people in his life horribly. I don't have much respect for her just as you don't have any of Heather. Although I do feel for Yoko and when I see her in interviews I think she comes off very intelligent and sympathetic. So I'm not bashing her, I'm stating my opinion of her on facts that I have read or heard. If we cannot discuss our opinions on a forum, then I don't know what else we're supposed to do. I think those who have something positive to say about Yoko should start a positive Yoko thread. I wouldn't mind reading about the good things she's done. Maybe I'd develop a different attitude towards her.
I'll leave you with a Wood Allen joke and then I'm done because really we each have our own opinions and that sould be that. If I angered you or offended you in anyway, I apologize. I just thought this was a place to share opinions is all.
Woody: "Did you hear about the Polish carpool? They meet every day at work."
All art is debatable. Art is subjective and not everyone agrees on what makes great art. To this day people still debate about Andy Warhol's Campbell's Soup cans as being art.
Funnily enough I was going to use that very arguement against you!
Home
Calendar
Search
Register
Login
Sandra
Female
Male
Logged
