1965 seems to be the invasion of riff-based songs - Daytripper, Satisfaction, Mr Soul (oops - can't think of anymore, but you get my drift.) Then a few years later and they're gone for the rest of the decade. Who started this and where did it come from? And why such a short life (or are there only so many riffs out there)
I thought about Honky Tonk Woman when I wrote that, but couldn't decide if it was a riff song without hearing it again. I know the riff kicks the song off, but does it carry through the whole song, as opposed to having a melody based on it (if that makes sense) I'm trying to play it in my head but it ain't working. Don't know about the Dylan song though. It's not a riff in the classic sense is it (ie a repeating chain of notes) Again I'll have to listen to it.
Chuck Berry had unique riffs for most of his songs. Elmore James had the "wa-wa-wa-wa-wa" slide riff. The Chess blues factory had alot of songs with riffs--from Smokestack Lightning to Spoonful.
You could even go back to the bluesmen who played riffs or fills between verses--Charley Patton to Robert Johnson.
The "riff" seems to be an African-American blues-based structure--a simple musical phrase used to punctuate verses or act as a kind of call-and-response to the vocal. It's usually antiphonal in the sense that it does not merely replicate the melody line but "responds" to it.
While instrumental songs such as Rebel Rouser or Raunchy might incorporate simple melody lines or "riffs"; I think a true "riff" is a usually part of a larger song structure and usually implies interaction whether between musician and musician or musician and vocalist.
In Jazz parlance a "riff" is a simple musical formula, usually improvised upon, or returned to periodically during improvisation. Riffs are born of improvisation, but if overused, become stale or trite. Thus the "shave-and-hair-cut-two-bits" riff (at one time commonly used to end songs) has become hopelessly cliche.
I believe John stole the "Day Tripper" riff from Bobby Parker's "Watch Your Step" and Paul "lifted" the Lady Madonna riff from Johnnie Parker's "Bad Penny Blues" (produced in 1956 by George Martin).
Luckily for the Beatles you cannot copyright a riff.
Chuck Berry had unique riffs for most of his songs. Elmore James had the "wa-wa-wa-wa-wa" slide riff. The Chess blues factory had alot of songs with riffs--from Smokestack Lightning to Spoonful.
You could even go back to the bluesmen who played riffs or fills between verses--Charley Patton to Robert Johnson.
The "riff" seems to be an African-American blues-based structure--a simple musical phrase used to punctuate verses or act as a kind of call-and-response to the vocal. It's usually antiphonal in the sense that it does not merely replicate the melody line but "responds" to it.
While instrumental songs such as Rebel Rouser or Raunchy might incorporate simple melody lines or "riffs"; I think a true "riff" is a usually part of a larger song structure and usually implies interaction whether between musician and musician or musician and vocalist.
In Jazz parlance a "riff" is a simple musical formula, usually improvised upon, or returned to periodically during improvisation. Riffs are born of improvisation, but if overused, become stale or trite. Thus the "shave-and-hair-cut-two-bits" riff (at one time commonly used to end songs) has become hopelessly cliche.
I believe John stole the "Day Tripper" riff from Bobby Parker's "Watch Your Step" and Paul "lifted" the Lady Madonna riff from Johnnie Parker's "Bad Penny Blues" (produced in 1956 by George Martin).
Luckily for the Beatles you cannot copyright a riff.
Thanks for the clinical breakdown of what a "riff" is, otherwise nobody would have a clue. Good frickin' Lord. How about Gregorian Chants or Canticles? Luckily for any Bluesmen/Women, they can't be sued for any infractions of a simple musical formula, usually improvised upon, or returned to periodically during improvisation.
Who started this and where did it come from? And why such a short life (or are there only so many riffs out there)
Bobber's right ... riff songs are and will be always hits ... after all, The Rolling Stones have been producing riff songs now and then without stopping -some were, and are, even hits-.
Nowadays riffs are more used than ever ... I think that I can hear a riff in almost all discotheque music (sorry but so are my ears )
Plainsong Babblespeak? What are your intellectual leanings about the Aeolian cadences in 'Not A Second Time' like Mann pointed out? How about your favorite songs with a hemi-demi-semi-quaver nuance? I felt like I should have been wearing a lab coat and be in a sterile room reading that post.
Plainsong Babblespeak? What are your intellectual leanings about the Aeolian cadences in 'Not A Second Time' like Mann pointed out? How about your favorite songs with a hemi-demi-semi-quaver nuance? I felt like I should have been wearing a lab coat and be in a sterile room reading that post.
JR, I love your Chicago bluntness. And I like the lab coat image.
I was kidding about plainsong.
Anyway, I did read Mann's article. It's a little pedantic (and sad to say, I can't imagine anyone writing about pop music--or even classical--in a newspaper like this today; sometimes Alex Ross in the New Yorker will do a little of this).
But I do think it's cool that a classical music critic of the early 60s Britain was able to see the revolutionary nature of the Beatles songwriting (which came to them "naturally" rather than via some over-intellectualized music theory).
Despite his "aeolian cadences" and "chains of pandiationic clusters," Mann does a decent job of explaining why the Beatles' songs sounded so different from the competition. Unlike most blues-based and country-based rock, the Beatles were throwing in chords that didn't fit in the I-IV-V structure. Thus, the C to Aflat at the end of "Not a Second Time"--the song not resolving in the fadeout, but maintaining a tension that is unreleased.
Those girls might not have known why they were screaming, but those melodies, harmonies and chord changes had something to do with it. Otherwise the Beatles would be no different from the boy bands.
And now if you'll excuse me, I've got to get back to my laboratory.
I was more intrigued as to why they suddenly became popular in 1965/66. Or were the charts habitated by riff songs I've not heard? I Feel fine, Daytripper, Last Time and Satisfaction all seem to show they were a fad in the charts for that brief period. Was I Feel Fine a trend setter? (My early Beatles knowledge is meagre, but I can't recall them writing or covering any others (and I'm not talking about songs with riffs in them, but songs powered by a guitar riff). Or were they already popular on the pop/rock scene? so many questions.
Ricky Nelson had alot of riff songs in the early 60s (and a great guitarist in James Burton, who also played on some of E's early sixties songs like "Little Sister," one of the greatest riffs of all time).
The Everly Brothers had none other than Chet Atkins producing and playing guitar riffs on their songs.
The Beach Boys incorporated nifty riffs into early songs such as "I Get Around" etc.
The bottom line is that Decca passed on the Beatles since they thought guitar groups were going out of style.
Little did they know how wrong they were.
Another thought: when you listen to some of the early live recordings you realize how integral George was to the show. His riffs or fills get some of the biggest cheers in the songs. I think the Beatles for the most part didn't think of a song as "finished" until it had some kind of guitar "part" or "riff" to anchor it.
I think the Beatles definitely popularized the use of riffs in white popular music. And the Invasion groups that followed--Stones, Kinks, Who, Animals--all had strong guitar parts.
Things might have been totally different if the Beatles had been a piano band (imagine Paul and John at duelling baby grands!) Scary! Although "Hey Bulldog" shows their proficiency in creating great piano riffs.
And, Mr. Professor, don't forget that people like Glenn Campbell played a big part of the Beach Boys music as a backup musician, as did Jimmy Page with the Kinks and even Tom Jones.
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DM's Beatles forums › Other music forums › Various Artists, Lyrics, Discographies, URLs › Who started riff songs?